Muslim congressman "pushing" his faith

miller8966

Speaking in Dearborn late Sunday night, the first Muslim elected to Congress told a cheering crowd of Muslims they should remain steadfast in their faith and push for justice.

"You can't back down. You can't chicken out. You can't be afraid. You got to have faith in Allah, and you've got to stand up and be a real Muslim," Detroit native Keith Ellison said to loud applause.

Many in the crowd replied "Allahu akbar" -- God is great.

Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat elected to the U.S. House in November, has been the center of a national debate in recent weeks over Islam and its role in politics. Ellison has said he would take his oath of office on the Quran, the Muslim holy book, igniting a storm of criticism from some commentators

CorporateWhore

miller8966 wrote:

Speaking in Dearborn late Sunday night, the first Muslim elected to Congress told a cheering crowd of Muslims they should remain steadfast in their faith and push for justice.

"You can't back down. You can't chicken out. You can't be afraid. You got to have faith in Allah, and you've got to stand up and be a real Muslim," Detroit native Keith Ellison said to loud applause.

Many in the crowd replied "Allahu akbar" -- God is great.

Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat elected to the U.S. House in November, has been the center of a national debate in recent weeks over Islam and its role in politics. Ellison has said he would take his oath of office on the Quran, the Muslim holy book, igniting a storm of criticism from some commentators

If he was elected, I have no problem with him being in congress and taking his oath on the Koran. Big deal.

I would prefer that we have fewer immigrants from Islamic nations, though.

He should realize that if it were up to Islamic nations, the Christians that reside in their countries would take oaths on the KORAN and not the Bible - if those Christians were ever elected to office, which is unlikely. He should stand up for American traditions and respect America's institutions. In addition, he should point out how degraded individual liberty is in Islamic lands. A real patriot should be proud of their country, and I hope these Muslims are. I fear they are not, though.

Collin

Nothing wrong with that.

miller8966

Collin wrote:

Nothing wrong with that.

Everytime george bush even mentions his faith liberals are up in arms...yet at this you dont see nething wrong with.

keeponrockin

On the other side of the coin, you find nothing wrong with Bush saying something like thatr miller.

gue_barium

I think when I'm elected to public office I'll take the oath on the books of Kurt Vonnegut.

CorporateWhore

keeponrockin wrote:

On the other side of the coin, you find nothing wrong with Bush saying something like thatr miller.

The country is largely christian, built on christian ideals, and founded by christians. It is entirely appropriate for the president to speak on christianity in public. It should be done more often.

Islam is foreign to this country's ideals and institutions.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

The country is largely christian, built on christian ideals, and founded by christians. It is entirely appropriate for the president to speak on christianity in public. It should be done more often.

Islam is foreign to this country's ideals and institutions.

Everyone is human, regardless of their religious choices. Our founding fathers were men before they were Christians, or otherwise.

gue_barium

I think the action of this congressman is probably a good thing for America. Maybe, ultimately, we'll get rid of any and all religious paraphernalia pertaining to the swearing in proccess.

I don't think there should be a Koran or a Bible involved. Or the word God, or Allah.

Collin

miller8966 wrote:

Everytime george bush even mentions his faith liberals are up in arms...yet at this you dont see nething wrong with.

I believe in seperation of State and Church. I'd prefer if politicians kept religion out of politics.

But this is a bit different, Islam is a minority. A lot of people in America seem to think Islam is something bad, correct me if I'm wrong but you are one of them Miller. The United States doesn't allow Islam to grow, Islam is the enemy. But it's not, it is just a religion, just like Christianity is. I thought you had something called freedom of religion, that means they shouldn't be afraid to be Muslims, shouldn't be scared to show the love for their faith, just like Christians like to show their faith.
If Christians were a minority and the majority of the country saw it as the enemy, I wouldn't have a problem with a Christian telling Christian to be proud of their religion.

And yes, I do have a problem with Bush mentioning god and his faith, wouldn't you have a problem if a Muslim president said America had to do something because Allah told him to?

If Bush is talking to a bunch of Christians as a fellow Christian and tells them there is nothing wrong with being a Christian, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

norm

CorporateWhore wrote:

The country is largely christian, built on christian ideals, and founded by christians. It is entirely appropriate for the president to speak on christianity in public. It should be done more often.

Islam is foreign to this country's ideals and institutions.

Seems like you need a refresher in how our country works.

U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

newagehippie

CorporateWhore wrote:

Islam is foreign to this country's ideals and institutions.

So was Christianity at one point......

newagehippie

Collin wrote:

I believe in seperation of State and Church. I'd prefer if politicians kept religion out of politics.

But this is a bit different, Islam is a minority. A lot of people in America seem to think Islam is something bad, correct me if I'm wrong but you are one of them Miller. The United States doesn't allow Islam to grow, Islam is the enemy. But it's not, it is just a religion, just like Christianity is. I thought you had something called freedom of religion, that means they shouldn't be afraid to be Muslims, shouldn't be scared to show the love for their faith, just like Christians like to show their faith.
If Christians were a minority and the majority of the country saw it as the enemy, I wouldn't have a problem with a Christian telling Christian to be proud of their religion.

And yes, I do have a problem with Bush mentioning god and his faith, wouldn't you have a problem if a Muslim president said America had to do something because Allah told him to?

If Bush is talking to a bunch of Christians as a fellow Christian and tells them there is nothing wrong with being a Christian, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

well stated

Sonja_S

I still don't get why the bible is used in this context at all. Our politicians have to swear on the consitution. In most cases I have no idea which faith they belong to if any at all and I like it that way.

gue_barium

Sonja_S wrote:

I still don't get why the bible is used in this context at all. Our politicians have to swear on the consitution. In most cases I have no idea which faith they belong to if any at all and I like it that way.

And that's the way it should be.

MrBrian

Miller, for someone who goes on about how great America is and to claim to be such a good american, you seem to know very little about the history of the country you love so much. That''s something i've just noticed from reading so many of your posts, now what i'm about to say does not have that much to do with the topic of the thread but is also aimed at the people who think that Islam is foreign to this land.

I think you need to know that Muslims came to this land many years before any europeans, they came and left without hurting any natives. Muslims also came with columbus, infact it was Muslims and their tools that helped columbus sail to america. It was also many African Muslims that were were stolen from africa and brought to america as slaves to work on the fields, many of them who were a 1000x more educated than even their white slave masters. Reading and writting books and poems, literature.

So if you want to talk about what really is american, Islam should be high on that list.

Learn about Ibrahima Abd ar-Rahman jallo, the African Muslim Prince who became a slave in america sold for some tobacco. or maybe Omar ibn Said or perhaps Alexander Russell Webb. Study/learn about the The Sung Document.

So my friend, you as an American should have more respect for islam than you should have for your ownself.

miller8966

gue_barium wrote:

I think the action of this congressman is probably a good thing for America. Maybe, ultimately, we'll get rid of any and all religious paraphernalia pertaining to the swearing in proccess.

I don't think there should be a Koran or a Bible involved. Or the word God, or Allah.

IMo its a bad thing. But to each his own i guess.

CorporateWhore

gue_barium wrote:

Our founding fathers were men before they were Christians, or otherwise.

I don't know how you know that.

I know of a few founders, namely Adams, that probably would've said he was a subject of God's before he was his own man, since he believed that God created man. Adams would have believed that he was Christian above all else.

"Let the pulpit resound with the doctrine and sentiments of religious liberty. Let us hear of the dignity of man's nature, and the noble rank he holds among the works of God. ... Let it be known that...liberties are not the grants of princes and parliaments."
-John Adams

He believed all freedom comes from God who created man.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

I don't know how you know that.

I know of a few founders, namely Adams, that probably would've said he was a subject of God's before he was his own man, since he believed that God created man. Adams would have believed that he was Christian above all else.

"Let the pulpit resound with the doctrine and sentiments of religious liberty. Let us hear of the dignity of man's nature, and the noble rank he holds among the works of God. ... Let it be known that...liberties are not the grants of princes and parliaments."
-John Adams

He believed all freedom comes from God who created man.

That would be their choice to say as much, it doesn't make it true.

CorporateWhore

cutback wrote:

Seems like you need a refresher in how our country works.

U.S. Constitution: First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I speak in a purely social context. Islam should be allowed in America, but that does not mean that I need to vote for a Muslim. It does not mean that the religion of Islam is supportive of democratic values - it isn't. It does not mean that Islam upholds individual liberty - it doesn't. It also does not mean that I need to allow excessive numbers of Muslims into this country when they refuse to assimilate into OUR culture.

The government does not need to make these claims because the government should allow free exercise of all religions, while I will continue to point out that some religions purport that individual liberty is not sacred, but opposed to God's law (paradoxically). Islam, judged by its holiest leader Muhammad, does not hold freedom and peace as its greatest goals.

gue_barium

CorporateWhore wrote:

I speak in a purely social context. Islam should be allowed in America, but that does not mean that I need to vote for a Muslim. It does not mean that the religion of Islam is supportive of democratic values - it isn't. It does not mean that Islam upholds individual liberty - it doesn't. It also does not mean that I need to allow excessive numbers of Muslims into this country when they refuse to assimilate into OUR culture.

The government does not need to make these claims because the government should allow free exercise of all religions, while I will continue to point out that some religions purport that individual liberty is not sacred, but opposed to God's law (paradoxically). Islam, judged by its holiest leader Muhammad, does not hold freedom and peace as its greatest goals.

Whoopdedoo.

I guess my side of this argument doesn't address the issue the same way you do. I concern myself more with how America is going to carry out it's Democracy in a sane, wise, mature fashion.