And focusing your outrage about China getting the olympics at the torch runner or an athlete is kind of like focusing your outrage about the Iraq war at a foot soldier. Why not protest the Iraq War outside some soldier's house?
...
I just think it is a sad commentary when the bigger of the 2 stories is about the fucking torch. That was the point.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
And focusing your outrage about China getting the olympics at the torch runner or an athlete is kind of like focusing your outrage about the Iraq war at a foot soldier. Why not protest the Iraq War outside some soldier's house?
I don't know if you had notice this but CNN is running the torch thing through out the stupid relay. Seems the protest is getting some news time.
The sad part is the people who thought it was a good idea to send the torch through San Fransisco. There has been a bunch of people on CNN saying how suprised they are to see protest like this in San Fransisco even local leaders are saying the same thing. James Carvile is the only one I watched who was not suprised, which is not really suprising.
Hello McFly!!! this is San Fransisco
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson~
I don't know if you had notice this but CNN is running the torch thing through out the stupid relay. Seems the protest is getting some news time.
The sad part is the people who thought it was a good idea to send the torch through San Fransisco. There has been a bunch of people on CNN saying how suprised they are to see protest like this in San Fransisco even local leaders are saying the same thing. James Carvile is the only one I watched who was not suprised, which is not really suprising.
Hello McFly!!! this is San Fransisco
...
I know... of ALL the fucking cities in the ENTIRE U.S.
...
The brilliant minds pick San Francisco. Then, wonder... why is it a mess.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
"The Olympic flame wasn’t part of the ancient games, and the torch relay didn’t become a fixture in the modern Olympics until the 1936 Berlin Games, when it was part of the Nazi pageantry that promoted Hitler’s beliefs of Aryan supremacy in the world of sports."
...
I just think it is a sad commentary when the bigger of the 2 stories is about the fucking torch. That was the point.
I totally see what you are saying. I just think that with all the people involved with the Beijing Olympics, the torch bearer is the last person you would want to protest. How about the Chinese government, the IOC members, the networks covering the olympics, or the major sponsors like coca-cola.
I totally see what you are saying. I just think that with all the people involved with the Beijing Olympics, the torch bearer is the last person you would want to protest. How about the Chinese government, the IOC members, the networks covering the olympics, or the major sponsors like coca-cola.
They are. But they are using the publicity of the torch bearer to draw attention to their cause. If they held a protest outside of some Coke plant they wouldn't get any media attention. This way guarantees that coverage.
They are. But they are using the publicity of the torch bearer to draw attention to their cause. If they held a protest outside of some Coke plant they wouldn't get any media attention. This way guarantees that coverage.
Which is totally unfair to the guy running the torch (especially when people try to put it out). Sure you get coverage, but it is a crappy way to do it. Like I said before, it would be like protesting the iraq war by starting a protest outside the home of a soldier who came back after losing his legs in combat. If someone did they could also use the injured soldier to draw attention to their cause.
Which is totally unfair to the guy running the torch. Sure you get coverage, but it is a crappy way to do it. Like I said before, it would be like protesting the iraq war by starting a protest outside the home of a soldier who came back after losing his legs in combat. If someone did they could also use the injured soldier to draw attention to their cause.
The guy running the torch has to know about the (much more important) issues of Tibet and Chinese brutality. And its not like the torch is stopping, the guy can still get it wherever its headed.
The guy running the torch has to know about the (much more important) issues of Tibet and Chinese brutality. And its not like the torch is stopping, the guy can still get it wherever its headed.
Maybe he does know, but it is not like China is going is going to pull out of Tibet if some guy decides not to run with the torch. So if it was his lifelong dream why should people try to stop him. And the torch is being stopped when people are knocking it out of the runners hands and spraying them with fire extinguishers.
Maybe he does know, but it is not like China is going is going to pull out of Tibet if some guy decides not to run with the torch. So if it was his lifelong dream why should people try to stop him. And the torch is being stopped when people are knocking it out of the runners hands and spraying them with fire extinguishers.
I didnt' see that, him getting sprayed with a fire extinguisher. That's awesome.
It's true, none of this is going to infuence Chinese policy, that's for the people of China to decide. But to draw attention to the casue in the US can only give them motivation.
This is bigger than some guys dream of running the olympic torch. Too bad for him.
The guy running the torch has to know about the (much more important) issues of Tibet and Chinese brutality. And its not like the torch is stopping, the guy can still get it wherever its headed.
No - they pretty much shut it down and it really makes me mad. I'm not in support of China or its policies, but these people are idiots for protesting the poor torch bearers.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I didnt' see that, him getting sprayed with a fire extinguisher. That's awesome.
It's true, none of this is going to infuence Chinese policy, that's for the people of China to decide. But to draw attention to the casue in the US can only give them motivation.
This is bigger than some guys dream of running the olympic torch. Too bad for him.
I think it was someone in the UK or France who got sprayed with the extinguisher. It is not awesome, it kind of sucks actually since the shit in those extinguishers is not really very good to be inhaling.
I don't look at it as being "too bad for the guy running the torch". The way I see it I don't think that an athlete or a torch bearer should have to bear the weight of this and lose out on their life long goals because some dumbass IOC member back in 2001 got better bribes from the Beijing Olympic bidding committee than they did from the Toronto committee. And lets be realistic, China didn't really have great human right back in 2001 so if people wanted to take a stand it should have been done then. To try and do something now is kind of a pointless gesture since it is not going to stop the Olympics and it not going to change anything with the Chinese government. Which is why I think making athletes and torch runners take responsibility for it, is a lot like expecting individual soldiers to take responsibility for a war that was started by government leaders.
so what? you just sit on your arse cause you dont think it'll make a difference? thats bollocks and you know it. if you believe in something then you act upon those beliefs. you dont say oh she'll be right ...cause it generally isnt right in the end. you can't have principles and not act on them.
well when the torch passes by here, I think I will go protest about the protest against the torch because it is a completely ignorant and worthless thing they are doing.
If you want to protest, hold up a sign, write a letter to a politician, speak out in a public forum but don't harrass the innocent athletes who have worked so hard to get to the olympics. This isn't their problem.
I totally see what you are saying. I just think that with all the people involved with the Beijing Olympics, the torch bearer is the last person you would want to protest. How about the Chinese government, the IOC members, the networks covering the olympics, or the major sponsors like coca-cola.
...
I agree.
I also think a 'boycott' is a fucking joke. It punishes the athletes... I want Misty May and Kerri Walsh to get another chance at an Olympic win. Forcing Misty and Kerri to forfiet their aspirations and continuing to fund this Communist China with sleazy political deals and 'always lower prices, always'... is a fucking joke.
...
To me... the Olympic torch relay is about as newsworthy as Paris Hilton getting yet another traffic ticket.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
so what? you just sit on your arse cause you dont think it'll make a difference? thats bollocks and you know it. if you believe in something then you act upon those beliefs. you dont say oh she'll be right ...cause it generally isnt right in the end. you can't have principles and not act on them.
Sometimes sending a message is very meaningful even if it's doesn't change the outcome. Like the guy that stood in front of the Chinese tank...he didn't change the course of events that day but his voice was heard throughout the world and inspires still today. This may not be on the same level as Tank Man but it stems from the same fed up mentality. It's a symbolic form of protest.
well when the torch passes by here, I think I will go protest about the protest against the torch because it is a completely ignorant and worthless thing they are doing.
Yeah, totally worthless how the protests have drawn the world's attention and put the head of the IOC is a position to urge China to come to a peaceful resolution in Tibet. And really worthless the way it has put pressure on Western governments to take a stand against China in some way over their blatant disregard for human rights.
I think these protests have mattered a lot and are at the very least preventing China from being able to causally sweep this all under the rug. And while this may suck for some of the athlete's or torch bearers, well, they still have their lives at least. Make no mistake, the Olympics and the politics behind it are bigger than the sports and athletes themselves. You can say how unfair that is, but it does not change the fact.
I'm just asking, and please feel free to educate me because I would love to no more of how you feel about this, since you seem closer to it than any of us. But the people have to change their governmet, they have to do something about it. And knowing that the world is actually out there listening and judging their government, does that not give the people more of a reason to fight for a change in their government.
On the same point, yes a lot of people have set back and said nothing about Tibet for years and years but would you not agree that sometimes you have to wait for the right time to strike. And considering how much attention the Olympics will bring to China, isn't this the time to act.
Same for the people of China-Now is the time to do something about your government?
Please don't insult me, but I would love to hear different perspectives, by no means am I saying I have any of the answers-I'm just asking.
Well, firstly, why would I insult you? Do I have a bad rep around these parts or something?
....There's a media black-out of the protests over here. I don't watch the news here - coz it's in a funny lingo - but I'm aware that the protests just aren't mentioned. And as far as the people changing the government...It's a difficult one. I'm certainly no expert on China. I just moved here. Although I can't see any change happening anytime soon. The people just have no access to information here, and if they protest in any way they get locked up. The government has a pretty tight screw on things as far as I can tell.
Yeah, totally worthless how the protests have drawn the world's attention and put the head of the IOC is a position to urge China to come to a peaceful resolution in Tibet. And really worthless the way it has put pressure on Western governments to take a stand against China in some way over their blatant disregard for human rights.
I think these protests have mattered a lot and are at the very least preventing China from being able to causally sweep this all under the rug. And while this may suck for some of the athlete's or torch bearers, well, they still have their lives at least. Make no mistake, the Olympics and the politics behind it are bigger than the sports and athletes themselves. You can say how unfair that is, but it does not change the fact.
This is true. And personally, I couldn't give a shit about the torch bearers. I do feel sorry for the people of China though. I listened to a childrens English speech contest at the weekend, and nearly every one of them mentioned the olympics and how proud they were to be having it in China. I just think it would be a shame for them if the games were ruined by this thing. This event is for the people, not their fucked up government.
Yeah, totally worthless how the protests have drawn the world's attention and put the head of the IOC is a position to urge China to come to a peaceful resolution in Tibet. And really worthless the way it has put pressure on Western governments to take a stand against China in some way over their blatant disregard for human rights.
But even the IOC urging anyone to do anything it totally hypocritically lip service since they are the ones who gave Beijing the games in the first place. Like I have said already, it is not like China wasn't in Tibet back in 2001 when the games were awarded.
I totally support the protest. I don't think the athletes are the targets but it has drawn a TON of publicity to the Tibetan issue and it has been very embarassing to the Chinese who are trying to change their perception while they continue their human rights abuses.
I hope their role in the Darfur crisis also becomes highlighted as we get closer. I appreciate the olympics but this is a wonderful opportunity for the international community to stand up to China.
These athletes may think it's an honor to carry the torch, but I disagree with that this year. I would have nothing to do with the Olympics with what China has been/is doing. I support the protests, the torch bearers know what they're in for (if not, they must live under a rock or in China). While I don't support the bearers being attacked (or anyone being attacked), I agree with snuffing that stupid torch as much as possible, perhaps a few water guns would work? The Olympics barely resemble anything they were meant to be.
rock bands may come and rock bands may go...
but rock n roll will live forever! - ray davies
surely you understand why san francisco was picked to be the entry point for the torch into the US.
Funny, Vancouver was snubbed b/c the PM criticized China so China is also playing political games with the Olympics.
I support non-violent protest and do not agree with anyone stealing the torch or dousing it. I think it damages the credibility of those who have something to say and are bringing attention to a very important cause.
While I do sympathize with athletes who have trained very hard to get to the games, I sympathize more with those who are victimized by the policies and abuses of China.
Comments
I just think it is a sad commentary when the bigger of the 2 stories is about the fucking torch. That was the point.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't know if you had notice this but CNN is running the torch thing through out the stupid relay. Seems the protest is getting some news time.
The sad part is the people who thought it was a good idea to send the torch through San Fransisco. There has been a bunch of people on CNN saying how suprised they are to see protest like this in San Fransisco even local leaders are saying the same thing. James Carvile is the only one I watched who was not suprised, which is not really suprising.
Hello McFly!!! this is San Fransisco
~Ralph Waldo Emerson~
The Tie-Dye Lady is HOT!!!
I know... of ALL the fucking cities in the ENTIRE U.S.
...
The brilliant minds pick San Francisco. Then, wonder... why is it a mess.
Hail, Hail!!!
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/ap_on_re_as/torch_men_in_blue
So, I say, protest away.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
I totally see what you are saying. I just think that with all the people involved with the Beijing Olympics, the torch bearer is the last person you would want to protest. How about the Chinese government, the IOC members, the networks covering the olympics, or the major sponsors like coca-cola.
Which is totally unfair to the guy running the torch (especially when people try to put it out). Sure you get coverage, but it is a crappy way to do it. Like I said before, it would be like protesting the iraq war by starting a protest outside the home of a soldier who came back after losing his legs in combat. If someone did they could also use the injured soldier to draw attention to their cause.
Maybe he does know, but it is not like China is going is going to pull out of Tibet if some guy decides not to run with the torch. So if it was his lifelong dream why should people try to stop him. And the torch is being stopped when people are knocking it out of the runners hands and spraying them with fire extinguishers.
It's true, none of this is going to infuence Chinese policy, that's for the people of China to decide. But to draw attention to the casue in the US can only give them motivation.
This is bigger than some guys dream of running the olympic torch. Too bad for him.
No - they pretty much shut it down and it really makes me mad. I'm not in support of China or its policies, but these people are idiots for protesting the poor torch bearers.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think it was someone in the UK or France who got sprayed with the extinguisher. It is not awesome, it kind of sucks actually since the shit in those extinguishers is not really very good to be inhaling.
I don't look at it as being "too bad for the guy running the torch". The way I see it I don't think that an athlete or a torch bearer should have to bear the weight of this and lose out on their life long goals because some dumbass IOC member back in 2001 got better bribes from the Beijing Olympic bidding committee than they did from the Toronto committee. And lets be realistic, China didn't really have great human right back in 2001 so if people wanted to take a stand it should have been done then. To try and do something now is kind of a pointless gesture since it is not going to stop the Olympics and it not going to change anything with the Chinese government. Which is why I think making athletes and torch runners take responsibility for it, is a lot like expecting individual soldiers to take responsibility for a war that was started by government leaders.
I agree.
I also think a 'boycott' is a fucking joke. It punishes the athletes... I want Misty May and Kerri Walsh to get another chance at an Olympic win. Forcing Misty and Kerri to forfiet their aspirations and continuing to fund this Communist China with sleazy political deals and 'always lower prices, always'... is a fucking joke.
...
To me... the Olympic torch relay is about as newsworthy as Paris Hilton getting yet another traffic ticket.
Hail, Hail!!!
Sometimes sending a message is very meaningful even if it's doesn't change the outcome. Like the guy that stood in front of the Chinese tank...he didn't change the course of events that day but his voice was heard throughout the world and inspires still today. This may not be on the same level as Tank Man but it stems from the same fed up mentality. It's a symbolic form of protest.
http://ngishili.com/images/tank_china.jpg
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
nbc.
http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
Yeah, totally worthless how the protests have drawn the world's attention and put the head of the IOC is a position to urge China to come to a peaceful resolution in Tibet. And really worthless the way it has put pressure on Western governments to take a stand against China in some way over their blatant disregard for human rights.
I think these protests have mattered a lot and are at the very least preventing China from being able to causally sweep this all under the rug. And while this may suck for some of the athlete's or torch bearers, well, they still have their lives at least. Make no mistake, the Olympics and the politics behind it are bigger than the sports and athletes themselves. You can say how unfair that is, but it does not change the fact.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
Well, firstly, why would I insult you? Do I have a bad rep around these parts or something?
....There's a media black-out of the protests over here. I don't watch the news here - coz it's in a funny lingo - but I'm aware that the protests just aren't mentioned. And as far as the people changing the government...It's a difficult one. I'm certainly no expert on China. I just moved here. Although I can't see any change happening anytime soon. The people just have no access to information here, and if they protest in any way they get locked up. The government has a pretty tight screw on things as far as I can tell.
This is true. And personally, I couldn't give a shit about the torch bearers. I do feel sorry for the people of China though. I listened to a childrens English speech contest at the weekend, and nearly every one of them mentioned the olympics and how proud they were to be having it in China. I just think it would be a shame for them if the games were ruined by this thing. This event is for the people, not their fucked up government.
But even the IOC urging anyone to do anything it totally hypocritically lip service since they are the ones who gave Beijing the games in the first place. Like I have said already, it is not like China wasn't in Tibet back in 2001 when the games were awarded.
I hope their role in the Darfur crisis also becomes highlighted as we get closer. I appreciate the olympics but this is a wonderful opportunity for the international community to stand up to China.
yes. i have been. but not on the relay route. and i will continue to do so. peacefully.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
see above post.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
surely you understand why san francisco was picked to be the entry point for the torch into the US.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
but rock n roll will live forever! - ray davies
I support non-violent protest and do not agree with anyone stealing the torch or dousing it. I think it damages the credibility of those who have something to say and are bringing attention to a very important cause.
While I do sympathize with athletes who have trained very hard to get to the games, I sympathize more with those who are victimized by the policies and abuses of China.