So, irrespective of the people's votes, are you saying to remain in politics for 30 years and to remain true to your integrity is not exceptional?
What I am saying is that there are people of integrity and principle, like Kucinich and Ron Paul, who have run for office but are not elected. We could have a government with a larger amount of people like these two Congressman if we actually started giving a shit about the people we elect. These two men are not exceptional they are merely better than the rest if the crap holding office right now.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I have seen more than one good, decent person turn into a shitty politician as they climbed the ladder of political success. It is incredibly difficult to maintain your integrity in the system as it exists today. I think that Kucinich has definitely done it, and although I know much less about Ron Paul, that he may very well have done it too. And I do think it's a marvel.
I still can't get over that Kucinich has done it. Or that it's even possible. It certainly renews my faith in the potential of the system and actually, the system, itself, as is, which is a BIG thing. And I haven't disagreed much, if at all with Ron Paul, either. Although, like you, I know much less about him.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
What I am saying is that there are people of integrity and principle, like Kucinich and Ron Paul, who have run for office but are not elected. We could have a government with a larger amount of people like these two Congressman if we actually started giving a shit about the people we elect. These two men are not exceptional they are merely better than the rest if the crap holding office right now.
I believe that absolutely everything that ever happens is for a reason. I therefore believe that while it might not seem fair that all kinds of individuals with integrity did not "make it", I believe it's been for it's perfect reasons within the system. So, when someone not only makes it through those early stages, and further progresses throughout numerous years of hard work AND maintains their integrity, which is at a high level, I'm really quite absolutely MARVEL-ed. I just did not think it was possible at this point in time, really.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I believe that absolutely everything that ever happens is for a reason. I therefore believe that while it might not seem fair that all kinds of individuals with integrity did not "make it", I believe it's been for it's perfect reasons within the system. So, when someone not only makes it through those early stages, and further progresses throughout numerous years of hard work AND maintains their integrity, which is at a high level, I'm really quite absolutely MARVEL-ed. I just did not think it was possible at this point in time, really.
It is possible but we are the ones responsible in making it possible by electing the right candidates. Look I think that Kucinich and Paul are good men and they are a rarity in politics today, but thast does not make them amazing marvels, that just means that our government is screwed up because we allow our politicians to forgo their principles in order to win re-election.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It is possible but we are the ones responsible in making it possible by electing the right candidates. Look I think that Kucinich and Paul are good men and they are a rarity in politics today, but thast does not make them amazing marvels, that just means that our government is screwed up because we allow our politicians to forgo their principles in order to win re-election.
The system requires compromise, and there's always a fine line as to how much you should be willing to compromise in order to accomplish something else. There are good people in politics that struggle with this all the time. Kucinich and Paul have paid a price for maintaining their integrity ... how many bills with their name on them have passed? I believe the answer is "none." So they've held onto their principles, but they've also not been terribly effective in moving towards their goals. It's a real tightrope act, and there's a downside no matter which way you go.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
They do pay taxes, although techinically speaking they really don't since I'm forced by law to withhold the money from their paychecks so they never even get it in the first place. But, regardless, this is where the "willing" part of your earlier statement goes out the window. Absent the law, I'd give them that money and I suspect most of them would keep it for their own purposes and choices.
They willing follow the law.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It is possible but we are the ones responsible in making it possible by electing the right candidates. Look I think that Kucinich and Paul are good men and they are a rarity in politics today, but thast does not make them amazing marvels, that just means that our government is screwed up because we allow our politicians to forgo their principles in order to win re-election.
I agree the voters are 100% responsible for who they vote in. And yet, ultimately, no matter "why", it still is what it is. The system is exactly where it is at this point in time, reflecting our evolution as humans. So those "great people" who have not made it as far as Kucinich, much less with integrity intact, they were not meant to do so. And I make this assertion because they did not do so. That Kucinich is where he is is due to external variables AND his inner variables. Neither set of variables exists in a vaccum. So I give Kucinich credit where it is due--for his personal contribution and seeming lifelong dedication. It's MARVEL-ous to me! And really I can talk about this forever, and the more we associate Kucinich's name with the word marvel--positively or negatively, the better.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The system requires compromise, and there's always a fine line as to how much you should be willing to compromise in order to accomplish something else. There are good people in politics that struggle with this all the time. Kucinich and Paul have paid a price for maintaining their integrity ... how many bills with their name on them have passed? I believe the answer is "none." So they've held onto their principles, but they've also not been terribly effective in moving towards their goals. It's a real tightrope act, and there's a downside no matter which way you go.
I agree but we are the ones responsible for creating the environment that exists today in Washington. If the public was able to pull themselvesd away from American Idol and Survivor for more than 5 minutes and actually paid a little more attention to the people we elect we could improve the situation in our nation's capital. Then people of principle, like Kucinish and Paul, wouldn't be such a rarity in politics.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
They have no choice in the matter, vis a vis taxation. I "willingly follow the law" by withholding a percentage of their income. But I'm not doing this "willingly". I'm doing it because I'm coerced into doing it. If I don't do it, I face severe penalties and potential violence. I'm not "willingly following" the laws -- I'm complying with them because even if I did not, the ends would be the same or worse. The "system" doesn't care about my will one way or the other.
They have no choice in the matter, vis a vis taxation. I "willingly follow the law" by withholding a percentage of their income. But I'm not doing this "willingly". I'm doing it because I'm coerced into doing it. If I don't do it, I face severe penalties and potential violence. I'm not "willingly following" the laws -- I'm complying with them because even if I did not, the ends would be the same or worse. The "system" doesn't care about my will one way or the other.
There still is a choice involved
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Of course there is a choice involved (for me at least, not the employees). But it's just a choice between compliance or punishment. There is a "choice involved" in slave labor too. Does that mean slave labor is not a violation of a man or woman's freedom?
Of course there is a choice involved (for me at least, not the employees). But it's just a choice between compliance or punishment. There is a "choice involved" in slave labor too. Does that mean slave labor is not a violation of a man or woman's freedom?
Starvation would be the other choice there.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree but we are the ones responsible for creating the environment that exists today in Washington. If the public was able to pull themselvesd away from American Idol and Survivor for more than 5 minutes and actually paid a little more attention to the people we elect we could improve the situation in our nation's capital. Then people of principle, like Kucinish and Paul, wouldn't be such a rarity in politics.
So the fact is that the American public are exactly who and where they are. And for perfect reasons in the system. And therefore Paul and Kucinich remain such rarities.
I understand there is potential to be different, but we're talking of what exists right now.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
So the fact is that the American public are exactly who and where they are. And for perfect reasons in the system. And therefore Paul and Kucinich remain such rarities.
I understand there is potential to be different, but we're talking of what exists right now.
If you are talking in the confines of what exists now then yes Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are exceptional compared to their fellow congressmen/women and senators.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
"There" meaning in slave labor? Sure, starvation would certainly be one potential choice there. As would simply refusing to labor and accepting whatever violence your slavemaster decided to inflict.
People have lots of "choices" in the face of violent oppression. But the existence of those choices does not erase the fundamental flaws and contradictions that violent oppression is based upon in the first place. To implement systems of coersion and pretend that the ends are "willing" is to setup a giant contradiction. If people were actually willing to do these things, you wouldn't need the coersion.
"There" meaning in slave labor? Sure, starvation would certainly be one potential choice there. As would simply refusing to labor and accepting whatever violence your slavemaster decided to inflict.
People have lots of "choices" in the face of violent oppression. But the existence of those choices does not erase the fundamental flaws and contradictions that violent oppression is based upon in the first place. To implement systems of coersion and pretend that the ends are "willing" is to setup a giant contradiction.
To implement a system with no protection/regulation also creates oppression and is full of flaws while pretending the ones choicing to work these 'slave wage' jobs have a whole lot of 'choices' in the matter.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If you are talking in the confines of what exists now then yes Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are exceptional compared to their fellow congressmen/women and senators.
I notice you slipped Ron Paul in there too. And I can't really obect much.....yet.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
To implement a system with no protection/regulation also creates oppression and is full of flaws while pretending the ones choicing to work these 'slave wage' jobs have a whole lot of 'choices' in the matter.
To implement a system with no protection or regulation does not "create oppression". It certainly might, however, allow oppressive forces to take hold of society. And people everywhere should and have every right to stand up against oppressive forces. If, however, they simply establish their own, their moral highground becomes nothing but a fetid swamp.
Comments
What I am saying is that there are people of integrity and principle, like Kucinich and Ron Paul, who have run for office but are not elected. We could have a government with a larger amount of people like these two Congressman if we actually started giving a shit about the people we elect. These two men are not exceptional they are merely better than the rest if the crap holding office right now.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It is possible but we are the ones responsible in making it possible by electing the right candidates. Look I think that Kucinich and Paul are good men and they are a rarity in politics today, but thast does not make them amazing marvels, that just means that our government is screwed up because we allow our politicians to forgo their principles in order to win re-election.
They willing follow the law.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I agree but we are the ones responsible for creating the environment that exists today in Washington. If the public was able to pull themselvesd away from American Idol and Survivor for more than 5 minutes and actually paid a little more attention to the people we elect we could improve the situation in our nation's capital. Then people of principle, like Kucinish and Paul, wouldn't be such a rarity in politics.
They have no choice in the matter, vis a vis taxation. I "willingly follow the law" by withholding a percentage of their income. But I'm not doing this "willingly". I'm doing it because I'm coerced into doing it. If I don't do it, I face severe penalties and potential violence. I'm not "willingly following" the laws -- I'm complying with them because even if I did not, the ends would be the same or worse. The "system" doesn't care about my will one way or the other.
There still is a choice involved
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Of course there is a choice involved (for me at least, not the employees). But it's just a choice between compliance or punishment. There is a "choice involved" in slave labor too. Does that mean slave labor is not a violation of a man or woman's freedom?
Starvation would be the other choice there.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I understand there is potential to be different, but we're talking of what exists right now.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
If you are talking in the confines of what exists now then yes Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are exceptional compared to their fellow congressmen/women and senators.
"There" meaning in slave labor? Sure, starvation would certainly be one potential choice there. As would simply refusing to labor and accepting whatever violence your slavemaster decided to inflict.
People have lots of "choices" in the face of violent oppression. But the existence of those choices does not erase the fundamental flaws and contradictions that violent oppression is based upon in the first place. To implement systems of coersion and pretend that the ends are "willing" is to setup a giant contradiction. If people were actually willing to do these things, you wouldn't need the coersion.
To implement a system with no protection/regulation also creates oppression and is full of flaws while pretending the ones choicing to work these 'slave wage' jobs have a whole lot of 'choices' in the matter.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Well he is a man who has stuck to his principles.
To implement a system with no protection or regulation does not "create oppression". It certainly might, however, allow oppressive forces to take hold of society. And people everywhere should and have every right to stand up against oppressive forces. If, however, they simply establish their own, their moral highground becomes nothing but a fetid swamp.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!