Mos Def Arrested While Performing 'Katrina Clap' outside the VMAs

El_Kabong

i doubt tom green got premits for every single skit he did outside...i'm assuming you would support his arrest?

SweetHarmonics

classic strawman arguments to draw away from the original post and discussion with far-reaching hypotheticals

there's a reason why this type of crap is penalized in competitive debating

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

But apart from assuming this is protocol...why do you, yourself, think he needed to be brought in. I'm genuinely curious.

ok....so lets say SPEEDY is an officer....

and the articulate genius poet Mos Def has decided that he is going to illegally ride a flat bed truck and set up shop in front of radio city music hall on the night of the video awards and start performing..

as an officer do i think this may bring up some unwanted traffic problems?? i sure do....

as an officer do i think there may be some concern for the crowd that has just gathered saftey?? i sure do....

as an officer do i think this was a ridiculous stunt ??? i sure do

as an officer do i feel that maybe if i arrest the articulate genius poet mos def and take him down to the station while i fill out all the paperwork needed to have the FLAT BED impounded it may make him realize what an outrageous stunt this was??? i sure do.....

as an officer do i think that maybe if i throw the articulate genius poet mos def in the slammer for a few hours he may realize how he put peoples saftey in danger by committing this outrageous stunt more so than if i just gave him a slap on the wrist???? i sure do

as an officer do i have the legal right to handcuff and arrest the articulate genius poet mos def for what he did??? i sure do

SweetHarmonics

perfect timing homie

decides2dream

i am long late entering this discussion, but i have popped on now and again and read many replies, just haven't had the time to post.

that said, first of as a few people have mentioned it is quite a BIG assumption, and yes it's an assumption at this point, that mos def's arrest was racially motivated. there is NOTHING to prove that, or even hint at that...except for that fact that yes, mos def happens to be a black man.

so then, why the arrest? maybe b/c the police realize musical artists of such fame/caliber are rather wealthy, a simple fine would be a mere slap on the wrist. not much of a deterrent. if you are the NYPD and you want citizens to respect and follow the laws, you must utilize effective deterrents. a fine is not a big deterrent for someone extremely wealthy.

in fact, perhaps mos def did consider this beforehand and assumed, just pay a fine no biggie...rather than risk not getting a permit to do what he wanted to do. i have no idea, just a possibility. so then, the police are sending a message, b/c obviously the only possible deterrent for a wealthy artist is to infringe on his time..so that is what they did...infringed on his time and arrested him, b/c a fine wouldn't serve much purpose in such instances.

IF mos def, or ANY other artist was simply fined for performing without a permit...what kind of deterrent is it for future artists' for doing the same? a fine is NOTHING to someone quite wealthy, but being arrested and taking up time...perhaps not worth it. who knows.

bottomline, he broke the law....arrest IS a lawful act in such cases. in the case of an average citizen doing such, a large fine might be a big enough deterrent. for someone ultra-wealthy, not so much...so perhaps worth it to him to take the chance. arrest is another level of deterrent, so maybe future artist's would think twice beofre putting on a public performance on a NYC w/o a permit. THAT seems like a pretty legitimate, and completely non-racial reason for arrest.



in regards to assuming no one else is ever arrested for such, or would be arrested for such...or any 'doubts' that other artist's bother to get permits, i honestly have no idea. maybe they do, maybe they don't....and if they're caught, i would hope they would get the same.

fact is, any intelligent performer would KNOW one must get a permit to perform on a NYC street. i am SURE mos def knew this as well. the police asked his crew for a permit, they stalled....the police waited, i have no idea how long...mos def continued his performance, supposedly unawares. whatever happened to ear monitors? why couldn't one of the crew hold up a sign? fact is, the police waited, were respectful...and perhaps after an indeterminate amount of time, realized the deal. so yes, AFTER the artist got to do what he wanted....what good does a fine do? not much. in fact, this arrest probably garndered more attention for his performance all the more.

no matter what, if we truly want to see better race relations....ALL parties need to be respectful. so yes, the police should not indulge in racial profiling, and the public should not always automatically jump to conclusions that ANY arrests made of a person of color is doneso soley for racial motivations. it goes both ways to educate and change the status quo. in this instance, i personally think a mountain has been made of a molehill, and it truly IS based soley on deterring artists from performing on NYC streets without a permit. until it is proven otherwise, we just won't know...so it's all personal opinion. the police have made many, many mistakes in the past.....but shall we all continually hold that against them? or maybe we can at least sometimes just imagine, they are trying to do their jobs.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

decides2dream wrote:

i am long late entering this discussion, but i have popped on now and again and read many replies, just haven't had the time to post.

that said, first of as a few people have mentioned it is quite a BIG assumption, and yes it's an assumption at this point, that mos def's arrest was racially motivated. there is NOTHING to prove that, or even hint at that...except for that fact that yes, mos def happens to be a black man.

so then, why the arrest? maybe b/c the police realize musical artists of such fame/caliber are rather wealthy, a simple fine would be a mere slap on the wrist. not much of a deterrent. if you are the NYPD and you want citizens to respect and follow the laws, you must utilize effective deterrents. a fine is not a big deterrent for someone extremely wealthy.

in fact, perhaps mos def did consider this beforehand and assumed, just pay a fine no biggie...rather than risk not getting a permit to do what he wanted to do. i have no idea, just a possibility. so then, the police are sending a message, b/c obviously the only possible deterrent for a wealthy artist is to infringe on his time..so that is what they did...infringed on his time and arrested him, b/c a fine wouldn't serve much purpose in such instances.

IF mos def, or ANY other artist was simply fined for performing without a permit...what kind of deterrent is it for future artists' for doing the same? a fine is NOTHING to someone quite wealthy, but being arrested and taking up time...perhaps not worth it. who knows.

bottomline, he broke the law....arrest IS a lawful act in such cases. in the case of an average citizen doing such, a large fine might be a big enough deterrent. for someone ultra-wealthy, not so much...so perhaps worth it to him to take the chance. arrest is another level of deterrent, so maybe future artist's would think twice beofre putting on a public performance on a NYC w/o a permit. THAT seems like a pretty legitimate, and completely non-racial reason for arrest.



in regards to assuming no one else is ever arrested for such, or would be arrested for such...or any 'doubts' that other artist's bother to get permits, i honestly have no idea. maybe they do, maybe they don't....and if they're caught, i would hope they would get the same.

fact is, any intelligent performer would KNOW one must get a permit to perform on a NYC street. i am SURE mos def knew this as well. the police asked his crew for a permit, they stalled....the police waited, i have no idea how long...mos def continued his performance, supposedly unawares. whatever happened to ear monitors? why couldn't one of the crew hold up a sign? fact is, the police waited, were respectful...and perhaps after an indeterminate amount of time, realized the deal. so yes, AFTER the artist got to do what he wanted....what good does a fine do? not much. in fact, this arrest probably garndered more attention for his performance all the more.

where the hell have you been???

ladies and gentleman...let me introduce someone with common sense......

Abookamongstthemany

decides2dream wrote:

i am long late entering this discussion, but i have popped on now and again and read many replies, just haven't had the time to post.

that said, first of as a few people have mentioned it is quite a BIG assumption, and yes it's an assumption at this point, that mos def's arrest was racially motivated. there is NOTHING to prove that, or even hint at that...except for that fact that yes, mos def happens to be a black man.

so then, why the arrest? maybe b/c the police realize musical artists of such fame/caliber are rather wealthy, a simple fine would be a mere slap on the wrist. not much of a deterrent. if you are the NYPD and you want citizens to respect and follow the laws, you must utilize effective deterrents. a fine is not a big deterrent for someone extremely wealthy.

in fact, perhaps mos def did consider this beforehand and assumed, just pay a fine no biggie...rather than risk not getting a permit to do what he wanted to do. i have no idea, just a possibility. so then, the police are sending a message, b/c obviously the only possible deterrent for a wealthy artist is to infringe on his time..so that is what they did...infringed on his time and arrested him, b/c a fine wouldn't serve much purpose in such instances.

IF mos def, or ANY other artist was simply fined for performing without a permit...what kind of deterrent is it for future artists' for doing the same? a fine is NOTHING to someone quite wealthy, but being arrested and taking up time...perhaps not worth it. who knows.

bottomline, he broke the law....arrest IS a lawful act in such cases. in the case of an average citizen doing such, a large fine might be a big enough deterrent. for someone ultra-wealthy, not so much...so perhaps worth it to him to take the chance. arrest is another level of deterrent, so maybe future artist's would think twice beofre putting on a public performance on a NYC w/o a permit. THAT seems like a pretty legitimate, and completely non-racial reason for arrest.



in regards to assuming no one else is ever arrested for such, or would be arrested for such...or any 'doubts' that other artist's bother to get permits, i honestly have no idea. maybe they do, maybe they don't....and if they're caught, i would hope they would get the same.

fact is, any intelligent performer would KNOW one must get a permit to perform on a NYC street. i am SURE mos def knew this as well. the police asked his crew for a permit, they stalled....the police waited, i have no idea how long...mos def continued his performance, supposedly unawares. whatever happened to ear monitors? why couldn't one of the crew hold up a sign? fact is, the police waited, were respectful...and perhaps after an indeterminate amount of time, realized the deal. so yes, AFTER the artist got to do what he wanted....what good does a fine do? not much. in fact, this arrest probably garndered more attention for his performance all the more.

no matter what, if we truly want to see better race relations....ALL parties need to be respectful. so yes, the police should not indulge in racial profiling, and the public should not always automatically jump to conclusions that ANY arrests made of a person of color is doneso soley for racial motivations. it goes both ways to educate and change the status quo. in this instance, i personally think a mountain has been made of a molehill, and it truly IS based soley on deterring artists from performing on NYC streets without a permit. until it is proven otherwise, we just won't know...so it's all personal opinion. the police have made many, many mistakes in the past.....but shall we all continually hold that against them? or maybe we can at least sometimes just imagine, they are trying to do their jobs.

It is of my opinion, that an equally wealthy white performer would not have been carried down to the station and be made an example of. There is no way of proving one guilty of racism other than them actually admitting it to be their motivation and of course they aren't going to admit that. It is such rare type thing...performing w/o a permit. It's not like this is a huge problem that happens all the time and there was no need to actually handcuff and arrest him.

my2hands

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Listen homie, It’s dollar day in New Orleans,
It’s where there water everywhere and people dead in the street (eet eets),
And Mr. President he ‘bout that cash,
He got a policy for handlin’ the bruthas and trash,
And if you poor you black,
I laugh a laugh, they won’t give when you ask,
You betta off on crack, dead or in jail, or with a gun in Iraq (a aq),
And it’s as simple as that,
No opinion my man it’s mathematical fact,
Listen, a million poor since 2004,
And they got illions and killions to waste on the War,
And make you question what the taxes is for,
Or the cost to reinforce the broke levee wall,
Tell the boss he shouldn’t be the boss anymore (or or),
Ya’ll bae-li-means (???),

accurate, and being done blatantly

my2hands

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

It is of my opinion, that an equally wealthy white performer would not have been carried down to the station and be made an example of. There is no way of proving one guilty of racism other than them actually admitting it to be their motivation and of course they aren't going to admit that. It is such rare type thing...performing w/o a permit. It's not like this is a huge problem that happens all the time and there was no need to actually handcuff and arrest him.

i would personally post Mr. Vedders bail for something like this

chromiam

decides2dream wrote:

i am long late entering this discussion, but i have popped on now and again and read many replies, just haven't had the time to post.

that said, first of as a few people have mentioned it is quite a BIG assumption, and yes it's an assumption at this point, that mos def's arrest was racially motivated. there is NOTHING to prove that, or even hint at that...except for that fact that yes, mos def happens to be a black man.

so then, why the arrest? maybe b/c the police realize musical artists of such fame/caliber are rather wealthy, a simple fine would be a mere slap on the wrist. not much of a deterrent. if you are the NYPD and you want citizens to respect and follow the laws, you must utilize effective deterrents. a fine is not a big deterrent for someone extremely wealthy.

in fact, perhaps mos def did consider this beforehand and assumed, just pay a fine no biggie...rather than risk not getting a permit to do what he wanted to do. i have no idea, just a possibility. so then, the police are sending a message, b/c obviously the only possible deterrent for a wealthy artist is to infringe on his time..so that is what they did...infringed on his time and arrested him, b/c a fine wouldn't serve much purpose in such instances.

IF mos def, or ANY other artist was simply fined for performing without a permit...what kind of deterrent is it for future artists' for doing the same? a fine is NOTHING to someone quite wealthy, but being arrested and taking up time...perhaps not worth it. who knows.

bottomline, he broke the law....arrest IS a lawful act in such cases. in the case of an average citizen doing such, a large fine might be a big enough deterrent. for someone ultra-wealthy, not so much...so perhaps worth it to him to take the chance. arrest is another level of deterrent, so maybe future artist's would think twice beofre putting on a public performance on a NYC w/o a permit. THAT seems like a pretty legitimate, and completely non-racial reason for arrest.



in regards to assuming no one else is ever arrested for such, or would be arrested for such...or any 'doubts' that other artist's bother to get permits, i honestly have no idea. maybe they do, maybe they don't....and if they're caught, i would hope they would get the same.

fact is, any intelligent performer would KNOW one must get a permit to perform on a NYC street. i am SURE mos def knew this as well. the police asked his crew for a permit, they stalled....the police waited, i have no idea how long...mos def continued his performance, supposedly unawares. whatever happened to ear monitors? why couldn't one of the crew hold up a sign? fact is, the police waited, were respectful...and perhaps after an indeterminate amount of time, realized the deal. so yes, AFTER the artist got to do what he wanted....what good does a fine do? not much. in fact, this arrest probably garndered more attention for his performance all the more.

no matter what, if we truly want to see better race relations....ALL parties need to be respectful. so yes, the police should not indulge in racial profiling, and the public should not always automatically jump to conclusions that ANY arrests made of a person of color is doneso soley for racial motivations. it goes both ways to educate and change the status quo. in this instance, i personally think a mountain has been made of a molehill, and it truly IS based soley on deterring artists from performing on NYC streets without a permit. until it is proven otherwise, we just won't know...so it's all personal opinion. the police have made many, many mistakes in the past.....but shall we all continually hold that against them? or maybe we can at least sometimes just imagine, they are trying to do their jobs.

just a thought... if you applied for a permit to perform anything outside of Radio City Music Hall while the VMAs or any other award show was going on, do you think it would be approved?? I believe not. He knew that he would never get a permit and figured hell I'm just gonna go and make my point and accept the consequences. I don't care if he's black, white, orange, or purple, he would have been arrested for this.. no big deal. And I'm sure he knew this and was willing to accept it, plus with him getting arrested it just makes the whole thing a bigger story.

I've heard the song already, (Mos performed it in AC after Dave Chappelle's show) it's not bad. I applaud him for trying to keep the light on the people of N.O. and trying to raise some money for them.

decides2dream

chromiam wrote:

just a thought... if you applied for a permit to perform anything outside of Radio City Music Hall while the VMAs or any other award show was going on, do you think it would be approved?? I believe not. He knew that he would never get a permit and figured hell I'm just gonna go and make my point and accept the consequences. I don't care if he's black, white, orange, or purple, he would have been arrested for this.. no big deal. And I'm sure he knew this and was willing to accept it, plus with him getting arrested it just makes the whole thing a bigger story.

I've heard the song already, (Mos performed it in AC after Dave Chappelle's show) it's not bad. I applaud him for trying to keep the light on the people of N.O. and trying to raise some money for them.

EXACTLY.

an artist of such caliber is WELL aware, has the staff of lawyers, publicists, etc. to advise him. i am sure he KNEW full well if he applied for a permit, was denied as he most likely would be and then performed....then the city would have an actual case agianst him. by simply forgoing applying for a permit, it's all basic psych 101: risk vs. reward. he wanted to do what he wanted to do..to make his statement and promote his cause.....he knew what risks would be involved and they were acceptable. he seems fairly nonplussed in the pics of him being arrested, b/c he knew well it was a likely scenario, and damn right, it brought even MORE exposure to his performance and his cause. so all win-win. there's nothing racial about it.

i just think, IF mos def felt he was treated unfairly, treated disrespectfully or there were any racial issues...he'd have filed a complaint, made a fuss, something. point is, he knew what would happen, and he was fine with it. ANY artist in the same scenario would expect the same. i think if we are to make progress, it needs to happen on BOTH sides; one should not be treated differently b/c of race, creed, gender, etc....and also too...the public should NOT automatically jump to the conclusion that any time a person of color is arrested, it *must* be racially motivated. sometimes is simply the law is broken, which we all agree it was....and so then, arrests are made. to me, the NYPD *had* to do what they did, arrest and all to make a statement...and mos def felt he *had* to do what he did to make his statement.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

this is the thread that never ends......
it just goes on and on my friends......................