I kinda feel the same way. I understand that as a rich country we have an obligation to help the less fortunate, but we have limited natural resources (well, limited water anyway). Its seems pretty apparent to me that we are already pushing our water resorces to the very limit with our current population. That's why I can never understand the constant promotion of incentives for women to have more babies etc. Why do we need population growth? To encourage further economic growth? Why do we need economic growth? Isn't economic stability enough? Immigration just adds even more pressure.
And I'd agree with you. I do however think that we need to be able to help people in crisis. And if that means finding a safe place for them to live for a while so be it. BUT I also think that we should be helping to ensure that people aren't needing to leave their homes to seek refuge in the first place.
I would have no problem with immigration, or economic growth if it was true economic growth. But if we don't find solutions to our current environmental problems and we do nothing to help our neighbours to sustain themselves, then I don't see that it is true economic growth. It's just a false economy and sooner or later the shit is gonna hit the fan.
sorry i'm a anti capitalist i know nothing about economics
Hmm. Don't know how sarcastic you're being. . .
Isn't that kind of like being an anti-Darwinist who know's nothing about biology?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Let's say I break into your house
>
> A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials
> In ages!!! It explains things better than all
> The baloney you hear on TV.
>
> Her point:
>
> Recently large demonstrations have taken place
> Across the country protesting the fact that Congress
> Is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
>
> Certain people are angry that
> The US might protect its own
> Borders, might make it harder
> To sneak into this country and,
> Once here, to stay indefinitely.
>
> Let me see if I correctly understand
> The thinking behind these protests.
> Let's say I break into your house.
> Let's say that when you discover
> Me in your house, you insist that I leave.
>
> But I say, "I've made all
> The beds and washed the
> Dishes and did the laundry
> And swept the floors. I've
> Done all the things you don't
> Like to do. I'm hard-working
> And honest
> (except for when I broke into your house) .
>
> According to the protesters:
>
> You are Required to let me stay in your house
> You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
> You are Required to Educate my kids
> You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
>
> (my husband will do all of your yard work because
> He is also hard-working and honest, except for that
> Breaking in part).
>
> If you try to call the police or force me out,
> I will call my friends who will picket your
> House carrying signs that proclaim my
> RIGHT to be there.
>
>
> It's only fair, after all, because you have
> A nicer house than I do, and I'm just
> Trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working
> And honest, person, except for well,
> You know, I did break into your house
>
> And what a deal it is for me!!!
>
> I live in your house, contributing only a
> Fraction of the cost of my keep, and
> There is nothing you can do about it
> Without being accused of cold,
> Uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
> Bigoted behavior.
>
> Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn
> MY LANGUAGE!!! So you can
> Communicate with me.
>
> Why can't people see how ridiculous
> This is?! Only in America .
> If you agree, pass it on (in English ).
> Share it if you see the value of it.
>
> If not blow it off.........
> Along with your future Social Security funds and a lot of other things.
...
Fuckin' Aye! I HOPE someone breaks into my house, does my laundry, cleans out the catbox, vaccuums up the cat hair, cooks the food, does the dishes, cleans the toilet (sometimes my aim is terrible), washes the windows, washes the car, goes to the grocery store, tosses out the stuff in the fridge that has been there since 1998, takes down the Christmas Tree and picks up my underwear from the living room. I'll learn fucking Swazziland dilect of Guatemala and send their kids to school for that.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
onelongsong I do like the analogy but it fails to mention a very important component in the immigration problem, the companies that hire them. The reason they come here is because they know they will find work. Everyone is so focused on punishing the illegals for breaking the law but they glance over the US companies that are breaking the law as well.
i've personally addressed several governors about this same issue. the businesses claim they cannot identify who is illegal yet an immigration bus can pull up to the business and identify dozens of illegals.
i pushed for stiff fines for businesses that hire illegals but that was shot down.
Surely we have to focus on the big issue here, and that is that people are having to leave their country of birth and their families in search of a better life somewhere else.
I simply cannot imagine having to do that. And I hope that we are always lucky here in Australia and I won't have to.
What needs to happen is we need to look at what it is that is happening in the world that is making these countries uninhabitable for people so that they are willing to risk everything in order to seek refugee status elsewhere.
Simply detaining them or complaining about them once they get here is just poor management in my opinion.
you're kidding right? everyone is up in arms because we're in iraq trying to help a people and now you say we're suppose to be responsable for the world population. if it's wrong to help one people then it's wrong to help any of them.
you're kidding right? everyone is up in arms because we're in iraq trying to help a people and now you say we're suppose to be responsable for the world population. if it's wrong to help one people then it's wrong to help any of them.
I don't really think helping people in Iraq and helping to improve some populations lives is comparable. In europe we have to deal with immigration from Africa. Life in some african countries is rendered almost impossible due to diverging interest from manipulative countries (France for western african countries, China in eastern and so on), stripping these countries from natural resources and allowing dictatorship and corruption to flourish. As a result you have oppressed populations who have the choice of either dying from hunger, lack of medicine, getting killed in genocidal wars or fleeing to a hopefully better life in europe.
The goal here is not for western countries to invade africa and resolve these problems by force but to help african countries to develop their agriculture and natural resources and, at the very least, to allow that continent to have access to low cost drugs.
The new studies on global warming show that, once again, Africa will suffer the most of the effects and won't help much the situation there. They predict massive immigration flows, so in the best interests of both sides (europe and africa) the solution proposed by Jeanie seems the most logical.
Let's say I break into your house
>
> A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials
> In ages!!! It explains things better than all
> The baloney you hear on TV.
>
> Her point:
>
> Recently large demonstrations have taken place
> Across the country protesting the fact that Congress
> Is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.
>
> Certain people are angry that
> The US might protect its own
> Borders, might make it harder
> To sneak into this country and,
> Once here, to stay indefinitely.
>
> Let me see if I correctly understand
> The thinking behind these protests.
> Let's say I break into your house.
> Let's say that when you discover
> Me in your house, you insist that I leave.
>
> But I say, "I've made all
> The beds and washed the
> Dishes and did the laundry
> And swept the floors. I've
> Done all the things you don't
> Like to do. I'm hard-working
> And honest
> (except for when I broke into your house) .
>
> According to the protesters:
>
> You are Required to let me stay in your house
> You are Required to add me to your family's insurance plan
> You are Required to Educate my kids
> You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
>
> (my husband will do all of your yard work because
> He is also hard-working and honest, except for that
> Breaking in part).
>
> If you try to call the police or force me out,
> I will call my friends who will picket your
> House carrying signs that proclaim my
> RIGHT to be there.
>
>
> It's only fair, after all, because you have
> A nicer house than I do, and I'm just
> Trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working
> And honest, person, except for well,
> You know, I did break into your house
>
> And what a deal it is for me!!!
>
> I live in your house, contributing only a
> Fraction of the cost of my keep, and
> There is nothing you can do about it
> Without being accused of cold,
> Uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
> Bigoted behavior.
>
> Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn
> MY LANGUAGE!!! So you can
> Communicate with me.
>
> Why can't people see how ridiculous
> This is?! Only in America .
> If you agree, pass it on (in English ).
> Share it if you see the value of it.
>
> If not blow it off.........
> Along with your future Social Security funds and a lot of other things.
I haven't read this thread all the way through, but I wanted to comment on a few things in terms of this analogy.
Here is what the "lady" fails to mention.
1. Her husband invited this person into her home with the promise of a wage.
2. No one is really asking her to learn Spanish - she'd probably just one of those lazy ass people who for some reason or another feels it's beneath her to push the number "1" when calling an automated service number or standing in front of the ATM.
3. I'd say that the subject of the chain-mail would have every right to be pissed if, after being invited in by the husband, the wife demands she be beaten out the front door. Likely she'd call up some of her friends.
4. The "fraction of the cost" mentioned is in regards to the actual money contributed and not the overall benefit of the labor.
5. No, the author of this chain-mail does not understand these protests. Instead, she can only relate to what she can see - and she can see these protests. What she can't seem to make out, and it is the most important detail here, is that it's really her husband she should blame if she's so upset over the maid he hired. But she doesn't want to approach that detail, because too much scrutiny would likely show her that the husband is giving the maid a bit more than just "payment" - if you know what I mean. Best to stay in denial, blame the maid for being there, have her beaten and ejected from the home, and then start the whole thing over again when her husband goes out and hires another one.
I kinda feel the same way. I understand that as a rich country we have an obligation to help the less fortunate, but we have limited natural resources (well, limited water anyway). Its seems pretty apparent to me that we are already pushing our water resorces to the very limit with our current population. That's why I can never understand the constant promotion of incentives for women to have more babies etc. Why do we need population growth? To encourage further economic growth? Why do we need economic growth? Isn't economic stability enough? Immigration just adds even more pressure.
ahh; a voice of reason. it's the same in the us. the southwest doesn't have the water to support it's population. if you look at satellite photos of the midwest; there's a basin forming. the land is sinking due to all the water removed from the earth. unemployment is soring while millions cross the border for jobs. kids join gangs and run drugs because that's the only jobs they can find. i could go on and on but you get the point.
I haven't read this thread all the way through, but I wanted to comment on a few things in terms of this analogy.
Here is what the "lady" fails to mention.
1. Her husband invited this person into her home with the promise of a wage.
2. No one is really asking her to learn Spanish - she'd probably just one of those lazy ass people who for some reason or another feels it's beneath her to push the number "1" when calling an automated service number or standing in front of the ATM.
3. I'd say that the subject of the chain-mail would have every right to be pissed if, after being invited in by the husband, the wife demands she be beaten out the front door. Likely she'd call up some of her friends.
4. The "fraction of the cost" mentioned is in regards to the actual money contributed and not the overall benefit of the labor.
5. No, the author of this chain-mail does not understand these protests. Instead, she can only relate to what she can see - and she can see these protests. What she can't seem to make out, and it is the most important detail here, is that it's really her husband she should blame if she's so upset over the maid he hired. But she doesn't want to approach that detail, because too much scrutiny would likely show her that the husband is giving the maid a bit more than just "payment" - if you know what I mean. Best to stay in denial, blame the maid for being there, have her beaten and ejected from the home, and then start the whole thing over again when her husband goes out and hires another one.
INVITED? we have fences and armed border guards saying YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. are the mexican people that stupid that they can't figure that out? you fail to mention the displaced american workers; and the strain it puts on society. most of the world learns english as a second language. are the mexican people not intelligent enough to learn the language of the country they are invading?
I don't really think helping people in Iraq and helping to improve some populations lives is comparable. In europe we have to deal with immigration from Africa. Life in some african countries is rendered almost impossible due to diverging interest from manipulative countries (France for western african countries, China in eastern and so on), stripping these countries from natural resources and allowing dictatorship and corruption to flourish. As a result you have oppressed populations who have the choice of either dying from hunger, lack of medicine, getting killed in genocidal wars or fleeing to a hopefully better life in europe.
The goal here is not for western countries to invade africa and resolve these problems by force but to help african countries to develop their agriculture and natural resources and, at the very least, to allow that continent to have access to low cost drugs.
The new studies on global warming show that, once again, Africa will suffer the most of the effects and won't help much the situation there. They predict massive immigration flows, so in the best interests of both sides (europe and africa) the solution proposed by Jeanie seems the most logical.
our iraqi population is increadable. all here due to oppression. helping them establish a free country will allow them to return as many have vowed to do.
i see your point though. but i don't think you're seeing mine. why should you; and your country become a poor third world country because others flock to your door? europe is in bigger danger because you have limited land and resourses. do you have such a surplus of jobs that you can support all these new people? can your government afford to feed all these people and can you personally afford the tax increases YOU will have to pay? can your socialized medical program survive with this influx of people? it's no longer a matter of helping people. there are ramifications the average person doesn't think about.
so the answers are what everyone has an opinion on this problem but really no logical solutions ,i consider my self an imigrant arrived here in 71" by no choice my father was here first and he worked in factory's for $1 to $1.75 an hour i still can't comprehend how he managed to bring the rest of us here, my whole family are citizens of this great country at least in my opinion. But now the immigration problem has grown to incontrollable proportions with no answers in sight i feel bad for all these people who have no choice but to leave their place of birth ,the goverments of all these countries that have all these people leaving should be the one's to help in this matter they should be held accountable.. my 2c ...
INVITED? we have fences and armed border guards saying YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. are the mexican people that stupid that they can't figure that out? you fail to mention the displaced american workers; and the strain it puts on society. most of the world learns english as a second language. are the mexican people not intelligent enough to learn the language of the country they are invading?
I think by invited he means what you addressed a couple of posts earlier, businesses hiring them. I could be wrong, of course.
If people can get by with limited knowledge of English, they won't spend their time and money to learn it more thoroughly. It's called fossilization.
INVITED? we have fences and armed border guards saying YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. are the mexican people that stupid that they can't figure that out? you fail to mention the displaced american workers; and the strain it puts on society. most of the world learns english as a second language. are the mexican people not intelligent enough to learn the language of the country they are invading?
The wife may have put up a No Trespassing sign, but that doesn't mean the husband didn't invite the maid in. Just using your analogy, after all.
so the answers are what everyone has an opinion on this problem but really no logical solutions ,i consider my self an imigrant arrived here in 71" by no choice my father was here first and he worked in factory's for $1 to $1.75 an hour i still can't comprehend how he managed to bring the rest of us here, my whole family are citizens of this great country at least in my opinion. But now the immigration problem has grown to incontrollable proportions with no answers in sight i feel bad for all these people who have no choice but to leave their place of birth ,the goverments of all these countries that have all these people leaving should be the one's to help in this matter they should be held accountable.. my 2c ...
and i agree with you. my solution is to invade mexico and take control of the government. mexico has great wealth in oil and gold but it's the government pocketing that money and leaving the country to rot. if the mexican people are not strong enough to right this wrong; and feel they must turn tail and run; then we must intercede or lose control in our own country.
I think by invited he means what you addressed a couple of posts earlier, businesses hiring them. I could be wrong, of course.
If people can get by with limited knowledge of English, they won't spend their time and money to learn it more thoroughly. It's called fossilization.
i think that's a bs excuse. they're too scared or lazy to fight for their own independence so they come to suckle the teats of people who have. there's a right way and a wrong way of doing anything. if you do it the right way; i welcome you.
The goal here is not for western countries to invade africa and resolve these problems by force but to help african countries to develop their agriculture and natural resources and, at the very least, to allow that continent to have access to low cost drugs.
That goal sounds nice on paper. The reality is that globalization activities, and poor countries following IMF's "recommendations" has not proven to help the economies of poor countries, but to make them more dependable on the economic powers.
The immigration problem in the US has to be viewed along with NAFTA. It has not "developed" Mexico, it has made it more dependant on cheap labor. As long as that major gap in earning potential is reduced. Immigration will not be stopped.
i think that's a bs excuse. they're too scared or lazy to fight for their own independence so they come to suckle the teats of people who have. there's a right way and a wrong way of doing anything. if you do it the right way; i welcome you.
You fought for our independence? Damn, dude, you're older than I thought.
If this is as much of an issue to you as you portend, you need to stop getting pissed at the people who come over here and start getting pissed at the people who invite them. But you're too scared or lazy to take on the real problem - U.S. businesses who supply you with all your favorite cheap stuff. Instead, you point and scream at easiest target you can find - the people you can pick out of a crowd.
i think that's a bs excuse. they're too scared or lazy to fight for their own independence so they come to suckle the teats of people who have. there's a right way and a wrong way of doing anything. if you do it the right way; i welcome you.
and i agree with you. my solution is to invade mexico and take control of the government. mexico has great wealth in oil and gold but it's the government pocketing that money and leaving the country to rot. if the mexican people are not strong enough to right this wrong; and feel they must turn tail and run; then we must intercede or lose control in our own country.
Your solution is to invade Mexico?? Are you serious?? Why would that solve anything? You would have to keep going south through Belize, Guatemala, and on on until you you make a modern Roman Empire.... that's ludicrous.
It is a very complicated problem, but as long as the minimum hourly wage in the US is over the DAILY minimum wage in Mexico, there will always be an incentive to migrate. The solution lies in closing that gap, by mutual cooperation of the economies (a thing NAFTA has worsened, not helped). Remove the incentive, and Mexicans will be glad to stay put in Mexico. Believe me, most of them would relocate if they could earn there what they do here.
ONELONGSONG is correct that these countries gov are totally corrupt and don't give a crap about the impoverished mass they just cater to the rich and fuck the peasants .....that is why only the poor souls come here you don't see dr's ,lawyers coming here do we no ??
Your solution is to invade Mexico?? Are you serious?? Why would that solve anything? You would have to keep going south through Belize, Guatemala, and on on until you you make a modern Roman Empire.... that's ludicrous.
It is a very complicated problem, but as long as the minimum hourly wage in the US is over the DAILY minimum wage in Mexico, there will always be an incentive to migrate. The solution lies in closing that gap, by mutual cooperation of the economies (a thing NAFTA has worsened, not helped). Remove the incentive, and Mexicans will be glad to stay put in Mexico. Believe me, most of them would relocate if they could earn there what they do here.
it would solve the problem because with mexico's wealth; we could handle the influx of people. with the number of mexicans crossing the border; it is; by all deffinitions; an invasion. according to the rules of war. building a wall on mexicos southern border would be much easier than building a wall along the mexican/us border.
and why not build a modern roman empire? if everyone wants to come here; let's make it easy for them. we'll bring the us there.
it would solve the problem because with mexico's wealth; we could handle the influx of people. with the number of mexicans crossing the border; it is; by all deffinitions; an invasion. according to the rules of war. building a wall on mexicos southern border would be much easier than building a wall along the mexican/us border.
and why not build a modern roman empire? if everyone wants to come here; let's make it easy for them. we'll bring the us there.
Still no rage for those who are inviting them? And I mean real rage for the real problem.
ONELONGSONG is correct that these countries gov are totally corrupt and don't give a crap about the impoverished mass they just cater to the rich and fuck the peasants .....that is why only the poor souls come here you don't see dr's ,lawyers coming here do we no ??
and that's the point. i have nothing against the people; it's the governments fault. kann mentioned africa. a continent rich in gold and diamonds. so rich that the people should be able to wipe their asses with gold leaf. the middle east is so rich in oil they should be able to hire someone to wipe their asses for them. yet the people in these countries are poor and starving. and the american government lets them come here ruining the quality of life for its citizens.
and why not build a modern roman empire? if everyone wants to come here; let's make it easy for them. we'll bring the us there.
The Roman empire collapsed - largely as a result of not being able to keep control of all their conquered territory. But we'd be different, though. I mean, look at how invasion improved the lives of the Iraqis. They love us now.
and that's the point. i have nothing against the people; it's the governments fault. kann mentioned africa. a continent rich in gold and diamonds. so rich that the people should be able to wipe their asses with gold leaf. the middle east is so rich in oil they should be able to hire someone to wipe their asses for them. yet the people in these countries are poor and starving. and the american government lets them come here ruining the quality of life for its citizens.
the point is when we (as western countries and the security council as a whole) stop infering with these countrie's politics and economies, they might start improving their life. Our countries actions, right now, are not helping the countries from where immigrants come. If we want to stop the flow, solve the problem at the source. And looking back, I doubt invasions would be a solution.
and that's the point. i have nothing against the people; it's the governments fault.
Which government? And, hell, is government the only controlling factor here? What about those that invite the illegals over? I know they're harder to point out of a crowd and all, but still.
Still no rage for those who are inviting them? And I mean real rage for the real problem.
i've been fighting for high fines and possible jail terms for businesses that hire illegals.
please explain how the laws against hiring illegals is an invitation. we have laws against crossing the border. we have laws against hiring illegals too. in arizona it is illegal to give aid to an illegal. i don't think that's an invitation at all.
i've been fighting for high fines and possible jail terms for businesses that hire illegals.
please explain how the laws against hiring illegals is an invitation. we have laws against crossing the border. we have laws against hiring illegals too. in arizona it is illegal to give aid to an illegal. i don't think that's an invitation at all.
Ever heard of the phrase "mixed messages"? The wife putting up the No Trespassing sign while the husband invites them in?
Should we shut down all businesses that hire illegals? No fines - shut them down. It's at least comparible to deportation. Oh, and make sure those responsible are never allowed to open a business again. They relinquish that right when they break the law. Kinda the same as a deportee never being allowed back in the country. Hell, you talk about invading countries. Why not also burn down every building where an illegal has worked? Comparible. Where's that rage?
Comments
And I'd agree with you. I do however think that we need to be able to help people in crisis. And if that means finding a safe place for them to live for a while so be it. BUT I also think that we should be helping to ensure that people aren't needing to leave their homes to seek refuge in the first place.
I would have no problem with immigration, or economic growth if it was true economic growth. But if we don't find solutions to our current environmental problems and we do nothing to help our neighbours to sustain themselves, then I don't see that it is true economic growth. It's just a false economy and sooner or later the shit is gonna hit the fan.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
So true cate! Wish it was the case that the people had more control. Seems that the government is forcing us into a situation just like this. :eek:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Hmm. Don't know how sarcastic you're being. . .
Isn't that kind of like being an anti-Darwinist who know's nothing about biology?
-C Addison
Fuckin' Aye! I HOPE someone breaks into my house, does my laundry, cleans out the catbox, vaccuums up the cat hair, cooks the food, does the dishes, cleans the toilet (sometimes my aim is terrible), washes the windows, washes the car, goes to the grocery store, tosses out the stuff in the fridge that has been there since 1998, takes down the Christmas Tree and picks up my underwear from the living room. I'll learn fucking Swazziland dilect of Guatemala and send their kids to school for that.
Hail, Hail!!!
i've personally addressed several governors about this same issue. the businesses claim they cannot identify who is illegal yet an immigration bus can pull up to the business and identify dozens of illegals.
i pushed for stiff fines for businesses that hire illegals but that was shot down.
you're kidding right? everyone is up in arms because we're in iraq trying to help a people and now you say we're suppose to be responsable for the world population. if it's wrong to help one people then it's wrong to help any of them.
I don't really think helping people in Iraq and helping to improve some populations lives is comparable. In europe we have to deal with immigration from Africa. Life in some african countries is rendered almost impossible due to diverging interest from manipulative countries (France for western african countries, China in eastern and so on), stripping these countries from natural resources and allowing dictatorship and corruption to flourish. As a result you have oppressed populations who have the choice of either dying from hunger, lack of medicine, getting killed in genocidal wars or fleeing to a hopefully better life in europe.
The goal here is not for western countries to invade africa and resolve these problems by force but to help african countries to develop their agriculture and natural resources and, at the very least, to allow that continent to have access to low cost drugs.
The new studies on global warming show that, once again, Africa will suffer the most of the effects and won't help much the situation there. They predict massive immigration flows, so in the best interests of both sides (europe and africa) the solution proposed by Jeanie seems the most logical.
I haven't read this thread all the way through, but I wanted to comment on a few things in terms of this analogy.
Here is what the "lady" fails to mention.
1. Her husband invited this person into her home with the promise of a wage.
2. No one is really asking her to learn Spanish - she'd probably just one of those lazy ass people who for some reason or another feels it's beneath her to push the number "1" when calling an automated service number or standing in front of the ATM.
3. I'd say that the subject of the chain-mail would have every right to be pissed if, after being invited in by the husband, the wife demands she be beaten out the front door. Likely she'd call up some of her friends.
4. The "fraction of the cost" mentioned is in regards to the actual money contributed and not the overall benefit of the labor.
5. No, the author of this chain-mail does not understand these protests. Instead, she can only relate to what she can see - and she can see these protests. What she can't seem to make out, and it is the most important detail here, is that it's really her husband she should blame if she's so upset over the maid he hired. But she doesn't want to approach that detail, because too much scrutiny would likely show her that the husband is giving the maid a bit more than just "payment" - if you know what I mean. Best to stay in denial, blame the maid for being there, have her beaten and ejected from the home, and then start the whole thing over again when her husband goes out and hires another one.
ahh; a voice of reason. it's the same in the us. the southwest doesn't have the water to support it's population. if you look at satellite photos of the midwest; there's a basin forming. the land is sinking due to all the water removed from the earth. unemployment is soring while millions cross the border for jobs. kids join gangs and run drugs because that's the only jobs they can find. i could go on and on but you get the point.
INVITED? we have fences and armed border guards saying YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE. are the mexican people that stupid that they can't figure that out? you fail to mention the displaced american workers; and the strain it puts on society. most of the world learns english as a second language. are the mexican people not intelligent enough to learn the language of the country they are invading?
our iraqi population is increadable. all here due to oppression. helping them establish a free country will allow them to return as many have vowed to do.
i see your point though. but i don't think you're seeing mine. why should you; and your country become a poor third world country because others flock to your door? europe is in bigger danger because you have limited land and resourses. do you have such a surplus of jobs that you can support all these new people? can your government afford to feed all these people and can you personally afford the tax increases YOU will have to pay? can your socialized medical program survive with this influx of people? it's no longer a matter of helping people. there are ramifications the average person doesn't think about.
I think by invited he means what you addressed a couple of posts earlier, businesses hiring them. I could be wrong, of course.
If people can get by with limited knowledge of English, they won't spend their time and money to learn it more thoroughly. It's called fossilization.
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and i agree with you. my solution is to invade mexico and take control of the government. mexico has great wealth in oil and gold but it's the government pocketing that money and leaving the country to rot. if the mexican people are not strong enough to right this wrong; and feel they must turn tail and run; then we must intercede or lose control in our own country.
i think that's a bs excuse. they're too scared or lazy to fight for their own independence so they come to suckle the teats of people who have. there's a right way and a wrong way of doing anything. if you do it the right way; i welcome you.
That goal sounds nice on paper. The reality is that globalization activities, and poor countries following IMF's "recommendations" has not proven to help the economies of poor countries, but to make them more dependable on the economic powers.
The immigration problem in the US has to be viewed along with NAFTA. It has not "developed" Mexico, it has made it more dependant on cheap labor. As long as that major gap in earning potential is reduced. Immigration will not be stopped.
I thought unemployment is not a problem these days in the US. In fact, I recollect reading not long ago that it was at a low level.
The fact is that while there is work to be done in the US to keep the economic engine going, there will be immigrants looking to fill the void.
If this is as much of an issue to you as you portend, you need to stop getting pissed at the people who come over here and start getting pissed at the people who invite them. But you're too scared or lazy to take on the real problem - U.S. businesses who supply you with all your favorite cheap stuff. Instead, you point and scream at easiest target you can find - the people you can pick out of a crowd.
I'm not saying they're right. Or wrong.
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Your solution is to invade Mexico?? Are you serious?? Why would that solve anything? You would have to keep going south through Belize, Guatemala, and on on until you you make a modern Roman Empire.... that's ludicrous.
It is a very complicated problem, but as long as the minimum hourly wage in the US is over the DAILY minimum wage in Mexico, there will always be an incentive to migrate. The solution lies in closing that gap, by mutual cooperation of the economies (a thing NAFTA has worsened, not helped). Remove the incentive, and Mexicans will be glad to stay put in Mexico. Believe me, most of them would relocate if they could earn there what they do here.
it would solve the problem because with mexico's wealth; we could handle the influx of people. with the number of mexicans crossing the border; it is; by all deffinitions; an invasion. according to the rules of war. building a wall on mexicos southern border would be much easier than building a wall along the mexican/us border.
and why not build a modern roman empire? if everyone wants to come here; let's make it easy for them. we'll bring the us there.
and that's the point. i have nothing against the people; it's the governments fault. kann mentioned africa. a continent rich in gold and diamonds. so rich that the people should be able to wipe their asses with gold leaf. the middle east is so rich in oil they should be able to hire someone to wipe their asses for them. yet the people in these countries are poor and starving. and the american government lets them come here ruining the quality of life for its citizens.
the point is when we (as western countries and the security council as a whole) stop infering with these countrie's politics and economies, they might start improving their life. Our countries actions, right now, are not helping the countries from where immigrants come. If we want to stop the flow, solve the problem at the source. And looking back, I doubt invasions would be a solution.
i've been fighting for high fines and possible jail terms for businesses that hire illegals.
please explain how the laws against hiring illegals is an invitation. we have laws against crossing the border. we have laws against hiring illegals too. in arizona it is illegal to give aid to an illegal. i don't think that's an invitation at all.
Should we shut down all businesses that hire illegals? No fines - shut them down. It's at least comparible to deportation. Oh, and make sure those responsible are never allowed to open a business again. They relinquish that right when they break the law. Kinda the same as a deportee never being allowed back in the country. Hell, you talk about invading countries. Why not also burn down every building where an illegal has worked? Comparible. Where's that rage?