Immigration

onelongsong

Kann wrote:

the point is when we (as western countries and the security council as a whole) stop infering with these countrie's politics and economies, they might start improving their life. Our countries actions, right now, are not helping the countries from where immigrants come. If we want to stop the flow, solve the problem at the source. And looking back, I doubt invasions would be a solution.

are you willing to pay for these new people coming into your country? if not they turn to crime. do you have enough food to feed them; or are you willing to take food from your own childrens mouths to feed them? can you afford to contribute more money to your government to keep your medical system in tact? socialized medicine doesn't mean doctors work for free and chemical companies give away free medicine. the government pays them and you pay the government.

onelongsong

RainDog wrote:

Ever heard of the phrase "mixed messages"? The wife putting up the No Trespassing sign while the husband invites them in?

Should we shut down all businesses that hire illegals? No fines - shut them down. It's at least comparible to deportation. Oh, and make sure those responsible are never allowed to open a business again. They relinquish that right when they break the law. Kinda the same as a deportee never being allowed back in the country. Hell, you talk about invading countries. Why not also burn down every building where an illegal has worked? Comparible. Where's that rage?

so we should tear down the economic structure of our country for a bunch of criminals? illegals are good for target practice. other than that they only drain the country.

caifan82

onelongsong wrote:

illegals are good for target practice. other than that they only drain the country.

Hahaha, and yet you call yourself a Christian. Nice.

RainDog

onelongsong wrote:

so we should tear down the economic structure of our country for a bunch of criminals? illegals are good for target practice. other than that they only drain the country.

It's that economic structure that's causing everything you're complaining about. But you like cheap stuff, so you're being selective about the kinds of criminals we should be prosecuting (or in your case, calling for their execution).

niner

RainDog wrote:

Ever heard of the phrase "mixed messages"? The wife putting up the No Trespassing sign while the husband invites them in?

Should we shut down all businesses that hire illegals? No fines - shut them down. It's at least comparible to deportation. Oh, and make sure those responsible are never allowed to open a business again. They relinquish that right when they break the law. Kinda the same as a deportee never being allowed back in the country. Hell, you talk about invading countries. Why not also burn down every building where an illegal has worked? Comparible. Where's that rage?

shutting down businesses would hurt OUR economy

the real rage is in the greed factor. we all have it. we want the best product at the best prices, or if you can afford $300 Lucky jeans they are made overseas for $20 Lucky keeps all the money.
greed...at the governments that rape their country and stave their people.
that will never change

hippiemom

niner wrote:

shutting down businesses would hurt OUR economy

the real rage is in the greed factor. we all have it. we want the best product at the best prices, or if you can afford $300 Lucky jeans they are made overseas for $20 Lucky keeps all the money.
greed...at the governments that rape their country and stave their people.
that will never change

Don't you suspect that if we actually did shut down a business or two, that other businesses would take notice and suddenly discover that, by golly, we really CAN identify the illegals after all! That is exactly what I think would happen.

If the people who are constantly up in arms about illegal immigration truly believe what they are saying ... that illegal immigrants are a threat to our economy, our national security, and our way of life ... then we should be treating them and everyone who helps them as though they are a threat to our security and our way of life. That means no slaps on the wrist, no $500 dollar fines for the people that hire them. Someone who is threatening the future of our nation should be dealt with in the harshest possible way ... REAL fines, long-term imprisonment, closing the businesss if they don't change their ways.

niner

hippiemom wrote:

Don't you suspect that if we actually did shut down a business or two, that other businesses would take notice and suddenly discover that, by golly, we really CAN identify the illegals after all! That is exactly what I think would happen.

If the people who are constantly up in arms about illegal immigration truly believe what they are saying ... that illegal immigrants are a threat to our economy, our national security, and our way of life ... then we should be treating them and everyone who helps them as though they are a threat to our security and our way of life. That means no slaps on the wrist, no $500 dollar fines for the people that hire them. Someone who is threatening the future of our nation should be dealt with in the harshest possible way ... REAL fines, long-term imprisonment, closing the businesss if they don't change their ways.

great point.
i guess it will hurt small business more instead of giant corporations who take it overseas.
in my city we have a no harrassment zone for illegal workers, so they kind of look the other way here. also in my newspaper 2 illegal workers are suing their employer for not paying them. free lawyers too.
hey, i got it maybe immigrates should pay to be here. like indentured servants. if it would guarantee them a spot here i bet they would do it.

onelongsong

hippiemom wrote:

Don't you suspect that if we actually did shut down a business or two, that other businesses would take notice and suddenly discover that, by golly, we really CAN identify the illegals after all! That is exactly what I think would happen.

If the people who are constantly up in arms about illegal immigration truly believe what they are saying ... that illegal immigrants are a threat to our economy, our national security, and our way of life ... then we should be treating them and everyone who helps them as though they are a threat to our security and our way of life. That means no slaps on the wrist, no $500 dollar fines for the people that hire them. Someone who is threatening the future of our nation should be dealt with in the harshest possible way ... REAL fines, long-term imprisonment, closing the businesss if they don't change their ways.

i; and the state of arizona agree with you. we voted in measures where; if an EMT gives aid to an illegal; the EMT is jailed. we have autherized presence laws and we are very strict about illegals. the problem is other states won't follow and thus the problem continues. the illegals simply go to a state that doesn't have such laws.

onelongsong

niner wrote:

great point.
i guess it will hurt small business more instead of giant corporations who take it overseas.
in my city we have a no harrassment zone for illegal workers, so they kind of look the other way here. also in my newspaper 2 illegal workers are suing their employer for not paying them. free lawyers too.
hey, i got it maybe immigrates should pay to be here. like indentured servants. if it would guarantee them a spot here i bet they would do it.

so your city is enabling them. your city is a part of the problem. yes; big corporations are sending work overseas and displacing workers. that means less jobs available in the us; yet we also have millions coming over the border. the end result is more people and less jobs. i don't know anyone whos quality of life has risen. one income families have become 2 income families and still struggle. people like me put their money in trusts and move it off-shore because we see the economic collapse coming. smart americans get their money out of the us because of the influx of poor. you can only put so many people in a boat before it sinks.

pjfanatic4

onelongsong wrote:

i; and the state of arizona agree with you. we voted in measures where; if an EMT gives aid to an illegal; the EMT is jailed. we have autherized presence laws and we are very strict about illegals. the problem is other states won't follow and thus the problem continues. the illegals simply go to a state that doesn't have such laws.

Wow. EMT as in paramedic? Is this true in the wonderful state of AZ? A state that was first Mexican before the Americans took it?

gue_barium

onelongsong wrote:

i; and the state of arizona agree with you. we voted in measures where; if an EMT gives aid to an illegal; the EMT is jailed. we have autherized presence laws and we are very strict about illegals. the problem is other states won't follow and thus the problem continues. the illegals simply go to a state that doesn't have such laws.

I still think legal immigration is by far the greater problem. Getting tough with poor people whether they be sneaky mexicans coming over the border, or the lowly EMT, is just a show. It's bullshit.

http://blkirk.myweb.uga.edu/webpage/pilgrim.jpeg

onelongsong

pjfanatic4 wrote:

Wow. EMT as in paramedic? Is this true in the wonderful state of AZ? A state that was first Mexican before the Americans took it?

arizona is a new state and we stand by the laws. about 10 years ago arizona threatened to succeed from the union because the federal government broke its contract by failing to protect our borders.
there was 1 proposition voted in 2000 and another in 2004. i'm not sure where to find them online but knowing the election years should help. if i have time i'll give it a look too.

pjfanatic4

josevolution wrote:

ONELONGSONG is correct that these countries gov are totally corrupt and don't give a crap about the impoverished mass they just cater to the rich and fuck the peasants .....that is why only the poor souls come here you don't see dr's ,lawyers coming here do we no ??

I guess you're not aware of the many professionals (i.e. college degree) people that work legally in the US. Just look at the faculty for any major engineering university and count how many of them were not born in the US.

gue_barium

onelongsong wrote:

arizona is a new state and we stand by the laws. about 10 years ago arizona threatened to succeed from the union because the federal government broke its contract by failing to protect our borders.
there was 1 proposition voted in 2000 and another in 2004. i'm not sure where to find them online but knowing the election years should help. if i have time i'll give it a look too.

secede?


http://blkirk.myweb.uga.edu/webpage/pilgrim.jpeg

pjfanatic4

onelongsong wrote:

arizona is a new state and we stand by the laws. about 10 years ago arizona threatened to succeed from the union because the federal government broke its contract by failing to protect our borders.
there was 1 proposition voted in 2000 and another in 2004. i'm not sure where to find them online but knowing the election years should help. if i have time i'll give it a look too.

No, you don't have to look for them. I'll take your word.

I understand your frustration about having to deal with this problem, but I think you are trying to treat the symptoms and not the cause of the problem. The US is a major cause of the immigration problem, by pushing for economic superiority, and keeping a growing economy, in created the voids that need to be filled.

I think you are not 100% correct with the unemployment issue. And I believe that the illegal immigrant labor pays back more than you think, via economic viability of the industries they serve, for part of their share in infrastructure and services. If you look at pro-immigration data, they point a whole different picture. I'm not saying their right, but it is not a drain as the anti-immigration sites tend to report.

josevolution

pjfanatic4 wrote:

I guess you're not aware of the many professionals (i.e. college degree) people that work legally in the US. Just look at the faculty for any major engineering university and count how many of them were not born in the US.

yes i know that but i'm saying succesfull lawyers, dr's, that live across the borders they mainly stay in their countries they have no need to leave they have good lives there ....wtf ??

pjfanatic4

josevolution wrote:

yes i know that but i'm saying succesfull lawyers, dr's, that live across the borders they mainly stay in their countries they have no need to leave they have good lives there ....wtf ??

No, they definitely don't have the incentive. But on the other hand, a lot of researchers do move to the US because here is where the money is. It isn't all one sided.

josevolution

pjfanatic4 wrote:

No, they definitely don't have the incentive. But on the other hand, a lot of researchers do move to the US because here is where the money is. It isn't all one sided.

it's the same where i was born CHILE when ever i go there the only one's that wan't to come here are the poor, not the well off my fathers side of the family has a few very well off profesionals they live very well they have no intentions of ever moving here ...

onelongsong

pjfanatic4 wrote:

Wow. EMT as in paramedic? Is this true in the wonderful state of AZ? A state that was first Mexican before the Americans took it?

http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2004/dec04/prop200.pdf

http://phoenix.about.com/b/a/257362.htm

http://phoenix.about.com/b/a/257373.htm

http://phoenix.about.com/b/a/257369.htm

here's a few of our anti-illegal alien laws. this includes english as our official language which includes all schools must teach in english only; aliens arrested cannot receive bail; illegals cannot obtain any public services; and the like.

hippiemom

onelongsong wrote:

i; and the state of arizona agree with you. we voted in measures where; if an EMT gives aid to an illegal; the EMT is jailed. we have autherized presence laws and we are very strict about illegals. the problem is other states won't follow and thus the problem continues. the illegals simply go to a state that doesn't have such laws.

Jailing someone for saving a life is just sick.