A simple question

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

You don't have the knowledge that you can do something until you KNOW, which is experience. You might have the knowledge other people can do it. Or that it is possible. That is not knowing you can do something. Again, we move through each moment in faith. We may minimise it's validity and yet it is glorious how faith can move mountains.

That's ridiculous. Just because a situation offers the possibility of failure or success, it does not mean one or the other is inevitable. Success is achieved by accounting for all of the factors involved and executing a plan in accordance to those factors. Life is not the process of being blown about on the winds of chance.

Faith is completely valid. People may hold faith in whatever they choose for whatever reason they wish. But to pretend that faith is something other than assumption in the absence of or in contradiction to knowledge is to give sanctity to foolishness.

Faith cannot move a mountain. Go find the next mountain and have faith that it will levitate. See how that works out.

farfromglorified

surferdude wrote:

Her brother was acting on the X and Y chromosone principal. The X and Y chromosone principal is the one that lets guys do stupid shit, then tell the story over and over whenever they're out drinking while showing off the scars. The older I get, the better I was.

That is an excellent principle!

Flannel Shirt

http://www.scientology.org/

The truth is out there, if you cannot find it, make some crazy shit up and call it the truth.

farfromglorified

Flannel Shirt wrote:

http://www.scientology.org/

The truth is out there, if you cannot find it, make some crazy shit up and call it the truth.

The word Scientology literally means "the study of truth."..........Man is an immortal, spiritual being

Flannel Shirt

farfromglorified wrote:

The word Scientology literally means "the study of truth."..........Man is an immortal, spiritual being

yes, O-Qua Tangin Wann my brother.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

That's ridiculous.

Please explain specifically what I said that you are claiming is ridiculous.

Just because a situation offers the possibility of failure or success, it does not mean one or the other is inevitable. Success is achieved by accounting for all of the factors involved and executing a plan in accordance to those factors. Life is not the process of being blown about on the winds of chance.

I don't recall saying anything about being blown about on the winds of chance. In my mind, it's quite the opposite, frankly.

Faith cannot move a mountain. Go find the next mountain and have faith that it will levitate. See how that works out.

Were it not for man looking at the mountain and believing they could move it, it would not be done. This idea can be applied to building the pyramids, inventing or improving upon our first working aircraft, coming up with the theory of relativity, or to starting a thriving business.

When one understands the validity of the inner picture--our image-making facility or imagination, one comes to learn that it is the inner vision or the faith from which all of our accomplishments and successes flow. "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve". One comes to realise that all else follows faith. Therefore, it's those who utilise the inner faith and understand it's power to do the "unthinkable", who do the unthinkable.

It's interesting that those who are successful cream-of-the-crop athletes, to those who channel creative genius in artistic creation in any way, to those heal themselves of dread illness are those who tout the brilliance of the inner vision and the KNOWledge of the REALity of such vision. Those who minimise the validity of such faith, because it's not real have simply lost awareness of this potential for themselves. And then there are those who give faith a negative connotation due to religion, and blind themselves to the brilliance of faith in our lives in each moment.

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

Please explain specifically what I said that you are claiming is ridiculous. [/qutoe]

"You don't have the knowledge that you can do something until you KNOW, which is experience"

I don't recall saying anything about being blown about on the winds of chance. In my mind, it's quite the opposite, frankly.

Cool.

Were it not for man looking at the mountain and believing they could move it, it would not be done.

Were it not for the knowledge of how it is done, it would never move. I believe men can move mountains. That belief won't move a pin. I have no idea how to move a mountain, and will never be able to until I understand how it is done.

This idea can be applied to building the pyramids, inventing or improving upon our first working aircraft, coming up with the theory of relativity, or to starting a thriving business.

A belief will do none of those things.

When one understands the validity of the inner picture--our image-making facility or imagination, one comes to learn that it is the inner vision or the faith from which all of our accomplishments and successes flow. "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve". One comes to realise that all else follows faith. Therefore, it's those who utilise the inner faith and understand it's power to do the "unthinkable", who do the unthinkable.

Try imagining renewable energy. Let us know when we can fill gas tanks with your imagination.

It's interesting that those who are successful cream-of-the-crop athletes, to those who channel creative genius in artistic creation in any way, to those heal themselves of dread illness are those who tout the brilliance of the inner vision and the KNOWledge of the REALity of such vision. Those who minimise the validity of such faith, because it's not real have simply lost awareness of this potential for themselves. And then there are those who give faith a negative connotation due to religion, and blind themselves to the brilliance of faith in our lives in each moment.

I don't minimize faith. I refer to it for exactly what it is: belief in the absence of or contradiction to knowledge.

An athlete, a creative genius, a brilliant inventor....the products of their work come from knowledge and ability, not from faith and luck. Believing you will be a brilliant inventor will not make you one. Waiting to become a great athlete will not make you one. Admiring a creative genius will not make you one.

RockinInCanada

zstillings wrote:

I agree that it is. In a society such as the United States and Canada, those who represent us are, themselves, citizens of the country and afforded the same rights. If religion helps to guide their decisions regarding morality, then restricting that would be stripping them of their rights as well. The separation comes in the form of mandating the practice of a certain religion or the belief in one faith.

I like what you have to say...however I notice, especially if discussing gay marriage, unlike Canada the USA has used the religion card in not supporting this act.

Which to me is the biggest example that shows evidence that relgion is directly mixed with politics. We try to construct our society to allow people a free way of living and being yourself...however to deny a homesexual his/her right to marry another is stripping them of their rights based on a relgious principle that states homosexuality is immoral..

However my view on the gay marriage is this...to the best of my knowledge marriage itself is a religious principle....in that sense if I was to obey the "law" of separation of church and politics I would have to therefore not provide the term marriage to describe a homosexual union as it is a relgious term describing the act of union between a man and woman...however to deny the gay couple the rights of a straight married couple is wrong...the same rights should be given to them...but it should not be dubbed marriage as we are trying to separate church and state.

To further continue I believe that the government should not force ministers/priests to perform gay unions if they do not want to....but government officals should be required to perform these union as they fall out of the relgious classification and into state classification....but this is just my 2cents.....

floyd1975

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I like what you have to say...however I notice, especially if discussing gay marriage, unlike Canada the USA has used the religion card in not supporting this act.

Which to me is the biggest example that shows evidence that relgion is directly mixed with politics. We try to construct our society to allow people a free way of living and being yourself...however to deny a homesexual his/her right to marry another is stripping them of their rights based on a relgious principle that states homosexuality is immoral....

However my view on the gay marriage is this...to the best of my knowledge marriage itself is a religious principle....in that sense if I was to obey the "law" of separation of church and politics I would have to therefore not provide the term marriage to describe a homosexual union as it is a relgious term describing the act of union between a man and woman...however to deny the gay couple the rights of a straight married couple is wrong...the same rights should be given to them...but it should not be dubbed marriage as we are trying to separate church and state. [/quote]

I actually think we agree on this. I think that the government getting involved in marriage in the first place is crossing the line and the government is showing it's burdensome face in religion.

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

To further continue I believe that the government should not force ministers/priests to perform gay unions if they do not want to....but government officals should be required to perform these union as they fall out of the relgious classification and into state classification....but this is just my 2cents.....

I agree with you here as well. The government really could use court papers and common sense (I know this is sorely lacking in all bureaucracy but I can be an idealist sometimes too) to minimize their involvement in all of these processes so that they do not even have to perform any union.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

I believe men can move mountains. That belief won't move a pin.

If you are not truly aligned to your belief, no, it will not be empowered by faith. It's empowered by lip-service and little else. Service meant to fashion illusions is actually highly unempowering. Not just not-empowering, but we rather actually drain our life energy when we uphold our illusions. That is not faith. That is pretend faith. With faith, one becomes aligned to all of life and lives these words: "where there's a will there's a way". Those paying lip service are the ones who claim faith, and then act contrary to faith. Actual faith is so amazing that we don't have the option to not act it out.

Try imagining renewable energy. Let us know when we can fill gas tanks with your imagination....

Believing you will be a brilliant inventor will not make you one. Waiting to become a great athlete will not make you one. Admiring a creative genius will not make you

I don't minimize faith.

You don't seem to understand the role of faith as the catalyst which allows one to envision and thereby subsequently bring about great creation--like Einstein imagining riding on beams of light-- what ramifications there were from that one! What creation has sprung forth! Before he knew the slightest ramifications of what he was creating, he had faith that he was being productive, that he could uncover, or discover with his imagination of all things. How could the builders of the pyramids know what they accomplished could be done if something of such magnitude had not been endeavored before? How great their faith must have been to embark on such grandeur.

If you choose to focus on: "Waiting to become a great athlete will not make you one" or "Admiring a creative genius will not make you one...", it looks like you want to see faith in a passive light. True faith is when one's whole being is aligned--inspired--to the degree that one is living at purpose. There is nothing passive about faith. Real faith, that is. It's the exact opposite of passive.

RockinInCanada

zstillings wrote:

However my view on the gay marriage is this...to the best of my knowledge marriage itself is a religious principle....in that sense if I was to obey the "law" of separation of church and politics I would have to therefore not provide the term marriage to describe a homosexual union as it is a relgious term describing the act of union between a man and woman...however to deny the gay couple the rights of a straight married couple is wrong...the same rights should be given to them...but it should not be dubbed marriage as we are trying to separate church and state.

I actually think we agree on this. I think that the government getting involved in marriage in the first place is crossing the line and the government is showing it's burdensome face in religion.



I agree with you here as well. The government really could use court papers and common sense (I know this is sorely lacking in all bureaucracy but I can be an idealist sometimes too) to minimize their involvement in all of these processes so that they do not even have to perform any union.[/quote]


Yes we do agree and I really think this is the best way to handle this issue...like I say to make two sides agree BOTH need to make concessions....

cornnifer

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

I like what you have to say...however I notice, especially if discussing gay marriage, unlike Canada the USA has used the religion card in not supporting this act.

Which to me is the biggest example that shows evidence that relgion is directly mixed with politics. We try to construct our society to allow people a free way of living and being yourself...however to deny a homesexual his/her right to marry another is stripping them of their rights based on a relgious principle that states homosexuality is immoral..

.....

How come EVERY time a discussion pops up regarding faith and politics, it always comes around to gay marriage. Every freakin' time, like its the only relevant political issue faith has anything to say about. 'Tis ridiculous. Gay marriage is such a non issue in todays world. Fucking look around you. People, both foreign and domestic, are starving to death while others live lives of extreme decadence and waste, the gap separating the haves and the have nots grows wider and wider by the second and the latter are left to die in a policy of social darwinism, people, both foreign an domestic, die in senseless violence and war etc. Faith has ALOT to say about those issues. ALOT. Far more than it has to say about gay marriage. Personally, I don't care nothing about gay marriage. CAn we shut up for two fucking seconds about gay marriage and turn the political discourse around to shit that really matters?
In regards to the original question proposed in this thread. I say, to a degree yes.

RockinInCanada

cornnifer wrote:

How come EVERY time a discussion pops up regarding faith and politics, it always comes around to gay marriage. Every freakin' time, like its the only relevant political issue faith has anything to say about. 'Tis ridiculous. Gay marriage is such a non issue in todays world. Fucking look around you. People, both foreign and domestic, are starving to death while others live lives of extreme decadence and waste, the gap separating the haves and the have nots grows wider and wider by the second and the latter are left to die in a policy of social darwinism, people, both foreign an domestic, die in senseless violence and war etc. Faith has ALOT to say about those issues. ALOT. Far more than it has to say about gay marriage. Personally, I don't care nothing about gay marriage. CAn we shut up for two fucking seconds about gay marriage and turn the political discourse around to shit that really matters?
In regards to the original question proposed in this thread. I say, to a degree yes.

Whatever.....I will talk about what I want and when i want okay...and I am aware of what is going on in the world today...sorry for taking two damn seconds to talk about an issue other than war for a change....so dont come on here and blast me for not looking around...HAVE YOU SEEN ME POST IN THE PAST WEEKS....its all been about war and death.....calm the hell down....

rightondude

cornnifer wrote:

How come EVERY time a discussion pops up regarding faith and politics, it always comes around to gay marriage. Every freakin' time, like its the only relevant political issue faith has anything to say about. 'Tis ridiculous. Gay marriage is such a non issue in todays world. Fucking look around you. People, both foreign and domestic, are starving to death while others live lives of extreme decadence and waste, the gap separating the haves and the have nots grows wider and wider by the second and the latter are left to die in a policy of social darwinism, people, both foreign an domestic, die in senseless violence and war etc. Faith has ALOT to say about those issues. ALOT. Far more than it has to say about gay marriage. Personally, I don't care nothing about gay marriage. CAn we shut up for two fucking seconds about gay marriage and turn the political discourse around to shit that really matters?
In regards to the original question proposed in this thread. I say, to a degree yes.

surprise...gay people can be selfish too!

But it's kinda like telling black people to shut up about not being able to vote. The rest of us early thinkers have to suffer through it seemingly forever again, and again hearing about it until the masses come to a realization....sigh...

The gay parade thing is a bit warped though... I guess in 20 years we'll be having beastiality parades...

cornnifer

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

Whatever.....I will talk about what I want and when i want okay...and I am aware of what is going on in the world today...sorry for taking two damn seconds to talk about an issue other than war for a change....so dont come on here and blast me for not looking around...HAVE YOU SEEN ME POST IN THE PAST WEEKS....its all been about war and death.....calm the hell down....

Look, I wasn't "blasting" YOU, and wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I just happened to use your post as a reference to the point I'm trying to make. I'm talking specifically about discussions dealing with faith, its influence on politics and the way it ALWAYS ends up boiling down to gay marriage. ALWAYS. The point I'm trying to make, and I aim it at both the religious right and the full of shit "religion is the source of everything evil" crowd, is there is MUCH more to faith than gay marriage. Faith speaks to issues of far greater significance than gay marriage. Sorry if you misinterpreted or were offended by something I said.

RockinInCanada

cornnifer wrote:

Look, I wasn't "blasting" YOU, and wasn't trying to be disrespectful. I just happened to use your post as a reference to the point I'm trying to make. I'm talking specifically about discussions dealing with faith, its influence on politics and the way it ALWAYS ends up boiling down to gay marriage. ALWAYS. The point I'm trying to make, and I aim it at both the religious right and the full of shit "religion is the source of everything evil" crowd, is there is MUCH more to faith than gay marriage. Faith speaks to issues of far greater significance than gay marriage. Sorry if you misinterpreted or were offended by something I said.

I think that gay marriage makes for an excellant and easy to understand example on how chruch and states can be separated and what happens when they are not...thats all...and no problem I dont get offended to easy from a message board....

Rhinocerous Surprise

I think the "simple" question is 'should a government be guided by a single religion's beliefs?' to which the answer is a definite NO. Whether religion should be considered is harder to answer. Henceforth, I have this many answers: No answers.

hippiemom

Barack Obama gave a speech on this topic a few weeks ago. I thought it was quite good. I'm not at all religious, and Obama is, but I find myself agreeing with most of what he says. You can read or listen to it here.

Cosmo

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?

...
HINT: Middle Eastern Foriegn and Domestic policy is guided by religious belief.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

...
HINT: Middle Eastern Foriegn and Domestic policy is guided by religious belief.

Much to the chagrin of the rest of the world ...