Idiot Cindy barks at dems

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jeffbr wrote:
    What both of you ignore, and what the thread has focused on, is that while her message may be resonating, her delivery isn't. She continues to do things to marginalize herself. As has been pointed out, she has the platform and the message to really make a difference and bring critical mass to this issue. Instead she continues to do stupid shit that keeps people believing she's a fringe lunatic.


    I did say she may not have the best plans or choices at times. But I don't think being unorthodox means you're a lunatic. She's trying to bring attention to the cause that the media usually would just ignore...and it's working. No press is bad press....because if it wasn't for her stunts many people would have never heard of her.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    jlew24asu wrote:
    bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.

    there weren't any actual "terrorists" in iraq until after we invaded.

    how much of the president's resolve to stay the course comes from his stubborn refusal to admit his mistakes and his stubborn insistence in ignoring the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public, and reality in general? i'm not sure how admirable that is.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.

    No, his plan sucked and was based on lying to the public. I do not support war, anyways. I wouldn't admire anyone for believing in something that causes such death and destruction. We need to get out of there now.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    there weren't any actual "terrorists" in iraq until after we invaded.

    right, so when they showed up, we stayed.
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    how much of the president's resolve to stay the course comes from his stubborn refusal to admit his mistakes and his stubborn insistence in ignoring the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public, and reality in general? i'm not sure how admirable that is.


    many or all of who you mentioned suggest more troops, not pull out.
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    jeffbr wrote:
    What both of you ignore, and what the thread has focused on, is that while her message may be resonating, her delivery isn't. She continues to do things to marginalize herself. As has been pointed out, she has the platform and the message to really make a difference and bring critical mass to this issue. Instead she continues to do stupid shit that keeps people believing she's a fringe lunatic.

    I don't think she's been completely flawless in her tactics, but I stand by my point.

    Besides, how many conservatives are knocking on her door to lend support? They'd look pretty hypocritical doing that after they derided her as either a pathetic puppet of the far left or as a manipulative bitch.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I did say she may not have the best plans or choices at times. But I don't think being unorthodox means you're a lunatic. She's trying to bring attention to the cause that the media usually would just ignore...and it's working. No press is bad press....because if it wasn't for her stunts many people would have never heard of her.

    I don't hold the "no press is bad press" belief. I've been part of companies where bad press has hurt my bottom line. I think she could be much more effective and affect real change simply by cleaning up her act. Instead, she chooses to remain a circus sideshow, and while I'm sorry for her loss, I will continue to view her as an idiot.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    jlew24asu wrote:
    she refers to suicide bombers as freedom fighters. she's an idiot.
    I'm not gonna argue this, but "freedom" is all relative. Depends on what your definition of being free is...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    No, his plan sucked and was based on lying to the public. I do not support war, anyways. I wouldn't admire anyone for believing in something that causes such death and destruction. We need to get out of there now.

    you dont support the war in iraq. fine I hear ya.

    but you dont support war with the people who attacked us? maybe your not american i dont know.

    and you wouldnt support war against hitler?

    sometimes war is needed. its been happening since the beginning of civilization. not matter how much you dislike it.


    but thats all besides the point. you admire cindy for sticking to what she believes in. whether you believe in what she says or not.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    I'm not gonna argue this, but "freedom" is all relative. Depends on what your definition of being free is...


    blowing yourself up in a packed vegtable market or public bus full of innocent people has nothing to do with fighting for freedom.
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    jlew24asu wrote:
    right, so when they showed up, we stayed.

    say i go to another guy's house at night, break the lock on the door, and someone else robs it and burns it down. do i get credit for running back in and saving his foreman grill? should i be surprised if the owner of the house punches me in the face instead of "greeting me as a liberator"?

    jlew24asu wrote:
    many or all of who you mentioned suggest more troops, not pull out.


    i'm not sure if you meant me specifically when you said "you", but i didn't support this little weekend in the desert at any point.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    jlew24asu wrote:
    blowing yourself up in a packed vegtable market or public bus full of innocent people has nothing to do with fighting for freedom.
    It does, if your values on life and faith differ... These people are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing.. they are fighting for a different idea of freedom that is quite different from ours. I can guarentee you that if you or I were raised as one of them, we'd be supporting the terror acts as well.. I'm not say don't fight or argue for what you or I believe in, but I think its also important to understand whats making them do what they do.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    say i go to another guy's house at night, break the lock on the door, and someone else robs it and burns it down. do i get credit for running back in and saving his foreman grill? should i be surprised if the owner of the house punches me in the face instead of "greeting me as a liberator"?

    that was a cute ineffective compassion.


    Milhouse VanHouten wrote:
    i'm not sure if you meant me specifically when you said "you", but i didn't support this little weekend in the desert at any point.

    no i meant these people you mentioned.....the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    It does, if your values on life and faith differ... These people are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing.. they are fighting for a different idea of freedom that is quite different from ours. I can guarentee you that if you or I were raised as one of them, we'd be supporting the terror acts as well.. I'm not say don't fight or argue for what you or I believe in, but I think its also important to understand whats making them do what they do.


    true but that doesnt make it right. and I know you arent trying to say it is.
  • trappedinmyradio
    trappedinmyradio Posts: 1,189
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    It does, if your values on life and faith differ... These people are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing.. they are fighting for a different idea of freedom that is quite different from ours. I can guarentee you that if you or I were raised as one of them, we'd be supporting the terror acts as well.. I'm not say don't fight or argue for what you or I believe in, but I think its also important to understand whats making them do what they do.

    they're brainwashed to a certain idea of freedom...the methods they choose are due to a lack of intelligent thought...
    I'll dig a tunnel
    from my window to yours
  • Milhouse VanHouten
    Milhouse VanHouten Posts: 755
    jlew24asu wrote:
    blowing yourself up in a packed vegtable market or public bus full of innocent people has nothing to do with fighting for freedom.

    taking your point an expanding on it... does dropping a few atomic bombs and annihilating a couple of cities constitute "fighting for freedom"?

    i REALLY don't want to get into a hiroshima/nagasaki debate, i'm just trying to speak to the point that "fighting for freedom" is a phrase that invites a wide and subjective range of interpetations.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    trappedinmyradio wrote:
    they're brainwashed to a certain idea of freedom...the methods they choose are due to a lack of intelligent thought...
    Now is it lack of intelligent thought..or abundance of religious ideals?

    Their value on life is much different than ours. They don't care if they kill "innocents" because for them the line between this world and the afterlife is very thin. They believe Allah will sort everything out in their favor.. the 72 virgins will be waiting... look at it this way, since things aren't going the way they think Allah wants them in this life, they are going to take them and people around them to the next life so Allah can fix it.. a quicker solution.

    Yes, we should fight their way of thought, but these are not evil, stupid people. Thats simplifying things too much.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jeffbr wrote:
    I don't hold the "no press is bad press" belief. I've been part of companies where bad press has hurt my bottom line. I think she could be much more effective and affect real change simply by cleaning up her act. Instead, she chooses to remain a circus sideshow, and while I'm sorry for her loss, I will continue to view her as an idiot.

    Well, I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree at this point. I don't think she's an idiot and I don't think too many people would know anything about her if not for her over the top yet effective tactics. She has many supporters now who will continue to help her spread her message. I don't think she would have near as many people behind her if it wasn't for the press she's received.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you dont support the war in iraq. fine I hear ya.

    but you dont support war with the people who attacked us? maybe your not american i dont know.

    and you wouldnt support war against hitler?

    sometimes war is needed. its been happening since the beginning of civilization. not matter how much you dislike it.


    but thats all besides the point. you admire cindy for sticking to what she believes in. whether you believe in what she says or not.


    I don't think killing people solves anything.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • trappedinmyradio
    trappedinmyradio Posts: 1,189
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Well, I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree at this point. I don't think she's an idiot and I don't think too many people would know anything about her if not for her over the top yet effective tactics. She has many supporters now who will continue to help her spread her message. I don't think she would have near as many people behind her if it wasn't for the press she's received.

    those are the same people that thought the way she did anyway...she hasn't changed anyone's mind...

    killing people doesn't solve anything...but, what does solve something?
    I'll dig a tunnel
    from my window to yours
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    trappedinmyradio wrote:
    those are the same people that thought the way she did anyway...she hasn't changed anyone's mind...

    True but her exposure has led to more liked minded people becoming aware of her and organizing behind her. I wouldn't say she hasn't changed anyone's mind, either.
    trappedinmyradio wrote:
    killing people doesn't solve anything...but, what does solve something?

    Communication and diplomacy for starters.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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