The Clinton Smear Machine is already hard at work! After the Clinton Mafia is done with this guy, he'll be lucky if he doesn't end up in a cell in Gitmo:
Hillary's team has questions about Obama's Muslim background
Are the American people ready for an elected president who was educated in a Madrassa as a young boy and has not been forthcoming about his Muslim heritage?
This is the question Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton’s camp is asking about Sen. Barack Obama.
An investigation of Mr. Obama by political opponents within the Democratic Party has discovered that Mr. Obama was raised as a Muslim by his stepfather in Indonesia. Sources close to the background check, which has not yet been released, said Mr. Obama, 45, spent at least four years in a so-called Madrassa, or Muslim seminary, in Indonesia.
"He was a Muslim, but he concealed it," the source said. "His opponents within the Democrats hope this will become a major issue in the campaign."
When contacted by Insight, Mr. Obama’s press secretary said he would consult with “his boss” and call back. He did not.
Sources said the background check, conducted by researchers connected to Senator Clinton, disclosed details of Mr. Obama's Muslim past. The sources said the Clinton camp concluded the Illinois Democrat concealed his prior Muslim faith and education.
"The background investigation will provide major ammunition to his opponents," the source said. "The idea is to show Obama as deceptive."
In two best-selling autobiographies—"The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" and "Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance"—Mr. Obama, born in Honolulu where his parents met, mentions but does not expand on his Muslim background, alluding only to his attendance at a "predominantly Muslim school."
The sources said the young Obama was given the name Hussein by his Muslim father, which the Illinois Democrat rarely uses in public.
The sources said the background check concerned Mr. Obama's years in Jakarta. In Indonesia, the young Obama was enrolled in a Madrassa and was raised and educated as a Muslim. Although Indonesia is regarded as a moderate Muslim state, the U.S. intelligence community has determined that today most of these schools are financed by the Saudi Arabian government and they teach a Wahhabi doctrine that denies the rights of non-Muslims.
Although the background check has not confirmed that the specific Madrassa Mr. Obama attended was espousing Wahhabism, the sources said his Democratic opponents believe this to be the case—and are seeking to prove it. The sources said the opponents are searching for evidence that Mr. Obama is still a Muslim or has ties to Islam.
Mr. Obama attends services at Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago’s South Side. However, he is not known to be a regular parishioner.
"Obama's education began a life-long relationship with Islam as a faith and Muslims as a community," the source said. "This has been a relationship that contains numerous question marks."
The sources said Mr. Obama spent at least four years in a Muslim school in Indonesia. They said when Mr. Obama was 10, his mother and her second husband separated. She and her son returned to Hawaii.
"Then the official biography begins," the source said. "Obama never returned to Kenya to see relatives or family until it became politically expedient."
In both of his autobiographies, Mr. Obama characterizes himself as a Christian—although he describes his upbringing as mostly secular.
In “The Audacity of Hope,” Mr. Obama says, "I was not raised in a religious household." He describes his mother as secular, but says she had copies of the Bible, the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita in their home.
Mr. Obama says his father was "raised a Muslim, but by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist...." Mr. Obama also describes his father as largely absent from his life. He says his Indonesian stepfather was "skeptical" about religion and "saw religion as not particularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world ...."
In the book, Mr. Obama briefly addresses his education in Indonesia. "During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables."
The sources said Ms. Clinton regards Mr. Obama as her most formidable opponent and the biggest obstacle to the Democratic Party’s 2008 presidential nomination. They said Ms. Clinton has been angered by Mr. Obama's efforts to tap her supporters for donations.
In late 2006, when the Illinois senator demonstrated his intention to run for president, the Clinton campaign ordered a background check on Mr. Obama, the sources said. Earlier this week, Mr. Obama established an exploratory committee, the first step toward a formal race.
HELLO-- news source? We need to see where you got this article. I can't believe that this thread is three pages long and no one questions the source of this garbage. Everyone seems to just want to jump in and bash Hillary now without knowing if this is even TRUE? Pretty sad.
hillary clinton... is not very likeable. but if she is the nominee, and the Republican nominee is more unlikeable, she wins.
it's a very simple formula.
I don't agree with this at all. I think if Hillary gets he nom. then the Republicans win...simple as that. It won't matter who they run against her because she has a terrible personality, she is a woman (this fact will hurt her in the polls, don't care what you say, it's sad but true), and she flip flops on issues, doesn't take much of a stand on things. She won't win
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
after reading alot of the replies on this post, its obvious, that here is where the problem lies in america. everyone is so quick to judge an individual based on gender or religious belief. what we need to keep in mind here. is that for the past 12 years now, we have seen some of the most corrupt and selfish acts by our leaders, more-so than ever in the history of the US. What is important is that we look beyond these superficial characteristics and try and find the individuals that best portray and takes into consideration what is in the best interest of the american people. something we still cannot get from our president to this day. I dont care rep. or dem. we need to start electing people that have our interests at heart. Try and look at things on a more level playing field. the american people voted out the republican party due to some ignorant and foolish policies that have failed the american people miserably (the war is one major factor). and still, they ignore the american people and continue to push their failed policies in Iraq. Lets send more troops. that is not what americans voted for, yet, our leader ignores us. This is not having the american interest at heart. I pay taxes, i work to support my family. I thrive to be an honorable, respectable decent citezen. I am sick of being shit on by power happy thugs. I dont know about you, but i would sure like a change. regardles of race, or gender or religion.
"We as individuals are art...Our minds are the beauty!"
I don't agree with this at all. I think if Hillary gets he nom. then the Republicans win...simple as that. It won't matter who they run against her because she has a terrible personality, she is a woman (this fact will hurt her in the polls, don't care what you say, it's sad but true), and she flip flops on issues, doesn't take much of a stand on things. She won't win
Flip flop! whatever, flip flopping is a natural occurance. The truth is, flip flopping is a sign of reading emotions both yours and others, understanding change and most imortantly using some logic via an open mind. If you dont flip flop, then you are probably stubborn, which is worse than flip flopping ten fold. And if Bush won election then Hillary can as well. Bush has the personality of a fart, which may be a compliment. As for the woman aspects, think of the votes she will gain. One amongst the female voters, the gay voters not to mention those hardcore dems who understand her successful track record as a figure in human services. I think that the bad rep. really bruised the image of rep. with alot of the scandals, not to mention bushs continued ignorance.
"We as individuals are art...Our minds are the beauty!"
Just because Obama would first need to face Hillary / Edwards / Biden et al. (or et Al) in the primaries doesn't mean he wouldn't have to face Karl Rove and or the next incarnation of the Republican campaign machine if he were to win the nomination. Everyone posting about whether this is worse / not as bad as what Bush did to McCain is forgetting that whoever the Democrats nominate will still face this sort to pressure from the Repbulicans come the general election. For this reason I think it's off target to resent or blame any candidate for attacking any other candidate, esspecially in the primaries.
Running for President is a Zero Sum game, and I personally believe that if you don't have what it takes to get elected president, then you shouldn't be president.
Take the Bush admin. Like it or hate it, the Bush admin has a lot of powerful support. If Kerry couldn't bottle and beat the Bush machine when he was running for president, does anyone think it would have simply rolled up and gone away if he'd been elected? Same with Al Gore.
I know the ideal is to say that we should support the candidate with the highest ethical standards... but this is politics. It's only because we have things so great in America compared to other countries that we forget that politics brought the world Stalin, Hitler, and the Killing Fields of Cambodia.
Whatever one thinks of Bush, one has to recognize that with this administration such concerns are serious again. In other words, if one takes Bush at his word, one recognizes there is a global war on. If one doesn't take him at his word, one sees the country as having been hijacked by a group that stole an election to start a war. I'm not going to get into saying which I believe. The point is that whatever side one is on, it should be clear at this point that the political situation is downright DANGEROUS and whoever is elected president had darn well better be able to hold his or her own in a Dangerous arena.
Whether one believes we are in a global war, as the Bush admin says, or in the midst of a hijacking of the political system by the current administration, the next person elected president needs to BEAT one of those forces. There is no room for someone who can just make a good argument. We need someone who can win and commandingly defeat the opposition.
If Hillary doesn't throw this stuff at Obama one can be sure the Republicans will, and if he can't take that pitch when it's thrown at him, and knock it out of the park, then he has no business standing at the plate.
These are the majors, not little league.
That having been said, if Obama is half the man he's been hyped to be I don't see any reason he can't take these assertions about his schooling and upbringing and turn them to his own advantage.
All he needs to do is stress that he was a child at the time, in the care of his father, that it was his father's decision for him to attend this school, not his own, and that in the country he was living in at the time (Indonesia) going to a madrass was about the same as going to a public school is here. From there he can make observations about the growing intolerance in America, and the out of focus priorities of a politics of personal destruction.
I don't think these assertions would or could be anywhere near enough to derail Obama... *IF* he is the right person for the job.
If he isn't... then better to find that out in the primaries and knock him out early.
There is only going to be one President, and only one person left standing at the end of the next election cycle. *IF* this story is true, and Hillary is throwing this stuff at Obama, so what? If he's the right man for the job, he'll turn it to his own advantage, and it will back fire on her, and knock her out of the race. Will people then be blaming Obama for being negative? All but one of the people running for president will go down. That's what the process is for. To find the strongest person, and *hope* the strongest person is the *right* person. In a free country where people have different views, unfortunately there is no test for who is "correct" and who is "wrong" until *after* history has been written.
Until then politics is about making life difficult for those who are in it, and weeding out everyone except the people who can not be defeated. It is an imperfect system. It is not the way the system is usually represented, but that' s what is actually going on. It comes down to win or loose, and hoping the winner is the best person for the job.
HELLO-- news source? We need to see where you got this article. I can't believe that this thread is three pages long and no one questions the source of this garbage.
But I wonder, if he were to win the nomination who his running mate would be. edwards? haha. as always the dems are putting out a bad field.
I wouldn't mind an Obama/Biden ticket... Biden would help fill in the perceived Obama inexperience, especially on foreign relations. Two senators would be tough to elect though.
I would much prefer an Obama/Richardson ticket, but there is no way this country is voting for a black guy AND a hispanic.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
HELLO-- news source? We need to see where you got this article. I can't believe that this thread is three pages long and no one questions the source of this garbage. Everyone seems to just want to jump in and bash Hillary now without knowing if this is even TRUE? Pretty sad.
I've never heard of or been to this sight, but this article says what the original poster pasted. The site says it was Voted Hottest Conservative News Site By Rolling Stone Magazine. That ought to tell you something... well, no, it really doesn't.
I've never heard of or been to this sight, but this article says what the original poster pasted. The site says it was Voted Hottest Conservative News Site By Rolling Stone Magazine. That ought to tell you something... well, no, it really doesn't.
I've never heard of or been to this sight, but this article says what the original poster pasted. The site says it was Voted Hottest Conservative News Site By Rolling Stone Magazine. That ought to tell you something... well, no, it really doesn't.
Doesn't surprise me at all. The hard right is scared silly, i tell ya. They should be.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Doesn't surprise me at all. The hard right is scared silly, i tell ya. They should be.
That is very true. Running someone against Barrack Obama is like running someone against JFK or RFK, he just connects with people and that's what appeals to people. Sometimes that is the type of leader we need. Issues do matter, but sometimes we just need a leader.
That is very true. Running someone against Barrack Obama is like running someone against JFK or RFK, he just connects with people and that's what appeals to people. Sometimes that is the type of leader we need. Issues do matter, but sometimes we just need a leader.
For the most part, you're right. But there will be some voters who just won't vote for a woman, on principal. same with Obama. Have you noticed recently that Fox News refers to him as Barack Hussein Obama?
yeah! and today I was reading Boston's favorite tabloid, the Herald, and came across an op-ed by Cal Thomas (one of the most soulless pricks out there) and he casually referred to him as "Sen. Barack Hussein Obama". completely gratuitous! there was no journalistic reason for it... just a *nudge nudge* to his readers.
i definately think you're right about some people who won't vote for a woman, but i think that's probably counter-acted by those who would vote for her because she's a she.
Yeah he is a christian (well that's what he's said), but I think since his roots have islam in them that'll for sure hurt him. for some it's equal to having relatives that were nazis.
Or at least that's sometimes how they act.
---
I just don't like Obama because he's a democrat. eeeew
This last sentence right there is why the goddamn repulicans get as many votes as they do. MrBrian, I'm not trying to say you are republican by any means...what I am saying is that you and many other Americans refuse to vote for who you think is the best cause you identify yourself as being a Republican or a Democrat or a Green supporter, etc rather than an AMERICAN PERIOD! If you believe a candidate is the best for the job, who gives a fuck what party they are!!! Stop this whole "but I'm a ...insert party here...." shit and just VOTE for the guy! Don't vote for the head of your party by default, then bitch and moan about the poor choices he made later. Stand up and USE your power as a voter wisely!
That said...the muslim in his background, and his colour will hurt Obama greatly in a presidential election as you know the Republican fear machine will be at an all time high, and I'm sorry to my American Jammers here, but most of you Americans are too stupid to see though it. (yes there are some of who who are smart enough, but not enough of u), plus the south has a lot of electoral votes and are known to be more on the racist side. (again not all of you...but enough to swing the vote).
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
This last sentence right there is why the goddamn repulicans get as many votes as they do. MrBrian, I'm not trying to say you are republican by any means...what I am saying is that you and many other Americans refuse to vote for who you think is the best cause you identify yourself as being a Republican or a Democrat or a Green supporter, etc rather than an AMERICAN PERIOD! If you believe a candidate is the best for the job, who gives a fuck what party they are!!! Stop this whole "but I'm a ...insert party here...." shit and just VOTE for the guy! Don't vote for the head of your party by default, then bitch and moan about the poor choices he made later. Stand up and USE your power as a voter wisely!
That said...the muslim in his background, and his colour will hurt Obama greatly in a presidential election as you know the Republican fear machine will be at an all time high, and I'm sorry to my American Jammers here, but most of you Americans are too stupid to see though it. (yes there are some of who who are smart enough, but not enough of u), plus the south has a lot of electoral votes and are known to be more on the racist side. (again not all of you...but enough to swing the vote).
Most people here on AMT want some palpable change for the better. Obama is centrist at best. He is more of the same. I get the feeling that there's a large population out there, dimmed in the brain by the glare of years-on media and cultural manipulation that see Obama as a shake-up to the system because he is black, and, to me, that seems like a failure of our system in general.
If Clinton takes this path, I will not be able to vote for her under any circumstances. It is hypocrisy of the highest order.
Besides, if Obama has kept his religious background private, that is his right. The concept of separation of church and state, as well as freedom of religion apply.
This will really turn me against Hillary, or any other Democrat that considers this a valid path for criticism.
All politicians are hypocrites. It surprises me that you didn't know this already.
yeah! and today I was reading Boston's favorite tabloid, the Herald, and came across an op-ed by Cal Thomas (one of the most soulless pricks out there) and he casually referred to him as "Sen. Barack Hussein Obama". completely gratuitous! there was no journalistic reason for it... just a *nudge nudge* to his readers.
i definately think you're right about some people who won't vote for a woman, but i think that's probably counter-acted by those who would vote for her because she's a she.
You liberals call the president an asshole (and that is the nice things you say). But when a conservative calls a guy by his real name, that is soulless. Isn't it an editorial? Can't they write what they want? I guess not.
That is very true. Running someone against Barrack Obama is like running someone against JFK or RFK, he just connects with people and that's what appeals to people. Sometimes that is the type of leader we need. Issues do matter, but sometimes we just need a leader.
Maybe we just need someone to pass out some dope so we all just "feel" good.
No Christianity isn't oppresive at all. Except for the fact that my very own grandparents worry that my siblings and parents are "going to hell" because we don't go to church. Not oppresive at all. No pressure to join! :rolleyes:
If you don't think Christianity can be oppresive, go to Jesus camp.
No Christianity isn't oppresive at all. Except for the fact that my very own grandparents worry that my siblings and parents are "going to hell" because we don't go to church. Not oppresive at all. No pressure to join! :rolleyes:
If you don't think Christianity can be oppresive, go to Jesus camp.
Yeah, because fucking Jesus Camp is a fair and accurate representational cross-section of Christians and Christianity.
i award you a well deserved "sheesh".
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Yeah, because fucking Jesus Camp is a fair and accurate representational cross-section of Christians and Christianity.
i award you a well deserved "sheesh".
Yeah, because fucking Jesus Camp is a fair and accurate representational cross-section of Christians and Christianity.
i award you a well deserved "sheesh".
Comments
hehe, you know I kinda enjoyed seeing al sharpton run, it was fun to see him deabte and I gotta say, he sounded better than kerry.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
He lost to a man he should have beaten by a landslide....sure go ahead and run him, it would be my pleasure.
HELLO-- news source? We need to see where you got this article. I can't believe that this thread is three pages long and no one questions the source of this garbage. Everyone seems to just want to jump in and bash Hillary now without knowing if this is even TRUE? Pretty sad.
I don't agree with this at all. I think if Hillary gets he nom. then the Republicans win...simple as that. It won't matter who they run against her because she has a terrible personality, she is a woman (this fact will hurt her in the polls, don't care what you say, it's sad but true), and she flip flops on issues, doesn't take much of a stand on things. She won't win
that's original....lol
-Big Fish
Flip flop! whatever, flip flopping is a natural occurance. The truth is, flip flopping is a sign of reading emotions both yours and others, understanding change and most imortantly using some logic via an open mind. If you dont flip flop, then you are probably stubborn, which is worse than flip flopping ten fold. And if Bush won election then Hillary can as well. Bush has the personality of a fart, which may be a compliment. As for the woman aspects, think of the votes she will gain. One amongst the female voters, the gay voters not to mention those hardcore dems who understand her successful track record as a figure in human services. I think that the bad rep. really bruised the image of rep. with alot of the scandals, not to mention bushs continued ignorance.
Running for President is a Zero Sum game, and I personally believe that if you don't have what it takes to get elected president, then you shouldn't be president.
Take the Bush admin. Like it or hate it, the Bush admin has a lot of powerful support. If Kerry couldn't bottle and beat the Bush machine when he was running for president, does anyone think it would have simply rolled up and gone away if he'd been elected? Same with Al Gore.
I know the ideal is to say that we should support the candidate with the highest ethical standards... but this is politics. It's only because we have things so great in America compared to other countries that we forget that politics brought the world Stalin, Hitler, and the Killing Fields of Cambodia.
Whatever one thinks of Bush, one has to recognize that with this administration such concerns are serious again. In other words, if one takes Bush at his word, one recognizes there is a global war on. If one doesn't take him at his word, one sees the country as having been hijacked by a group that stole an election to start a war. I'm not going to get into saying which I believe. The point is that whatever side one is on, it should be clear at this point that the political situation is downright DANGEROUS and whoever is elected president had darn well better be able to hold his or her own in a Dangerous arena.
Whether one believes we are in a global war, as the Bush admin says, or in the midst of a hijacking of the political system by the current administration, the next person elected president needs to BEAT one of those forces. There is no room for someone who can just make a good argument. We need someone who can win and commandingly defeat the opposition.
If Hillary doesn't throw this stuff at Obama one can be sure the Republicans will, and if he can't take that pitch when it's thrown at him, and knock it out of the park, then he has no business standing at the plate.
These are the majors, not little league.
That having been said, if Obama is half the man he's been hyped to be I don't see any reason he can't take these assertions about his schooling and upbringing and turn them to his own advantage.
All he needs to do is stress that he was a child at the time, in the care of his father, that it was his father's decision for him to attend this school, not his own, and that in the country he was living in at the time (Indonesia) going to a madrass was about the same as going to a public school is here. From there he can make observations about the growing intolerance in America, and the out of focus priorities of a politics of personal destruction.
I don't think these assertions would or could be anywhere near enough to derail Obama... *IF* he is the right person for the job.
If he isn't... then better to find that out in the primaries and knock him out early.
There is only going to be one President, and only one person left standing at the end of the next election cycle. *IF* this story is true, and Hillary is throwing this stuff at Obama, so what? If he's the right man for the job, he'll turn it to his own advantage, and it will back fire on her, and knock her out of the race. Will people then be blaming Obama for being negative? All but one of the people running for president will go down. That's what the process is for. To find the strongest person, and *hope* the strongest person is the *right* person. In a free country where people have different views, unfortunately there is no test for who is "correct" and who is "wrong" until *after* history has been written.
Until then politics is about making life difficult for those who are in it, and weeding out everyone except the people who can not be defeated. It is an imperfect system. It is not the way the system is usually represented, but that' s what is actually going on. It comes down to win or loose, and hoping the winner is the best person for the job.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4072847&postcount=2
First reply.
naděje umírá poslední
I wouldn't mind an Obama/Biden ticket... Biden would help fill in the perceived Obama inexperience, especially on foreign relations. Two senators would be tough to elect though.
I would much prefer an Obama/Richardson ticket, but there is no way this country is voting for a black guy AND a hispanic.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Obama_2.htm
I've never heard of or been to this sight, but this article says what the original poster pasted. The site says it was Voted Hottest Conservative News Site By Rolling Stone Magazine. That ought to tell you something... well, no, it really doesn't.
Doesn't surprise me at all. The hard right is scared silly, i tell ya. They should be.
That is very true. Running someone against Barrack Obama is like running someone against JFK or RFK, he just connects with people and that's what appeals to people. Sometimes that is the type of leader we need. Issues do matter, but sometimes we just need a leader.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Since when is Hillary a member of the hard right?
yeah! and today I was reading Boston's favorite tabloid, the Herald, and came across an op-ed by Cal Thomas (one of the most soulless pricks out there) and he casually referred to him as "Sen. Barack Hussein Obama". completely gratuitous! there was no journalistic reason for it... just a *nudge nudge* to his readers.
i definately think you're right about some people who won't vote for a woman, but i think that's probably counter-acted by those who would vote for her because she's a she.
This last sentence right there is why the goddamn repulicans get as many votes as they do. MrBrian, I'm not trying to say you are republican by any means...what I am saying is that you and many other Americans refuse to vote for who you think is the best cause you identify yourself as being a Republican or a Democrat or a Green supporter, etc rather than an AMERICAN PERIOD! If you believe a candidate is the best for the job, who gives a fuck what party they are!!! Stop this whole "but I'm a ...insert party here...." shit and just VOTE for the guy! Don't vote for the head of your party by default, then bitch and moan about the poor choices he made later. Stand up and USE your power as a voter wisely!
That said...the muslim in his background, and his colour will hurt Obama greatly in a presidential election as you know the Republican fear machine will be at an all time high, and I'm sorry to my American Jammers here, but most of you Americans are too stupid to see though it. (yes there are some of who who are smart enough, but not enough of u), plus the south has a lot of electoral votes and are known to be more on the racist side. (again not all of you...but enough to swing the vote).
Most people here on AMT want some palpable change for the better. Obama is centrist at best. He is more of the same. I get the feeling that there's a large population out there, dimmed in the brain by the glare of years-on media and cultural manipulation that see Obama as a shake-up to the system because he is black, and, to me, that seems like a failure of our system in general.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
All politicians are hypocrites. It surprises me that you didn't know this already.
You liberals call the president an asshole (and that is the nice things you say). But when a conservative calls a guy by his real name, that is soulless. Isn't it an editorial? Can't they write what they want? I guess not.
Maybe we just need someone to pass out some dope so we all just "feel" good.
If you don't think Christianity can be oppresive, go to Jesus camp.
Yeah, because fucking Jesus Camp is a fair and accurate representational cross-section of Christians and Christianity.
i award you a well deserved "sheesh".
He said "can" be oppressive.
naděje umírá poslední
In that case, Collin, people on this board "can" be really fuckin stupid. If you don't believe me look at the guys post.
I said "can" be.