The reason why the Lebonese infrastructure gets attacked…

Pacomc79

hailhailkc wrote:

…is because the government of Lebanon doesn't do anything to kick these terrorist scumbags out of their country. I hear people say that Hezbollah is too strong for them. Well…tough…if you don't like having terrorists operating in your borders, do something about it. Fight them. Lebanon has always harbored these terrorists thugs, and they always will. Beirut itself has always been a safe haven for terrorists and their ilk. Always.

Also, much like Afghanistan, their infrastructure is attacked because that's the infrastructure that Hezbollah uses to aide their attacks on Israel…much like the Taliban used the infrastructure of Kabul and other cities to wage their war of suppression and hate. If someone can show me a map of the country Hezbollah, I would really appreciate it. Until then it's not difficult, I would think, to understand why Israel is bombing parts of Lebanon.

Do the Lebanese actually have the ability to kick out Hezbollah?

I mean come on, Israel has Hamas launching missles at them from Gaza and they haven't stamped them out yet.

It's completely irrational to attack a city outright simply because they MIGHT have a chance of getting a few bad guys. Oh and hey they dropped leaflets, so what are the chances the bad guys are going to stay home too?

chopitdown

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

Not for nothing, but Hezbollah isn't just a military/terrorist operation. They have the governmental arm, and they also maintain a bunch of social programs serving the Lebanese people like schools, clinics and hospitals. I'm not trying to make a case for Hezbollah, I'm just trying to give a possible explanation for their popularity with the people of Lebanon.

i'm sure there's a reason they are popular...look at hamas...they are terrorist yet people flock to them b/c they like some of what they stand for on social issues. I feel the gov't should put the pressure on the gov't arm of hezbollah to do something about their millitant arm. I think it should be handled from the inside as well.

thankyougrandma

I can't believe peoples still support these crimes... really i can't understand, keep justifying, they're killing civillians, taking thousands of foreigners hostage and triggered a humanitarian crisis, what the fuck does this have to do with disarming Hezbollah? Beyond my own comprehension, i'm just short of insulting everyone...

Milhouse VanHouten

chopitdown wrote:

i'm sure there's a reason they are popular...look at hamas...they are terrorist yet people flock to them b/c they like some of what they stand for on social issues. I feel the gov't should put the pressure on the gov't arm of hezbollah to do something about their millitant arm. I think it should be handled from the inside as well.

Sooo... you're saying that back channel political pressure and diplomacy might be more effective and less costly than indiscriminately bombing the shit out of a country until they're set back 20 years? I tend to agree.

thankyougrandma

chopitdown wrote:

i'm sure there's a reason they are popular...look at hamas...they are terrorist yet people flock to them b/c they like some of what they stand for on social issues. I feel the gov't should put the pressure on the gov't arm of hezbollah to do something about their millitant arm. I think it should be handled from the inside as well.

what exactly tell you that they're not trying that? As you point out, these groups are very popular, and very powerfull i would ad, so disarming them is not like a sunday morning visit to the church, and right now it's close to impossible with the way Israel are dealing with it.

Let's face it, there was something before Hezbollah, there will be something AFTER Hezbollah, need to adress the cause, give sovereignty to the country involved, then apply the state of law in these country, but that need time, not a year or two, but dozens of them, changing the mentality that makes civillians turn to terrorist group because they're seen as the one defending them, that must be change too, these groups won't live without popular support, is that what Israel are doing now? I doubt, sorry.

rebornFixer

Pacomc79 wrote:

Do the Lebanese actually have the ability to kick out Hezbollah?

I mean come on, Israel has Hamas launching missles at them from Gaza and they haven't stamped them out yet.

It's completely irrational to attack a city outright simply because they MIGHT have a chance of getting a few bad guys. Oh and hey they dropped leaflets, so what are the chances the bad guys are going to stay home too?

The Lebanese army is probably big enough to dismantle Hezbollah. We are talking 70000 soldiers vs. around 6000-7000 guerillas. The problem is, many soldiers in said army harbour sympathies for the terrorists and might not agree to fight their "Shi'ite brothers".

thankyougrandma

Oh HailHailKC, they've start to bomb the CHRISTIAN sector in Beirut, this is not enough for you to start questionning the forces involved? At least pray for them, they're not muslims, they're christians, that might trigger more compassion :rolleyes:

RockinInCanada

thankyougrandma wrote:

Oh HailHailKC, they've start to bomb the CHRISTIAN sector in Beirut, this is not enough for you to start questionning the forces involved? At least pray for them, they're not muslims, they're christians, that might trigger more compassion :rolleyes:

Doesn't count....misfired bomb....just doesn't count.....just like Canadians killed just doesn't matter....

thankyougrandma

reborncareerist wrote:

The Lebanese army is probably big enough to dismantle Hezbollah. We are talking 70000 soldiers vs. around 6000-7000 guerillas. The problem is, many soldiers in said army harbour sympathies for the terrorists and might not agree to fight their "Shi'ite brothers".

But in the end they wouldn't be able to disarm Hezbollah. Iraq, Afghan are just examples of military failing to adress the terrorist cause, Hezbollah also have way more power than the Lebanese army in some region, namely the south border. It would trigger a civil war, that's not exactly need in Lebanon, and it wasn't need before the current Israeli invasion. Plus as you said they have sympathies and all that. I guess they need to cut the need for that sympathy first...

rebornFixer

thankyougrandma wrote:

But in the end they wouldn't be able to disarm Hezbollah. Iraq, Afghan are just examples of military failing to adress the terrorist cause, Hezbollah also have way more power than the Lebanese army in some region, namely the south border. It would trigger a civil war, that's not exactly need in Lebanon, and it wasn't need before the current Israeli invasion. Plus as you said they have sympathies and all that. I guess they need to cut the need for that sympathy first...

Yeah, I agree ... A civil war would probably be the result, assuming that the Lebanese government acted unilaterally. I think the sympathy stems from the classic "us vs. them" bullshit espoused by radical Islam (not to mention radical forms of the other Western religions, e.g., Zionism). Not sure how to change this mentality ... I think peaceful contact with other cultures and religious groups can serve as a foil for extremism (e.g., here in Canada ... Although we have a problem too!). But how is that supposed to occur in the developing world?

floyd1975

thankyougrandma wrote:

I guess they need to cut the need for that sympathy first...

Getting rid of Israel will take care of that.

thankyougrandma

zstillings wrote:

Getting rid of Israel will take care of that.

sure sure, keep talking...

RockinInCanada

thankyougrandma wrote:

sure sure, keep talking...

And the anti-Israel labelling talk returns to the board eh....

floyd1975

thankyougrandma wrote:

sure sure, keep talking...

Seriously, that is the objective of these groups. That would eliminate the need for Hezbollah. I am not saying that Israel is completely clean in this mess but that is still the goal of the terrorists.

floyd1975

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

And the anti-Israel labelling talk returns to the board eh....

Are you claiming that Helbollah is not anti-Israel?

thankyougrandma

reborncareerist wrote:

Yeah, I agree ... A civil war would probably be the result, assuming that the Lebanese government acted unilaterally. I think the sympathy stems from the classic "us vs. them" bullshit espoused by radical Islam (not to mention radical forms of the other Western religions, e.g., Zionism). Not sure how to change this mentality ... I think peaceful contact with other cultures and religious groups can serve as a foil for extremism (e.g., here in Canada ... Although we have a problem too!). But how is that supposed to occur in the developing world?

I don't know HOW, i know it's not something that would be achieve in one year. As i said, give those country sovereignty like it was done with Lebanon, but then we must provide them help, humanitarian help, diplomatic help, political help i don't know. Hezbollah are among other things an employers, help the neighbourhood and regions they're dominating and that kind of stuff, so maybe start by cutting that from them, social programs, infrastructures, give population work, damn i don't know, if i would know i'd be a diplomat or a politician, but damn i would expect the politicians to settle this crisis, right now saying "Iran and Syria are responsible" just add fuel to the crisis and while some people follow their political agendas civillians dies, including Canadians... and christians...

RockinInCanada

zstillings wrote:

Seriously, that is the objective of these groups. That would eliminate the need for Hezbollah. I am not saying that Israel is completely clean in this mess but that is still the goal of the terrorists.

And these groups represent a small minority of what Muslims want...which by no means justifies an attack on a country....Muslims have had to deal with these groups killing them off WAY BEFORE 9/11 for straying from the Koran....people seem to think the majority of Muslims are complacent with fundamentalism...not even close to the truth...like i said reseach Egypt and Algeria....a incredible amount of Muslims were killed by groups like Al Queda and that such....so I would say governments have been trying to weed them out...but looking at the failure that Israel's attack will eventually be (just as complete and utter American failure in Iraq) it will only promote more nut jobs that will come into Tel Aviv and blow up a restaurant...then we will all have to see the media saying why why why????

Why would they kill innocent people...barbarians they are labelled and yes they are....but now we have a nation saying INNOCENT civilans being killed now by Israeli weaponary is justifed to root out Hezbollah...total b/s.....just total b/s....its sickening to see how the west is slanted....instead of taking a path to condone both sides and try to reach some compromise...but who wants to talk right when fighting can be done?

All this attack will accomplish is making a the time bomb we call the Middle East quicken its pace to total self destruction....and Israel is helping aid the process just as much as Hezbollah has.....

RockinInCanada

zstillings wrote:

Are you claiming that Helbollah is not anti-Israel?

No...Im not claiming anything....

thankyougrandma

zstillings wrote:

Seriously, that is the objective of these groups. That would eliminate the need for Hezbollah. I am not saying that Israel is completely clean in this mess but that is still the goal of the terrorists.

cutting the sympathy without blowing up Israel then, i don't think the majority of the population in Lebanon and even those who currently support Hezbollah in THIS conflict, are supporting the destruction of Israel. Just my opinion...

RockinInCanada

thankyougrandma wrote:

cutting the sympathy without blowing up Israel then, i don't think the majority of the population in Lebanon and even those who currently support Hezbollah in THIS conflict, are supporting the destruction of Israel. Just my opinion...

That is exactly what people don't understand so they say the killings of innocents are justifed because Hezbollah is being routed out...the same people who then cannot fathom why nut job Islamic loonies bomb restaurants...it does not take a genius to figure it out....