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A simple question

AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
edited July 2006 in A Moving Train
Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
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    rightonduderightondude Posts: 745
    hmm,

    I have a simple question: Why do the simple questions sometimes hurt my head the most?

    As we come together from all reaches, colors and beliefs, we will need to simplify actions down into right or wrong. God has to be there in name but only the most basic of concepts towards right and wrong should apply to law.

    my 0.0000000000125 cents...
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    chopitdownchopitdown Posts: 2,222
    depends.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
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    decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,976
    is this a trick question? :confused:

    i mean, it seems obvious to me...of course not. it should be based on what we as a collective society believe in, as voters of the nation, etc...so while sure, many are religious and may vote based on religious beliefs, it would not be based on any sole set of religious beliefs, but on what is valued as a priority as a nation. seperation of church and state in all government, was a damn fine idea in its inception, and still is today.
    Stay with me...
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    AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,569
    absolutely not, it makes no sense, because anything religion is right about should be concluded to logically aswell.

    For you "traditional" folks. The united states was colonized for religious freedom. So it would make no sense to disobey that concept by guiding the country by a single religion. It's precisely the reason American colonist colonized America.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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    MeatwagonMeatwagon Posts: 108
    I don't think you can really seperate to two sides to be honest. We do have it in writing, and make an effort to follow the guidelines we set for ourselves. The problem is religon is set so deep in our society that it can affect almost any decision made. It's the whole your surroundings shape who you will be deal. Some people just take it further than others.
    Axis of justice.com
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    AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    It seems to me at least, that a lot of people are basing their support for Israel on their religious beliefs and expect the world to follow suit. That is quite scary to me.

    And then this thing about radical Islam being satanic or guided by satan...each side obviously feels what they are doing is the 'right' thing for their people. I don't think one set of people are actually setting out to do evil work upon man. It just seems crazy to think this way to me.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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    LikeAnOceanLikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?
    Most religious beliefs are common sense though.. Don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat, ec.. Wether Allah, Jesus, Budha or Joe down the street says them, most would agree.
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    MeatwagonMeatwagon Posts: 108
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    It seems to me at least, that a lot of people are basing their support for Israel on their religious beliefs and expect the world to follow suit. That is quite scary to me.

    And then this thing about radical Islam being satanic or guided by satan...each side obviously feels what they are doing is the 'right' thing for their people. I don't think one set of people are actually setting out to do evil work upon man. It just seems crazy to think this way to me.
    So this was leading up to somthing....I don't look at this with much of a religous eye. I have trouble seeing the pain and suffering that is passed out to the masses in the name of a higher power being anything but an excuse! An excuse to gain more power. An excuse to secure your land from terrorists. An excuse for spreading Democracy. An excuse to just go to war and make money. I'm still trying to make heads or tails about Isreal and what role we play, besides arming them. I'm a bit lost:(
    Axis of justice.com
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    HoonHoon Posts: 175
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?


    Well, separation of Church and State is very important.

    The minority and others opinions and ways of life must be respected.


    But YES, our foreign and domestic policies should be guided by Religious Beliefs.


    Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is.
    Mohandas Gandhi

    p.s.

    Perhaps when an extremest "blank" or an extremest "blank" do something baaaaad they should cease to be associated with their religion at that moment.
    If you keep yourself as the final arbiter you will be less susceptible to infection from cultural illusion.
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    rightonduderightondude Posts: 745
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    It seems to me at least, that a lot of people are basing their support for Israel on their religious beliefs and expect the world to follow suit. That is quite scary to me.

    And then this thing about radical Islam being satanic or guided by satan...each side obviously feels what they are doing is the 'right' thing for their people. I don't think one set of people are actually setting out to do evil work upon man. It just seems crazy to think this way to me.

    Yeah, you just can't put a religious label on politics and run the course accordingly.

    What a recipe for disaster. The notion of God should be upheld at that level in notion of goodness, but not in actual practice. Two different entities. You can see some of how well the middle east is faring because of their religious beliefs interfering with political reason...

    It's like mixing business and pleasure sorta...
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    hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    It seems to me at least, that a lot of people are basing their support for Israel on their religious beliefs and expect the world to follow suit. That is quite scary to me.

    And then this thing about radical Islam being satanic or guided by satan...each side obviously feels what they are doing is the 'right' thing for their people. I don't think one set of people are actually setting out to do evil work upon man. It just seems crazy to think this way to me.

    Well, you seem crazy to me quite often too.
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    IWillLiveForeveIWillLiveForeve Posts: 427
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    Most religious beliefs are common sense though.. Don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat, ec.. Wether Allah, Jesus, Budha or Joe down the street says them, most would agree.

    This is pretty much right. the problem lies in the extremists. Most muslims have the same approach to life that we do. the hard liners are the ones that always make things fucked. total 'one bad apple' syndrome.
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    AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Well, you seem crazy to me quite often too.

    How so?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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    keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    LikeAnOcean wrote:
    Most religious beliefs are common sense though.. Don't kill, don't steal, don't cheat, ec.. Wether Allah, Jesus, Budha or Joe down the street says them, most would agree.

    Good post.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
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    hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    How so?

    The same way I seem to crazy to you I suppose.
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    AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    hailhailkc wrote:
    The same way I seem to crazy to you I suppose.

    I didn't say you were crazy. I said I thought viewing a group of people as being evil seemed crazy to me (the thought, not you as a person). I guess to you it seems possible.

    So how do I seem crazy?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?


    NO
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    AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Hoon wrote:
    Well, separation of Church and State is very important.

    The minority and others opinions and ways of life must be respected.


    But YES, our foreign and domestic policies should be guided by Religious Beliefs.


    Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is.
    Mohandas Gandhi

    p.s.

    Perhaps when an extremest "blank" or an extremest "blank" do something baaaaad they should cease to be associated with their religion at that moment.

    If religion is driving people to support the genocide of the palestinian people then I say no, we can do without this for sure.

    410 to 8 in congress hold the same belief. it seems like the 8 are the ones not being associated with this particular belief.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
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    soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,208
    guided? maybe. dictated? no fucking way.
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    floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Religion cannot be banned from the political thought process so I do not think that this question can be answered with a blanket statement.
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    inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    zstillings wrote:
    Religion cannot be banned from the political thought process so I do not think that this question can be answered with a blanket statement.


    assuming everyone subscribes to some sort of religious belief, you would be correct...but there are some who don't subscribe to any religion, nor care about religion...therefore I feel, it can be done...

    to answer the simple question: No...it may take some critical thinking and the ability to understand other, but it can be done...
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    danmacdanmac Posts: 387
    zstillings wrote:
    Religion cannot be banned from the political thought process so I do not think that this question can be answered with a blanket statement.


    Yes it can. Look outside your own borders, see how many nations allow religion to influence the State.
    A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
    are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
    god-fearing and pious: Aristotle

    Viva Zapatista!
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    floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    danmac wrote:
    Yes it can. Look outside your own borders, see how many nations allow religion to influence the State.

    This is why I don't think it can be answered with a blanket statement.
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    danmacdanmac Posts: 387
    zstillings wrote:
    This is why I don't think it can be answered with a blanket statement.


    and wow, yeah, got me thinking here. Look at the nations that DO allow religion to influence the state.

    USA, Iran, Israel, UK (big Tony also believes he's doing God's work)

    Is there a connection?

    Religion influencing the state leads to an increase of war mongering between those nations. Is this a valid, off the cuff thesis?
    A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
    are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
    god-fearing and pious: Aristotle

    Viva Zapatista!
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    floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    danmac wrote:
    and wow, yeah, got me thinking here. Look at the nations that DO allow religion to influence the state.

    USA, Iran, Israel, UK (big Tony also believes he's doing God's work)

    Is there a connection?

    Religion influencing the state leads to an increase of war mongering between those nations. Is this a valid, off the cuff thesis?

    It is more dangerous to ban all religious thought within a free society.
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    RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    zstillings wrote:
    It is more dangerous to ban all religious thought within a free society.

    100% agree....b/c it takes away freedom of thought and expression; but it is just as deadly to run your country on religious beliefs as well....like I said government & church should be two separate idealogies....
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    farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Should our foreign and even domestic policies be guided by religious beliefs?

    No. And that means any belief held on faith, not just "religious faith".
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    angelicaangelica Posts: 6,053
    farfromglorified wrote:
    No. And that means any belief held on faith, not just "religious faith".
    Really? We practise faith in a belief when we plan what we are going to do tomorrow. When we reach out to shake the hand of another, we have faith in the belief that they will reciprocate. When we move in any direction, we have faith in the belief that there are consequences to our each actions. Most of us have faith in the belief we will awaken the next day. We move through moment to moment on faith.

    What alternative do you propose?
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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    farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    angelica wrote:
    Really? We practise faith in a belief when we plan what we are going to do tomorrow.

    No we don't, if part of that plan includes the very real knowledge that we might not be there tomorrow.
    When we reach out to shake the hand of another, we have faith in the belief that they will reciprocate.

    Sure. Do you shoot someone if they don't shake your hand, or do you just feel foolish?
    When we move in any direction, we have faith in the belief that there are consequences to our each actions.

    No. We have knowledge that there are consequences to our each action.
    Most of us have faith in the belief we will awaken the next day. We move through moment to moment on faith.

    That would be really sad.
    What alternative do you propose?

    Acting based on what we know, rather than what we hope.
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    floyd1975floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    but it is just as deadly to run your country on religious beliefs as well....like I said government & church should be two separate idealogies....

    I agree that it is. In a society such as the United States and Canada, those who represent us are, themselves, citizens of the country and afforded the same rights. If religion helps to guide their decisions regarding morality, then restricting that would be stripping them of their rights as well. The separation comes in the form of mandating the practice of a certain religion or the belief in one faith.
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