Pearl Jam and Ron Paul??

farfromglorified

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

There still is a choice involved

Of course there is a choice involved (for me at least, not the employees). But it's just a choice between compliance or punishment. There is a "choice involved" in slave labor too. Does that mean slave labor is not a violation of a man or woman's freedom?

Abookamongstthemany

farfromglorified wrote:

Of course there is a choice involved (for me at least, not the employees). But it's just a choice between compliance or punishment. There is a "choice involved" in slave labor too. Does that mean slave labor is not a violation of a man or woman's freedom?

Starvation would be the other choice there.

angelica

mammasan wrote:

I agree but we are the ones responsible for creating the environment that exists today in Washington. If the public was able to pull themselvesd away from American Idol and Survivor for more than 5 minutes and actually paid a little more attention to the people we elect we could improve the situation in our nation's capital. Then people of principle, like Kucinish and Paul, wouldn't be such a rarity in politics.

So the fact is that the American public are exactly who and where they are. And for perfect reasons in the system. And therefore Paul and Kucinich remain such rarities.

I understand there is potential to be different, but we're talking of what exists right now.

mammasan

angelica wrote:

So the fact is that the American public are exactly who and where they are. And for perfect reasons in the system. And therefore Paul and Kucinich remain such rarities.

I understand there is potential to be different, but we're talking of what exists right now.

If you are talking in the confines of what exists now then yes Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are exceptional compared to their fellow congressmen/women and senators.

farfromglorified

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Starvation would be the other choice there.

"There" meaning in slave labor? Sure, starvation would certainly be one potential choice there. As would simply refusing to labor and accepting whatever violence your slavemaster decided to inflict.

People have lots of "choices" in the face of violent oppression. But the existence of those choices does not erase the fundamental flaws and contradictions that violent oppression is based upon in the first place. To implement systems of coersion and pretend that the ends are "willing" is to setup a giant contradiction. If people were actually willing to do these things, you wouldn't need the coersion.

Abookamongstthemany

farfromglorified wrote:

"There" meaning in slave labor? Sure, starvation would certainly be one potential choice there. As would simply refusing to labor and accepting whatever violence your slavemaster decided to inflict.

People have lots of "choices" in the face of violent oppression. But the existence of those choices does not erase the fundamental flaws and contradictions that violent oppression is based upon in the first place. To implement systems of coersion and pretend that the ends are "willing" is to setup a giant contradiction.

To implement a system with no protection/regulation also creates oppression and is full of flaws while pretending the ones choicing to work these 'slave wage' jobs have a whole lot of 'choices' in the matter.

angelica

mammasan wrote:

If you are talking in the confines of what exists now then yes Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are exceptional compared to their fellow congressmen/women and senators.

I notice you slipped Ron Paul in there too. And I can't really obect much.....yet.

mammasan

angelica wrote:

I notice you slipped Ron Paul in there too. And I can't really obect much.....yet.

Well he is a man who has stuck to his principles.

farfromglorified

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

To implement a system with no protection/regulation also creates oppression and is full of flaws while pretending the ones choicing to work these 'slave wage' jobs have a whole lot of 'choices' in the matter.

To implement a system with no protection or regulation does not "create oppression". It certainly might, however, allow oppressive forces to take hold of society. And people everywhere should and have every right to stand up against oppressive forces. If, however, they simply establish their own, their moral highground becomes nothing but a fetid swamp.

angelica

mammasan wrote:

Well he is a man who has stuck to his principles.

Fair enough. I really just don't know that much about the guy. Except he seems to have "good vibes".