No, it was not obvious what your intent was. To me, it did seem to belittle the impact of the post. You have clarified and said that wasn't what you meant and that's fine...but it wasn't obvious initially.
And I'll say it again, spreading the notion that the troops should could home and backing it up with good reasoning is about all you CAN do right now. Now there are plenty of outlets to spread this idea, some being more powerful and reaching further than others...but voicing your concern and voting is all we have.
well in all honesty, there isn't much *impact* to a post that to me, states the obvious...bring the troops home safe and sound asap...that's why i ASK if there is more....more to say, more to do...beyond posting here things that most of us seem to desire, which is basically akin to preaching to the choir. however, it is not a *critique* in any sense. that's all. however, what you infer from my posts and what i intend, vastly different more often than not...and i would hazard a guess that has more to do with what you possibly 'read into' my posts for whatever reasons you may harbor...and my pretty straight-forward posts. seems che and my2hands both chose to see exactly what i asked...and i appreciate their feedback.
anyway, i would love to hear back from my2hands in regards to the whole fed tax thing, b/c i am quite curious. i don't personally know anyone who has demonstrated true civil disopbedience in such a manner...and i certainly would respect ANYone who actually followed through with such, and would love to know what repercussions, if any, arose from that.
well in all honesty, there isn't much *impact* to a post that to me, states the obvious...bring the troops home safe and sound asap...that's why i ASK if there is more....more to say, more to do...beyond posting here things that most of us seem to desire, which is basically akin to preaching to the choir. however, it is not a *critique* in any sense. that's all. however, what you infer from my posts and what i intend, vastly different more often than not...and i would hazard a guess that has more to do with what you possibly 'read into' my posts for whatever reasons you may harbor...and my pretty straight-forward posts. seems che and my2hands both chose to see exactly what i asked...and i appreciate their feedback.
More often than not? I don't even recall this happening before...oh well. And I don't have any reasons to look for anything in your posts. We hardly interact here or elsewhere. I think you're looking into to this a bit more than is needed. All I can do is read your posts and take it how I perceive it. If I'm wrong then you can easily make yourself more clear and that's that (which has been done so I don't see what the problem is). I'm not exactly sure why you're making a big deal out of me taking you wrong...it happens all the time here.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
all true. however, what good does that do us today? what do you or anyone suggest each of us do to 'have the troops come home NOW'..........? posting these messages over and over, right here....ain't gonna do it. so in all seriousness, i ask all who continually start these threads....what should we do...what are you doing...what CAN realistically be done?
that does seem like a critique to me...maybe you weren't as clear as you thought you were?
i adore ed's politics, his lyrics...and his speaking out.
then you should also adore these posts, no? what is the difference between ed saying it at a show 'over and over' and someone doing it here...?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
But it is the case here. Most Iraqi's want to give democracy a chance, but they can't get the opportunity because of all the fighting going on. This isn't a full-scale civil war. You have about 10% of the population up in arms and the rest are sitting back waiting for it to stop. But becuase this smal majority causes so many problems and makes so much noise in the media, you go ahead assume that democracy won't work for the Iraqi people.
the majority of iraqis also want us out and see as doing more harm than good
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
uhhhh......yeeeeaaaaaah, cos that's exactly what was said...
i think someone's reading a little too much into ppl's posts
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
uhhhh......yeeeeaaaaaah, cos that's exactly what was said...
i think someone's reading a little too much into ppl's posts
man, it's been a really long time since i last had a great laugh on the MT, so thanks!
now, back on topic:
to my2hands.....in ALL sincerity, i completely agree with your sentiments in the first post, always have. i may not always agree on the delivery, but really that makes no difference, it is the underlying message that is important...not the semantics of any one post or sentence.
however, you or i or ANYone could post 'bring the troops home NOW' 1000x a day here, every day, and in reality know it will not make a shit of difference. that does not belittle the importance of the sentiment, nor whatever 'impact' of these threads...b/c sure, for me, the only impact i feel is frustration. this IS all that can be done, there is little else to do in reality, and THAT is a very sad fact. i open these threads time and again in the hopes of reading something, anything...someone read/saw/heard somewhere...that is the next *great idea*....what we can do NOW, that will be an action to change this present reality, b/c i personally have nothing else. of course i know the likelihood of such is infamitisimal....but that's all i have now, hope. so while i fully agree with the sentiment and so WISH for it to be so...i know there's little else i can do until election day 2008, and i can only hope all our fellow cititzens feel just as strongly so we CAN affect change then. however, right now...it feels frustratingly futile to me.....and we all KNOW that is a long ways away, and how many may die...will die..........
so for some maybe these posts/threads are a form of venting of this frustration...a release.....and i do respect that. for me, it is a frustrating reminder that there is little else we CAN do, right now, to make this wish a reality. i know this is so, but i so want action, something so we can make it stop...instead of just saying it, typing it, wishing for it......b/c i do stand by the sentiment of no matter how many times we may say it here, it ain't gonna make it so. if it would, i would type it 1000x a day every day to make it happen......i have wished for so long.....that's all. agree, disagree....whatever...as ever.....just sharing my thoughts like anyone else......
altho i AM still curious about the fed tax thing, i'd really love to know what if any consequences arose from such actions if you have personally followed suit.
anyway...i'm done. i appreciate the few answers people shared, i guess as ever, i simply hoped, wished for more. i've got nothing else, but i know there are a fair few intelligent posters here...so always hope someone finds something so we could do something right now, today, to affect this change......but i do mean it when i say, bring the troops home! i just wish my saying actually could do something about it......
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
man, it's been a really long time since i last had a great laugh on the MT, so thanks!
now, back on topic:
to my2hands.....in ALL sincerity, i completely agree with your sentiments in the first post, always have. i may not always agree on the delivery, but really that makes no difference, it is the underlying message that is important...not the semantics of any one post or sentence.
obviously after 5 years of bullshit you can understand the reason for the style of delivery.
however, you or i or ANYone could post 'bring the troops home NOW' 1000x a day here, every day, and in reality know it will not make a shit of difference.
thats obvious
that does not belittle the importance of the sentiment, nor whatever 'impact' of these threads...b/c sure, for me, the only impact i feel is frustration. this IS all that can be done, there is little else to do in reality, and THAT is a very sad fact. i open these threads time and again in the hopes of reading something, anything...someone read/saw/heard somewhere...that is the next *great idea*....what we can do NOW, that will be an action to change this present reality, b/c i personally have nothing else. of course i know the likelihood of such is infamitisimal....but that's all i have now, hope. so while i fully agree with the sentiment and so WISH for it to be so...i know there's little else i can do until election day 2008, and i can only hope all our fellow cititzens feel just as strongly so we CAN affect change then. however, right now...it feels frustratingly futile to me.....and we all KNOW that is a long ways away, and how many may die...will die..........
many feel this way, you are certainly not alone
so for some maybe these posts/threads are a form of venting of this frustration...a release.....and i do respect that.
or they are a form of discussion, this is a message baord. it is the same as discussing a new movie you like or what TV shows you watch. the people in the "Lost" thread will not affect the outcome by posting about it, but it gives them a chance to discuss an interest of theirs. no one has ever claimed that a thread is going to stop a war.
for me, it is a frustrating reminder that there is little else we CAN do, right now, to make this wish a reality. i know this is so, but i so want action, something so we can make it stop...instead of just saying it, typing it, wishing for it......b/c i do stand by the sentiment of no matter how many times we may say it here, it ain't gonna make it so.
again, no one has ever claimed this thread will stop the war. a message board is for discussion, and this is the political forum of this particular message board. and discussion is one of the key pieces of ending this war.
if it would, i would type it 1000x a day every day to make it happen
so would i
......i have wished for so long.....that's all. agree, disagree....whatever...as ever.....just sharing my thoughts like anyone else......
this is a message board, all you can do is share your thoughts. that is what it is designed for.
altho i AM still curious about the fed tax thing, i'd really love to know what if any consequences arose from such actions if you have personally followed suit.
honestly i do not feel comfortable sharing my experiences with this one way or the other on an open forum, considering an admission of withholding federal taxes purposely is a crime. but lets just say the IRS and i dont get along. take from that what you will if you have any questions feel free to pm me and i can either help or i can point you in the right direction.
anyway...i'm done. i appreciate the few answers people shared, i guess as ever, i simply hoped, wished for more. i've got nothing else, but i know there are a fair few intelligent posters here...
more than a few
so always hope someone finds something so we could do something right now, today, to affect this change......but i do mean it when i say, bring the troops home! i just wish my saying actually could do something about it......
your voice is like one at a football game. by itself you can barely hear it, but when combined with the rest of the stadium it is deafening.
thanks for your honesty. remember this is a message board, where people discuss things. they might discuss their dogs, they might discuss their favorite movies, they might discuss eddies hair, or they might discuss the war. just like drooling over ed's hair in a thread doesnt mean you think you are going to fuck him, discussing the war doesnt mean you think your thread is going to stop it. but one thing is certain, we will never end this if we do not discuss amongst eact other and share ideas, opinion, and feelings. why do you think the military is blocking sites like this one now, to keep the soldiers from seeing and being apart of the discussion, because they know ultimately this is our greatest weapon, our voice.
i won't go point for point...b/c the answers are all basically the same...agree. we differ on the delivery/style/points/effectiveness...but the bottomline, wish for the same things. i AM well aware of the purpose of this thread...this forum...etc, etc. i too am participating in the discussion. even by questioning the usefulness IS participation...my posts ARE part of the 'discussion' process, whether one agrees with their validity or not...just as we all can ask, question, seek information...etc, etc.
and, thanks for the semi-answers. as i have no interest in actually doing so, it WAS purely curiosity on my part. obviously...you have not publicly announced if you are doing so..and i respect that, i just think as a form of protest, not very effective without the true announcement of civil disobedience. but hey, i applaud any/all efforts...whether i agree with them or not b/c we all know SOMEthing has to be done. anyway, keep on keeping on...i am sure we all will continue to share our thoughts...and no worries, i DO full well remember this is a message board ...just participating in the messages.......
obviously after 5 years of bullshit you can understand the reason for the style of delivery.
thats obvious many feel this way, you are certainly not alone
or they are a form of discussion, this is a message baord. it is the same as discussing a new movie you like or what TV shows you watch. the people in the "Lost" thread will not affect the outcome by posting about it, but it gives them a chance to discuss an interest of theirs. no one has ever claimed that a thread is going to stop a war. again, no one has ever claimed this thread will stop the war. a message board is for discussion, and this is the political forum of this particular message board. and discussion is one of the key pieces of ending this war. so would i this is a message board, all you can do is share your thoughts. that is what it is designed for.
honestly i do not feel comfortable sharing my experiences with this one way or the other on an open forum, considering an admission of withholding federal taxes purposely is a crime. but lets just say the IRS and i dont get along. take from that what you will if you have any questions feel free to pm me and i can either help or i can point you in the right direction.
more than a few your voice is like one at a football game. by itself you can barely hear it, but when combined with the rest of the stadium it is deafening.
thanks for your honesty. remember this is a message board, where people discuss things. they might discuss their dogs, they might discuss their favorite movies, they might discuss eddies hair, or they might discuss the war. just like drooling over ed's hair in a thread doesnt mean you think you are going to fuck him, discussing the war doesnt mean you think your thread is going to stop it. but one thing is certain, we will never end this if we do not discuss amongst eact other and share ideas, opinion, and feelings. why do you think the military is blocking sites like this one now, to keep the soldiers from seeing and being apart of the discussion, because they know ultimately this is our greatest weapon, our voice.
man, it's been a really long time since i last had a great laugh on the MT, so thanks!
now, back on topic:
to my2hands.....in ALL sincerity, i completely agree with your sentiments in the first post, always have. i may not always agree on the delivery, but really that makes no difference, it is the underlying message that is important...not the semantics of any one post or sentence.
however, you or i or ANYone could post 'bring the troops home NOW' 1000x a day here, every day, and in reality know it will not make a shit of difference. that does not belittle the importance of the sentiment, nor whatever 'impact' of these threads...b/c sure, for me, the only impact i feel is frustration. this IS all that can be done, there is little else to do in reality, and THAT is a very sad fact. i open these threads time and again in the hopes of reading something, anything...someone read/saw/heard somewhere...that is the next *great idea*....what we can do NOW, that will be an action to change this present reality, b/c i personally have nothing else. of course i know the likelihood of such is infamitisimal....but that's all i have now, hope. so while i fully agree with the sentiment and so WISH for it to be so...i know there's little else i can do until election day 2008, and i can only hope all our fellow cititzens feel just as strongly so we CAN affect change then. however, right now...it feels frustratingly futile to me.....and we all KNOW that is a long ways away, and how many may die...will die..........
so for some maybe these posts/threads are a form of venting of this frustration...a release.....and i do respect that. for me, it is a frustrating reminder that there is little else we CAN do, right now, to make this wish a reality. i know this is so, but i so want action, something so we can make it stop...instead of just saying it, typing it, wishing for it......b/c i do stand by the sentiment of no matter how many times we may say it here, it ain't gonna make it so. if it would, i would type it 1000x a day every day to make it happen......i have wished for so long.....that's all. agree, disagree....whatever...as ever.....just sharing my thoughts like anyone else......
altho i AM still curious about the fed tax thing, i'd really love to know what if any consequences arose from such actions if you have personally followed suit.
anyway...i'm done. i appreciate the few answers people shared, i guess as ever, i simply hoped, wished for more. i've got nothing else, but i know there are a fair few intelligent posters here...so always hope someone finds something so we could do something right now, today, to affect this change......but i do mean it when i say, bring the troops home! i just wish my saying actually could do something about it......
???
the way you worded it CAN be taken as critical...that doesn't mean that is how you meant it, but to say nothing you said could be taken as criticism is just not true. maybe it was just misinterpretation...maybe you meant it out of frustration...it still remains your initial post could certainly be taken that way, that does not mean it's anything personal against you...just say 'no, that's not how i meant it, this is what i meant...' and everyone could move on.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
They are brainwashed by Muslim clerics. They lived under a brutal dictator. Instead of helping the people who removed that dictator, they hide information from Americans on where the insurgents and their stockpiles are. I do not trust their judgment to make any decision. They are ignorant. If the insurgents stopped killing, Americans would stop killing. If Americans leave, then the insurgents keep killing these brainwashed people who think America is the devil. The enemy is the insurgents, and the Iraqi public supports them because the clerics do. Brainwashed.
They are brainwashed by Muslim clerics. They lived under a brutal dictator. Instead of helping the people who removed that dictator, they hide information from Americans on where the insurgents and their stockpiles are. I do not trust their judgment to make any decision. They are ignorant. If the insurgents stopped killing, Americans would stop killing. If Americans leave, then the insurgents keep killing these brainwashed people who think America is the devil. The enemy is the insurgents, and the Iraqi public supports them because the clerics do. Brainwashed.
gee ... i wonder where else there was brainwashing?
They are brainwashed by Muslim clerics. They lived under a brutal dictator. Instead of helping the people who removed that dictator, they hide information from Americans on where the insurgents and their stockpiles are. I do not trust their judgment to make any decision. They are ignorant. If the insurgents stopped killing, Americans would stop killing. If Americans leave, then the insurgents keep killing these brainwashed people who think America is the devil. The enemy is the insurgents, and the Iraqi public supports them because the clerics do. Brainwashed.
That is ..... well, I don't want to be too rude today.
They hide information from Americans because they remember who we are. They're not going to help the people who "removed" that dictator because they remember that the same people helped empower that dictator. If I hand a man a bat to beat the living shit out of you for hours on end, then I take the bat away, am I your hero?
That is ..... well, I don't want to be too rude today.
They hide information from Americans because they remember who we are. They're not going to help the people who "removed" that dictator because they remember that the same people helped empower that dictator. If I hand a man a bat to beat the living shit out of you for hours on end, then I take the bat away, am I your hero?
Okay, I'm getting beat with this bat. Then you come and take it away. I will be at least happy you took it away, but I will admit we will not be best friends. Now, another neighbor comes up with a bat and starts to beat me with it, and you come to take that person's bat away as well. I will not try to keep you from taking the bat away, but would in fact be very pleased to help you take the bat away.
But seriously, can you not see people in that region who only know what their dictators or clerics want them to know? They are not aware of the rest of the world. That is cut and dry. Now, if they all vote us to leave, we leave. But until that happens, I don't think their opinion should matter in our process of whether to stay or not, because they are just as clueless as you all think Bush is.
the way you worded it CAN be taken as critical...that doesn't mean that is how you meant it, but to say nothing you said could be taken as criticism is just not true. maybe it was just misinterpretation...maybe you meant it out of frustration...it still remains your initial post could certainly be taken that way, that does not mean it's anything personal against you...just say 'no, that's not how i meant it, this is what i meant...' and everyone could move on.
who cares? take it as critical if you like. others who actually addressed my questions took it as intended, only you and abook seem focused on anything else in my posts. seriously...it's simply my opinion, either way. i HAVE moved on, the moment i posted it...seems some others haven't tho. i explained myslef a few times over now...for those of you who did request more clarity, all the rest was continued participation in the thread...and not about anything else.
i think someone's reading a little too much into ppl's posts
the irony comment is simply b/c it IS iroinic...saying *I* am reading too much into things...hahaha. if you don't see the humor of you posting that here in this thread, to me...c'est la vie. the rest of that post was clearly directed to my2hands...thus why i said 'to my2hands'.......but thanks for letting me know none of it was personal, no worries...it was never a concern, i don't take anything personally from people well, who i am not personal with. i simply answered b/c i was asked, a few times...for more clarification, etc. then i was simply letting it go b/c i just thought...why bother? i had said everything i had wanted to and then some. now if you want to continue to analyze my posts...enjoy...i am rather going to simply focus on the thread topic as i think i've explained myself well enough. agree, disagree....couldn't care less......so yea...moved on awhile ago........i think this dialogue/analysis of my post content is laughable at this point...questions in regards to them have been asked, answered and then some. take em at face value, take it however you want to interpret it...read into em all ya like.
i said it earlier that i really have nothing else to add...i think i got whatever 'answers' i may from here, so those who addressed the content and questions of my posts...thank you. i did want to adress my2hands responses, much appreciated.....keep up the good fight, always.
.... because they are just as clueless as you all think Bush is.
I don't think Bush is clueless. I think he believes in U.S. hegemony and empire building, but I don't think he's clueless.
Not be best friends? Shit, under the scenerio I laid out, if given the chance you'd likely start beating me with that bat. But you don't have one. When the neighbors come in and start shit with me, even if you get hit with a few glancing blows in the process, you're not going to side with me. Then, if given a bat, you'll likely help the neighbor. If you have a long standing feud with the neighbor, you'll go at both of us.
We are not trusted there. We never will be. The propaganda the leaders of that region feed their populations is only reinforced by our presence and actions. Ignorant? Maybe. But they'd be just as ignorant if they blindly listened to us as well. It's a mess, no doubt.
Now, this: "if they all vote us to leave, we leave. But until that happens, I don't think their opinion should matter in our process of whether to stay or not...." is contradictory. You're basically saying if they vote for us to leave we should - so we shouldn't let them vote for us to leave. Votes are official "opinions" after all.
who cares? take it as critical if you like. others who actually addressed my questions took it as intended, only you and abook seem focused on anything else in my posts. seriously...it's simply my opinion, either way. i HAVE moved on, the moment i posted it...seems some others haven't tho. i explained myslef a few times over now...for those of you who did request more clarity, all the rest was continued participation in the thread...and not about anything else.
man, all this rambling and backpeddling is giving me a headache...
no one is focused on you, get over it!
see, abook took your comment a certain way, you got bent out of shape and acted as if it was personal...to quote you:
"however, what you infer from my posts and what i intend, vastly different more often than not...and i would hazard a guess that has more to do with what you possibly 'read into' my posts for whatever reasons you may harbor"
that was not it at all...she took your comment as criticism, which you claimed
"no where in either post was any *criticism* present so i do fail to see where you get that."
then i bolded a part that could very easily be taken as being critical...instead of accepting this and saying 'i guess you misunderstood what i meant' you keep going on and on about how you moved on...yet it takes a couple paragraphs to 'prove' this (to whom i wonder?)
just explaining how it was taken how it was, you seem to want to act as if it's personal
the irony comment is simply b/c it IS iroinic...saying *I* am reading too much into things...hahaha. if you don't see the humor of you posting that here in this thread, to me...c'est la vie. the rest of that post was clearly directed to my2hands...thus why i said 'to my2hands'.......
the rest of what post?? what you quoted me in this reply was only 2 lines, nowhere in it was my2hands mentioned...(post 66)
but thanks for letting me know none of it was personal, no worries...it was never a concern, i don't take anything personally from people well, who i am not personal with. i simply answered b/c i was asked, a few times...for more clarification, etc. then i was simply letting it go b/c i just thought...why bother? i had said everything i had wanted to and then some. now if you want to continue to analyze my posts...enjoy...i am rather going to simply focus on the thread topic as i think i've explained myself well enough. agree, disagree....couldn't care less......so yea...moved on awhile ago........i think this dialogue/analysis of my post content is laughable at this point...questions in regards to them have been asked, answered and then some. take em at face value, take it however you want to interpret it...read into em all ya like.
i said it earlier that i really have nothing else to add...i think i got whatever 'answers' i may from here, so those who addressed the content and questions of my posts...thank you. i did want to adress my2hands responses, much appreciated.....keep up the good fight, always.
for someone who has nothing to add it sure seems the opposite
it seems like you do have a problem, but i could be wrong and i give up trying to figure it out
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
man, all this rambling and backpeddling is giving me a headache...
no one is focused on you, get over it!
see, abook took your comment a certain way, you got bent out of shape and acted as if it was personal...to quote you:
"however, what you infer from my posts and what i intend, vastly different more often than not...and i would hazard a guess that has more to do with what you possibly 'read into' my posts for whatever reasons you may harbor"
that was not it at all...she took your comment as criticism, which you claimed
"no where in either post was any *criticism* present so i do fail to see where you get that."
then i bolded a part that could very easily be taken as being critical...instead of accepting this and saying 'i guess you misunderstood what i meant' you keep going on and on about how you moved on...yet it takes a couple paragraphs to 'prove' this (to whom i wonder?)
just explaining how it was taken how it was, you seem to want to act as if it's personal
a little self important, wouldn't you say?
the rest of what post?? what you quoted me in this reply was only 2 lines, nowhere in it was my2hands mentioned...(post 66)
for someone who has nothing to add it sure seems the opposite
it seems like you do have a problem, but i could be wrong and i give up trying to figure it out
Is it my turn to play good cop now?
Seriously, let's just forget about this. It's not too productive or purposeful. Although, it does remind me of the old days when you used to come to the defense of little overly sensitive me quite frequently.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The original question to this thread was why cant we bring home the freinds and loved ones serving time in the Gulf...
Some dissagree with those personel being sent over to Iraq etc......
They arent liking the choices that people are making, often for others...
Have you stopped to think for one minute about the small chance that some of those service men and women might actually WANT to be there ?
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
BTW, I have had the Avacado CD since it came out and have only just played it for the first time today.
no 'backpeddling'. and if you two stopped questioning my comments, i'd have stopped responding, simple as that, i tend to do that when questioned. i WAS trying to clarify, and i did, more than once. what else was being asked...i don't know, don't know why anyone cared. i still don't see that or any of my comments as *critical*....i saw that ONE statement, especially in the CONTEXT of the post....as a statement of fact. it IS. it's all perception, and i did more than once clairfy any MISperceptions. however, in the future....i simply won't bother. and let what one may infer...right or wrong.....and sure, perhaps in the future PMs are better, or even better....just take what you want from my posts, rightly or wrongly...and then ignore the rest....b/c honestly, what difference does it make if it was a *criticism* or not? you two both went back and forth with me...just for THAT? that's it? i really thought there had to be more to it....eh well. but yea, i guess we all can just forget trying to 'figure it out.' i don't have a 'problem'....i was just brought up to respond when spoken/written to....and so i did.
*edit...will say, more than ever.....this weekend is a GREAT time to focus on the troops, and all their sacrifices. a BIG thank you to every service man/woman...past and present and sadly active right now........you ARE remembered this Memorial Day, and always......hope you ALL can make it home safe and sound ASAP!
and, thanks for the semi-answers. as i have no interest in actually doing so, it WAS purely curiosity on my part. obviously...you have not publicly announced if you are doing so..and i respect that, i just think as a form of protest, not very effective without the true announcement of civil disobedience. but hey, i applaud any/all efforts...
not everything is a protest, sometimes people just dont want to pay for the slaughter of children. if i did withhold my taxes i wouldnt do it for a pat on the back, nor would i feel a need to announce it. especially considering the possible consequences. and just because i havent "announced" my actions in this thread does not mean that i am not actively involved with a larger group that has taken the same action as myself, therefore participating in an act of organized civil disobendience.
i would like everyone to withhold their fed taxes, because we are paying for this war, so we should not rely on bullshit politicians to stop the funding with a bill, we should stop it ourselves. we control the purse strings, not Joe Lieberman.
not everything is a protest, sometimes people just dont want to pay for the slaughter of children. if i did withhold my taxes i wouldnt do it for a pat on the back, nor would i feel a need to announce it. especially considering the possible consequences. and just because i havent "announced" my actions in this thread does not mean that i am not actively involved with a larger group that has taken the same action as myself, therefore participating in an act of organized civil disobendience.
i would like everyone to withhold their fed taxes, because we are paying for this war, so we should not rely on bullshit politicians to stop the funding with a bill, we should stop it ourselves. we control the purse strings, not Joe Lieberman.
have you seen the movie stranger than fiction?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
not everything is a protest, sometimes people just dont want to pay for the slaughter of children. if i did withhold my taxes i wouldnt do it for a pat on the back, nor would i feel a need to announce it. especially considering the possible consequences. and just because i havent "announced" my actions in this thread does not mean that i am not actively involved with a larger group that has taken the same action as myself, therefore participating in an act of organized civil disobendience.
i would like everyone to withhold their fed taxes, because we are paying for this war, so we should not rely on bullshit politicians to stop the funding with a bill, we should stop it ourselves. we control the purse strings, not Joe Lieberman.
oh i hear ya, that's why i said 'as a form of protest'...but know full well there are other reasons/uses to do so. and i whole-heartedly agree with you, but i still could not get myself at this point to not pay my fed taxes. firstly, i don't know how you can even get your employer NOT to withhold taxes from your paycheck, haha...i think IRS is VERY good at tracking people down and i have way too much to lose.....and honestly, i just am not willing to fully 'give up' on my government, and not pay my share for ALL the OTHER stuff i benefit from and feel i should contribute to as a citizen of this country - and, even for our soldiers.....while i don't agree with them being over there, they ARE over there...and i DO feel it is my duty to help fund things that protect them too, not just cause harm. however, i absolutely agree.....everyone should decide for themselves, and i certainly applaud anyone who does follow their convictions to such a degree.
Comments
well in all honesty, there isn't much *impact* to a post that to me, states the obvious...bring the troops home safe and sound asap...that's why i ASK if there is more....more to say, more to do...beyond posting here things that most of us seem to desire, which is basically akin to preaching to the choir. however, it is not a *critique* in any sense. that's all. however, what you infer from my posts and what i intend, vastly different more often than not...and i would hazard a guess that has more to do with what you possibly 'read into' my posts for whatever reasons you may harbor...and my pretty straight-forward posts. seems che and my2hands both chose to see exactly what i asked...and i appreciate their feedback.
anyway, i would love to hear back from my2hands in regards to the whole fed tax thing, b/c i am quite curious. i don't personally know anyone who has demonstrated true civil disopbedience in such a manner...and i certainly would respect ANYone who actually followed through with such, and would love to know what repercussions, if any, arose from that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
More often than not?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
that does seem like a critique to me...maybe you weren't as clear as you thought you were?
then you should also adore these posts, no? what is the difference between ed saying it at a show 'over and over' and someone doing it here...?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the majority of iraqis also want us out and see as doing more harm than good
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
seems the only useful thing to say here.....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
uhhhh......yeeeeaaaaaah, cos that's exactly what was said...
i think someone's reading a little too much into ppl's posts
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
man, it's been a really long time since i last had a great laugh on the MT, so thanks!
now, back on topic:
to my2hands.....in ALL sincerity, i completely agree with your sentiments in the first post, always have. i may not always agree on the delivery, but really that makes no difference, it is the underlying message that is important...not the semantics of any one post or sentence.
however, you or i or ANYone could post 'bring the troops home NOW' 1000x a day here, every day, and in reality know it will not make a shit of difference. that does not belittle the importance of the sentiment, nor whatever 'impact' of these threads...b/c sure, for me, the only impact i feel is frustration. this IS all that can be done, there is little else to do in reality, and THAT is a very sad fact. i open these threads time and again in the hopes of reading something, anything...someone read/saw/heard somewhere...that is the next *great idea*....what we can do NOW, that will be an action to change this present reality, b/c i personally have nothing else. of course i know the likelihood of such is infamitisimal....but that's all i have now, hope. so while i fully agree with the sentiment and so WISH for it to be so...i know there's little else i can do until election day 2008, and i can only hope all our fellow cititzens feel just as strongly so we CAN affect change then. however, right now...it feels frustratingly futile to me.....and we all KNOW that is a long ways away, and how many may die...will die..........
so for some maybe these posts/threads are a form of venting of this frustration...a release.....and i do respect that. for me, it is a frustrating reminder that there is little else we CAN do, right now, to make this wish a reality. i know this is so, but i so want action, something so we can make it stop...instead of just saying it, typing it, wishing for it......b/c i do stand by the sentiment of no matter how many times we may say it here, it ain't gonna make it so. if it would, i would type it 1000x a day every day to make it happen......i have wished for so long.....that's all. agree, disagree....whatever...as ever.....just sharing my thoughts like anyone else......
altho i AM still curious about the fed tax thing, i'd really love to know what if any consequences arose from such actions if you have personally followed suit.
anyway...i'm done. i appreciate the few answers people shared, i guess as ever, i simply hoped, wished for more. i've got nothing else, but i know there are a fair few intelligent posters here...so always hope someone finds something so we could do something right now, today, to affect this change......but i do mean it when i say, bring the troops home! i just wish my saying actually could do something about it......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
And they are brainwashed.
interesting concept of democracy ya got there...
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
thats obvious many feel this way, you are certainly not alone
or they are a form of discussion, this is a message baord. it is the same as discussing a new movie you like or what TV shows you watch. the people in the "Lost" thread will not affect the outcome by posting about it, but it gives them a chance to discuss an interest of theirs. no one has ever claimed that a thread is going to stop a war. again, no one has ever claimed this thread will stop the war. a message board is for discussion, and this is the political forum of this particular message board. and discussion is one of the key pieces of ending this war. so would i this is a message board, all you can do is share your thoughts. that is what it is designed for.
honestly i do not feel comfortable sharing my experiences with this one way or the other on an open forum, considering an admission of withholding federal taxes purposely is a crime. but lets just say the IRS and i dont get along. take from that what you will
more than a few
thanks for your honesty. remember this is a message board, where people discuss things. they might discuss their dogs, they might discuss their favorite movies, they might discuss eddies hair, or they might discuss the war. just like drooling over ed's hair in a thread doesnt mean you think you are going to fuck him, discussing the war doesnt mean you think your thread is going to stop it. but one thing is certain, we will never end this if we do not discuss amongst eact other and share ideas, opinion, and feelings. why do you think the military is blocking sites like this one now, to keep the soldiers from seeing and being apart of the discussion, because they know ultimately this is our greatest weapon, our voice.
peace
and, thanks for the semi-answers.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
???
the way you worded it CAN be taken as critical...that doesn't mean that is how you meant it, but to say nothing you said could be taken as criticism is just not true. maybe it was just misinterpretation...maybe you meant it out of frustration...it still remains your initial post could certainly be taken that way, that does not mean it's anything personal against you...just say 'no, that's not how i meant it, this is what i meant...' and everyone could move on.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
They are brainwashed by Muslim clerics. They lived under a brutal dictator. Instead of helping the people who removed that dictator, they hide information from Americans on where the insurgents and their stockpiles are. I do not trust their judgment to make any decision. They are ignorant. If the insurgents stopped killing, Americans would stop killing. If Americans leave, then the insurgents keep killing these brainwashed people who think America is the devil. The enemy is the insurgents, and the Iraqi public supports them because the clerics do. Brainwashed.
gee ... i wonder where else there was brainwashing?
Gee...still doesn't take away from my point that the Iraqi public are generally ignorant and brainwashed. Education my friends, education.
They hide information from Americans because they remember who we are. They're not going to help the people who "removed" that dictator because they remember that the same people helped empower that dictator. If I hand a man a bat to beat the living shit out of you for hours on end, then I take the bat away, am I your hero?
Okay, I'm getting beat with this bat. Then you come and take it away. I will be at least happy you took it away, but I will admit we will not be best friends. Now, another neighbor comes up with a bat and starts to beat me with it, and you come to take that person's bat away as well. I will not try to keep you from taking the bat away, but would in fact be very pleased to help you take the bat away.
But seriously, can you not see people in that region who only know what their dictators or clerics want them to know? They are not aware of the rest of the world. That is cut and dry. Now, if they all vote us to leave, we leave. But until that happens, I don't think their opinion should matter in our process of whether to stay or not, because they are just as clueless as you all think Bush is.
oh ... the irony ...
who cares? take it as critical if you like. others who actually addressed my questions took it as intended, only you and abook seem focused on anything else in my posts. seriously...it's simply my opinion, either way. i HAVE moved on, the moment i posted it...seems some others haven't tho. i explained myslef a few times over now...for those of you who did request more clarity, all the rest was continued participation in the thread...and not about anything else.
the irony comment is simply b/c it IS iroinic...saying *I* am reading too much into things...hahaha. if you don't see the humor of you posting that here in this thread, to me...c'est la vie. the rest of that post was clearly directed to my2hands...thus why i said 'to my2hands'.......but thanks for letting me know none of it was personal, no worries...it was never a concern, i don't take anything personally from people well, who i am not personal with. i simply answered b/c i was asked, a few times...for more clarification, etc. then i was simply letting it go b/c i just thought...why bother? i had said everything i had wanted to and then some. now if you want to continue to analyze my posts...enjoy...i am rather going to simply focus on the thread topic as i think i've explained myself well enough. agree, disagree....couldn't care less......so yea...moved on awhile ago........i think this dialogue/analysis of my post content is laughable at this point...questions in regards to them have been asked, answered and then some. take em at face value, take it however you want to interpret it...read into em all ya like.
i said it earlier that i really have nothing else to add...i think i got whatever 'answers' i may from here, so those who addressed the content and questions of my posts...thank you. i did want to adress my2hands responses, much appreciated.....keep up the good fight, always.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Not be best friends? Shit, under the scenerio I laid out, if given the chance you'd likely start beating me with that bat. But you don't have one. When the neighbors come in and start shit with me, even if you get hit with a few glancing blows in the process, you're not going to side with me. Then, if given a bat, you'll likely help the neighbor. If you have a long standing feud with the neighbor, you'll go at both of us.
We are not trusted there. We never will be. The propaganda the leaders of that region feed their populations is only reinforced by our presence and actions. Ignorant? Maybe. But they'd be just as ignorant if they blindly listened to us as well. It's a mess, no doubt.
Now, this: "if they all vote us to leave, we leave. But until that happens, I don't think their opinion should matter in our process of whether to stay or not...." is contradictory. You're basically saying if they vote for us to leave we should - so we shouldn't let them vote for us to leave. Votes are official "opinions" after all.
man, all this rambling and backpeddling is giving me a headache...
no one is focused on you, get over it!
see, abook took your comment a certain way, you got bent out of shape and acted as if it was personal...to quote you:
"however, what you infer from my posts and what i intend, vastly different more often than not...and i would hazard a guess that has more to do with what you possibly 'read into' my posts for whatever reasons you may harbor"
that was not it at all...she took your comment as criticism, which you claimed
"no where in either post was any *criticism* present so i do fail to see where you get that."
then i bolded a part that could very easily be taken as being critical...instead of accepting this and saying 'i guess you misunderstood what i meant' you keep going on and on about how you moved on...yet it takes a couple paragraphs to 'prove' this (to whom i wonder?)
just explaining how it was taken how it was, you seem to want to act as if it's personal
a little self important, wouldn't you say?
the rest of what post?? what you quoted me in this reply was only 2 lines, nowhere in it was my2hands mentioned...(post 66)
for someone who has nothing to add it sure seems the opposite
it seems like you do have a problem, but i could be wrong and i give up trying to figure it out
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Is it my turn to play good cop now?
Seriously, let's just forget about this. It's not too productive or purposeful. Although, it does remind me of the old days when you used to come to the defense of little overly sensitive me quite frequently.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Some dissagree with those personel being sent over to Iraq etc......
They arent liking the choices that people are making, often for others...
Have you stopped to think for one minute about the small chance that some of those service men and women might actually WANT to be there ?
..
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
BTW, I have had the Avacado CD since it came out and have only just played it for the first time today.
my god! and i thought my not playing it until 2 days after i'd bought it was not quite right.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
good.
no 'backpeddling'. and if you two stopped questioning my comments, i'd have stopped responding, simple as that, i tend to do that when questioned. i WAS trying to clarify, and i did, more than once. what else was being asked...i don't know, don't know why anyone cared. i still don't see that or any of my comments as *critical*....i saw that ONE statement, especially in the CONTEXT of the post....as a statement of fact. it IS. it's all perception, and i did more than once clairfy any MISperceptions. however, in the future....i simply won't bother. and let what one may infer...right or wrong.....and sure, perhaps in the future PMs are better, or even better....just take what you want from my posts, rightly or wrongly...and then ignore the rest....b/c honestly, what difference does it make if it was a *criticism* or not? you two both went back and forth with me...just for THAT? that's it? i really thought there had to be more to it....eh well. but yea, i guess we all can just forget trying to 'figure it out.'
*edit...will say, more than ever.....this weekend is a GREAT time to focus on the troops, and all their sacrifices. a BIG thank you to every service man/woman...past and present and sadly active right now........you ARE remembered this Memorial Day, and always......hope you ALL can make it home safe and sound ASAP!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
great analogy
not everything is a protest, sometimes people just dont want to pay for the slaughter of children. if i did withhold my taxes i wouldnt do it for a pat on the back, nor would i feel a need to announce it. especially considering the possible consequences. and just because i havent "announced" my actions in this thread does not mean that i am not actively involved with a larger group that has taken the same action as myself, therefore participating in an act of organized civil disobendience.
i would like everyone to withhold their fed taxes, because we are paying for this war, so we should not rely on bullshit politicians to stop the funding with a bill, we should stop it ourselves. we control the purse strings, not Joe Lieberman.
have you seen the movie stranger than fiction?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
oh i hear ya, that's why i said 'as a form of protest'...but know full well there are other reasons/uses to do so. and i whole-heartedly agree with you, but i still could not get myself at this point to not pay my fed taxes. firstly, i don't know how you can even get your employer NOT to withhold taxes from your paycheck, haha...i think IRS is VERY good at tracking people down and i have way too much to lose.....and honestly, i just am not willing to fully 'give up' on my government, and not pay my share for ALL the OTHER stuff i benefit from and feel i should contribute to as a citizen of this country - and, even for our soldiers.....while i don't agree with them being over there, they ARE over there...and i DO feel it is my duty to help fund things that protect them too, not just cause harm. however, i absolutely agree.....everyone should decide for themselves, and i certainly applaud anyone who does follow their convictions to such a degree.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
He's a gorgeous, thinking, caring boy....and my only hope is that he'll survive.
That is the reality, folks.