The reason why the Lebonese infrastructure gets attacked…
hailhailkc
Posts: 582
…is because the government of Lebanon doesn't do anything to kick these terrorist scumbags out of their country. I hear people say that Hezbollah is too strong for them. Well…tough…if you don't like having terrorists operating in your borders, do something about it. Fight them. Lebanon has always harbored these terrorists thugs, and they always will. Beirut itself has always been a safe haven for terrorists and their ilk. Always.
Also, much like Afghanistan, their infrastructure is attacked because that's the infrastructure that Hezbollah uses to aide their attacks on Israel…much like the Taliban used the infrastructure of Kabul and other cities to wage their war of suppression and hate. If someone can show me a map of the country Hezbollah, I would really appreciate it. Until then it's not difficult, I would think, to understand why Israel is bombing parts of Lebanon.
Also, much like Afghanistan, their infrastructure is attacked because that's the infrastructure that Hezbollah uses to aide their attacks on Israel…much like the Taliban used the infrastructure of Kabul and other cities to wage their war of suppression and hate. If someone can show me a map of the country Hezbollah, I would really appreciate it. Until then it's not difficult, I would think, to understand why Israel is bombing parts of Lebanon.
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If it's that easy for a government to get rid of groups like Hezbollah, then we should start looking in the mirror.
grasping.
and falling short.
Not quite the same thing.
Not even close.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
You can't compare Lebanon with Afghanistan. The Taliban where in bed with Al Qaida and where unwilling to cooperate with A US request to hand over Bin Laden. The majority Lebanese government has no ties with Hezbollah. You portary it as so black and white that they can just simply kick them out. Look at Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt. There are three countries that have terrorist organizxations operating within their borders and they have been unable to expell them. So if there is another Al Qaida attack on US soil should we bomb Riyadh, Cairo,or Islamabad. Should we destroy the airports and power planst in these nations simply becausethey have been unable to expell all terrorist elements within their borders. I'm not sure if you are aware of this but the Israeli governmenr requested that the lebanese military mobilize and attempt to flush Hezbollah elements out in Southern Lebanon. What does Israel do then, they bomb said Lebanese military installations and positions. The Lebanese military doesn't even fire one shot back. Does this sound like a country that is willingly helping Hezbollah? Even if you want to stick with the arguement that Isrtael needed to destroy certain infastructure in Southern Lebanon in order to restrict Hezbollah deployments and movements, than why are they bombng as far north as Tripoli.
If you look at the history of Lebanon you will notice that the Lebanese people where never truely the aggressors towards Israel. At first it was the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees and the PLO element that migrated into Southern Lebanon. Once that element was expelled it was the Syrian forces that controlled Lebanon followed by Hezbollah. After years of foreign control KLebanon finally has a majority government in place that is open to the west and wishes to modernize Lebanon and restore it to the jewel it once was. The country and it's people have been victims of others cruel deeds for decades. Do they really deserve to be punished again for actions they had no hand in?
Is that supposed to discredit my question?
They are the same thing. When a mafia group blows up a restaurant because the owner didn't pay for security, it's an act of terrorism. When ALF firebombs an animal shelter to promote their cause, it's terrorism. When the Banditos violently invade someone's home and shoot 8 people, it's terrorism.
We can't stop it, how do you expect Lebanon to stop a group that is far more influential and powerful than ALF?
do you actually think the government (local and federal) sits on their hands when that type of shit happens here? come on, now.
~Michael Bolton
Do you actually think the lebonese government sits on their hands in regards to Hezbollah?
What I am saying is that they don't. Hezbollah receive funding from Syria and Iran and have a fairly large personnel base. If a super-power like the United States can't take down the Animal Liberation Front and stop those acts of terrorism. How can a government like the Lebonese be expected to take down an organization like Hezbollah?
It's quite clear by day six now, that Israel can't take them down either. Not without destroying most of Lebanon and killing 100,000s of civilians. In the end it will only strengthen their animosity towards Israel.
Very good point... a military of 100% American made weaponary cannot even bring them down...and we got people here blaming the Lebonese government for not trying...give me a break...
Israel has never even tried to fully bring them down. If Israel wanted to, they could totally dismantle and destroy Hezbollah and Hamas in the blink of an eye. You wouldn't be in favor of that though, because a Lebonese bridge might get blown up. Israel shows a vast amount of restraint, and they always have, just like they did in the first Gulf War when scud missles were being fired at them.
But, if it's hard for the Lebonese to take care of their own country, why even bother with it, right?
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Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
the systematic destruction of the infrastructure is an act of genocide ... if supplies cannot be moved from place to place you will see a significant death toll related to this over time ...
Different rules fool!
isn't it appropriate that i got hummus on my mind for friday?
Without wishing to get into trouble with the mods again for making a personal comment 'about' you, can I merely suggest that you do your homework and do just a little bit of research into a subject before commenting on it? Everthing you have just said is wrong.
some palestinian faction kidnaps 1 soldier
Israel invades Gaza and bombs their power plant
Hezbollah kidnaps 2 more soldiers
Israel bombs Lebanon
Hezbollah fires missiles at northern Israeli cities
Israel bombs evrything in Lebanon
Hezbollah fires more missiles
etc etc
Am I alone in thinking that someone overreacts here? I mean Lebanon was from before a bit on the fence as regards to Israel apart from Hezbollah. Now you can be certain which side the Lebanese people wil prefer...
I cant help but think that Israel have been waiting for an excuse for a while and got it, and quite possibly some other faction, maybe Iran, found it advantageous to their cause to provoke Israel.
But seriously, all this for the kidnapping of a total of 3 soldiers? Come on. Someone somewhere jumped on the excuse, an excuse that perhaps some other faction provided in the hopes they'd seize it. And the lebanese in the middle of things again. I feel sorry for them. And of course the palestinians who now have no infrastructure either on top on their problems. And I bet Israelis in Northern Israel arent too happy either right now.
And given Israels backing from the US and that they now are "on a roll" it probably wont stop for a while either. Tragedy. Again. For no good reason.
*Note this is not only an attack on Israeli policies and actions, there are several other culprits here to be sure. But I still feel they grossly overreacted, and the only reason I can think of is strategic convenience to have a conflict now for Israel.
**Cue for someone to start referencing revelations and "last days" etc.**
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
We may have to take a popular opinion poll from the staff?
isn't hezbollah a small part of the gov't? They have something like 20ish members in the gov't. So yes, i would think hte lebonese gov't may just sit on their hands at times.
While I agree with you that Hezbollah, the Syrians and Iran are responsible for this mess - it's a bit more complicated that you make it out to be.
I'm mad as hell to that we have to deal with these fundamentalist, but Israel cannot just "wipe out" hezbollah like you claim.
I think the world is learning a big lesson from Iraq right now - that is it is EXTREMELY hard to fight terrorist groups who hide among the public and don't wear uniforms.
Yes, Israel like the US has vastly superior military capabilities when compared to Hezbollah - but we cannot unleash them becuase doing so would mean mass civillian casualties.
I think Israel should call on the rest of the world to help the Lebonese government try to expell Hezbollah on their own.
Trying to take down these fanatical groups will take years. I think the best way to do it is to establish and support democratic countries like Lebanon and work through their governement, military and security forces to deligitimize these groups.
It's only when the vast majority of a population turns on these groups and feels protected by their government from them that we will see an end to this.
Untill then, Israel is just pissing in the wind and making more enemies.
wow...
here we go again...forceing people to fight...pushing our beliefs upon others and calling on them to take up arms against something the US and israel doesn't like...
lets follow this logic...a inner-city gang just murdered someone in LA...I say we blow up the infrastructure of LA if the locals don't take up arms and kill that ilk....if they don't, I say we blow up the highways, bridges, hospitals, and shut off power to LA until justice served...
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!!!!
Not for nothing, but Hezbollah isn't just a military/terrorist operation. They have the governmental arm, and they also maintain a bunch of social programs serving the Lebanese people like schools, clinics and hospitals. I'm not trying to make a case for Hezbollah, I'm just trying to give a possible explanation for their popularity with the people of Lebanon.
Do the Lebanese actually have the ability to kick out Hezbollah?
I mean come on, Israel has Hamas launching missles at them from Gaza and they haven't stamped them out yet.
It's completely irrational to attack a city outright simply because they MIGHT have a chance of getting a few bad guys. Oh and hey they dropped leaflets, so what are the chances the bad guys are going to stay home too?
i'm sure there's a reason they are popular...look at hamas...they are terrorist yet people flock to them b/c they like some of what they stand for on social issues. I feel the gov't should put the pressure on the gov't arm of hezbollah to do something about their millitant arm. I think it should be handled from the inside as well.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Sooo... you're saying that back channel political pressure and diplomacy might be more effective and less costly than indiscriminately bombing the shit out of a country until they're set back 20 years? I tend to agree.
what exactly tell you that they're not trying that? As you point out, these groups are very popular, and very powerfull i would ad, so disarming them is not like a sunday morning visit to the church, and right now it's close to impossible with the way Israel are dealing with it.
Let's face it, there was something before Hezbollah, there will be something AFTER Hezbollah, need to adress the cause, give sovereignty to the country involved, then apply the state of law in these country, but that need time, not a year or two, but dozens of them, changing the mentality that makes civillians turn to terrorist group because they're seen as the one defending them, that must be change too, these groups won't live without popular support, is that what Israel are doing now? I doubt, sorry.
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
The Lebanese army is probably big enough to dismantle Hezbollah. We are talking 70000 soldiers vs. around 6000-7000 guerillas. The problem is, many soldiers in said army harbour sympathies for the terrorists and might not agree to fight their "Shi'ite brothers".
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Doesn't count....misfired bomb....just doesn't count.....just like Canadians killed just doesn't matter....
But in the end they wouldn't be able to disarm Hezbollah. Iraq, Afghan are just examples of military failing to adress the terrorist cause, Hezbollah also have way more power than the Lebanese army in some region, namely the south border. It would trigger a civil war, that's not exactly need in Lebanon, and it wasn't need before the current Israeli invasion. Plus as you said they have sympathies and all that. I guess they need to cut the need for that sympathy first...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Yeah, I agree ... A civil war would probably be the result, assuming that the Lebanese government acted unilaterally. I think the sympathy stems from the classic "us vs. them" bullshit espoused by radical Islam (not to mention radical forms of the other Western religions, e.g., Zionism). Not sure how to change this mentality ... I think peaceful contact with other cultures and religious groups can serve as a foil for extremism (e.g., here in Canada ... Although we have a problem too!). But how is that supposed to occur in the developing world?