True. Not to mention if I felt fearful and worried that someone down the street from me were going to kill me, and I planned to kill them first, I'd be looked at as crazy. And my plans to kill my neighbour would be looked upon as premeditation to commit murder, which is very different from self-defense.
Exactly!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And yours is fresh and original, and not at all dated or invalid.
You'd rather wait until they aquire WMD, and become a current threat or better yet a threat that has come to fruition, rather than solve the problem before it becomes one. You can have your way of dealing with it, the people in the Govt. and the other people who live in reality have ours. Good luck with your plan, or lack thereof.
i didn't offer up a theory for war...or against war...solving a problem before there IS a problem is called a CRIME...where there is no problem evident, there is no need for a plan.
True. Not to mention if I felt fearful and worried that someone down the street from me were going to kill me, and I planned to kill them first, I'd be looked at as crazy. And my plans to kill my neighbour would be looked upon as premeditation to commit murder, which is very different from self-defense.
well, we could test it...call it the "u.s. presidential administration 2000-present defense"
no, no, no! i have long said that bush foes should shut up because that vote came in the electorate spoke their mind. they want to cry election foul. i don't care. this is the system...this is what you get. but, REMEMBER...it's not 51% of the country...it's 51% of the voting population, which, in comparision to the total population, was only about 11% of the population.
no argument. id love to know how many of these complaining MT'er made it to the polls.
No real power, which is why they resort to suitcase bombs, train bombs, IED's, suicide bombers, and using airplanes as missiles.
Oh they have power alright. They are just as able to cause death and destruction as we are, they simply have different motives, and different targets.
But why account for that, let's just ignore them, they are only a small minority. An extreme minority who was large enough majority to vote in their "president". Who, in case you forgot, wants to and wishes for the destruction of the USA, and a few other countries that its risky to mention around here.
Iran already has medium range guided missiles, a crazy fuck leader, and the desire for nukes. Nuff said. Bombs a fucking way.
So we might attack them because of words? Because of a small group of individuals who carry out these isolated bombings? Why should the whole population have to be torn apart by war in an attempt to control these guys? Bombing countries hasn't stopped them yet...it has only served to recruit more for their cause. What has their president done to us to justify an attack?
Maybe if that innocent population would rid their nation of these "small groups of individuals", then we wouldnt feel the need nor obligation to weigh the benefit of killing many to get the few. We have crazy ass radicals here in the USA too, and when they bomb an abortion clinic, or shoot up a school, or murder people, we rid our society of them. We incarcerate or put them to death. Over there, they are more like martyr's and heroes. How can you not see the difference? And as far as their president, his words may be only words to you, but just like in real life, sometimes when you run your mouth too much, you get bitchslapped. And his mouth is always running.
Sorry. Ill try later. Basically an article about Bush green lighting ligthing up Iranian operatives in Iraq and warning them, yadda, yadda.
well, the fact is, the u.s. is at war (with whom exactly, i am not sure) and if there are people inside the war-zone who are fueling, aiding, assisting an insurgency, then they need to be dealt with as long as the u.s. is going to maintain troops there. so, if iranian operatives are there, then i say, "light 'em up." why? not because i love war, but because i believe, since we started this thing, that this needs to be finished...completed...accomplished. this might seem contrary to my beliefs against the war...well, i am against the reasoning behind this war. but, my opposition does not change the fact the that war is happening. so, i want minimized death on all sides of the equation...the more insurgecy groups get in aid and assistance, the more death will occur on both sides.
So we might attack them because of words? Because of a small group of individuals who carry out these isolated bombings? Why should the whole population have to be torn apart by war in an attempt to control these guys? Bombing countries hasn't stopped them yet...it has only served to recruit more for their cause. What has their president done to us to justify an attack?
I'm really glad you posted this b/c it's the most important thing in the world right now, as far as I'm concerned.
I am with you b/c I think we can all identify with the youth of Iran.
At the same time, Their "president" IS beyond talking to. He doesn't represent the people. So how is this resolved? He wants Israel to disappear, and is pursuing nukes. My honest opinion is that he would NEVER comply with any treaty we could write up. I believe his words. I think that's all you have, is what people do and what they say. But you bring up a good point, there are so many potential victims, innocent Iranians who are not unlike ourselves.
Again, as of now, I don't think anyone's advocating an attack, but the world will become seriously FUBAR if they get a nuke, and potentially millions will die.
either way, it's a scary scenerio
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
True. Not to mention if I felt fearful and worried that someone down the street from me were going to kill me, and I planned to kill them first, I'd be looked at as crazy. And my plans to kill my neighbour would be looked upon as premeditation to commit murder, which is very different from self-defense.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Based on your standard, doesn't that make America the country to go for? Bombs away.
My standard ey? I guess the UN, IAEE, EU and everyone else that is calling for Iran to stop weapons production isnt enough? We all know the UN's track record in disarmament. They dont have one. Sadly, were the only country on earth with the balls to step up.
well, the fact is, the u.s. is at war (with whom exactly, i am not sure) and if there are people inside the war-zone who are fueling, aiding, assisting an insurgency, then they need to be dealt with as long as the u.s. is going to maintain troops there. so, if iranian operatives are there, then i say, "light 'em up." why? not because i love war, but because i believe, since we started this thing, that this needs to be finished...completed...accomplished. this might seem contrary to my beliefs against the war...well, i am against the reasoning behind this war. but, my opposition does not change the fact the that war is happening. so, i want minimized death on all sides of the equation...the more insurgecy groups get in aid and assistance, the more death will occur on both sides.
The Iraqi Army was defeated along time ago. The insurgents are getting their bombs from somewhere...That somewhere is Iran. So they already are the enemy. If they are killing American soldiers, then they're in it. Fuck em
I'm really glad you posted this b/c it's the most important thing in the world right now, as far as I'm concerned.
I am with you b/c I think we can all identify with the youth of Iran.
At the same time, Their "president" IS beyond talking to. He doesn't represent the people. So how is this resolved? He wants Israel to disappear, and is pursuing nukes. My honest opinion is that he would NEVER comply with any treaty we could write up. I believe his words. I think that's all you have, is what people do and what they say. But you bring up a good point, there are so many potential victims, innocent Iranians who are not unlike ourselves.
Again, as of now, I don't think anyone's advocating an attack, but the world will become seriously FUBAR if they get a nuke, and potentially millions will die.
My standard ey? I guess the UN, IAEE, EU and everyone else that is calling for Iran to stop weapons production isnt enough? We all know the UN's track record in disarmament. They dont have one. Sadly, were the only country on earth with the balls to step up.
Well it's kind of hard to have a record when the UN are asked to leave the country, really fast please, for the invasion of the decade. But I guess everyone juste forgot the UN actually had the work under control but the US just bypassed everything unilaterally (and illegally) to go to war.
Either way I hope the usa still have a lot of time and money if the intend to bomb Iran. Having war in 3 countries at a time, and having to rebuild them is a long and costly job.
My standard ey? I guess the UN, IAEE, EU and everyone else that is calling for Iran to stop weapons production isnt enough? We all know the UN's track record in disarmament. They dont have one. Sadly, were the only country on earth with the balls to step up.
Calling to stop weapons production is one thing, saying "Nuff said. Bombs a fucking way", you are showing your true cards. And you are showing a mindset that is extremist, dangerous, irresponsible and irrational, imho. Fortunately you do not represent the heart of America. When the average American is so permeated with fear that they are unable to think straight, and therefore entitle themselves to mindlessly kill anyone that poses a challenge, well then we've got a country whose days are truly numbered. The pride cometh before the fall.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
And yours is fresh and original, and not at all dated or invalid.
You'd rather wait until they aquire WMD, and become a current threat or better yet a threat that has come to fruition, rather than solve the problem before it becomes one. You can have your way of dealing with it, the people in the Govt. and the other people who live in reality have ours. Good luck with your plan, or lack thereof.
I just want to play devl's advocate here but you are proposing a preeminent strike. Eliminate the threat before it materializes. Well doesn't it seem to you that this is what Iran is doing. I don't want to see Iran with a nuclear weapon anymore than you do, but by advocating pre-eminent strikes we have basically opened Pandora's box for anyone else to follow suit.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
My standard ey? I guess the UN, IAEE, EU and everyone else that is calling for Iran to stop weapons production isnt enough? We all know the UN's track record in disarmament. They dont have one. Sadly, were the only country on earth with the balls to step up.
um, didn't the US break the nuclear non proliferation treaty ourselves? didn't we refuse to sign another unless there were NO inspections for us? did the UN publish 2 reports outlining why DU weapons should be banned? didn't the UN repeatedly tell Israel to stop occupying land not theres, stop building fences on land not theres...?
it's funny how ppl like you use the UN when it justifies your point, suddenly they are someone to be taken serioulsy...but when it comes to the UN saying anything to us or Israel then it's like 'who the fuck are they to tell us what to do!?!?'
do as you say, not as you do, eh?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Well it's kind of hard to have a record when the UN are asked to leave the country, really fast please, for the invasion of the decade. But I guess everyone juste forgot the UN actually had the work under control but the US just bypassed everything unilaterally (and illegally) to go to war.
Either way I hope the usa still have a lot of time and money if the intend to bomb Iran. Having war in 3 countries at a time, and having to rebuild them is a long and costly job.
I tend to disagree a little. The UN was kicked out of Iraq more times then Ive been kicked off this board! And Iran is doing it now. If they have nothing to hide, and their purpose is energy, then open the doors. But we all know they are not up to any good, and the more time they have to complete their work the more dangerous the world and the region will become.
Unlike Iraq WE KNOW Iran is working vigourously on bomb production and we know they are hostile to use. In my view, we should have gone after them and not Iraq to begin with. But George W fucked up. Cant change that now. But Iran with a nuke is unaccetable. They are exporting terror already. Nothing to stop them from exporting one nuke to bad guys who mean us harm. If you think that cant happen, your living in fantasyland.
I think a military strike, for the record, should be the last option. But at some point you have tro call bullshit.
Calling to stop weapons production is one thing, saying "Nuff said. Bombs a fucking way", you are showing your true cards. And you are showing a mindset that is extremist, dangerous, irresponsible and irrational, imho. Fortunately you do not represent the heart of America. When the average American is so permeated with fear that they are unable to think straight, and therefore entitle themselves to mindlessly kill anyone that poses a challenge, well then we've got a country whose days are truly numbered. The pride cometh before the fall.
The hell I dont. Try reading some polls. The average american doesnt want to end up becoming an Islamic french fry because we didnt stop third world crazies from developing nukes. BTW - are you even american>?
um, didn't the US break the nuclear non proliferation treaty ourselves? didn't we refuse to sign another unless there were NO inspections for us? did the UN publish 2 reports outlining why DU weapons should be banned? didn't the UN repeatedly tell Israel to stop occupying land not theres, stop building fences on land not theres...?
it's funny how ppl like you use the UN when it justifies your point, suddenly they are someone to be taken serioulsy...but when it comes to the UN saying anything to us or Israel then it's like 'who the fuck are they to tell us what to do!?!?'
do as you say, not as you do, eh?
Read before speaking. You obviously havent read the treaty. read it and come on back
The hell I dont. Try reading some polls. The average american doesnt want to end up becoming an Islamic french fry because we didnt stop third world crazies from developing nukes. BTW - are you even american>?
Do you understand that there is a difference between someone being thoughtful, considering their options, being conscientious and coming to a decision, and between someone saying "Nuff said. Bombs a fucking way"? "Bombs away" is the cry of the radical in my mind--someone who is unable to stay centered and balanced while facing tough choices, including given their fear and sense of powerlessness. This person is unable to remain reasonable for those tough choices. As a contrast to that lack of balance for example, we have when Purple Hawk said earlier in this thread:
I'm really glad you posted this b/c it's the most important thing in the world right now, as far as I'm concerned.
I am with you b/c I think we can all identify with the youth of Iran.
At the same time, Their "president" IS beyond talking to. He doesn't represent the people. So how is this resolved? He wants Israel to disappear, and is pursuing nukes. My honest opinion is that he would NEVER comply with any treaty we could write up. I believe his words. I think that's all you have, is what people do and what they say. But you bring up a good point, there are so many potential victims, innocent Iranians who are not unlike ourselves.
Again, as of now, I don't think anyone's advocating an attack, but the world will become seriously FUBAR if they get a nuke, and potentially millions will die.
either way, it's a scary scenerio
I can see that this is reasoned and intelligent and valid and REAL-istic, given the concerns and fears he has. As I said earlier, if the majority takes your approach rather than Purple Hawk's approach, then I see America as a country heading for a big fall, being perched on a cracked foundation of fallacy, delusions, and lack of reason. At this point, I have faith in the American people, considering what's been going down these few years. I hope I'm not proven wrong.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I just want to play devl's advocate here but you are proposing a preeminent strike. Eliminate the threat before it materializes. Well doesn't it seem to you that this is what Iran is doing. I don't want to see Iran with a nuclear weapon anymore than you do, but by advocating pre-eminent strikes we have basically opened Pandora's box for anyone else to follow suit.
once again, the difference being we will target MILITARY targets, and Iran will target..............well, you know.
Comments
Exactly!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i didn't offer up a theory for war...or against war...solving a problem before there IS a problem is called a CRIME...where there is no problem evident, there is no need for a plan.
from my window to yours
well, we could test it...call it the "u.s. presidential administration 2000-present defense"
from my window to yours
Maybe if that innocent population would rid their nation of these "small groups of individuals", then we wouldnt feel the need nor obligation to weigh the benefit of killing many to get the few. We have crazy ass radicals here in the USA too, and when they bomb an abortion clinic, or shoot up a school, or murder people, we rid our society of them. We incarcerate or put them to death. Over there, they are more like martyr's and heroes. How can you not see the difference? And as far as their president, his words may be only words to you, but just like in real life, sometimes when you run your mouth too much, you get bitchslapped. And his mouth is always running.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
What he said.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Now speedy, thats not nice.
Sup buddy?
www.myspace.com/jensvad
lookin forward to the SUPER BOWL.....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
I'd absolutely love for you to elaborate a little more about this.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
well, the fact is, the u.s. is at war (with whom exactly, i am not sure) and if there are people inside the war-zone who are fueling, aiding, assisting an insurgency, then they need to be dealt with as long as the u.s. is going to maintain troops there. so, if iranian operatives are there, then i say, "light 'em up." why? not because i love war, but because i believe, since we started this thing, that this needs to be finished...completed...accomplished. this might seem contrary to my beliefs against the war...well, i am against the reasoning behind this war. but, my opposition does not change the fact the that war is happening. so, i want minimized death on all sides of the equation...the more insurgecy groups get in aid and assistance, the more death will occur on both sides.
from my window to yours
I'm really glad you posted this b/c it's the most important thing in the world right now, as far as I'm concerned.
I am with you b/c I think we can all identify with the youth of Iran.
At the same time, Their "president" IS beyond talking to. He doesn't represent the people. So how is this resolved? He wants Israel to disappear, and is pursuing nukes. My honest opinion is that he would NEVER comply with any treaty we could write up. I believe his words. I think that's all you have, is what people do and what they say. But you bring up a good point, there are so many potential victims, innocent Iranians who are not unlike ourselves.
Again, as of now, I don't think anyone's advocating an attack, but the world will become seriously FUBAR if they get a nuke, and potentially millions will die.
either way, it's a scary scenerio
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M2EyCeInBw
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
FUBAR it already is.
Well it's kind of hard to have a record when the UN are asked to leave the country, really fast please, for the invasion of the decade. But I guess everyone juste forgot the UN actually had the work under control but the US just bypassed everything unilaterally (and illegally) to go to war.
Either way I hope the usa still have a lot of time and money if the intend to bomb Iran. Having war in 3 countries at a time, and having to rebuild them is a long and costly job.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
I just want to play devl's advocate here but you are proposing a preeminent strike. Eliminate the threat before it materializes. Well doesn't it seem to you that this is what Iran is doing. I don't want to see Iran with a nuclear weapon anymore than you do, but by advocating pre-eminent strikes we have basically opened Pandora's box for anyone else to follow suit.
um, didn't the US break the nuclear non proliferation treaty ourselves? didn't we refuse to sign another unless there were NO inspections for us? did the UN publish 2 reports outlining why DU weapons should be banned? didn't the UN repeatedly tell Israel to stop occupying land not theres, stop building fences on land not theres...?
it's funny how ppl like you use the UN when it justifies your point, suddenly they are someone to be taken serioulsy...but when it comes to the UN saying anything to us or Israel then it's like 'who the fuck are they to tell us what to do!?!?'
do as you say, not as you do, eh?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I tend to disagree a little. The UN was kicked out of Iraq more times then Ive been kicked off this board! And Iran is doing it now. If they have nothing to hide, and their purpose is energy, then open the doors. But we all know they are not up to any good, and the more time they have to complete their work the more dangerous the world and the region will become.
Unlike Iraq WE KNOW Iran is working vigourously on bomb production and we know they are hostile to use. In my view, we should have gone after them and not Iraq to begin with. But George W fucked up. Cant change that now. But Iran with a nuke is unaccetable. They are exporting terror already. Nothing to stop them from exporting one nuke to bad guys who mean us harm. If you think that cant happen, your living in fantasyland.
I think a military strike, for the record, should be the last option. But at some point you have tro call bullshit.
The hell I dont. Try reading some polls. The average american doesnt want to end up becoming an Islamic french fry because we didnt stop third world crazies from developing nukes. BTW - are you even american>?
Read before speaking. You obviously havent read the treaty. read it and come on back
I can see that this is reasoned and intelligent and valid and REAL-istic, given the concerns and fears he has. As I said earlier, if the majority takes your approach rather than Purple Hawk's approach, then I see America as a country heading for a big fall, being perched on a cracked foundation of fallacy, delusions, and lack of reason. At this point, I have faith in the American people, considering what's been going down these few years. I hope I'm not proven wrong.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
once again, the difference being we will target MILITARY targets, and Iran will target..............well, you know.
But we're the same, arent we?
www.myspace.com/jensvad