A simple question

inmytree

zstillings wrote:

Religion cannot be banned from the political thought process so I do not think that this question can be answered with a blanket statement.

assuming everyone subscribes to some sort of religious belief, you would be correct...but there are some who don't subscribe to any religion, nor care about religion...therefore I feel, it can be done...

to answer the simple question: No...it may take some critical thinking and the ability to understand other, but it can be done...

danmac

zstillings wrote:

Religion cannot be banned from the political thought process so I do not think that this question can be answered with a blanket statement.

Yes it can. Look outside your own borders, see how many nations allow religion to influence the State.

floyd1975

danmac wrote:

Yes it can. Look outside your own borders, see how many nations allow religion to influence the State.

This is why I don't think it can be answered with a blanket statement.

danmac

zstillings wrote:

This is why I don't think it can be answered with a blanket statement.

and wow, yeah, got me thinking here. Look at the nations that DO allow religion to influence the state.

USA, Iran, Israel, UK (big Tony also believes he's doing God's work)

Is there a connection?

Religion influencing the state leads to an increase of war mongering between those nations. Is this a valid, off the cuff thesis?

floyd1975

danmac wrote:

and wow, yeah, got me thinking here. Look at the nations that DO allow religion to influence the state.

USA, Iran, Israel, UK (big Tony also believes he's doing God's work)

Is there a connection?

Religion influencing the state leads to an increase of war mongering between those nations. Is this a valid, off the cuff thesis?

It is more dangerous to ban all religious thought within a free society.

RockinInCanada

zstillings wrote:

It is more dangerous to ban all religious thought within a free society.

100% agree....b/c it takes away freedom of thought and expression; but it is just as deadly to run your country on religious beliefs as well....like I said government & church should be two separate idealogies....

farfromglorified

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?

No. And that means any belief held on faith, not just "religious faith".

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

No. And that means any belief held on faith, not just "religious faith".

Really? We practise faith in a belief when we plan what we are going to do tomorrow. When we reach out to shake the hand of another, we have faith in the belief that they will reciprocate. When we move in any direction, we have faith in the belief that there are consequences to our each actions. Most of us have faith in the belief we will awaken the next day. We move through moment to moment on faith.

What alternative do you propose?

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

Really? We practise faith in a belief when we plan what we are going to do tomorrow.

No we don't, if part of that plan includes the very real knowledge that we might not be there tomorrow.

When we reach out to shake the hand of another, we have faith in the belief that they will reciprocate.

Sure. Do you shoot someone if they don't shake your hand, or do you just feel foolish?

When we move in any direction, we have faith in the belief that there are consequences to our each actions.

No. We have knowledge that there are consequences to our each action.

Most of us have faith in the belief we will awaken the next day. We move through moment to moment on faith.

That would be really sad.

What alternative do you propose?

Acting based on what we know, rather than what we hope.

floyd1975

Rockin'InCanada wrote:

but it is just as deadly to run your country on religious beliefs as well....like I said government & church should be two separate idealogies....

I agree that it is. In a society such as the United States and Canada, those who represent us are, themselves, citizens of the country and afforded the same rights. If religion helps to guide their decisions regarding morality, then restricting that would be stripping them of their rights as well. The separation comes in the form of mandating the practice of a certain religion or the belief in one faith.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

No we don't, if part of that plan includes the very real knowledge that we might not be there tomorrow.



Sure. Do you shoot someone if they don't shake your hand, or do you just feel foolish?



No. We have knowledge that there are consequences to our each action.



That would be really sad.



Acting based on what we know, rather than what we hope.

Knowing comes by experience. If we waited until we had experience with everything, we would do nothing. The catch-22. Each step towards growth, movement or expansion in any direction requires faith. We each operate in faith in each moment.

"knowledge is experience, all the rest is just information". Einstein.

surferdude

zstillings wrote:

I agree that it is. In a society such as the United States and Canada, those who represent us are, themselves, citizens of the country and afforded the same rights. If religion helps to guide their decisions regarding morality, then restricting that would be stripping them of their rights as well. The separation comes in the form of mandating the practice of a certain religion or the belief in one faith.

WOW, someone who understands the seperation of church and state principal. So many people seem to think it means that all politicians must leave their religious based morals at the door when crafting policy or voting on legislation.

angelica

surferdude wrote:

zstillings wrote:

I agree that it is. In a society such as the United States and Canada, those who represent us are, themselves, citizens of the country and afforded the same rights. If religion helps to guide their decisions regarding morality, then restricting that would be stripping them of their rights as well. The separation comes in the form of mandating the practice of a certain religion or the belief in one faith.

WOW, someone who understands the seperation of church and state principal. So many people seem to think it means that all politicians must leave their religious based morals at the door when crafting policy or voting on legislation.

And I support/agree with what both of you say.

PaperPlates

danmac wrote:

Yes it can. Look outside your own borders, see how many nations allow religion to influence the State.

How many exactly dont have any religious basis, influence, or roots in their country's affairs?

farfromglorified

angelica wrote:

Knowing comes by experience.

Certainly, yes.

If we waited until we had experience with everything, we would do nothing. The catch-22. Each step towards growth, movement or expansion in any direction requires faith. We each operate in faith in each moment.

A first step comes from the knowledge that you can take that step. There's a reason that the day you took your first step is not also the same day you died trying to make your first flight.

hippiemom

farfromglorified wrote:

Certainly, yes.



A first step comes from the knowledge that you can take that step. There's a reason that the day you took your first step is not also the same day you died trying to make your first flight.

I don't know about any other kids, but my mom was the only reason my brother never died trying to make his first flight.

know1

If you are truly religious, you cannot separate yourself from that religion and make decisions separate from it.

The question is not phrased very well, because there are people from many, many denominations and religions that play roles in shaping the direction of our country.

angelica

farfromglorified wrote:

Certainly, yes.



A first step comes from the knowledge that you can take that step. There's a reason that the day you took your first step is not also the same day you died trying to make your first flight.

You don't have the knowledge that you can do something until you KNOW, which is experience. You might have the knowledge other people can do it. Or that it is possible. That is not knowing you can do something. Again, we move through each moment in faith. We may minimise it's validity and yet it is glorious how faith can move mountains.

farfromglorified

hippiemom wrote:

I don't know about any other kids, but my mom was the only reason my brother never died trying to make his first flight.

Sounds like your mother was acting on knowledge and your brother was acting on faith. Thankfully knowledge, from the sound of it, won the day.

surferdude

farfromglorified wrote:

Sounds like your mother was acting on knowledge and your brother was acting on faith. Thankfully knowledge, from the sound of it, won the day.

Her brother was acting on the X and Y chromosone principal. The X and Y chromosone principal is the one that lets guys do stupid shit, then tell the story over and over whenever they're out drinking while showing off the scars. The older I get, the better I was.