It's going to be fun to watch the Democrats work their "magic" in the next two years..They are on a helluva great start. I'm watching with detached amusement.
I chalk it up to this my team is better than yours mentality. People are so entrenched in this mind set that they are unwilling to even hear what the other side has to say. You can almost see them putting their fingers in their ears and say "NAH NAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU". Neither side has all the answers and both sides are right and wrong. Untill we as a nation realize that, and stop listening to politicians and their entourage of commentators and handlers telling us what to think, we will never be able to regain control of our government.
I agree.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
WASHINGTON — Iraq war protesters broke up a press conference by House Democrats on Wednesday with chants to bring American troops home from Iraq.
Chanting "de-escalate, investigate, troops home now," the protesters disrupted a briefing aimed at outlining priority goals when Democrats take over the House and Senate on Thursday.
Cindy Sheehan, an anti-war activist and mother of a soldier who died in Iraq, led the group to Capitol Hill to warn Democrats that party activists expect them to end the war in Iraq and confront the White House on a change in Iraq strategy.
"We didn't put you in power to work with the people that have been murdering hundreds of thousands of people since they have been in power," Sheehan said. "We put you in power to be opposition to them finally and we're the ones who put them in power."
Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., cut the press conference short when protests drowned out his voice through a dozen microphones set up to record his comments. Emanuel said Democrats would go back to the caucus room and return later.
If she voted for Democrats thinking that they have some collective interest in withdrawing from Iraq any time soon, she is an idiot. Hardly any Democratic candidates this year ran on the issue of the war being wrong and that we should withdraw.
that is the same term the united states used to describe suicide bombers when they were fighting the russians.... in fact, that is exactely what we called osama bin laden when he was fighting the russians. they only switch from freedom fighters to terrorists when we are the ones occupying their countries. also, i thought you would be happy to see someone protesting democrats.
do you need a history lesson? the russians were trying to take away their freedom. as they did with many other countries. do you remember the USSR?
we are fighting them because they attacked us unprovoked. suicide bombers who blow themselves up on an israeli bus or baghdad market are not freedom fighters. but I dont think you feel the same way as cindy....right?
and I could give a flying fuck who protests at democrats or republicans for that matter. but nice try.
If she voted for Democrats thinking that they have some collective interest in withdrawing from Iraq any time soon, she is an idiot. Hardly any Democratic candidates this year ran on the issue of the war being wrong and that we should withdraw.
Whoever she voted for, I have to give her tons of credit for literally speaking truth to power. Dems are the majority in Congress now, and she went to them and voiced her opposition to the war.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Whoever she voted for, I have to give her tons of credit for literally speaking truth to power. Dems are the majority in Congress now, and she went to them and voiced her opposition to the war.
Exactly. She may not have the best laid out plans sometimes but she doesn't give up. She's held true to her cause and keeps on fighting for it no matter who is in power. Instead of slacking because the Dems are in power, she's still out there full speed. I think it's quite it admirable to stand up for what you believe in... not simply back a political party but to back her own beliefs instead.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Exactly. She may not have the best laid out plans sometimes but she doesn't give up. She's held true to her cause and keeps on fighting for it no matter who is in power. Instead of slacking because the Dems are in power, she's still out there full speed. I think it's quite it to admirable to stand up for what you believe in... not simply back a political party but to back her own beliefs instead.
Fully agreed.
Funny how a larger % of the people in this country are now leaning toward the Cindy Sheehan view of the war and away from the George W. view of the war. Yeah, that Cindy Sheehan's one crazy broad... what a whacko.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
Funny how a larger % of the people in this country are now leaning toward the Cindy Sheehan view of the war and away from the George W. view of the war. Yeah, that Cindy Sheehan's one crazy broad... what a whacko.
What both of you ignore, and what the thread has focused on, is that while her message may be resonating, her delivery isn't. She continues to do things to marginalize herself. As has been pointed out, she has the platform and the message to really make a difference and bring critical mass to this issue. Instead she continues to do stupid shit that keeps people believing she's a fringe lunatic.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Exactly. She may not have the best laid out plans sometimes but she doesn't give up. She's held true to her cause and keeps on fighting for it no matter who is in power. Instead of slacking because the Dems are in power, she's still out there full speed. I think it's quite it admirable to stand up for what you believe in... not simply back a political party but to back her own beliefs instead.
bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.
What both of you ignore, and what the thread has focused on, is that while her message may be resonating, her delivery isn't. She continues to do things to marginalize herself. As has been pointed out, she has the platform and the message to really make a difference and bring critical mass to this issue. Instead she continues to do stupid shit that keeps people believing she's a fringe lunatic.
I did say she may not have the best plans or choices at times. But I don't think being unorthodox means you're a lunatic. She's trying to bring attention to the cause that the media usually would just ignore...and it's working. No press is bad press....because if it wasn't for her stunts many people would have never heard of her.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.
there weren't any actual "terrorists" in iraq until after we invaded.
how much of the president's resolve to stay the course comes from his stubborn refusal to admit his mistakes and his stubborn insistence in ignoring the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public, and reality in general? i'm not sure how admirable that is.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.
No, his plan sucked and was based on lying to the public. I do not support war, anyways. I wouldn't admire anyone for believing in something that causes such death and destruction. We need to get out of there now.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
how much of the president's resolve to stay the course comes from his stubborn refusal to admit his mistakes and his stubborn insistence in ignoring the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public, and reality in general? i'm not sure how admirable that is.
many or all of who you mentioned suggest more troops, not pull out.
What both of you ignore, and what the thread has focused on, is that while her message may be resonating, her delivery isn't. She continues to do things to marginalize herself. As has been pointed out, she has the platform and the message to really make a difference and bring critical mass to this issue. Instead she continues to do stupid shit that keeps people believing she's a fringe lunatic.
I don't think she's been completely flawless in her tactics, but I stand by my point.
Besides, how many conservatives are knocking on her door to lend support? They'd look pretty hypocritical doing that after they derided her as either a pathetic puppet of the far left or as a manipulative bitch.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
I did say she may not have the best plans or choices at times. But I don't think being unorthodox means you're a lunatic. She's trying to bring attention to the cause that the media usually would just ignore...and it's working. No press is bad press....because if it wasn't for her stunts many people would have never heard of her.
I don't hold the "no press is bad press" belief. I've been part of companies where bad press has hurt my bottom line. I think she could be much more effective and affect real change simply by cleaning up her act. Instead, she chooses to remain a circus sideshow, and while I'm sorry for her loss, I will continue to view her as an idiot.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
No, his plan sucked and was based on lying to the public. I do not support war, anyways. I wouldn't admire anyone for believing in something that causes such death and destruction. We need to get out of there now.
you dont support the war in iraq. fine I hear ya.
but you dont support war with the people who attacked us? maybe your not american i dont know.
and you wouldnt support war against hitler?
sometimes war is needed. its been happening since the beginning of civilization. not matter how much you dislike it.
but thats all besides the point. you admire cindy for sticking to what she believes in. whether you believe in what she says or not.
say i go to another guy's house at night, break the lock on the door, and someone else robs it and burns it down. do i get credit for running back in and saving his foreman grill? should i be surprised if the owner of the house punches me in the face instead of "greeting me as a liberator"?
blowing yourself up in a packed vegtable market or public bus full of innocent people has nothing to do with fighting for freedom.
It does, if your values on life and faith differ... These people are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing.. they are fighting for a different idea of freedom that is quite different from ours. I can guarentee you that if you or I were raised as one of them, we'd be supporting the terror acts as well.. I'm not say don't fight or argue for what you or I believe in, but I think its also important to understand whats making them do what they do.
say i go to another guy's house at night, break the lock on the door, and someone else robs it and burns it down. do i get credit for running back in and saving his foreman grill? should i be surprised if the owner of the house punches me in the face instead of "greeting me as a liberator"?
It does, if your values on life and faith differ... These people are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing.. they are fighting for a different idea of freedom that is quite different from ours. I can guarentee you that if you or I were raised as one of them, we'd be supporting the terror acts as well.. I'm not say don't fight or argue for what you or I believe in, but I think its also important to understand whats making them do what they do.
true but that doesnt make it right. and I know you arent trying to say it is.
It does, if your values on life and faith differ... These people are brainwashed into thinking they are doing the right thing.. they are fighting for a different idea of freedom that is quite different from ours. I can guarentee you that if you or I were raised as one of them, we'd be supporting the terror acts as well.. I'm not say don't fight or argue for what you or I believe in, but I think its also important to understand whats making them do what they do.
they're brainwashed to a certain idea of freedom...the methods they choose are due to a lack of intelligent thought...
blowing yourself up in a packed vegtable market or public bus full of innocent people has nothing to do with fighting for freedom.
taking your point an expanding on it... does dropping a few atomic bombs and annihilating a couple of cities constitute "fighting for freedom"?
i REALLY don't want to get into a hiroshima/nagasaki debate, i'm just trying to speak to the point that "fighting for freedom" is a phrase that invites a wide and subjective range of interpetations.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
they're brainwashed to a certain idea of freedom...the methods they choose are due to a lack of intelligent thought...
Now is it lack of intelligent thought..or abundance of religious ideals?
Their value on life is much different than ours. They don't care if they kill "innocents" because for them the line between this world and the afterlife is very thin. They believe Allah will sort everything out in their favor.. the 72 virgins will be waiting... look at it this way, since things aren't going the way they think Allah wants them in this life, they are going to take them and people around them to the next life so Allah can fix it.. a quicker solution.
Yes, we should fight their way of thought, but these are not evil, stupid people. Thats simplifying things too much.
I don't hold the "no press is bad press" belief. I've been part of companies where bad press has hurt my bottom line. I think she could be much more effective and affect real change simply by cleaning up her act. Instead, she chooses to remain a circus sideshow, and while I'm sorry for her loss, I will continue to view her as an idiot.
Well, I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree at this point. I don't think she's an idiot and I don't think too many people would know anything about her if not for her over the top yet effective tactics. She has many supporters now who will continue to help her spread her message. I don't think she would have near as many people behind her if it wasn't for the press she's received.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well, I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree at this point. I don't think she's an idiot and I don't think too many people would know anything about her if not for her over the top yet effective tactics. She has many supporters now who will continue to help her spread her message. I don't think she would have near as many people behind her if it wasn't for the press she's received.
those are the same people that thought the way she did anyway...she hasn't changed anyone's mind...
killing people doesn't solve anything...but, what does solve something?
those are the same people that thought the way she did anyway...she hasn't changed anyone's mind...
True but her exposure has led to more liked minded people becoming aware of her and organizing behind her. I wouldn't say she hasn't changed anyone's mind, either.
Comments
I agree.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
do you need a history lesson? the russians were trying to take away their freedom. as they did with many other countries. do you remember the USSR?
we are fighting them because they attacked us unprovoked. suicide bombers who blow themselves up on an israeli bus or baghdad market are not freedom fighters. but I dont think you feel the same way as cindy....right?
and I could give a flying fuck who protests at democrats or republicans for that matter. but nice try.
Whoever she voted for, I have to give her tons of credit for literally speaking truth to power. Dems are the majority in Congress now, and she went to them and voiced her opposition to the war.
she's an idiot...
from my window to yours
Exactly. She may not have the best laid out plans sometimes but she doesn't give up. She's held true to her cause and keeps on fighting for it no matter who is in power. Instead of slacking because the Dems are in power, she's still out there full speed. I think it's quite it admirable to stand up for what you believe in... not simply back a political party but to back her own beliefs instead.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Fully agreed.
Funny how a larger % of the people in this country are now leaning toward the Cindy Sheehan view of the war and away from the George W. view of the war. Yeah, that Cindy Sheehan's one crazy broad... what a whacko.
What both of you ignore, and what the thread has focused on, is that while her message may be resonating, her delivery isn't. She continues to do things to marginalize herself. As has been pointed out, she has the platform and the message to really make a difference and bring critical mass to this issue. Instead she continues to do stupid shit that keeps people believing she's a fringe lunatic.
bush believes he is doing the greater good for america by staying the course in Iraq and fighting terrorist and help the iraqi people win freedom. do you admire him for that? he is firmly standing up for what he believes in even when many people in his own party oppose the iraq war.
I did say she may not have the best plans or choices at times. But I don't think being unorthodox means you're a lunatic. She's trying to bring attention to the cause that the media usually would just ignore...and it's working. No press is bad press....because if it wasn't for her stunts many people would have never heard of her.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
there weren't any actual "terrorists" in iraq until after we invaded.
how much of the president's resolve to stay the course comes from his stubborn refusal to admit his mistakes and his stubborn insistence in ignoring the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public, and reality in general? i'm not sure how admirable that is.
No, his plan sucked and was based on lying to the public. I do not support war, anyways. I wouldn't admire anyone for believing in something that causes such death and destruction. We need to get out of there now.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
right, so when they showed up, we stayed.
many or all of who you mentioned suggest more troops, not pull out.
I don't think she's been completely flawless in her tactics, but I stand by my point.
Besides, how many conservatives are knocking on her door to lend support? They'd look pretty hypocritical doing that after they derided her as either a pathetic puppet of the far left or as a manipulative bitch.
I don't hold the "no press is bad press" belief. I've been part of companies where bad press has hurt my bottom line. I think she could be much more effective and affect real change simply by cleaning up her act. Instead, she chooses to remain a circus sideshow, and while I'm sorry for her loss, I will continue to view her as an idiot.
you dont support the war in iraq. fine I hear ya.
but you dont support war with the people who attacked us? maybe your not american i dont know.
and you wouldnt support war against hitler?
sometimes war is needed. its been happening since the beginning of civilization. not matter how much you dislike it.
but thats all besides the point. you admire cindy for sticking to what she believes in. whether you believe in what she says or not.
blowing yourself up in a packed vegtable market or public bus full of innocent people has nothing to do with fighting for freedom.
say i go to another guy's house at night, break the lock on the door, and someone else robs it and burns it down. do i get credit for running back in and saving his foreman grill? should i be surprised if the owner of the house punches me in the face instead of "greeting me as a liberator"?
i'm not sure if you meant me specifically when you said "you", but i didn't support this little weekend in the desert at any point.
that was a cute ineffective compassion.
no i meant these people you mentioned.....the generals, the iraq study group, democrats, republicans, 70% of the american public
true but that doesnt make it right. and I know you arent trying to say it is.
they're brainwashed to a certain idea of freedom...the methods they choose are due to a lack of intelligent thought...
from my window to yours
taking your point an expanding on it... does dropping a few atomic bombs and annihilating a couple of cities constitute "fighting for freedom"?
i REALLY don't want to get into a hiroshima/nagasaki debate, i'm just trying to speak to the point that "fighting for freedom" is a phrase that invites a wide and subjective range of interpetations.
Their value on life is much different than ours. They don't care if they kill "innocents" because for them the line between this world and the afterlife is very thin. They believe Allah will sort everything out in their favor.. the 72 virgins will be waiting... look at it this way, since things aren't going the way they think Allah wants them in this life, they are going to take them and people around them to the next life so Allah can fix it.. a quicker solution.
Yes, we should fight their way of thought, but these are not evil, stupid people. Thats simplifying things too much.
Well, I guess we'll be agreeing to disagree at this point. I don't think she's an idiot and I don't think too many people would know anything about her if not for her over the top yet effective tactics. She has many supporters now who will continue to help her spread her message. I don't think she would have near as many people behind her if it wasn't for the press she's received.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't think killing people solves anything.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
those are the same people that thought the way she did anyway...she hasn't changed anyone's mind...
killing people doesn't solve anything...but, what does solve something?
from my window to yours
True but her exposure has led to more liked minded people becoming aware of her and organizing behind her. I wouldn't say she hasn't changed anyone's mind, either.
Communication and diplomacy for starters.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde