vegetarian? pros & cons.

catefrances

prism wrote:

not just him but George Harrison can't be looking any too healthy either

yeah im starting to think twas a lack of protein that killed george and river.

p.s. i don't eat red meat cause its icky. i hear chocolate has protein in it, i'll go with that. but thanks for your concern carnivores.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Honestly I thing I would rather have cancer then give up Beef, Bacon, and alcohol. *knocks on wood*

It's like having a really bad hangover when you swear up and down you'll never drink again if only you could feel better

I bar-b-q the occasional steak in the summer, but I really don't miss it all that much.

Given to...

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Honestly I thing I would rather have cancer then give up Beef, Bacon, and alcohol. *knocks on wood*

Honestly...

1. you are a dipshit
or
2. you have never had to experience a loved ones' fight with cancer

either way, you are blessed

ignorance is bliss

Given to...

My children have chosen to go vegitarian. I am ok with that on most levels, such as the health benefits if done correctly, and the reasons that they each personally opted to choose this diet. What I dont appreciate is anyone acting and promoting their view point as the most rightous without even giving thought to the opposing point of view. I hope that my kids do what they do and dont act like the snobbish condescending type that come in all walks of life.

As for the health benies, I think it is somewhat individual. I have absolutely terrible cholesterol (225-250+) on an almost meatless diet. One strike from each parent equals a stroke I guess... I should probably embrace a veggie diet completely but I still enjoy meat but have limited what I eat for my own health. A co-worker and friend eats like shit, fast food, binges, loves beef almost daily, almost zero excercise and his cholesterol is less than 100 and his tri-gylcerides are less than 50. Not fair at all.

Eat what you want
Be what you wish
Dont belittle others for your choices
Defend your choices with sound reasoning

peace

Its Evolution Baby

jaamfaan wrote:

Honestly...

1. you are a dipshit
or
2. you have never had to experience a loved ones' fight with cancer

either way, you are blessed

ignorance is bliss

No I have had loved ones who have had cancer, but it seems like I hear about something new everyday that causes cancer and its starting to make me laugh.

My grandma just turned 83 doing many things that cause cancer but she was to busy living life to worry about it.

Songburst

KDH12 wrote:

please do not say that.......

if you have ever had anyone close to you die of cancer I do not think you would feel this way..... I worked in hospice with people who were dying from cancer and they would have eaten the dirt veggies grew in if they thought it would help

I think they were trying to say that you shouldn't necessarily listen to what "they" say. They say bacon causes cancer -- maybe it will, maybe it won't. If I don't like green vegetables and I say that they cause cancer, I become a "they" and now they say that green vegetables cause cancer. Would you stop eating green vegetables if they said that they cause cancer? They do cause cancer BTW (like every food that we eat in this day and age).

surferdude

jaamfaan wrote:

Honestly...

1. you are a dipshit
or
2. you have never had to experience a loved ones' fight with cancer

either way, you are blessed

ignorance is bliss

How about it's about living life on my own terms and taking the risks I deem necessary to live the quality life I want. I will not live my life scared of maybes. Maybe meat will give me cancer, maybe the fish has mercury in it, maybe the pesticides on the veggies will give me cancer.

We are all going to die, one way is nearly as good as another. Death's only sad for the living. I'd rather burn out at 75 with cancer getting me than live to 105 with the last 15 years stuck in a nursing home shitting my diapers because I can't move fast enough to make it to the washroom. It's all about quality of life and each of us decides what's right for us. It's not based on fact just preference.

polaris

health care costs are rising here in canada and i would say a good chunk of that could be associated with diet ...

i'm not promoting vegetarianism or against it ... i think either has to be done right ...

when i cook - i generally shop for local veggies first - then if i have to get em shipped - then organic ... meats are usually organic and local ...

it's much harder when you eat out to do that ...

but i would say - many ills people face can be fixed with a proper diet

onelongsong

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

No I have had loved ones who have had cancer, but it seems like I hear about something new everyday that causes cancer and its starting to make me laugh.

My grandma just turned 83 doing many things that cause cancer but she was to busy living life to worry about it.

my grandmothers lived to 91 and 93; one grandfather lived to 89 after being told his cancer was terminal and given 2 weeks to live when he was 72. i still have 1 grandfather alive at 97. they all grew/grow their own veggies and eat like they did in the old country.
i agree with polaris in that healthcare costs are rising. i also believe that diet is the key to health. my mother and 2 sisters; along with 1 grandfather; changed their diets after being diagnosed with cancer and have cured it. on august 1st; i was diagnosed as having bladder cancer but was found that i had undiagnosed cancer; cured it; but the damage left me with internal bleeding. we're working on that now.
i get letters from customers who have switched to grass fed buffalo and organic veggies who claim they have beaten their cancer.
so this proves to me that diet and health go hand in hand. you're grandmother lived to 83 but she grew up in a time when the earth wasn't poisoned. cattle weren't fed landfill waste until recently. the mercury levels have only reached danger levels recently. pigs have only recently started being fed chicken litter. and; the chemicals we've dumped on the land has just recently reached the aquifer.
i agree with you about not living in fear; but i also think that not living in fear means knowing that what you put in your body is safe.

Songburst

onelongsong wrote:

my grandmothers lived to 91 and 93; one grandfather lived to 89 after being told his cancer was terminal and given 2 weeks to live when he was 72. i still have 1 grandfather alive at 97. they all grew/grow their own veggies and eat like they did in the old country.
i agree with polaris in that healthcare costs are rising. i also believe that diet is the key to health. my mother and 2 sisters; along with 1 grandfather; changed their diets after being diagnosed with cancer and have cured it. on august 1st; i was diagnosed as having bladder cancer but was found that i had undiagnosed cancer; cured it; but the damage left me with internal bleeding. we're working on that now.
i get letters from customers who have switched to grass fed buffalo and organic veggies who claim they have beaten their cancer.
so this proves to me that diet and health go hand in hand. you're grandmother lived to 83 but she grew up in a time when the earth wasn't poisoned. cattle weren't fed landfill waste until recently. the mercury levels have only reached danger levels recently. pigs have only recently started being fed chicken litter. and; the chemicals we've dumped on the land has just recently reached the aquifer.
i agree with you about not living in fear; but i also think that not living in fear means knowing that what you put in your body is safe.

My Great-Grandmother lived until she was 89. She smoked a pack a day for 70 years. Her breakfast was usually fried bacon (fried in an iron skillet ... mmm) and Finnish pancakes (which, if you have never had, you have not lived). Supper was usually some sort of roasted meat and mashed potatoes. She got drunk at least once a week. She had a garden with some vegetables in the summer time (which is like 3 months here), but I can't really attribute her long life and good health to eating organic vegetables occasionally. Judging from the crap that my great-grandmother ingested, I would think that longevity and long term health has more to do with genetics than it does with diet, but that's just me.

FinsburyParkCarrots

It's no-one's damned business why I'm a vegetarian.

fragileblake

Hey, why not base all of your opinions on anecdotal evidence!

Songburst wrote:

My Great-Grandmother lived until she was 89. She smoked a pack a day for 70 years. Her breakfast was usually fried bacon (fried in an iron skillet ... mmm) and Finnish pancakes (which, if you have never had, you have not lived). Supper was usually some sort of roasted meat and mashed potatoes. She got drunk at least once a week. She had a garden with some vegetables in the summer time (which is like 3 months here), but I can't really attribute her long life and good health to eating organic vegetables occasionally. Judging from the crap that my great-grandmother ingested, I would think that longevity and long term health has more to do with genetics than it does with diet, but that's just me.

Songburst

fragileblake wrote:

Hey, why not base all of your opinions on anecdotal evidence!

Isn't that what everyone does?

angryyoungman

i admire people who are vegetarians, it is sort of an honorable thing to do. . .sometimes i wish i could be a vegetarian. . .its just cheeseburgers and chicken taste so damn good

Collin

Songburst wrote:

Isn't that what everyone does?

Yes and no, I guess.


Read this, it's an article that was in last week's (?) Time:


Save Yourself
We know how to prevent many forms of cancer, but apathy gets the better of us.

"Life isn't worth living without a couple of vices." "Something's going to get you in the end." "I'll take my chances."
We all love to feign insouciance about cancer, or to tell apocryphal stories about its apparently random nature — of some haggard two-pack-a-day smoker who lived to be 96, versus the exquisite gamine who never smoked, always used sunscreen and did yoga, but went in for a routine checkup and was told she wouldn't see her 25th birthday. But while it used to be difficult to know who would and who would not be its victims, cancer is easier to predict these days.

the rest of the article is here: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1684206,00.html

Anyway, I'm not a health nut, moderation in all things, right. Don't overdo it.

By the way, I'm perfectly healthy and I eat meat.

Songburst

Collin wrote:

cancer is easier to predict these days.

Indeed. Family history is a great way to figure out if you have a good chance to get cancer. If your grandparents, parents, uncles, etc had cancer, there is a great chance that you will get it too regardless of what you shovel into your mouth.

catefrances

Songburst wrote:

Indeed. Family history is a great way to figure out if you have a good chance to get cancer. If your grandparents, parents, uncles, etc had cancer, there is a great chance that you will get it too regardless of what you shovel into your mouth.

my paternal great grandfather died after a fall from a tram. thank goodness they got rid of all the trams in sydney. i certainly wouldnt want to makes an arse of myself dying that way.

as for cancer in the family. looks like i'm screwed. :(

Songburst

catefrances wrote:

my paternal great grandfather died after a fall from a tram. thank goodness they got rid of all the trams in sydney. i certainly wouldnt want to makes an arse of myself dying that way.

as for cancer in the family. looks like i'm screwed. :(

Haha (about the train joke). I don't think clumsiness is hereditary (or is it?).

I'm just trying to make the point that no matter how healthy you think you a vegetarian diet is, we are more likely to develop diseases like cancer from our genetic conditions than we are likely to produce these diseases by reacting to the "unhealthy" food we eat. I'm of the belief that strictly vegetarian diets are absolutely unhealthy, but that's just me (although I do love my fresh vegetables). At the end of the day, I don't really care what other people eat.

JaneNY

Songburst wrote:

My Great-Grandmother lived until she was 89. She smoked a pack a day for 70 years. Her breakfast was usually fried bacon (fried in an iron skillet ... mmm) and Finnish pancakes (which, if you have never had, you have not lived). Supper was usually some sort of roasted meat and mashed potatoes. She got drunk at least once a week. She had a garden with some vegetables in the summer time (which is like 3 months here), but I can't really attribute her long life and good health to eating organic vegetables occasionally. Judging from the crap that my great-grandmother ingested, I would think that longevity and long term health has more to do with genetics than it does with diet, but that's just me.

My mother smoked a pack a day and died at 70 of lung cancer. Women in her side of the family, including my grandmother, didn't smoke, and usually lived well into their 90's, so it is pretty clear that in my mother's case smoking contributed to her untimely death as compared to her relatives. My grandmother died at 96. Genetics of course plays a part, but the things you choose to do or not do in life also can have an effect. I wonder if your great grandmother also did a lot of physical labor which mitigated some of the effects of her less than ideal health habits? Also how long did other women in the family live?

This is anectodal to be sure, but it has been my experience that after stopping intake of dairy, my skin is the best its every been.

catefrances

Songburst wrote:

Haha (about the train joke). I don't think clumsiness is hereditary (or is it?).

I'm just trying to make the point that no matter how healthy you think you a vegetarian diet is, we are more likely to develop diseases like cancer from our genetic conditions than we are likely to produce these diseases by reacting to the "unhealthy" food we eat. I'm of the belief that strictly vegetarian diets are absolutely unhealthy, but that's just me (although I do love my fresh vegetables). At the end of the day, I don't really care what other people eat.

oh it wasnt a joke. my great grand pappy really did die that way.