Well, I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree at this point. I don't think she's an idiot and I don't think too many people would know anything about her if not for her over the top yet effective tactics. She has many supporters now who will continue to help her spread her message. I don't think she would have near as many people behind her if it wasn't for the press she's received.
I will grant you that without her initial crazy stunts she wouldn't have the name recognition. But now that she has it, if she wants to be effective she needs to be smarter about unifying people and making her delivery more palatable. She is currently having little to no effect with her antics (well, plenty of effect, but mostly negative). So my "idiot" comment relates to the fact that she is totally blowing an opportunity, and sacrificing her "cause" for her publicity. Earlier in the thread I called her a media whore. It is an accurate label.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
True but her exposure has led to more liked minded people becoming aware of her and organizing behind her. I wouldn't say she hasn't changed anyone's mind, either.
Communication and diplomacy for starters.
people have been communicating forever and wars still happen...instead of stating rhetoric, why don't you say HONESTY?
cindy sheehan has not changed anyone's mind...and she's not affecting change...she is a stupid and short-sighted woman
people have been communicating forever and wars still happen...instead of stating rhetoric, why don't you say HONESTY?
cindy sheehan has not changed anyone's mind...and she's not affecting change...she is a stupid and short-sighted woman
and, i don't agree with war either.
Gee, here I was thinking that DISHONEST talks would be the way to go....
I'm sorry, let me state the obvious for you...when I was referring to communication and diplomacy, I was taking for granted that these would be honest and open talks or else no, they wouldn't solve anything.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
she refers to suicide bombers as freedom fighters. she's an idiot.
It's idiots like her that have fought tooth and nail for Civil rights in America. Without idiots like her around you and Miller would probably be running the country, with Dino as foreign secretary.
I'm not gonna argue this, but "freedom" is all relative. Depends on what your definition of being free is...
While I'd agree that "freedom fighter" is a subjective term, it's a pretty safe bet that you would never expect the mother of a victim of these "freedom fighters" to label them as such. You would think that she'd save some of that venom of her's for the people who actually pulled the trigger and killed her own child instead of spitting it all at the president.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
While I'd agree that "freedom fighter" is a subjective term, it's a pretty safe bet that you would never expect the mother of a victim of these "freedom fighters" to label them as such. You would think that she'd save some of that venom of her's for the people who actually pulled the trigger and killed her own child instead of spitting it all at the president.
Or she could be smarter than that and realize that war will always have one side killing another and fight to put a stop to the whole damn mess.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Whoever she voted for, I have to give her tons of credit for literally speaking truth to power. Dems are the majority in Congress now, and she went to them and voiced her opposition to the war.
I'm glad she's voicing her opposition, but I don't give her credit if she voted for Democrats. I don't know anyone high up in the Democratic Party who is completely against the war and is calling for a complete withdrawal with an actual time table like she wants.
While I'd agree that "freedom fighter" is a subjective term, it's a pretty safe bet that you would never expect the mother of a victim of these "freedom fighters" to label them as such. You would think that she'd save some of that venom of her's for the people who actually pulled the trigger and killed her own child instead of spitting it all at the president.
If you happened to be a mother in 1930's Germany with some morals and a critical faculty, which meant that you were not easily taken in by massive indoctrination and war mongering propaganda, and a son of yours was led into joining the Nazis and was then killed by a Jewish partisan, or member of the French resistance, then would you make the same statement as the one above?
I'm glad she's voicing her opposition, but I don't give her credit if she voted for Democrats. I don't know anyone high up in the Democratic Party who is completely against the war and is calling for a complete withdrawal with an actual time table like she wants.
If anything, she should be applauded for this. The Democrats are more than happy to play on the anti-war sentiments of the voters, but very few have the spine to take a stand and put an end to it. Someone needs to hold their feet to the fire on this.
If anything, she should be applauded for this. The Democrats are more than happy to play on the anti-war sentiments of the voters, but very few have the spine to take a stand and put an end to it. Someone needs to hold their feet to the fire on this.
I just don't see what stand there is to take here. The Democrats aren't spineless at all, they just don't disagree much with Republicans on the issue of Iraq. Any criticism you see from high-up Democrats is all about how the Republicans are running the war incorrectly, not about how the war is wrong and we should withdraw. If Cindy wants to yell at anyone, it should be herself for expecting Democrats to take a stand against the war. That's not their job, and it's never been part of their agenda. If people are too stupid to not realize that Democrats are simply using anti-war sentiments to get votes when they're clearly not opposed to the war, then that's their own fault.
Cindy Sheehan has more bravery and determination than most people, yet arm chair hawks continue to personally attack her and call her names.
she is putting into action the rights that this country cherishes, and all you guys do is bash her. i do not agree with everything she says, that doesnt make her an idiot IMO? especially considering you guys are still talking about her and discussing her, maybe she isnt that much of an "idiot" after all?
Cindy Sheehan has more bravery and determination than most people, yet arm chair hawks continue to personally attack her and call her names.
she is putting into action the rights that this country cherishes, and all you guys do is bash her. i do not agree with everything she says, that doesnt make her an idiot IMO? especially considering you guys are still talking about her and discussing her, maybe she isnt that much of an "idiot" after all?
Did you not read the thread? Did you not understand why some of us think she's an idiot? I'm happy to explain it again if you really need me to.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I'm glad she's voicing her opposition, but I don't give her credit if she voted for Democrats. I don't know anyone high up in the Democratic Party who is completely against the war and is calling for a complete withdrawal with an actual time table like she wants.
First, you're assuming she voted at all, and you're assuming she voted Democratic. Secondly, if she did vote for the Dems, she probably figured they were the least shitty of her two realistic choices, and she has every right to vote for them one day and criticize them the next.
Some Democrats on the Hill opposed the war from the start, including Senator Obama. He was in the Illinois statehouse in 2003, but he's on record as opposing the war at that time as well. His most recent podcast calls for phased redeployment, which is not exactly what Sheehan probably wants, but it's a hell of a lot closer than Bush's plan for a "troop surge". Congressman Murtha called for redeployment in 2005, and Senator Feingold has been a critic of the war from the beginning.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
First, you're assuming she voted at all, and you're assuming she voted Democratic.
Her words:
"We didn't put you in power to work with the people that have been murdering hundreds of thousands of people since they have been in power," Sheehan said. "We put you in power to be opposition to them finally and we're the ones who put them in power."
I thought it was simply understood that the word "we" would include the person talking.
Secondly, if she did vote for the Dems, she probably figured they were the least shitty of her two realistic choices, and she has every right to vote for them one day and criticize them the next.
Of course she has every right to do that. I never said she didn't. I'm just saying she's stupid for telling them "we put you in power to be in opposition" to the war when they're clearly not.
Some Democrats on the Hill opposed the war from the start, including Senator Obama. He was in the Illinois statehouse in 2003, but he's on record as opposing the war at that time as well. His most recent podcast calls for phased redeployment, which is not exactly what Sheehan probably wants, but it's a hell of a lot closer than Bush's plan for a "troop surge". Congressman Murtha called for redeployment in 2005, and Senator Feingold has been a critic of the war from the beginning.
Look at the voting records for the initial approval of the war, and every increase in funding thereafter. Obama voted against partial troop withdrawal in June. In February, he approved another $47 billion for the war effort. He says the same garbage as most Democrats..a "phased redoployment". A very calculated term. If he were seriously opposed to the war, he'd come out and say "we need a time table for complete withdrawal". Murtha said the same thing, and he voted in favor of launching the war in the first place. I'm not sure about Feingold, but I wouldn't consider him a higher-up.
The point is, the message coming from the Democratic party is not "this war is wrong, and we need to withdraw". The message is "this war is a failure, and we need new leadership in order to run it correctly".
bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.
Well, you know, in the "history books", in Bush's view, Iraq will just be a "comma." He is detatched from reality. As much as you'd like to see him a defender of freedom and liberty and a fighter of terror, he is the exactly the opposite of what you believe him to be which makes you nearly as detatched from reality as he is.
Well, you know, in the "history books", in Bush's view, Iraq will just be a "comma." He is detatched from reality. As much as you'd like to see him a defender of freedom and liberty and a fighter of terror, he is the exactly the opposite of what you believe him to be which makes you nearly as detatched from reality as he is.
He's sucked the whole country into his delusions. For or against. He's the "whore of Babylon". So, if it takes a few good people to shout down those delusional idiots in washington, good on them, and good for the country.
LOL, how fucking stupid are these protesters? Instead of trying to work with the new party in power, lets alienate them and marginalize ourselves further!! And, let's yell so loudly that they have to move the conference into a private caucus room so we can't be involved or hear what they're saying!!
The above point doesn't quite cut it. Part of managing to get your voice heard if your a dissident is to make a public nuisance of yourself. People begin to take notice, and she may 'occasionally' be asked her point of view. That's all she's trying to do.
I've not seen any convincing reason for her being called an idiot on the board.
Fair enough. I was responding to the point was being misconstrued that some of us were calling her an idiot because of her cause or message. I wasn't. I call her an idiot because of her delivery.
The above point doesn't quite cut it. Part of managing to get your voice heard if your a dissident is to make a public nuisance of yourself. People begin to take notice, and she may 'occasionally' be asked her point of view. That's all she's trying to do.
She's been heard. Now the test is to see if she can make what she's saying resonate. See if she can take her fame and publicity and turn it into a groundswell. See if she can unite diverse groups of people into a unified, strong voice. So far, the answer has be a resounding NO. She continues to make a mockery of her cause and continues to alientate herself.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
He's sucked the whole country into his delusions. For or against. He's the "whore of Babylon". So, if it takes a few good people to shout down those delusional idiots in washington, good on them, and good for the country.
He's sucked the whole country into his delusions. For or against. He's the "whore of Babylon". So, if it takes a few good people to shout down those delusional idiots in washington, good on them, and good for the country.
Wow, again talking to yourself on a message board. I've never met anyone with split message board personalities.
So you have nothing to bring to the discussion? Great.
Cindy Sheehan is selfish. She doesn't care about honoring her son. I've seen her speak in person. Her tears are not genuine. When the cameras are turned off she lights up laughing and having a grand time. She is a career protestor who was doing these types of things before her son died. Now after Casey gave his life for his country she is using him to promote her anti-america and anti-israel ideology.
Comments
I will grant you that without her initial crazy stunts she wouldn't have the name recognition. But now that she has it, if she wants to be effective she needs to be smarter about unifying people and making her delivery more palatable. She is currently having little to no effect with her antics (well, plenty of effect, but mostly negative). So my "idiot" comment relates to the fact that she is totally blowing an opportunity, and sacrificing her "cause" for her publicity. Earlier in the thread I called her a media whore. It is an accurate label.
people have been communicating forever and wars still happen...instead of stating rhetoric, why don't you say HONESTY?
cindy sheehan has not changed anyone's mind...and she's not affecting change...she is a stupid and short-sighted woman
and, i don't agree with war either.
from my window to yours
Gee, here I was thinking that DISHONEST talks would be the way to go....
I'm sorry, let me state the obvious for you...when I was referring to communication and diplomacy, I was taking for granted that these would be honest and open talks or else no, they wouldn't solve anything.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't blame you for making statements like this. I blame the entire town that you grew up in.
It's idiots like her that have fought tooth and nail for Civil rights in America. Without idiots like her around you and Miller would probably be running the country, with Dino as foreign secretary.
I blame the entire trailor park he grew up in.
While I'd agree that "freedom fighter" is a subjective term, it's a pretty safe bet that you would never expect the mother of a victim of these "freedom fighters" to label them as such. You would think that she'd save some of that venom of her's for the people who actually pulled the trigger and killed her own child instead of spitting it all at the president.
Or she could be smarter than that and realize that war will always have one side killing another and fight to put a stop to the whole damn mess.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm glad she's voicing her opposition, but I don't give her credit if she voted for Democrats. I don't know anyone high up in the Democratic Party who is completely against the war and is calling for a complete withdrawal with an actual time table like she wants.
If you happened to be a mother in 1930's Germany with some morals and a critical faculty, which meant that you were not easily taken in by massive indoctrination and war mongering propaganda, and a son of yours was led into joining the Nazis and was then killed by a Jewish partisan, or member of the French resistance, then would you make the same statement as the one above?
I just don't see what stand there is to take here. The Democrats aren't spineless at all, they just don't disagree much with Republicans on the issue of Iraq. Any criticism you see from high-up Democrats is all about how the Republicans are running the war incorrectly, not about how the war is wrong and we should withdraw. If Cindy wants to yell at anyone, it should be herself for expecting Democrats to take a stand against the war. That's not their job, and it's never been part of their agenda. If people are too stupid to not realize that Democrats are simply using anti-war sentiments to get votes when they're clearly not opposed to the war, then that's their own fault.
one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist
she is putting into action the rights that this country cherishes, and all you guys do is bash her. i do not agree with everything she says, that doesnt make her an idiot IMO? especially considering you guys are still talking about her and discussing her, maybe she isnt that much of an "idiot" after all?
Did you not read the thread? Did you not understand why some of us think she's an idiot? I'm happy to explain it again if you really need me to.
Just because you've stated your reasons for thinking her an idiot, doesn't mean she's an idiot. Get over yourself.
It was clear that he was either misrepresenting the reason she's been called an idiot by many, or simply hadn't read it, so I was offering to clarify.
Take your own advice.
First, you're assuming she voted at all, and you're assuming she voted Democratic. Secondly, if she did vote for the Dems, she probably figured they were the least shitty of her two realistic choices, and she has every right to vote for them one day and criticize them the next.
Some Democrats on the Hill opposed the war from the start, including Senator Obama. He was in the Illinois statehouse in 2003, but he's on record as opposing the war at that time as well. His most recent podcast calls for phased redeployment, which is not exactly what Sheehan probably wants, but it's a hell of a lot closer than Bush's plan for a "troop surge". Congressman Murtha called for redeployment in 2005, and Senator Feingold has been a critic of the war from the beginning.
Her words:
"We didn't put you in power to work with the people that have been murdering hundreds of thousands of people since they have been in power," Sheehan said. "We put you in power to be opposition to them finally and we're the ones who put them in power."
I thought it was simply understood that the word "we" would include the person talking.
Of course she has every right to do that. I never said she didn't. I'm just saying she's stupid for telling them "we put you in power to be in opposition" to the war when they're clearly not.
Look at the voting records for the initial approval of the war, and every increase in funding thereafter. Obama voted against partial troop withdrawal in June. In February, he approved another $47 billion for the war effort. He says the same garbage as most Democrats..a "phased redoployment". A very calculated term. If he were seriously opposed to the war, he'd come out and say "we need a time table for complete withdrawal". Murtha said the same thing, and he voted in favor of launching the war in the first place. I'm not sure about Feingold, but I wouldn't consider him a higher-up.
The point is, the message coming from the Democratic party is not "this war is wrong, and we need to withdraw". The message is "this war is a failure, and we need new leadership in order to run it correctly".
Well, you know, in the "history books", in Bush's view, Iraq will just be a "comma." He is detatched from reality. As much as you'd like to see him a defender of freedom and liberty and a fighter of terror, he is the exactly the opposite of what you believe him to be which makes you nearly as detatched from reality as he is.
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He's sucked the whole country into his delusions. For or against. He's the "whore of Babylon". So, if it takes a few good people to shout down those delusional idiots in washington, good on them, and good for the country.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
I've not seen any convincing reason for her being called an idiot on the board.
The above point doesn't quite cut it. Part of managing to get your voice heard if your a dissident is to make a public nuisance of yourself. People begin to take notice, and she may 'occasionally' be asked her point of view. That's all she's trying to do.
Fair enough. I was responding to the point was being misconstrued that some of us were calling her an idiot because of her cause or message. I wasn't. I call her an idiot because of her delivery.
She's been heard. Now the test is to see if she can make what she's saying resonate. See if she can take her fame and publicity and turn it into a groundswell. See if she can unite diverse groups of people into a unified, strong voice. So far, the answer has be a resounding NO. She continues to make a mockery of her cause and continues to alientate herself.
Most people that mock her already mock the antiwar movement.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Dude, you're talking to yourself again.:D:D:D
Wow, again talking to yourself on a message board. I've never met anyone with split message board personalities.
Thank you for giving me a nice laugh today. You telling someone else to get over themsleves. Priceless.
So you have nothing to bring to the discussion? Great.
Cindy Sheehan is selfish. She doesn't care about honoring her son. I've seen her speak in person. Her tears are not genuine. When the cameras are turned off she lights up laughing and having a grand time. She is a career protestor who was doing these types of things before her son died. Now after Casey gave his life for his country she is using him to promote her anti-america and anti-israel ideology.