Radical islam: we drink our enemies blood
miller8966
Posts: 1,450
Just chilling how stone cold these mutants can be.
DUBLIN, Ireland (CNN) -- At a recent debate over the battle for Islamic ideals in England, a British-born Muslim stood before the crowd and said Prophet Mohammed's message to nonbelievers is: "I come to slaughter all of you."
"We are the Muslims," said Omar Brooks, an extremist also known as Abu Izzadeen. "We drink the blood of the enemy, and we can face them anywhere. That is Islam and that is jihad."
Anjem Choudary, the public face of Islamist extremism in Britain, added that Muslims have no choice but to take the fight to the West.
"What are Muslims supposed to do when they are being killed in the streets in Afghanistan and Baghdad and Palestine? Do they not have the same rights to defend themselves? In war, people die. People don't make love; they kill each other," he said. (Audio slide show: Preying on Britain's young Muslims)
But in the same debate, held on the prestigious grounds of Dublin's Trinity College in October, many people in the crowd objected.
"These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.
"This is not ideology. It's a mental illness." (Watch 'No chance in hell' )
'Foreign policy has a lot to do with it'
This war of words is part of a larger debate going on in Britain -- the war within the Muslim community for the hearts and minds of young people. The battle of ideas came to the fore again this week when the trial began for six men who are accused of an "extremist Muslim plot" to target London on July 21, 2005.
The Woolwich Crown Court was told the men plotted to carry out a series of "murderous suicide bombings" on London's public transport system, just 14 days after the carnage of the July 7 London bombings, which killed 52 commuters and four bombers.
While Islamic extremists are believed to be a tiny minority of Britain's 1.6 million Muslims, they have no problem having their criticism heard. They have disdain for democracy -- and, most of all, the Bush administration's war on terror policies.
A poll taken in June 2006 for the Times of London newspaper suggested that 13 percent of British Muslims believe the July 7 London bombers were martyrs. (CNN's Christiane Amanpour investigates "The War Within" in a one-hour documentary Satuday and Sunday at 8 p.m. ET.)
"Foreign policy has a lot to do with it," said Hanif Qadir, a youth worker and a moderate voice for Islam in Walthamstow, one of London's biggest Muslim neighborhoods. "But it's the minority radical groups that use that to get to our young people."
In August, British police descended on Walthamstow, saying they had foiled a conspiracy to blow up a dozen U.S.-bound airliners with liquid explosives. That set off the biggest security alert since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Police arrested 24 people in connection with the alleged terror plot, although one man was released after it was determined he was an innocent bystander.
Britain's Scotland Yard and MI5 have also said they are aware of at least 30 terrorist cells and potential plots inside Britain.
'Blowing people up is quite cool'
Young Muslims are easy prey, Qadir told CNN, because they believe the British government crackdown has scapegoated them because of their religious beliefs. The youth also can empathize with those who castigate the Bush administration.
There are some who believe "blowing people up is quite cool," Qadir said.
Qadir asked them why that was justified.
"The answers that I got back is: When a bomb goes off in Baghdad or in Afghanistan and innocent women and children are killed over there, who cares for them? So if a bomb goes off in America or in London, what's wrong with that?" he said.
Qadir is trying to get mosque leaders, many still practicing the tribal traditions of Pakistan, to communicate with the younger generation. But he says it is an uphill battle when radicals like Choudary dominate the debate, getting their faces -- and their message -- out in the public.
"Our scholars ... are not coming out of their holes -- their mosques and their holes -- to engage with these people. They're frightened of that," Qadir said.
The message of extremism can also thrive among youth who see no way out of ethnic ghettos.
"They're into all kinds of vices -- street crime, gun crime, drugs, car theft, credit card fraud. But then now you've got another threat," Qadir said.
"The new threat is radicalism. It's a cause. Every young man wants a cause."
Activist calls for Islamic law
Choudary, whose group Al-Mahajiroun disbanded before the British government could outlaw it under its anti-terror laws, spoke to CNN and made clear he wants to see Islamic law for Britain.
"All of the world belongs to Allah, and we will live according to the Sharia wherever we are," said Choudary, a lawyer. "This is a fundamental belief of the Muslims." (Watch a call for Islamic law )
Asked if he believes in democracy, he said, "No, I don't at all."
"One day, the Sharia will be implemented in Britain. It's a matter of time."
Choudary cited the videotaped "will" of one of the London subway bombers, Mohammed Sidique Khan, who said, "Until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people, we will not stop this fight."
Choudary said he sides strongly with that statement -- "we have everything we need in those wills" -- and he cited passages from the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that he says justify jihad.
"I happen to be in an ideological and political war," Choudary said. "My brothers in al Qaeda and other Mujahedeen are involved in a military campaign."
While Choudary and other radicals continue to try to spread their beliefs, others say there is no justification for jihad in England. Imam Usama Hasan memorized the Quran by the time he was 11 and at 19, he briefly fought in Afghanistan against the Soviets.
"If you have the wrong intention, you can justify your criminal actions from any text -- whether it's the Quran or Bible or Shakespeare," Hasan said.
He said it makes him "furious" when radicals quote the Quran out of context to justify killing of innocents. It's a "very tiny" minority with such beliefs, he said, but "it only takes a handful, of course, to create devastation."
"Many people are terrified of Muslims. They are terrified of a brother walking down the road with his eastern dress and his hat and his beard, because they have seen these images associated with suicide bombers," he said.
"It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people to tell them that ... the message of Islam is not about bits of cloth. It is not about the beard or head scarf or the face veil or violence. It is about peace."
DUBLIN, Ireland (CNN) -- At a recent debate over the battle for Islamic ideals in England, a British-born Muslim stood before the crowd and said Prophet Mohammed's message to nonbelievers is: "I come to slaughter all of you."
"We are the Muslims," said Omar Brooks, an extremist also known as Abu Izzadeen. "We drink the blood of the enemy, and we can face them anywhere. That is Islam and that is jihad."
Anjem Choudary, the public face of Islamist extremism in Britain, added that Muslims have no choice but to take the fight to the West.
"What are Muslims supposed to do when they are being killed in the streets in Afghanistan and Baghdad and Palestine? Do they not have the same rights to defend themselves? In war, people die. People don't make love; they kill each other," he said. (Audio slide show: Preying on Britain's young Muslims)
But in the same debate, held on the prestigious grounds of Dublin's Trinity College in October, many people in the crowd objected.
"These people, ladies and gentleman, have a good look at them. They actually believe if you kill women and children, you will go to heaven," said one young Muslim who waved his finger at the radicals.
"This is not ideology. It's a mental illness." (Watch 'No chance in hell' )
'Foreign policy has a lot to do with it'
This war of words is part of a larger debate going on in Britain -- the war within the Muslim community for the hearts and minds of young people. The battle of ideas came to the fore again this week when the trial began for six men who are accused of an "extremist Muslim plot" to target London on July 21, 2005.
The Woolwich Crown Court was told the men plotted to carry out a series of "murderous suicide bombings" on London's public transport system, just 14 days after the carnage of the July 7 London bombings, which killed 52 commuters and four bombers.
While Islamic extremists are believed to be a tiny minority of Britain's 1.6 million Muslims, they have no problem having their criticism heard. They have disdain for democracy -- and, most of all, the Bush administration's war on terror policies.
A poll taken in June 2006 for the Times of London newspaper suggested that 13 percent of British Muslims believe the July 7 London bombers were martyrs. (CNN's Christiane Amanpour investigates "The War Within" in a one-hour documentary Satuday and Sunday at 8 p.m. ET.)
"Foreign policy has a lot to do with it," said Hanif Qadir, a youth worker and a moderate voice for Islam in Walthamstow, one of London's biggest Muslim neighborhoods. "But it's the minority radical groups that use that to get to our young people."
In August, British police descended on Walthamstow, saying they had foiled a conspiracy to blow up a dozen U.S.-bound airliners with liquid explosives. That set off the biggest security alert since the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Police arrested 24 people in connection with the alleged terror plot, although one man was released after it was determined he was an innocent bystander.
Britain's Scotland Yard and MI5 have also said they are aware of at least 30 terrorist cells and potential plots inside Britain.
'Blowing people up is quite cool'
Young Muslims are easy prey, Qadir told CNN, because they believe the British government crackdown has scapegoated them because of their religious beliefs. The youth also can empathize with those who castigate the Bush administration.
There are some who believe "blowing people up is quite cool," Qadir said.
Qadir asked them why that was justified.
"The answers that I got back is: When a bomb goes off in Baghdad or in Afghanistan and innocent women and children are killed over there, who cares for them? So if a bomb goes off in America or in London, what's wrong with that?" he said.
Qadir is trying to get mosque leaders, many still practicing the tribal traditions of Pakistan, to communicate with the younger generation. But he says it is an uphill battle when radicals like Choudary dominate the debate, getting their faces -- and their message -- out in the public.
"Our scholars ... are not coming out of their holes -- their mosques and their holes -- to engage with these people. They're frightened of that," Qadir said.
The message of extremism can also thrive among youth who see no way out of ethnic ghettos.
"They're into all kinds of vices -- street crime, gun crime, drugs, car theft, credit card fraud. But then now you've got another threat," Qadir said.
"The new threat is radicalism. It's a cause. Every young man wants a cause."
Activist calls for Islamic law
Choudary, whose group Al-Mahajiroun disbanded before the British government could outlaw it under its anti-terror laws, spoke to CNN and made clear he wants to see Islamic law for Britain.
"All of the world belongs to Allah, and we will live according to the Sharia wherever we are," said Choudary, a lawyer. "This is a fundamental belief of the Muslims." (Watch a call for Islamic law )
Asked if he believes in democracy, he said, "No, I don't at all."
"One day, the Sharia will be implemented in Britain. It's a matter of time."
Choudary cited the videotaped "will" of one of the London subway bombers, Mohammed Sidique Khan, who said, "Until you stop the bombing, gassing, imprisonment and torture of my people, we will not stop this fight."
Choudary said he sides strongly with that statement -- "we have everything we need in those wills" -- and he cited passages from the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that he says justify jihad.
"I happen to be in an ideological and political war," Choudary said. "My brothers in al Qaeda and other Mujahedeen are involved in a military campaign."
While Choudary and other radicals continue to try to spread their beliefs, others say there is no justification for jihad in England. Imam Usama Hasan memorized the Quran by the time he was 11 and at 19, he briefly fought in Afghanistan against the Soviets.
"If you have the wrong intention, you can justify your criminal actions from any text -- whether it's the Quran or Bible or Shakespeare," Hasan said.
He said it makes him "furious" when radicals quote the Quran out of context to justify killing of innocents. It's a "very tiny" minority with such beliefs, he said, but "it only takes a handful, of course, to create devastation."
"Many people are terrified of Muslims. They are terrified of a brother walking down the road with his eastern dress and his hat and his beard, because they have seen these images associated with suicide bombers," he said.
"It is up to us to dispel that fear -- to smile at people to tell them that ... the message of Islam is not about bits of cloth. It is not about the beard or head scarf or the face veil or violence. It is about peace."
America...the greatest Country in the world.
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Tell that to 3000 dead ground troops.
Will they be able to hear me? Should they have been or be there?
Anyway, it was a context thing.
Yeah, I got what your trying to say, but it was dumb. :rolleyes:
But so predictable from 3 or 4 regulars that it has become tiresome and ineffective.
Wow, you and the above poster must be a worried bunch. I didn't see the word America used except in the story posted.
I'm going to go way out on a limb and assume your initial post in this thread wasn't referring to Canada.
Hehe..."worried" about what? I'm just wondering what your response would be to a thread wherein an American politician used the exact same words? Would you invoke suicide bombers in the same fashion you invoke battleships as your sole response?
Feel free to rephrase my original statement then with Britain in place of America. The hypocrisy remains the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Izzadeen
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html
Man, this is the evil logic that is destroying this world, be it in Kabul or be it in New York City.
True Islamic teaching is opposed to reason. How could its followers see the world any differently?
-Enoch Powell
Yes. But so is true teaching of any religion.
By abandoning the lies they've been tought, of course.
Not for me. I would be equally impressed by seeing revenge exacted in the same way it gets dished out. First to figure out who was wrong in the first place. But I am sure of one thing my man. If some other country was able to lob/toss/shoot whatever word you feel like choosing the same weapons that get tossed about their countries. I don't think there would be more than the two or three mouth pieces for your government saying too much about war being cool. And that I think you can agree with. I just happen to see the world a different way. I like when the bully is stupid enough to keep coming back for more. It makes my time in space very interesting and dangerous all in one time.
You must get sick of reading how bad America is just as much as how evil brown people can be. Eh? (that is a canadian thing)
False.
-Enoch Powell
Really? Try understanding this: if suicide bombing is defensible, so are battleships.
Hehe...
I'm sure you're impressed with revenge, and I'm sure you enjoy it in all its forms. It's probably the only thing your mind can muster when it seeks desperately for a form a justice.
Many other nations throughout history are certainly able to fight the United States with the exact same weapons we use to do so. That hasn't stopped the warhawks here or there.
If you like when the bully is stupid enough to keep "coming back for more", do you also like it when the bully's victim is depraved enough to adopt the bullies methodologies?
Not really. I've been reading how bad America is for a long time, but I've seen the evidence to the contrary. And I've been reading how evil brown people can be for a long time too, but I've known the evidence to the contrary.
What I am sick of is people who think they're anti-war yet who are married to a logic that demands it. And I'm sick of people who think they can find a morality by destroying it.
Really? Where is the objective dividing line of reason between Islam and Christianity?
You give us a nose bleed...we give you death.
Ugh...
well they kind of do look like mutants.
xmen 4: Wolverine invades pakistan!
What is wrong with you man? Seriously, I'm not trying to ask in an offensive way, I'm just trying to understand where this stuff comes from.
Christianity bases morality on faith and reason. Dual faith and reason.
Islam bases it on faith.
-Enoch Powell
I am not as impressed with revenge as I am with the new ways that come to people's minds when they carry it out. Ah, justice. Please expain this to me. I don't quite understand it. At least not the version you may be trying to get across to me, that I am supposed to be exercising.
I am not anti-war. I know I have never stated that. But I do know when to question things that I think have a line between right and wrong. As in you are in the wrong country and making up excuses as the kills mount.
Dual faith and reason??? I'm not even sure where to begin with this....
Ok. Let's say that I tell you that 2+2 = 4.5 because, well 2+2 = 4 because of math and the .5 comes in because God says so. Is that an example of "dual faith and reason"?
Yep, and we all know the Ten Commandments get their authority from fact, not God, right?
Justice is the process of treating men as who they are. It is the process of matching your judgment precisely to their acts, and acting accordingly.
Revenge is the ultimate violation of this. If one judges an aggressive act as wrong, justice can never be found in embracing the same acts. That is the complete opposite of justice.
You are not anti-war? Then please, ignore the latter half of my last post. Your words make much more sense to me now. I guess I can only wonder now why you would even mind the battleships or the bombs.
Thought you guys might like to read this exchange... it is pretty impressive to me - at least the argument that religion is completely void of reason.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/209/story_20904.html
When you base morality on faith and reason, you admit that you do not have all of the answers, but you know where they come from.
Science may fail to explain the existence of God, but science cannot explain everything.
Science cannot explain some things that exist.
Science may not explain God.
Therefore, God may exist.
That's my own personal simplified argument for the existence of God. Science cannot explain the existence of life. It can explain evolution, but it cannot explain what caused evolution to begin. Experiments cannot replicate the beginnings of evolution.
Science cannot explain the milliseconds immediately preceding the big bang. Time can only be accounted for up to a certain point after the big bang.
Science cannot explain why many things exist. But, is that science's job? Is science not merely a creation of man, which is meant for us to better understand the physical world? How can it help us understand the spiritual world, if we do indeed believe that it exists? There are many people who believe in the spiritual - why can't science help them?
God consistently reveals himself to humanity in any number of ways. He reveals morality through scripture and teaching, but he also created mankind with a purpose. Christians believe that this purpose and morality can never contradict one another. This is the reason part of it. When God says something is wrong, it is not only wrong because he said so but also because, if that something was right, it would be contrary to reason.
Muslims believe that God can say something is right even if it is contrary to reason. They believe that it was moral when Muhammad encouraged the murder of innocent women and children. If Allah says this is moral, then Islam must be irrational since Allah also created mankind. Surely Allah would not encourage innocent people to be killed or else mankind would cease to be. Surely Allah created mankind so that mankind would live and not immediately die out.
There are Muslims who attempt to align faith and reason in their religion. But, this is impossible. God cannot say that murdering innocents is moral if he also created those innocents.
So, I realize that science cannot explain faith, but science cannot explain many things. Therefore, we shouldn't discount faith entirely, unless it is faith without reason. In Christianity, faith and reason run together seamlessly.
-Enoch Powell
Andrew Sullivan said it better than I:
"…I do not see reason as somehow in conflict with faith - since both are reconciled by a Truth that may yet be beyond our understanding."
-Enoch Powell