Well, what law... .specifically states you can't invade a country based on lies??
Moral law. Moral law is a system of guidelines for behavior. These guidelines may or may not be part of a religion, codified in written form, or legally enforceable. For some people moral law is synonymous with the commands of a divine being. For others, moral law is a set of universal rules that should apply to everyone.
Moral law. Moral law is a system of guidelines for behavior. These guidelines may or may not be part of a religion, codified in written form, or legally enforceable. For some people moral law is synonymous with the commands of a divine being. For others, moral law is a set of universal rules that should apply to everyone.
key words... not legally enforceable and I'd like to add not universially agreed upon.
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this is like trying to debate with 9 year olds. there is no law, thanks for the rhetorical question.
congress voted authorizing the war as well as the UN security counsel.
Well I'm quite sure there are other forums more suited to your superior intellect if it proves too far beneath you here.
I can only hope that at some point the American people will conduct a review and find what most of us believe to be true and that is that your congress may have voted but that the war is wrong and those people that made it happen are guilty of crimes against humanity. And should be held accountable for their actions just like any other nation that perpertrates these wrongs against another.
And on that note this 9 year old with her inferior intellect is off to bed.
Well I'm quite sure there are other forums more suited to your superior intellect if it proves too far beneath you here.
I can only hope that at some point the American people will conduct a review and find what most of us believe to be true and that is that your congress may have voted but that the war is wrong and those people that made it happen are guilty of crimes against humanity. And should be held accountable for their actions just like any other nation that perpertrates these wrongs against another.
And on that note this 9 year old with her inferior intellect is off to bed.
Jeanie, you know I hold you on the same level as me. but the point is, trying to say this war is "illegal" is just dumb. immoral ? wrong ? bad mistake? yes.
this is like trying to debate with 9 year olds. there is no law, thanks for the rhetorical question.
congress voted authorizing the war as well as the UN security counsel.
Are you sure about the un part? I was under the impression that France and Russia threatened to vetoe the decision and thus the US stopped asking support from the un. Hence the illegal part, if you consider the un has a say in what is legal and illegal in international laws. Your country does not as it doesn't recognize the power of international courts. So from a us point of view the war is not illegal, from a european point of view that war is.
Are you sure about the un part? I was under the impression that France and Russia threatened to vetoe the decision and thus the US stopped asking support from the un. Hence the illegal part, if you consider the un has a say in what is legal and illegal in international laws. Your country does not as it doesn't recognize the power of international courts. So from a us point of view the war is not illegal, from a european point of view that war is.
i'm not fan of the Iraq war. but all this illegal talk is childish, as is this thread. no one was arrested for protesting.
i'm not fan of the Iraq war. but all this illegal talk is childish, as is this thread. no one was arrested for protesting.
I understand your point, I'm just saying that for countries recognizing the UN as the source of international law the war in Iraq is illegal. The US by refusing to support international courts of law do not recognize the illegality of the war. Its simple matter of where you stand vis à vis of the UN. And it's not even that important, the important part is that people everywhere feel this is an immoral war which, to this day, has done more wrong than right.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
before any more 9 year old childish remarks get thrown about, let me explain that the question posed is correct. The pre-emptive Invasion of Iraq was not, and is not currently illegal under any jurisdiction, at least not yet. The crime of "Aggression" has been accepted as illegal by the ICC, but it is unenforcable until a clear definiton has been adopted by the ICC. last i heard the plan was for this to take place in 08' or 09'? The ICC was actually signed onto by President Clinton, but it was not a full ratification. President Bush completely withdrew from the ICC in the early years of his term. I have heard a few democratic presidential hopefuls state they would fully raitify the ICC and become bound by its laws (thank god). So unfortunately the aggresive invasion of Iraq is not illegal, currently. The only reason it is not is because a definition has not been set by the ICC. Too little too late in this case. Now come 2009 it may be a different story. And i also do not believe it is illegal in the U.S. for the president to lie to the american public to garner support for a war. As far as the UN goes, i do not believe their judicial branch (ICJ) has adopted a crime of aggression either. The UN itself can pass and enforce sanctions, but it cannot press legal charges.
Unfortuntaley as of right now, under international law, war crimes can only take place AFTER the initial act of aggression. And some of the actions of the Bush Administration have been illegal, such as torture. I also believe some domestic issues are illegal as well, such as wiretapping.
to sum it up, the ICC has accepted the "crime of aggression" as illegal, but it cannot be enforced until a definition is set. The UN cannot press charges, and their judicial branch has not adopted a "crime of aggression". Some US actions have violated the geneva conventions. And in the greatest country in the world the president can legally lie to the public and invade a country.
"The masters tools will never bring down the masters house" a~d
and for the record, a 9 year old understands that unilaterally and pre emptively invading a nation based on lies should be illegal, and it will be illegal.
so for the record, and the future, when i speak of this illegal war i mean it. it may not be by our law, it may not be by international law (yet), but is should be, and i will never change my mind. it should be illegal, because it is illegal. if blocking a street is illegal and punishable by arrest, then this war and crime of aggresion certainly should be. anyone that argues different is not "childish", they are simply a fool.
The pre-emptive Invasion of Iraq was not, and is not currently illegal under any jurisdiction, at least not yet. So unfortunately the aggresive invasion of Iraq is not illegal
my2hands I'm totally with you, as are many, many people, and I really admire your determination because you are arguing against a brick wall.
People you debate with simply do not have the capability to think outside the pack and do whats right.
They understand that what is happening is not morally correct, you cant show them this because they know, but its not important to them.
What is important to them is proving some sort of intellectual superiority over others because they can read what others say and repeat, or because they were born in a country that happens to be powerful at this time. Its like a computer game for them, they sit at home, they give nothing, and they take an abstract feeling of superiority. They will argue blue the packs bullshit because they love the this feeling.
I hope you realise I'm not having a go at you or trying to preach to you, because you are WAY smarter than I.
A war that they have to fight in is the only thing that can wipe the smug grins from they're sickeningly self-satisfied faces, and neither you or I are ready to start that war yet.
they were completely crippled because of UN sanctions, they were a sitting duck, if i knew that then he knew that
he was given false intelligence
i dont know what to say to someone that still believes this shit :rolleyes: ... it is called plausible deniability... anyway the CIA told him the WMD story was bullshit... the bush administration was itching to invade iraq since day 1, and that is well documented
and probably made some of his decisions out of anger and 9/11.
still morphing 9/11 and iraq? please, you have to be fucking kidding. as far as anger, the official justification for the invasion was al queda ties (lies) and WMD (lies)... and if it was based on anger he needs to be removed today from office... and again the administration was looking to invade iraq since day one of his presidency, and this is well documented
you keep using this word....lies...get over it
no i will not get over it. my country fucking invaded another country for no reason. all based on lies. your president lied to you, it is reality. perhaps you should get over it and realize when your being used and lied to. the president is not some almighty fucking being. he is a liar, and a murderer. and if he is not a liar then where is the 9/11 connection? and where is the WMD?
they were completely crippled because of UN sanctions, they were a sitting duck, if i knew that then he knew that i dont know what to say to someone that still believes this shit :rolleyes: ... it is called plausible deniability... anyway the CIA told him the WMD story was bullshit... the bush administration was itching to invade iraq since day 1, and that is well documented still morphing 9/11 and iraq? please, you have to be fucking kidding. the official justification for the invasion was al queda ties (lies) and WMD (lies).. and again the administration was looking to invade iraq since day one of his presidency, and this is well documented
no i will not get over it. my country fucking invaded another country for no reason. all based on lies. your president lied to you, it is reality. perhaps you should get over it and realize when your being used and lied to. the president is not some almighty fucking being. he is a liar, and a murderer. and if he is not a liar then where is the 9/11 connection? and where is the WMD?
im not defending bush. i'm just stating what happened.
im not defending bush. i'm just stating what happened.
no, you are stating bullshit history. that is not what happened. you think he was given "false intelligence", or invaded out of "anger", or because of "9/11", or they were a "threat"... i say his office was the one looking for the false evidence to showcase, they got what they wanted and ran with it knowing it was bullshit
no, you are stating bullshit history. that is not what happened. you think he was given "false intelligence", or invaded out of "anger", or because of "9/11", or they were a "threat"... i say his office was the one looking for the false evidence to showcase, they got what they wanted and ran with it knowing it was bullshit
i have a bridge for sale if your interested
i'm not going to say im right and your wrong. we may never know the exact proven truth
the white house isnt the only one who believes that. nice try.
"there is a sucker born evey minute" ~~ PT Barnum
unfortunately some people still believe it, a VERY small minority. this same group probably also believes noah built a boat with 2 of every animal :rolleyes:
some people believe in the tooth fairy, that sure doesnt make it real
bush saw Iraq as a threat. he was given false intelligence and probably made some of his decisions out of anger and 9/11.
you keep using this word....lies...get over it
Do you really believe the rubbish that you just wrote, it's all lies.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Comments
#1 is true
#2 is your opinion.
which part of #2 is opinion
Well, what law... .specifically states you can't invade a country based on lies??
Moral law. Moral law is a system of guidelines for behavior. These guidelines may or may not be part of a religion, codified in written form, or legally enforceable. For some people moral law is synonymous with the commands of a divine being. For others, moral law is a set of universal rules that should apply to everyone.
key words... not legally enforceable and I'd like to add not universially agreed upon.
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
this is like trying to debate with 9 year olds. there is no law, thanks for the rhetorical question.
congress voted authorizing the war as well as the UN security counsel.
Well I'm quite sure there are other forums more suited to your superior intellect if it proves too far beneath you here.
I can only hope that at some point the American people will conduct a review and find what most of us believe to be true and that is that your congress may have voted but that the war is wrong and those people that made it happen are guilty of crimes against humanity. And should be held accountable for their actions just like any other nation that perpertrates these wrongs against another.
And on that note this 9 year old with her inferior intellect is off to bed.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Jeanie, you know I hold you on the same level as me.
Are you sure about the un part? I was under the impression that France and Russia threatened to vetoe the decision and thus the US stopped asking support from the un. Hence the illegal part, if you consider the un has a say in what is legal and illegal in international laws. Your country does not as it doesn't recognize the power of international courts. So from a us point of view the war is not illegal, from a european point of view that war is.
i'm not fan of the Iraq war. but all this illegal talk is childish, as is this thread. no one was arrested for protesting.
I think you will find the iraq war is illigal jlew.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Unfortuntaley as of right now, under international law, war crimes can only take place AFTER the initial act of aggression. And some of the actions of the Bush Administration have been illegal, such as torture. I also believe some domestic issues are illegal as well, such as wiretapping.
to sum it up, the ICC has accepted the "crime of aggression" as illegal, but it cannot be enforced until a definition is set. The UN cannot press charges, and their judicial branch has not adopted a "crime of aggression". Some US actions have violated the geneva conventions. And in the greatest country in the world the president can legally lie to the public and invade a country.
"The masters tools will never bring down the masters house" a~d
and for the record, a 9 year old understands that unilaterally and pre emptively invading a nation based on lies should be illegal, and it will be illegal.
so for the record, and the future, when i speak of this illegal war i mean it. it may not be by our law, it may not be by international law (yet), but is should be, and i will never change my mind. it should be illegal, because it is illegal. if blocking a street is illegal and punishable by arrest, then this war and crime of aggresion certainly should be. anyone that argues different is not "childish", they are simply a fool.
hijacking and murder are not illegal?
thank you
no no, thank you.
do you think the president should be able to legally lie to the public to start a pre emptive war?
you keep using this word....lies...get over it
my2hands I'm totally with you, as are many, many people, and I really admire your determination because you are arguing against a brick wall.
People you debate with simply do not have the capability to think outside the pack and do whats right.
They understand that what is happening is not morally correct, you cant show them this because they know, but its not important to them.
What is important to them is proving some sort of intellectual superiority over others because they can read what others say and repeat, or because they were born in a country that happens to be powerful at this time. Its like a computer game for them, they sit at home, they give nothing, and they take an abstract feeling of superiority. They will argue blue the packs bullshit because they love the this feeling.
I hope you realise I'm not having a go at you or trying to preach to you, because you are WAY smarter than I.
A war that they have to fight in is the only thing that can wipe the smug grins from they're sickeningly self-satisfied faces, and neither you or I are ready to start that war yet.
no i will not get over it. my country fucking invaded another country for no reason. all based on lies. your president lied to you, it is reality. perhaps you should get over it and realize when your being used and lied to. the president is not some almighty fucking being. he is a liar, and a murderer. and if he is not a liar then where is the 9/11 connection? and where is the WMD?
im not defending bush. i'm just stating what happened.
no, you are stating bullshit history. that is not what happened. you think he was given "false intelligence", or invaded out of "anger", or because of "9/11", or they were a "threat"... i say his office was the one looking for the false evidence to showcase, they got what they wanted and ran with it knowing it was bullshit
i have a bridge for sale if your interested
by stating the white houses version of "what happened" you are defending bush
i'm not going to say im right and your wrong. we may never know the exact proven truth
the white house isnt the only one who believes that. nice try.
"there is a sucker born evey minute" ~~ PT Barnum
unfortunately some people still believe it, a VERY small minority. this same group probably also believes noah built a boat with 2 of every animal :rolleyes:
some people believe in the tooth fairy, that sure doesnt make it real
Do you really believe the rubbish that you just wrote, it's all lies.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=881321004838285177&q=the+power+of+nightmares
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/3755686.stm
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.