Lets hope he "spreads the wealth".

slightofjeff

There's nothing wrong with "inequality of wealth." There's no reason everyone should be equal.

Everyone deserves the basics ... food ... clothing ... shelter ... after that, some people have more, some people have less. That's just fucking life.

Some people have more because they worked harder. Some people have more because they are more talented than everyone else. Some people have more because their Daddy was rich, some people have more because they hit the fucking lottery.

Again, that's life. And that's the way it should be.

In general, I am for exceptionalism being rewarded. Not punished.

kenny olav

Gonzo1977 wrote:

The problem is that there are far too many people in this country that have bought the notion hook line and sinker that "Poor" some how equates to "Lazy" or that the Lower Class "Just doesn't work hard enough".

It's complete bullshit
Anyone with half a brain and a pinch of common sense should be able to see that our tax system in this country is failing many more people than it is helping.

There is a denfinate need for tax reform and I'm willing to give Obama's tax plan a chance considering the fact that this trickle-down Republican fairy tale that we've been sold by Reagan and every greed horny Conservative since has failed this country for too long.

Hense the word CHANGE folks.

It's high time we gave some other ideas a shot rather than shoot it down simply because it came from the "dreaded" left side of the floor.

Later.

When I worked minimum wage (or near-minimum wage) jobs - loading trucks, stocking warehouses, etc, I worked MUCH MUCH harder than I do now at my OK-paying desk job. This might not be true in everyone, but every time I get a better job or a promotion, I end up working less for more money. But not everyone has the ability to graduate from college and get a semi-decent job, or a really nice job (which I'm still looking for). A lot of people get stuck doing shit jobs for shit wages... and resentment builds in these people, and then they mug us and/or kill us. It's fucking stupid.

Obama's no socialist, and he's probably not even a New Dealer, but it seems like he wants to make things a little more fair in this country. I mean, if he lives up to his promise of lowering taxes for 95% of us while taxing the top 5% more... that's better than what we've got.

polaris

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

Maybe so, but what you are describing is not realistic, I don't care how you cut it, any form of socialism "spreads misery equally" as the saying goes. This Utopian idea that we can all work together in one common cause of spreading the wealth around equally is crazy. Its not that the idea its self is bad, it just that it requires man to reach a new level of honesty and integrity that won't ever happen. People are only a couple of days with our food and water before they become part of the animal kingdom again. What you are asking is something that not realistic in society.

Our system isn't perfect, but it sure is a lot better then 80% of the world. And if there is a way for people to take advantage, they will. I just want the most amount of control over my money, I don't trust it to any one else.

well ...

1. it depends on how you judge what is better ... if you base it on the un human development index ... there are a few countries that are better and the majority of them are more "socialist"

2. you do realize that the system you're in is a mixed system that has socialist principles ... what we are talking here is an adjustment of a system that levels the playing field ... it's like you are in a professional sports league where the best team gets the first pick in the draft every year ...

OffHeGoes29

Kenny Olav wrote:

Obama's no socialist, and he's probably not even a New Dealer, but it seems like he wants to make things a little more fair in this country. I mean, if he lives up to his promise of lowering taxes for 95% of us while taxing the top 5% more... that's better than what we've got.

I voted for McCain, but I'm over it and support our new President. There is no reason why he and the congress can't make things happen, they are in complete control and now its time for them to make good on their promises.

Sludge Factory

I think the problem is that alot of these rich fuckers aren't actually earning the amount of money they are making. I don't think increasing taxes further on the rich to spread it around is the right answer, but I also don't think so many fucking people should be as overpaid as they are. The tax the rich more is just a band aid approach and doesn't really fix the real problem. It is more like taking advil for a headache every day instead of fixing whatever it is that is actually giving you the headache.

slightofjeff

Sludge Factory wrote:

I think the problem is that alot of these rich fuckers aren't actually earning the amount of money they are making.

You'll have to explain.

I mean, on one level, it seems silly Alex Rodriguez makes a bajillion dollars to play baseball. It's not like he's curing cancer or even teaching inner-city kids math.

But on the other hand ... if someone is willing to pay it, you've earned it ... and who is the government to say you didn't?

(And, while we're on the subject, if we want to talk about rich fuckers who don't earn what they are paid, I give you members of the United States Congress.)

slightofjeff

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

There is no reason why he and the congress can't make things happen,

This is kind of what I'm afraid of.

I'd be less wary of an Obama presidency if there he had some sort of buffer in Congress. Instead, he's free to kowtow to the craziest fringe of his party ... which, as we learned the past eight years, is never good.

I will hope for the best, though.

Sludge Factory

slightofjeff wrote:

You'll have to explain.

I mean, on one level, it seems silly Alex Rodriguez makes a bajillion dollars to play baseball. It's not like he's curing cancer or even teaching inner-city kids math.

But on the other hand ... if someone is willing to pay it, you've earned it ... and who is the government to say you didn't?

(And, while we're on the subject, if we want to talk about rich fuckers who don't earn what they are paid, I give you members of the United States Congress.)

I was referring more to executives who get paid to run their companies straight into the ground while the laborers for those companies who run the everyday shit so it doesn't get run into the ground get paid piss poor wages. Many people think higher taxes for the wealthy is the answer. I think not going bat shit crazy when deciding the salary of your top executives is more of an answer.

Like I somewhat alluded to in my distaste for increasing taxes on anyone, I don't think the government should have a say on whether you've earned your dollar or not. I just think it's gotten to a point where, due to dishonest ties, certain people are getting paid way more than what their true worth is. You fail a company, then your salary should suffer as well. I just look at the growing disparity between what the rich make compared to what the working class citizens make as more and more disgusting as time goes on. I'm sure you and many others have seen how executive pay has increased way more than average worker pay. It just seems there is no accountability for this anymore and that the American people are too apathetic to do anything to actually solve the root of the problem.

I agree with you about the US Congress. They have been selling out the interest of the American people since the early 1900's and it has only gotten worse as time goes on.

cincybearcat

Commy wrote:

"The top 1 percent of households received 22.9 percent of all pre-tax income in 2006, more than double what that figure was in the 1970s," the Working Group on Extreme Inequality reports. "This is the greatest concentration of income since 1928." And: "Between 1979 and 2006, the top 5 percent of American families saw their real incomes increase 87 percent. Over the same period, the lowest-income fifth saw zero increase in real income."

Its time for action. But, we can't expect Obama to do it himself. "When President Franklin Roosevelt heard pleas for bold steps to counter extreme economic inequality, he replied: "Go out and make me do it."

Keep hope alive.

I see a very big problem with your statistic...it says the top 1% of households "received" 22.9% of all pre-taxed income...didn;t they "earn" it?

El_Kabong

Indifference wrote:

What a joke.

The top 1 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned approximately 21.2 percent of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.4 percent of all federal income taxes.

Want them to pay the whole thing? How much is enough? How about a flat/fair tax so people don't get a free ride anymore.

After all deductions, credits, etc - the top 1% pays 23% of their AGI in income taxes while the bottom 50% pays less then 3%.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22652.html

what about multi-million/billion $ corporations that pay no taxes? halliburton hasn't paid any taxes in years (they are headquartered in the cayman islands) is that right?

i heard an interesting take on this 'spread the wealth around' concept. New York City gives something like $80million more in taxes to the state of NY than it gets back, is that evil socialism?

SundaySilence

cincybearcat wrote:

I see a very big problem with your statistic...it says the top 1% of households "received" 22.9% of all pre-taxed income...didn;t they "earn" it?

Some earned, some unearned (inheritence, etc.), but nevertheless facilitated by the US market system.

cincybearcat

SundaySilence wrote:

Some earned, some unearned (inheritence, etc.), but nevertheless facilitated by the US market system.

Someone earned all that inheritence money....and then they decide who gets it...better than the government deciding.

darthvedder81

Instead of all this class warfare bullshit why don't we let our economy grow and flourish and make everyone rich? "Rich" people aren't terrible. Hell, for the taxes they pay alone on all that income they help everyone (even Hugo Chavez knows this). Wealth can be expanded and if that weren't true how do you explain the 230+ years of incredible unprecedented prosperity this imperfect nation has been blessed with? Even our most destitute do pretty good compared to most of the rest of the world.

I like how PJ O'Rourke puts it: "The economy isn't a pizza where if you have too many slices I have to eat the box."

prytoj

darthvedder81 wrote:

Instead of all this class warfare bullshit why don't we let our economy grow and flourish and make everyone rich? "Rich" people aren't terrible. Hell, for the taxes they pay alone on all that income they help everyone (even Hugo Chavez knows this). Wealth can be expanded and if that weren't true how do you explain the 230+ years of incredible unprecedented prosperity this imperfect nation has been blessed with? Even our most destitute do pretty good compared to most of the rest of the world.

I like how PJ O'Rourke puts it: "The economy isn't a pizza where if you have too many slices I have to eat the box."

I'd like a slice of rich-guy big ass pizza, not poor guy tiny litlle pizza.

aNiMaL

OffHeGoes29 wrote:

I'm sorry...but it kills me that people talk about all this Socialist change, but when it comes to their pay check...its different.


Thats Hypocritical.

I personally cannot wait for the GW tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% to EXPIRE as GW had always intended them to do.

The uber rich can go back to being as uber rich as they were in the 1990's and I can go back to being as middle class as I have always been.

You people act as though I am all of a sudden going to be loaded and Bill Gates is all of a sudden going to be broke because Obama has said that he will let GW's tax cut expire and has opted out of renewing it.

How the hell did we ever survive before that tax cut on the richest 1% of individuals and corporations?

prytoj

aNiMaL wrote:

I personally cannot wait for the GW tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% to EXPIRE as GW had always intended them to do.

The uber rich can go back to being as uber rich as they were in the 1990's and I can go back to being as middle class as I have always been.

You people act as though I am all of a sudden going to be loaded and Bill Gates is all of a sudden going to be broke because Obama has said that he will let GW's tax cut expire and has opted out of renewing it.

How the hell did we ever survive before that tax cut on the richest 1% of individuals and corporations?

And middle class you still are. Paaalease. We just think that your statement that you are no longer "middle class" because of W is disingenuous at best, if not an outright lie.

dignin

prytoj wrote:

And middle class you still are. Paaalease. We just think that your statement that you are no longer "middle class" because of W is disingenuous at best, if not an outright lie.

read his quote again, he says "as he always has been"........................paaaalease

aNiMaL

prytoj wrote:

And middle class you still are. Paaalease. We just think that your statement that you are no longer "middle class" because of W is disingenuous at best, if not an outright lie.

Huh? Who is "we" that you are speaking on behalf of? And I didn't say that I was no longer middle class because of W.

You lost me...

prytoj

let me refresh you, your words....

aNiMaL wrote:

The uber rich can go back to being as uber rich as they were in the 1990's and I can GO BACK to being as middle class as I have always been.

meme

mammasan wrote:

Why should we spread the wealth? Instead of punishing those that make more money why not improve our schools and educational standards so the poor have more opportunities to make a living for themselves. Instead of bring the rich down a notch let's try to bring the poor up a notch without having to gauge anyone's pockets.

Right, and who should pay for that?