12 yr old has sex change

trappedinmyradio

soulsinging wrote:

i cant believ i agree with miller. how is this different? 12 year olds can consent to a sex change but not sex?

why is it different? by the time you are 12 you understand boys and girls...by that age you do not, except in the very rare occasion, understand sex.

and, NO KIDDING, about sex and gender identity being different things, which causes emotional problems when your gender identity does not match up with your sex.

trappedinmyradio

Kann wrote:

Actually, from what I know, puberty is the wrong age to go messing around with hormones.
If I'm correct (well, in fact I am) hormones have a lot (if not all) to do with sex drive for example (I won't bother looking it up but a patch to enhance lust - based on hormones - is on sale in some countries). Other biological studies show the brain keeps on changing throughout puberty under hormone stimulation. And by "the brain" I mean your psyche as well. I can't even believe an actual md had the right to do such a thing, and I can't understand how there are no laws on this subject.
ps : to the threadstarter, do you have the source?

in terms of sex assignment, it's the best time to do it because you have the opportunity to chemically stop certain sex-specific things from occurring, and, thus, via the same process, affecting the changes that you wish to occur.

Kann

trappedinmyradio wrote:

in terms of sex assignment, it's the best time to do it because you have the opportunity to chemically stop certain sex-specific things from occurring, and, thus, via the same process, affecting the changes that you wish to occur.

I understand why on a practical point of view it is the best time to do it. I just think that on an ethical point of view it's pure nonsense.

me wrote:

ps : to the threadstarter, do you have the source?

nevermind.

"Speaking to The Sunday Telegraph, he said that even though under-16s were not permitted to undergo a sex change in other countries, he and his colleagues felt that in this case it had been best to start earlier. He said: "To the best of my knowledge, Kim is the youngest sex change patient in the world. [....] Should Kim change her mind before the surgery, the procedure could be reversed. Doctors admit that the treatment involves a risk, however, and that its effects on children as young as Kim are not fully understood."

I still find this highly unethical.

ThumbingMyWay32

miller8966 wrote:

Her treatment, which has cost more than $40,000, is being funded by German taxpayers.

Somewhere Nancy Pelosi has a frozen smile on her face.


Sometimes I wonder what heaven is like... And then I read articles like this. Why can't we be more like Europe? Or California's 8th Congressional District? It would be nice for my government to atleast give me the neccesities of life... Food... Water... A Vagina...

angelica

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder what heaven is like... And then I read articles like this. Why can't we be more like Europe? Or California's 8th Congressional District? It would be nice for my government to atleast give me the neccesities of life... Food... Water... A Vagina...

Wow. Someone is objectifying women.....again.

ThumbingMyWay32

angelica wrote:

Wow. Someone is objectifying women.....again.

If they would have payed for a penis I would have said A Penis. Of course it's hard for me to get too excited about a penis because I already have one of my own.

angelica

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

If they would have payed for a penis I would have said A Penis. Of course it's hard for me to get too excited about a penis because I already have one of my own.

But of course.

Cosmo

Florida or Germany... the wierdest stories always seem to come from either Florida or Germany.
- Adam Carolla

The Illinoisemakers

trappedinmyradio wrote:

you said that...you called this individual a boy after, in the initial post, a psychiatrist was quoted as stating that this was an extreme case where a girl was stuck in a boy's body...thus placing your judgment above that of a trained professional.

you are transplanting your mora/ethic stance on someone else by condemning the government for paying to "fix" a person.

oh, and, i'm in west virginia...come on over...we can smash beer cans on our heads after you rescue me from my radio.

Great. I'll use the beer cans to smash up the giant radio you are stuck in and rescue you. I live in Seattle so hang on little buddy it will take me a little while to drive to West Virginia.

Was the boy/girl born with a working penis and all other traits inherit to a male? Yes therefore I called him a male. It seems to me that the doctor after evaluating him should have diagnosed him a male with gender issues or a sheman (for lack of a better term), but not a woman.

Why is it the gov't's responsibility to pay for this procedure? Its not life threatening. I think you're the one, as well as the German gov't, who is transplanting your moral/ethic stance on people when you decide it appropriate to spend others money on this procedure.

norm

Cosmo wrote:

Florida or Germany... the weirdest stories always seem to come from either Florida or Germany.
- Adam Carolla

Why is that true?:)

dg1979us

What exactly is a girl trapped in a boys body? Isnt the body actually what defines your gender in the first place?

Cosmo

cutback wrote:

Why is that true?:)

...
I don't know.. but, it seems to be.
Adam used to have this bit on KROQ's Loveline... a game show called 'Florida or Germany'. He'd read a wierd story about a guy getting his dick stuck in a Pepsi bottle and trying to free himself with a Bic Lighter and a pair of bolt cutters... and the callers would have to guess... Florida? Or... Germany?

sonicreducer

this is apalling. no 12 year old kid should ever have a fucking sex change. get that kid some extensive therapy. now every kid that reads this with some type of issue is going to manipulate this into some other 'change' issue.

Cosmo

dg1979us wrote:

What exactly is a girl trapped in a boys body? Isnt the body actually what defines your gender in the first place?

...
Like me... the Lesbian trapped in a man's body?
...
And... Note to self... "If, in 6 years from now and beyond... I am approached by a German girl named Kim that has gnarly hands and an adam's apple for a blow job and/or a piece of ass... kindly decline."

norm

Cosmo wrote:

...
I don't know.. but, it seems to be.
Adam used to have this bit on KROQ's Loveline... a game show called 'Florida or Germany'. He'd read a weird story about a guy getting his dick stuck in a Pepsi bottle and trying to free himself with a Bic Lighter and a pair of bolt cutters... and the callers would have to guess... Florida? Or... Germany?

Was it a German on vacation in Florida?;);)

soulsinging

trappedinmyradio wrote:

why is it different? by the time you are 12 you understand boys and girls...by that age you do not, except in the very rare occasion, understand sex.

and, NO KIDDING, about sex and gender identity being different things, which causes emotional problems when your gender identity does not match up with your sex.

12 year olds understand the societal roles boys and girls are supposed to play. maybe instead of expensive surgery that could have serious repercussions for this kid (injecting a pubescent boy with high levels of hormones sounds like a recipe for disaster, no matter what gender he thinks he is), we should focus on combatting the ridiculous norms of gender-based behavior that prevent this young boy from being able to comfortably express who he is.

what is the doctor's evaluation here? the kid likes to cook? doesn't care for football? how do you deem a 12 year old is a woman trapped in a man's body? what criteria would you use? he acknowledges they have no idea what the long-term effects of this will be on the kid's health, just that they THINK it MIGHT be better to do it now. the story reads to me like this doctor is using a fucked up kid as his guinea pig for some unethical hormone therapy, and managed to convince the child and his parents it was a good idea.

ive got no issue with transgender persons if that's what they want. but you wait until you're an adult and make a conscious and unguided decision to do it. you don't decide you're kid's a nancy boy and have the doc lop his dick off becos you think he's too confused to go on as a boy.

trappedinmyradio

you insist on saying "he" and that is where we fundamentally disagree...and then you say a "woman trapped in a man's body." you seem to be missing the fundamental issue here. a person can be comfortable NOW in society, instead of waiting until they are 18. you treat this as a hasty decision. i don't know the situation over there, but i can assure to a 99% certainty that this decision was made after a lengthy evaluation process.

are your only issues with this, (1) the age of the individual, and (2) the taxpayer's of germany picking up the tab?

soulsinging wrote:

12 year olds understand the societal roles boys and girls are supposed to play. maybe instead of expensive surgery that could have serious repercussions for this kid (injecting a pubescent boy with high levels of hormones sounds like a recipe for disaster, no matter what gender he thinks he is), we should focus on combatting the ridiculous norms of gender-based behavior that prevent this young boy from being able to comfortably express who he is.

what is the doctor's evaluation here? the kid likes to cook? doesn't care for football? how do you deem a 12 year old is a woman trapped in a man's body? what criteria would you use? he acknowledges they have no idea what the long-term effects of this will be on the kid's health, just that they THINK it MIGHT be better to do it now. the story reads to me like this doctor is using a fucked up kid as his guinea pig for some unethical hormone therapy, and managed to convince the child and his parents it was a good idea.

ive got no issue with transgender persons if that's what they want. but you wait until you're an adult and make a conscious and unguided decision to do it. you don't decide you're kid's a nancy boy and have the doc lop his dick off becos you think he's too confused to go on as a boy.

soulsinging

trappedinmyradio wrote:

you insist on saying "he" and that is where we fundamentally disagree...and then you say a "woman trapped in a man's body." you seem to be missing the fundamental issue here. a person can be comfortable NOW in society, instead of waiting until they are 18. you treat this as a hasty decision. i don't know the situation over there, but i can assure to a 99% certainty that this decision was made after a lengthy evaluation process.

are your only issues with this, (1) the age of the individual, and (2) the taxpayer's of germany picking up the tab?

my only issue is (1). i dont care what the taxpayers of germany decide to do with their money. but there is a reason we dont allow kids to make potentially life altering decisions... becos they are not mature enough to fully understand the consequences. you dont use kids as test subjects for experimental and controversial medical procedures. i fail to see any meaningful distinction between saying that a kid is fully able to consent to life-altering sex change operations, but not able to consent to sex, buying alcohol, voting, military service, or tobacco use.

RavennaSeattle1911

thats sick

but i dont beleive its true because you didnt leave a link

sapperskunk

trappedinmyradio wrote:

you said that...you called this individual a boy after, in the initial post, a psychiatrist was quoted as stating that this was an extreme case where a girl was stuck in a boy's body...thus placing your judgment above that of a trained professional.

you are transplanting your mora/ethic stance on someone else by condemning the government for paying to "fix" a person.

oh, and, i'm in west virginia...come on over...we can smash beer cans on our heads after you rescue me from my radio.

Weird, is that a coincidence. Do you know what illinoisemakers does for a living?