On your death bed...

2

Comments

  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    saveuplife wrote:
    "On you're deathbed.... do you think you'll be thinking about politics?"

    That was asking "you" (the reader of the question) what you would do. What's the need to debate here? You are making yourself look ridiculous.


    Oh sheesh.

    Dude, you posed the question poorly. Then you hopped all over Gonzo1977's case with a sarcastic remark. Because his response didn't jive with your intention.

    And now you're shocked and disgusted because you're being taken to task on it? :rolleyes:


    Get a grip.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    know1 wrote:
    I'm saying that the health insurance industry is to blame for most of our healthcare cost problems in this country. I probably didn't make that very clear.

    But....everyone's going to die. Why not try to deal with that reality in advance?


    I don't think that you are understanding that the health insurance industry is a product of the Health Care System in this country.

    I don't think that you realize that the health insurance industry would not be able to operate the way they do if the health care system was reformed and prevented this blatant profit making off of sick people in desperate need of health care.

    And as another poster commented, look at what has happend to our 401K's over the last month in a half. What happens when being responsible just isn't enough? That is becoming a dangerous reality.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    NMyTree wrote:
    Oh sheesh.

    Dude, you posed the question poorly. Then you hopped all over Gonzo1977's case with a sarcastic remark. Because his response didn't jive with your intention.

    And now you're shocked and disgusted because you're being taken to task on it? :rolleyes:


    Get a grip.

    You just want to argue. I'll get a grip when you get a job.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    No Poor Health Insurance is In Concert with a Poor Health Care System.

    You are putting a price tag on peoples life!!!

    You mean to tell me that you can't see that there is something horrifically wrong with a system that fosters that mentality?

    How can you blame somone because they can't afford their treatment? Because they develop Cancer?

    It's a shitty deal to leave your family with debt because you got sick.

    It has nothing to do with irresponsiblity. Nothing.

    I hope to god I don't have to think about that when I'm dying.

    But how could you not.

    It is a shitty deal to leave your family with debt, that's why people buy life insurance right?

    If you're socialized you just put the entire debt on not just your family but the entire nation.

    Nothing in this world is free.

    Socialization simply shifts one ridiculous pile of money from one group to another. Neither group of people really give a shit about you or any other individual person. They care about themsleves first and foremost. So the best thing an individual can do for their family is to live debt free, buy life insurance and don't spend the last 3 weeks of thier life in a hospital.

    If you're poor, your life is going to be simple and without many possessions, dosen't mean it can't be rich.

    Socialized or not, the only people getting the truely best medical care are the wealthy and it will remain that way until the end of time. All the ism's in the world will never make the world a fair or equitable place.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • QuestionAuthorityQuestionAuthority Idaho Posts: 327
    saveuplife wrote:
    Life is not a movie? Really?

    You honestly think, when you are on your deathbed, you'll be thinking about politics? You'll be thinking about which CANDIDATE will win the upcoming election? You'll be thinking about what the Senate is voting on in the upcoming week? Come on. I don't think you are being sincere.

    As is normally the case, people here just want to argue.


    What did you really expect with the question? REALLY?

    Did you expect all of us here to join hands in harmony and realize that our political discourse really does not matter since we are all going to die and on our deathbed realize all the things in life that are important?

    I am sorry.. but the reality of LIFE if that yes of course on your death bed you will be thinking of your life.. your family... but you cannot tell me that you will not at all be concerned with the OUTRAGEOUS cost that is most likely adding up with every pill that is being brought to you.. with every test they are running.. this is all bills/money that will affect your loved ones after you have passed.. and if you are fortunate to have saved for this very unfortunate event you are lucky, but do you really want all that you have saved up for going to pay for overpriced health care? I know having been in the hospital WITH insurance I know how quickly it adds up and diminishes one's savings.. so yes I think the THOUGHT of our government may just cross your mind.. sorry that is the reality of life.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but together we make a mighty fist ~ Sitting Bull
  • Ive followed my father and my grandfather with my choice of career path, (farming) so I can only relate to my grandfather's advice from his deathbed. I spent many weeks at my grandfather's side as he layed dying of cancer.

    The bulk of our conversations involved the family business, who to trust, who to do business with, the enemies to keep close and the friends that could not be trusted. We discussed politics, finances, business decisions, and preparations for the future.

    I guess the short answer to the OP's question would be..."it depends on the circumstances"
    the Minions
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,500
    dunkman wrote:
    thankfully we have free health care in this country...

    in reply to thread.. no, of course not.

    No such thing as "free" health care.

    Anyhow, I think I won't be thinking about politics, however, politics will have played a role in how happy I am when I get to my death bed, i.e. how my life went.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    saveuplife wrote:
    Life is not a movie? Really?

    You honestly think, when you are on your deathbed, you'll be thinking about politics? You'll be thinking about which CANDIDATE will win the upcoming election? You'll be thinking about what the Senate is voting on in the upcoming week? Come on. I don't think you are being sincere.

    As is normally the case, people here just want to argue.

    No, several people have answered your question, within the context you posed the question. And some have answered your question in the context of what you "intended". So what's the problem? You're the one who wants to argue, right from the start of this tread. You're the one being confrontational. You're the one jumping on people's responses and insisting their responses are wrong.

    Furthermore, who the fuck are you to tell people what they will be thinking on their deathbeds?

    The question (and it's concept) at best is very subjective and simply based on conjecture.......or guessing. There are no absolute definitives.

    And everyone....all people are different. What you might be thinking on your deathbed is soley a reflection of you. No two people think and believe exactly alike or in the same things. So what you think will be going through your head, has no relevence to what other people will have going through their head.

    You're sitting in this thread trying to dictate and tell everyone what they will be or should be thinking on their deathbed. Have you lost you fucking mind?
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    saveuplife:

    My response was based on what was on my mind at the moment.

    I'm pretty sure that if things continue the way they do, that I'd be very worried about what my medical bills are going to cost my family.

    It's unfortunate but true that even "death beds" cost money these days. I might as well die in 5 star hotel because it would probably be cheaper.

    The reality is...I don't know when I'm going to die. All I can base my judgement on is what it would be like to die right now.

    Right now...Leaving your family in debt because of medical costs is what happens all too often these days and it's the first thing I thought about.

    Sorry you didn't like my answer.

    But I think It's just as relavant and valid a thought as thinking about Angels,God, Heaven and Hell.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    No such thing as "free" health care.


    yes there is. i could leave school at 16 years of age. never work ever in a job, ever. then at age 45 i have to go to hospital for a blood transfusion... completely free. I wont have to pay a single penny. me personally i mean... i know others will have.

    I know what you mean though... its how its described here in the UK... the NHS is free.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    saveuplife wrote:
    You just want to argue. I'll get a grip when you get a job.


    You're completely out of your fucking mind.

    Now you assume that you know what I do for a living or whether or not I'm employed? hahahahahaha!!!!

    Why do I suspect you were hoping to direct this thread into the realm of " God ....Jesus......Christianity ":rolleyes:

    Obviously no one else's response is correct, unless they speculate that they will be thinking of exactly the same things as you. Yeah, you're a fucking genius.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,500
    dunkman wrote:
    yes there is. i could get to 16 years of age. never work ever in a job, ever. then at age 45 i have to go to hospital for a blood transfusion... completely free. I wont have to pay a single penny. me personally i mean... i know others will have.

    I know what you mean though... its how its described here in the UK... the NHS is free.


    Free to the receipiant....not free. Someone's paying for your use of the health care system.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    I don't know, it depends on a lot of things I guess. The politics of the moment, my state, whether I have a family or not...




    know1 wrote:
    But....everyone's going to die. Why not try to deal with that reality in advance?

    Death is free. We're talking about medical bills, which means were talking about medical problems.

    Can you afford a cancer treatment right now, without help from your health insurance?

    You can get sick, pay all your medical bills and be perfectly responsible, but you can get critically ill again the next year. You can't give a certain amount needed to pay for medical bills because the costs can range between five dollars and ... basically any amount.

    How can you call people irresponsible if they can't pay their medical bills. Who knows what they paid for before they were on their death bed.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    So the best thing an individual can do for their family is to live debt free, buy life insurance and don't spend the last 3 weeks of thier life in a hospital.


    Hey it's a great thought in principle. In a perfect world right?

    But the truth is...sometimes people don't have control over this stuff.

    Debt isn't entirely the product of irresponabilty. It can also be the product of circumstance. Sometimes circumstances change. I've seen it happen. People with great jobs, great homes, great salary, security...Lose it all...Get sick...and die in debt.

    It happens more than you may realize.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    I don't think that you are understanding that the health insurance industry is a product of the Health Care System in this country.

    I don't think that you realize that the health insurance industry would not be able to operate the way they do if the health care system was reformed and prevented this blatant profit making off of sick people in desperate need of health care.

    And as another poster commented, look at what has happend to our 401K's over the last month in a half. What happens when being responsible just isn't enough? That is becoming a dangerous reality.

    The health insurance industry makes a profit ON TOP of the profit made by the healthcare industry. Furthermore, it keeps prices inflated due to no competition and also because high prices help guarantee its survival.

    Not sure why more people don't see that.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Free to the recipient

    thank you. thats all i need to hear. :)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,500
    dunkman wrote:
    thank you. thats all i need to hear. :)


    Until they get a job and start paying for other people....;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • It's not always about healthcare either.

    My grandfather passed in 1998 and he warned us that republicans would seek to deregulate the farming industry to the point that the large farms and corporate farms would be the only successful farms and drive the small farmer out of business.
    He was a wise man by foreshadowing to us from his deathbed how to prepare for less government assistance. His words were practically prophetic for all he had warned us of came to truth. Almost all our friends from those days have had to sell or leave their farms to the rich.
    the Minions
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    know1 wrote:
    The health insurance industry makes a profit ON TOP of the profit made by the healthcare industry. Furthermore, it keeps prices inflated due to no competition and also because high prices help guarantee its survival.Not sure why more people don't see that.


    So you agree with this?
    Someone getting very rich off of your Cancer?
    You don't find something inherently wrong with that?
    You think this is the only way to do things?

    Your probably going to say..."Well that's how it is" "Deal with it" "It's never going to change".

    But why not change it? It's broken and we all know it.

    Do you mean to tell me we're not smart enough to come up with something that works?
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Hey it's a great thought in principle. In a perfect world right?

    But the truth is...sometimes people don't have control over this stuff.

    Debt isn't entirely the product of irresponabilty. It can also be the product of circumstance. Sometimes circumstances change. I've seen it happen. People with great jobs, great homes, great salary, security...Lose it all...Get sick...and die in debt.

    It happens more than you may realize.

    and who is going to protect us from that... the government?

    The same people that screwed up the stock markets... also work for and or on the government.

    Changing the owners, dosen't change human nature.

    Health care costs are freaking ridiculous. A huge part of that is the insurance industry, but you're always going to have more options in a private system and generally more accessability across social/economic lines in a public system. Still dosen't change finite resources.

    All good countries have some semblance of both.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    So you agree with this?
    Someone getting very rich off of your Cancer?
    You don't find something inherently wrong with that?
    You think this is the only way to do things?

    Your probably going to say..."Well that's how it is" "Deal with it" "It's never going to change".

    But why not change it? It's broken and we all know it.

    Do you mean to tell me we're not smart enough to come up with something that works?

    Did I say I agree with it? NO. I'm saying it's a big problem.

    What I've said over and over is that the health insurance industry is the cause of most of our healthcare cost issues and that I firmly believe government supplied (ha!) healthcare would even worse.

    What I believe would be best is for people to only care catastrophic health insurance plans and to basically pay for everything else out of pocket.

    I am OK with people making money to provide healthcare in general. I just think the bureaucracy in place now and lack of price competition are the biggest problems we face.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    and who is going to protect us from that... the government?The same people that screwed up the stock markets

    Yeah Government. That's a start.
    They can certainly help to impose some REGULATION on the Health Insurance Industry...Same as they should have imposed REGULATION on Wall Street.
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    Health care costs are freaking ridiculous.A huge part of that is the insurance industry, but you're always going to have more options in a private system and generally more accessability across social/economic lines in a public system.Still dosen't change finite resources.

    Hey Man. I'm not claiming that Universal Health Care isn't flawed.But that's not to say it isn't a good idea or that it couldn't possibly work. It just needs to be refined and better thought out. To say that we can't improve it or never make it work is unacceptable.

    It's the same thing as saying we can never create an automobile that doesn't require Gasoline.

    If we just give up and accept this bullshit system; one that we all admitt is bullshit than were just a bunch of chumps. Since when did we give up on something because it was hard?

    Universal Healthcare is something to work towards just like the enviroment, just like removing our dependence on oil.
    It's a hard transition...but it's possible.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Yeah Government. That's a start.
    They can certainly help to impose some REGULATION on the Health Insurance Industry...Same as they should have imposed REGULATION on Wall Street.



    Hey Man. I'm not claiming that Universal Health Care isn't flawed.But that's not to say it isn't a good idea or that it couldn't possibly work. It just needs to be refined and better thought out. To say that we can't improve it or never make it work is unacceptable.

    It's the same thing as saying we can never create an automobile that doesn't require Gasoline.

    If we just give up and accept this bullshit system; one that we all admitt is bullshit than were just a bunch of chumps. Since when did we give up on something because it was hard?

    Universal Healthcare is something to work towards just like the enviroment, just like removing our dependence on oil.
    It's a hard transition...but it's possible.

    I totally agree, but we are out of control.

    Look at the large campaign donors;the people holding the money can get elected whomever they want, then they write the tax code, they write the health code...It doesn't change if you socialize it, just like the stock market.

    Hell Paulson worked for Goldman Sachs right? Think he got his job at the treasury because he's in it to serve the people?

    I'm not sure if there is anything more confusing for no reason than health care, law, and finance in this country. Consequently, those are the 3 areas where the average person is the most screwed on a routine basis.

    It should and could be made a hell of a lot easier to understand and accessable, but that would diminish the power and wealth of those in charge.

    I totally think it can be improved, I just don't think the powers that be will allow it. Just like Exxon buying up patents and GM crushing the EV1.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    know1 wrote:
    What I believe would be best is for people to only care catastrophic health insurance plans and to basically pay for everything else out of pocket.

    Fair enough.

    But I believe that you're basing this on an assumption that all people have to do is simply BUY into this program or make sure they SAVE in case of catastrophic illness.

    The problem is the words BUY and SAVE. Again....Perfect world....Perfect scenario; one that unfortunately isn't a reality for too many Americans.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I totally agree, but we are out of control.

    Look at the large campaign donors though man, the people holding the money, can get elected whomever they want, then they write the tax code, they write the health code...It doesn't change if you socialize it, just like the stock market.

    Hell Paulson worked for Goldman Sachs right? Think he got his job at the treasury because he's in it to serve the people?

    I'm not sure if there is anything more confusing than health care, law, and finance in this country. Consequently, those are the 3 areas where the average person is the most screwed on a routine basis.

    It should and could be made a hell of a lot easier to understand and accessable, but that would diminish the power and wealth of those in charge.

    I totally think it can be improved, I just don't think the powers that be will allow it. Just like Exxon buying up patents and GM crushing the EV1.


    No doubt there. Greed is being placed above progress. And that's never a good thing; especially when it comes to peoples health.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    NMyTree wrote:

    who the fuck are you ?
    NMyTree wrote:
    Have you lost you fucking mind?

    NMyTree wrote:
    You're completely out of your fucking mind..
    NMyTree wrote:
    Yeah, you're a fucking genius.

    Your eloquence is simply breathtaking.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Until they get a job and start paying for other people....;)

    or maybe just paying back what they got? ;)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • gabersgabers Posts: 2,787
    Yeah, it is the problem. Why is it so hard?

    It's not hard if it's a few grand. Plenty of people have had hundreds of thousands in medical bills, should we all save that much up? Seems easy enough.
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    saveuplife wrote:
    Your eloquence is simply breathtaking.


    Oh okay. I'll be thinking exactly the same thing on my deathbed, as you'll be thinking, on your deathbed. Just tell me what to think.

    And I'm sure everyone in this thread, no, everyone on the planet, will be thinking exactly the same thing on their deathbed; as what you will be thinking on your deathbed. Just tell us all what we should be thinking.....on our deathbed.

    Okay? Feel better, now? You got exactly what you wanted.


    What a douche.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    NMyTree wrote:
    Oh okay. I'll be thinking exactly the same thing on my deathbed, as you'll be thinking, on your deathbed. Just tell me what to think.

    And I'm sure everyone in this thread, no, everyone on the planet, will be thinking exactly the same thing on their deathbed; as what you will be thinking on your deathbed. Just tell us all what we should be thinking.....on our deathbed.

    Okay? Feel better, now? You got exactly what you wanted.


    What a douche.

    You should be banned.
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