No, I'm an objectivist. Skeptics are the lowest form of philosophers.
Not!
I'm a skeptic, those GW freaks may have converted Michael Shermer, but they haven't got to me yet. I'm the real skeptic.
One thing that has got me though is destiny theory. Can't argue with that.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
And you're strong and confident of all that you see in the world. No doubts whatsoever?? Ha.
Allowing for the existence of everything that you see and nothing that you do not.
I see plenty of things that you don't. Except what I see is real. I see the inner workings of society, relations, etc.. I can predict actions and events with relative certainty. All based on the knowledge that there is no God, there is no devine force, even human beings are systematic machines. Everything is as predictable as it is predetermined.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I see plenty of things that you don't. Except what I see is real. I see the inner workings of society, relations, etc.. I can predict actions and events with relative certainty. All based on the knowledge that there is no God, there is no devine force, even human beings are systematic machines. Everything is as predictable as it is predetermined.
That's the most pessimistic worldview I've ever heard.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
That's the most pessimistic worldview I've ever heard.
It's the most realistic view of reality there is.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not just talking about people or the world. I'm talking about all of reality, everything that is, ever was and ever will be is determined by past events.
When you throw a ball, the ball doesn't just decide to take off into outerspace circle the moon 3 times and fly back to the park it came from. It does exactly what it is destined to do. Everything does.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Will person A feel pain? Yes
Will person A be upset? Yes
If person A gets robbed by person B:
Will person A be upset? Yes
Will person A go to the police? Yes
These are almost totally invariable, there are some extenuating cirumstances where person A will not make these deliberations. However these "circumstances" are examples of catalysts to normal human deliberation.
These are very basic, stimulus - response actions. When you get into love and so on it becomes more complicated, but even the science of love is proven to be completely systematic.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm a skeptic, those GW freaks may have converted Michael Shermer, but they haven't got to me yet. I'm the real skeptic.
Ahnimus, you're not a Skeptic. You don't even have a philosophy, as far as I can tell. You simply boil all of reality down to a poor understanding of Newton's laws.
For the same reason children want their parents' love. Why do children want to be loved?
Children want to be loved so that they can take advantage of their parents largesse. In that sense, your God isn't very different. But this is taking this argument to a level that now ignores your earlier contention.
All the arguments you've made in "favor" of Christianity being "reasonable" can easily be applied to Islam, as can all my counter arguments. I can only hope you think about them before setting off on yet another wonderful adventure to prove who's faith is stronger by seeing who can extract the most blood from the other.
Ahnimus, you're not a Skeptic. You don't even have a philosophy, as far as I can tell. You simply boil all of reality down to a poor understanding of Newton's laws.
WTF? Have you read Hawking's "A Brief History of Time"?
Have you any idea at all?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I see plenty of things that you don't. Except what I see is real. I see the inner workings of society, relations, etc.. I can predict actions and events with relative certainty. All based on the knowledge that there is no God, there is no devine force, even human beings are systematic machines. Everything is as predictable as it is predetermined.
i knew you were going to say that
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Anyone can do it, with enough tries. Everytime you walk into a wall, there's a non-zero chance that you'll go right through it. You'll probably need to live for about 10,000 years and do nothing but walk into walls, but eventually you'll get it.
I believe that the person would need to do it for almost the current age of the universe- the bigger an object, the less likely it is to occur. However it does occur billions of times every second in the quantum world.
As for the god thing... You are right, in that god cannot be disproven by science, only in the way that science cannot disprove tooth fairies etc. Science can demonstrate that both have an exceptionally low probability of occuring and therefore their existence is at best, very unikely.
Just chilling how stone cold these mutants can be.
DUBLIN, Ireland (CNN) -- At a recent debate over the battle for Islamic ideals in England, a British-born Muslim stood before the crowd and said Prophet Mohammed's message to nonbelievers is: "I come to slaughter all of you."
"We are the Muslims," said Omar Brooks, an extremist also known as Abu Izzadeen. "We drink the blood of the enemy, and we can face them anywhere. That is Islam and that is jihad."
Anjem Choudary, the public face of Islamist extremism in Britain, added that Muslims have no choice but to take the fight to the West.
"What are Muslims supposed to do when they are being killed in the streets in Afghanistan and Baghdad and Palestine? Do they not have the same rights to defend themselves? In war, people die. People don't make love; they kill each other," he said. (Audio slide show: Preying on Britain's young Muslims)
But in the same debate, held on the prestigious grounds of Dublin's Trinity College in October, many people in the crowd objected.
"These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.
"This is not ideology. It's a mental illness." (Watch 'No chance in hell' )
'Foreign policy has a lot to do with it'
This war of words is part of a larger debate going on in Britain -- the war within the Muslim community for the hearts and minds of young people. The battle of ideas came to the fore again this week when the trial began for six men who are accused of an "extremist Muslim plot" to target London on July 21, 2005.
The Woolwich Crown Court was told the men plotted to carry out a series of "murderous suicide bombings" on London's public transport system, just 14 days after the carnage of the July 7 London bombings, which killed 52 commuters and four bombers.
While Islamic extremists are believed to be a tiny minority of Britain's 1.6 million Muslims, they have no problem having their criticism heard. They have disdain for democracy -- and, most of all, the Bush administration's war on terror policies.
A poll taken in June 2006 for the Times of London newspaper suggested that 13 percent of British Muslims believe the July 7 London bombers were martyrs. (CNN's Christiane Amanpour investigates "The War Within" in a one-hour documentary Satuday and Sunday at 8 p.m. ET.)
"Foreign policy has a lot to do with it," said Hanif Qadir, a youth worker and a moderate voice for Islam in Walthamstow, one of London's biggest Muslim neighborhoods. "But it's the minority radical groups that use that to get to our young people."
In August, British police descended on Walthamstow, saying they had foiled a conspiracy to blow up a dozen U.S.-bound airliners with liquid explosives. That set off the biggest security alert since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Police arrested 24 people in connection with the alleged terror plot, although one man was released after it was determined he was an innocent bystander.
Britain's Scotland Yard and MI5 have also said they are aware of at least 30 terrorist cells and potential plots inside Britain.
'Blowing people up is quite cool'
Young Muslims are easy prey, Qadir told CNN, because they believe the British government crackdown has scapegoated them because of their religious beliefs. The youth also can empathize with those who castigate the Bush administration.
There are some who believe "blowing people up is quite cool," Qadir said.
Qadir asked them why that was justified.
"The answers that I got back is: When a bomb goes off in Baghdad or in Afghanistan and innocent women and children are killed over there, who cares for them? So if a bomb goes off in America or in London, what's wrong with that?" he said.
Qadir is trying to get mosque leaders, many still practicing the tribal traditions of Pakistan, to communicate with the younger generation. But he says it is an uphill battle when radicals like Choudary dominate the debate, getting their faces -- and their message -- out in the public.
"Our scholars ... are not coming out of their holes -- their mosques and their holes -- to engage with these people. They're frightened of that," Qadir said.
The message of extremism can also thrive among youth who see no way out of ethnic ghettos.
"They're into all kinds of vices -- street crime, gun crime, drugs, car theft, credit card fraud. But then now you've got another threat," Qadir said.
"The new threat is radicalism. It's a cause. Every young man wants a cause."
Activist calls for Islamic law
Choudary, whose group Al-Mahajiroun disbanded before the British government could outlaw it under its anti-terror laws, spoke to CNN and made clear he wants to see Islamic law for Britain.
"All of the world belongs to Allah, and we will live according to the Sharia wherever we are," said Choudary, a lawyer. "This is a fundamental belief of the Muslims." (Watch a call for Islamic law )
Asked if he believes in democracy, he said, "No, I don't at all."
"One day, the Sharia will be implemented in Britain. It's a matter of time."
Choudary cited the videotaped "will" of one of the London subway bombers, Mohammed Sidique Khan, who said, "Until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people, we will not stop this fight."
Choudary said he sides strongly with that statement -- "we have everything we need in those wills" -- and he cited passages from the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that he says justify jihad.
"I happen to be in an ideological and political war," Choudary said. "My brothers in al Qaeda and other Mujahedeen are involved in a military campaign."
While Choudary and other radicals continue to try to spread their beliefs, others say there is no justification for jihad in England. Imam Usama Hasan memorized the Quran by the time he was 11 and at 19, he briefly fought in Afghanistan against the Soviets.
"If you have the wrong intention, you can justify your criminal actions from any text -- whether it's the Quran or Bible or Shakespeare," Hasan said.
He said it makes him "furious" when radicals quote the Quran out of context to justify killing of innocents. It's a "very tiny" minority with such beliefs, he said, but "it only takes a handful, of course, to create devastation."
"Many people are terrified of Muslims. They are terrified of a brother walking down the road with his eastern dress and his hat and his beard, because they have seen these images associated with suicide bombers," he said.
"It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people to tell them that ... the message of Islam is not about bits of cloth. It is not about the beard or head scarf or the face veil or violence. It is about peace."
...
I also recall the threats, 'Mother of All Battles' and 'rivers running red with the blood of the infidels'... you are a wuss if you are scared of these assholes.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I also recall the threats, 'Mother of All Battles' and 'rivers running red with the blood of the infidels'... you are a wuss if you are scared of these assholes.
No one is scared of these assholes.
He was pointing out how fucking insane they are.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
...
Yeah... they talk a lot of shit, don't they? And guess what? They ALWAYS have. Remember the shit Ayatollah Khomeni used to say? Yeah... keep an eye on the fuckers, but don't react on account of their ramblings... that's what they want. They talk a lot of shit... if you believe them... that's your fault.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Yeah... they talk a lot of shit, don't they? And guess what? They ALWAYS have. Remember the shit Ayatollah Khomeni used to say? Yeah... keep an eye on the fuckers, but don't react on account of their ramblings... that's what they want. They talk a lot of shit... if you believe them... that's your fault.
Khomeni's words have been totally distorted.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
...
no... he said shit like, "If one permits an infidel to continue in his role as a corrupter of the earth, his moral suffering will be all the worse. If one kills the infidel, and this stops him from perpetrating his misdeeds, his death will be a blessing to him."
He didn't like us... and he may have had his reasons... and he may have been right. Still, the guy wanted us dead... he hated us.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
no... he said shit like, "If one permits an infidel to continue in his role as a corrupter of the earth, his moral suffering will be all the worse. If one kills the infidel, and this stops him from perpetrating his misdeeds, his death will be a blessing to him."
He didn't like us... and he may have had his reasons... and he may have been right. Still, the guy wanted us dead... he hated us.
Who is "Us"?
Infidel refers to an atheist if I'm not mistaken. That's a small percentage of the world. I'm an atheist and personally I don't care what some dude in the Mid-East is saying about me, some day he will learn reality or he will die ignorant, matters not to me.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
No, you are indeed mistaken. In fact, you are a worse infidel than I am because you are not a "person of the book." We are still both infidels though.
Actually the word Infidel has about 10 meanings, both of us were right. An infidel to a christian would be a muslim or an atheist, to a muslim it would be a christian or an atheist.
Wow, all you religious fanatics don't like us realistic folks eh?
I still don't care, you live your life however you are going to live it. I can try to give you some logic but it's not going to suit your megalomania.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Infidel refers to an atheist if I'm not mistaken. That's a small percentage of the world. I'm an atheist and personally I don't care what some dude in the Mid-East is saying about me, some day he will learn reality or he will die ignorant, matters not to me.
...
No... we're infidels. We don't devote our liveds to God. We don't say our prayers 5 times a day... we love money... we love sex... we are infidels.
When Khomeni referred to 'The Great Satan'... he meant us.
...
The funny... pathetic... ironic twist in all of this. The Great Satan himself has delivered the secularist Iraq to him... something he couldn't do for the 8 years he was at war to accomplish that very thing. I guess they can chalk one up for Allah... who tricked the Great Satan to knock down the obstacle in Iran's way.
...
I don't take what any religious nutcase has to say too seriously. They cannot make me react into stupid action I will regret tomorrow.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
No... we're infidels. We don't devote our liveds to God. We don't say our prayers 5 times a day... we love money... we love sex... we are infidels.
When Khomeni referred to 'The Great Satan'... he meant us.
...
The funny... pathetic... ironic twist in all of this. The Great Satan himself has delivered the secularist Iraq to him... something he couldn't do for the 8 years he was at war to accomplish that very thing. I guess they can chalk one up for Allah... who tricked the Great Satan to knock down the obstacle in Iran's way.
...
I don't take what any religious nutcase has to say too seriously. They cannot make me react into stupid action I will regret tomorrow.
I find it utterly amazing that no one stops to think about why they believe what they believe, to really truly see that it is megalomania.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I find it utterly amazing that no one stops to think about why they believe what they believe, to really truly see that it is megalomania.
Most people believe what they are told by authority figures. Some people think for themselves. It's not that amazing that religion still banes mankind.
1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
Comments
Not!
I'm a skeptic, those GW freaks may have converted Michael Shermer, but they haven't got to me yet. I'm the real skeptic.
One thing that has got me though is destiny theory. Can't argue with that.
I see plenty of things that you don't. Except what I see is real. I see the inner workings of society, relations, etc.. I can predict actions and events with relative certainty. All based on the knowledge that there is no God, there is no devine force, even human beings are systematic machines. Everything is as predictable as it is predetermined.
That's the most pessimistic worldview I've ever heard.
-Enoch Powell
It's the most realistic view of reality there is.
When you throw a ball, the ball doesn't just decide to take off into outerspace circle the moon 3 times and fly back to the park it came from. It does exactly what it is destined to do. Everything does.
If person A punches person B in the face:
Will person A feel pain? Yes
Will person A be upset? Yes
If person A gets robbed by person B:
Will person A be upset? Yes
Will person A go to the police? Yes
These are almost totally invariable, there are some extenuating cirumstances where person A will not make these deliberations. However these "circumstances" are examples of catalysts to normal human deliberation.
These are very basic, stimulus - response actions. When you get into love and so on it becomes more complicated, but even the science of love is proven to be completely systematic.
Ahnimus, you're not a Skeptic. You don't even have a philosophy, as far as I can tell. You simply boil all of reality down to a poor understanding of Newton's laws.
Children want to be loved so that they can take advantage of their parents largesse. In that sense, your God isn't very different. But this is taking this argument to a level that now ignores your earlier contention.
All the arguments you've made in "favor" of Christianity being "reasonable" can easily be applied to Islam, as can all my counter arguments. I can only hope you think about them before setting off on yet another wonderful adventure to prove who's faith is stronger by seeing who can extract the most blood from the other.
WTF? Have you read Hawking's "A Brief History of Time"?
Have you any idea at all?
i knew you were going to say that
I believe that the person would need to do it for almost the current age of the universe- the bigger an object, the less likely it is to occur. However it does occur billions of times every second in the quantum world.
As for the god thing... You are right, in that god cannot be disproven by science, only in the way that science cannot disprove tooth fairies etc. Science can demonstrate that both have an exceptionally low probability of occuring and therefore their existence is at best, very unikely.
That's not true at all. Love has absolutely nothing to do with a desire for largesse. Try again.
-Enoch Powell
I also recall the threats, 'Mother of All Battles' and 'rivers running red with the blood of the infidels'... you are a wuss if you are scared of these assholes.
Hail, Hail!!!
No one is scared of these assholes.
He was pointing out how fucking insane they are.
-Enoch Powell
That's totally ignorant.
Yeah... they talk a lot of shit, don't they? And guess what? They ALWAYS have. Remember the shit Ayatollah Khomeni used to say? Yeah... keep an eye on the fuckers, but don't react on account of their ramblings... that's what they want. They talk a lot of shit... if you believe them... that's your fault.
Hail, Hail!!!
Khomeni's words have been totally distorted.
no... he said shit like, "If one permits an infidel to continue in his role as a corrupter of the earth, his moral suffering will be all the worse. If one kills the infidel, and this stops him from perpetrating his misdeeds, his death will be a blessing to him."
He didn't like us... and he may have had his reasons... and he may have been right. Still, the guy wanted us dead... he hated us.
Hail, Hail!!!
Who is "Us"?
Infidel refers to an atheist if I'm not mistaken. That's a small percentage of the world. I'm an atheist and personally I don't care what some dude in the Mid-East is saying about me, some day he will learn reality or he will die ignorant, matters not to me.
No, you are indeed mistaken. In fact, you are a worse infidel than I am because you are not a "person of the book." We are still both infidels though.
-Enoch Powell
Actually the word Infidel has about 10 meanings, both of us were right. An infidel to a christian would be a muslim or an atheist, to a muslim it would be a christian or an atheist.
Wow, all you religious fanatics don't like us realistic folks eh?
I still don't care, you live your life however you are going to live it. I can try to give you some logic but it's not going to suit your megalomania.
No... we're infidels. We don't devote our liveds to God. We don't say our prayers 5 times a day... we love money... we love sex... we are infidels.
When Khomeni referred to 'The Great Satan'... he meant us.
...
The funny... pathetic... ironic twist in all of this. The Great Satan himself has delivered the secularist Iraq to him... something he couldn't do for the 8 years he was at war to accomplish that very thing. I guess they can chalk one up for Allah... who tricked the Great Satan to knock down the obstacle in Iran's way.
...
I don't take what any religious nutcase has to say too seriously. They cannot make me react into stupid action I will regret tomorrow.
Hail, Hail!!!
I find it utterly amazing that no one stops to think about why they believe what they believe, to really truly see that it is megalomania.