Kucinich calls for Impeachment

CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
edited June 2008 in A Moving Train
He's calling for impeachent of GWB on cspan right now.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • Go get em, Dennis!!! The rest of those Dems will never have even half the amount of integrity and spirit you have!
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • SVRDhand13SVRDhand13 Posts: 26,430
    Go get em, Dennis!!! The rest of those Dems will never have even half the amount of integrity and spirit you have!

    Hey you stole what I was going to say.

    Impeachment will never happen though.
    severed hand thirteen
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  • If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • SVRDhand13 wrote:
    Hey you stole what I was going to say.

    Impeachment will never happen though.


    Only because we the people aren't demanding it.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    Glad to see someone finally putting this into action. Kucinich, even if you disagree with his policy, has to be viewed as an honest and respectable man.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Only because we the people aren't demanding it.

    Isn't the general argument "Oh, he's out of office in a few months, what's the point?"

    That's like a bank manager saying "That guy with the gun, and the bags full of money... he'll be outta here in a few minutes. We'll be alright then."

    :p
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    I think it's more along the lines of you can't impeach someone just because you don't like them, or even because they are colossal fuck-ups.

    You have to prove they broke the law, and in the case of Iraq, that's extremely difficult do -- especially when most of the rest of the world's intelligence agencies were also on board.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    I think it's more along the lines of you can't impeach someone just because you don't like them, or even because they are colossal fuck-ups.

    You have to prove they broke the law, and in the case of Iraq, that's extremely difficult do -- especially when most of the rest of the world's intelligence agencies were also on board.

    treason, conspiracy to commit murder, murder.

    those are all pretty bad crimes
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    treason, conspiracy to commit murder, murder.

    those are all pretty bad crimes

    Prove one.
  • I think it's more along the lines of you can't impeach someone just because you don't like them, or even because they are colossal fuck-ups.

    You have to prove they broke the law, and in the case of Iraq, that's extremely difficult do -- especially when most of the rest of the world's intelligence agencies were also on board.



    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5210838&postcount=15

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=274009
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    floyd1975 wrote:
    Prove one.

    Treason

    The intelligence was vague, did not prove WMDs existed, and Bush took us to war under false premises. This action caused Al Qaeda to strengthen, it aided our true enemy beyond Bin Laden's wildest hopes and dreams. So yes, George W. is giving aid and comfort to our enemy.

    Conspiracy to commit murder

    A war fought under false pretense, solely George Bush's doing, that has killed over 4000 US troops, who knows how many hundreds of thousands of civilians. Any county in the US that has dead soldiers can file this lawsuit.

    Murder: see conspiracy to commit murder

    I'm no lawyer but I think it's all pretty simple to see.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • A war fought under false pretense, solely George Bush's doing, that has killed over 4000 US troops, who knows how many hundreds of thousands of civilians. Any county in the US that has dead soldiers can file this lawsuit.

    Murder: see conspiracy to commit murder

    I'm no lawyer but I think it's all pretty simple to see.

    I'm no lawyer, and certainly no fan of George Bush, but the war wasn't solely his doing. It passed Congress, and it washed with the vast majority of Americans. Not to mention the British and Australian governments, among others. So as much as I'd love to see Bush impeached, that's not something you're gonna pin on him.

    It is, however, something to consider when you're voting in a few months - both major parties were, and are, complicit in this war.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Treason

    The intelligence was vague, did not prove WMDs existed, and Bush took us to war under false premises. This action caused Al Qaeda to strengthen, it aided our true enemy beyond Bin Laden's wildest hopes and dreams. So yes, George W. is giving aid and comfort to our enemy.

    Conspiracy to commit murder

    A war fought under false pretense, solely George Bush's doing, that has killed over 4000 US troops, who knows how many hundreds of thousands of civilians. Any county in the US that has dead soldiers can file this lawsuit.

    Murder: see conspiracy to commit murder

    I'm no lawyer but I think it's all pretty simple to see.

    President Bush, as the Commander in Chief, can wage an action based on intelligence. Much of this intelligence was backed by other countries as well, as has been stated previously in this thread. Going to war, however misguided, would not fit the narrow legal definition of treason.

    Murder and conspiracy to commit murder are just preposterous. The action may have been misguided but he sent a volunteer military, rightly or wrongly, to combat which is within his power as the President.

    Once again, although these actions may not have been morally justifiable to all citizens, none of them truly meet the narrow definitions of the law.
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    I'm no lawyer, and certainly no fan of George Bush, but the war wasn't solely his doing. It passed Congress, and it washed with the vast majority of Americans. Not to mention the British and Australian governments, among others. So as much as I'd love to see Bush impeached, that's not something you're gonna pin on him.

    It is, however, something to consider when you're voting in a few months - both major parties were, and are, complicit in this war.

    Bush used misinformation and blatant LIES to get support from Congress, US civilians, and Britain/Australia, so I would argue that it is solely his doing.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • floyd1975 wrote:
    Prove one.


    Isn't that the purpose of impeachment? It's a two step process, impeachment being like an indictment, bringing charges against a government official. The word itself does not imply that a person will be forcibly removed from office, but that they will face trial. If that trial results in conviction, the official is removed.
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    floyd1975 wrote:
    President Bush, as the Commander in Chief, can wage an action based on intelligence. Much of this intelligence was backed by other countries as well, as has been stated previously in this thread. Going to war, however misguided, would not fit the narrow legal definition of treason.

    Murder and conspiracy to commit murder are just preposterous. The action may have been misguided but he sent a volunteer military, rightly or wrongly, to combat which is within his power as the President.

    Once again, although these actions may not have been morally justifiable to all citizens, none of them truly meet the narrow definitions of the law.

    Actually other countries, such as France, said that their intelligence DID NOT support going to war. Remember "Freedom Fries?"

    Once again, I do not agree that we had intelligence that supported the need for war to remove WMDs. Our intelligence was "vague at best" and Bush distorted facts to get approval.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    I'm no lawyer, and certainly no fan of George Bush, but the war wasn't solely his doing. It passed Congress, and it washed with the vast majority of Americans. Not to mention the British and Australian governments, among others. So as much as I'd love to see Bush impeached, that's not something you're gonna pin on him.

    It is, however, something to consider when you're voting in a few months - both major parties were, and are, complicit in this war.

    Somebody needs to be held accountable. Why not start at the top?
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Isn't that the purpose of impeachment? It's a two step process, impeachment being like an indictment, bringing charges against a government official. The word itself does not imply that a person will be forcibly removed from office, but that they will face trial. If that trial results in conviction, the official is removed.

    You are correct but frivolous charges are a huge and expensive problem in the judicial system of our country. I would hate to see them become the norm in the legislative branch of our country.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    It's too late in the game. The costs of an Impeachment Hearing would be YET another waste of our taxpayer dollars.
    I say we gather the truth of this administration and hold criminal trials if crimes against the American people... or crimes against humanity can be proven.
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    Hail, Hail!!!
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Actually other countries, such as France, said that their intelligence DID NOT support going to war. Remember "Freedom Fries?"

    Once again, I do not agree that we had intelligence that supported the need for war to remove WMDs. Our intelligence was "vague at best" and Bush distorted facts to get approval.

    France was one country. Britain was another.

    You may not agree that the intelligence supported the need for a military action. You were not elected to make that decision though. George W. Bush was elected to make that decision and he saw it differently from you. He was carrying out the duties of his office, however misguided. He used what may have been faulty intelligence but that does not fit the definition of treason.
  • Byrnzie wrote:
    Somebody needs to be held accountable. Why not start at the top?

    I'm all for it - but that'd mean going after Cheney, wouldn't it? ;)
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • floyd1975 wrote:
    You are correct but frivolous charges are a huge and expensive problem in the judicial system of our country. I would hate to see them become the norm in the legislative branch of our country.

    Frivolous charges like a blow job in the oval office? I tend to think the possibility that Bush could be guilty of aforementioned crimes is not exactly frivolous.
  • kenny olavkenny olav Posts: 3,319
    I've been watching it for the last 30 mins, and I suddenly thought "shit, i gotta tell AMT about this"... fortunately, Commy was already on duty. :D
  • he still standshe still stands Posts: 2,835
    floyd1975 wrote:
    France was one country. Britain was another.

    You may not agree that the intelligence supported the need for a military action. You were not elected to make that decision though. George W. Bush was elected to make that decision and he saw it differently from you. He was carrying out the duties of his office, however misguided. He used what may have been faulty intelligence but that does not fit the definition of treason.

    Its not that I don't agree. It is what the evidence shows. Conclusively.

    "IRAQ WMD INTELLIGENCE SUMMARY

    The following general points are key to understanding the Iraq WMD intelligence deception:
    1. Public testimony by the U.N. weapons inspectors at the U.N. Security Council just 12 days BEFORE the Iraq invasion rebutted all U.S. and British weapons charges against Iraq, which is why most of the rest of the world opposed the U.S. and British led invasion;

    2. U.S. intelligence conclusions prior to October 2002 about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were very consistent with the conclusions of the U.N. weapons inspectors, corroborating the fact that Iraq was not an imminent threat to U.S. security;

    3. In October 2002, the CIA produced a declassified National Intelligence Estimate with false key judgments about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in spite of dissents from several other U.S. intelligence agencies;
    4. No weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq after the U.S. and British led invasion in March 2003 and the evidence also corroborated U.N. weapons inspectors conclusions that no such weapons or programs had existed in Iraq since 1998;

    5. Many Bush administration officials made dozens of false statements to the U.N., Congress and the media about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction;

    6. The rationale to invade Iraq under the premise of weapons of mass destruction originated in the Project for the New American Century whose advocates include key Bush administration personnel Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearle and Richard Armitage"
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • Frivolous charges like a blow job in the oval office? I tend to think the possibility that Bush could be guilty of aforementioned crimes is not exactly frivolous.

    that wasn't the charge in clinton's case. his was lying under oath.

    this country sickens me sometimes. what's the deal with all this whiny "do over" bullshit. impeach bush, impeach clinton, run grey davis out of office so we can have another election because we don't like how things are going half way through his term.
    "Have you ever.........pooped a balloon?"
    ~D.K.S.
  • that wasn't the charge in clinton's case. his was lying under oath.

    this country sickens me sometimes. what's the deal with all this whiny "do over" bullshit. impeach bush, impeach clinton, run grey davis out of office so we can have another election because we don't like how things are going half way through his term.

    True, he was impeached for lying about the blow job. The point being, that statement was made that the judicial system can't afford to pursue frivolous charges. My point is that lying to Congress and the American public in order to engage in a multi billion dollar war, is hardly frivolous. For me, thats kinda right up there on the scale of really shitty things to do. If there is any possibility at all that Bush deliberately and knowingly lied to achieve his objective, then I am willing to put my OWN money towards investigating it.
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    floyd1975 wrote:
    France was one country. Britain was another.

    You may not agree that the intelligence supported the need for a military action. You were not elected to make that decision though. George W. Bush was elected to make that decision and he saw it differently from you. He was carrying out the duties of his office, however misguided. He used what may have been faulty intelligence but that does not fit the definition of treason.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/
  • True, he was impeached for lying about the blow job. The point being, that statement was made that the judicial system can't afford to pursue frivolous charges. My point is that lying to Congress and the American public in order to engage in a multi billion dollar war, is hardly frivolous. For me, thats kinda right up there on the scale of really shitty things to do. If there is any possibility at all that Bush deliberately and knowingly lied to achieve his objective, then I am willing to put my OWN money towards investigating it.

    i wasn't trying to argue with you, it just gets me going a bit whenever i see someone saying his impeachment was for a blowjob. that's all.

    i have nothing else to offer in this thread, so everyone else...please continue.
    "Have you ever.........pooped a balloon?"
    ~D.K.S.
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Frivolous charges like a blow job in the oval office? I tend to think the possibility that Bush could be guilty of aforementioned crimes is not exactly frivolous.

    I never once said that I thought that impeaching Clinton was a worthwhile use of funds.
  • floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Its not that I don't agree. It is what the evidence shows. Conclusively.

    "IRAQ WMD INTELLIGENCE SUMMARY

    The following general points are key to understanding the Iraq WMD intelligence deception:
    1. Public testimony by the U.N. weapons inspectors at the U.N. Security Council just 12 days BEFORE the Iraq invasion rebutted all U.S. and British weapons charges against Iraq, which is why most of the rest of the world opposed the U.S. and British led invasion;

    Ignoring this testimony is not treasonous although it may be considered negligent.
    2. U.S. intelligence conclusions prior to October 2002 about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were very consistent with the conclusions of the U.N. weapons inspectors, corroborating the fact that Iraq was not an imminent threat to U.S. security;

    See above.



    3. In October 2002, the CIA produced a declassified National Intelligence Estimate with false key judgments about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction in spite of dissents from several other U.S. intelligence agencies;

    Bush was never the head of the CIA. If you can prove that Bush intentionally ordered the falsification of documents you may have something but this, in itself, does nothing to prove a valid case for removal from office.
    4. No weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq after the U.S. and British led invasion in March 2003 and the evidence also corroborated U.N. weapons inspectors conclusions that no such weapons or programs had existed in Iraq since 1998;

    This is more proof of bad intelligence than treason.
    5. Many Bush administration officials made dozens of false statements to the U.N., Congress and the media about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction;

    They were basing these on faulty intelligence. Once again, choosing to follow faulty intelligence is not a valid case for removal from office.
    6. The rationale to invade Iraq under the premise of weapons of mass destruction originated in the Project for the New American Century whose advocates include key Bush administration personnel Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Pearle and Richard Armitage"

    This isn't even really saying anything to back up a valid argument for impeachment.
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