i use both wings to fly. the left wing is wrong half the time; as the right wing is wrong half the time. one must seek balance and be open to both points of view.
I totally agree with this. It's only with both wings and balance that we can soar. I'm also a fan of living in the world but not being so much "of" the world. I'm a bit separated myself, although it's not by distance, but by my mindset and imagination--there is a real freedom to be found in "inner space".
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I totally agree with this. It's only with both wings and balance that we can soar. I'm also a fan of living in the world but not being so much "of" the world. I'm a bit separated myself, although it's not by distance, but by my mindset and imagination--there is a real freedom to be found in "inner space".
i moved away from civilization. i use solar power and provide my own food. "inner space" has provided "inner peace". i sell buffalo meat to the public and will incorporate just before i open my website. for protection and tax purposes mostly. corporations are not bad. once again it's the people who run them. man is the earths ONLY enemy.
Ok...care to provide a single piece of causal evidence that can link these 14 corporations to "pushing the idea that their security was in jeopardy"??? How would respond if I claimed that the labor unions were doing this??? Hopefully you'd ask for the same evidence.
I never said all of these particular corporations were linked to war profiteering. I think the answer is obvious if a corporation is contributing heavily to one's campaign and then hit paydirt once he's in office with a needless war based on lies no less, in which they recieve no bid contracts. It's not enough for you, I guess....a world full of coincidences seems more unlikely to me. There's not always gonna be some smoking gun we can all point to...doesn't take away fomr the point though.
The facts are not there. Only a few of them are. Especially chosen for the purpose. How would you respond if I posted an article called "The 14 Best Corporate Angels" and never mentioned anything about labor problems, greed, or war profitteering? Would you allow me to hind behind "the facts are there"??? I would hope not.
Well this is a discussion. If you have more facts that I'm not seeing or amunaware of feel free to show them to me. Just because I didn't include every piece of information out there on these corporations doesn't take away from the facts I did post so no, I don't see it as half assed at all. I am not trying to purposely hide anything about these companies. I'm sure they must do some good sometimes but I highly doubt it will out weigh the harm they cause. Once again if you have information to point otherwise, please do share it with us.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I never said all of these particular corporations were linked to war profiteering. I think the answer is obvious if a corporation is contributing heavily to one's campaign and then hit paydirt once he's in office with a needless war based on lies no less, in which they recieve no bid contracts.
That, to you, is proof? Ok. Do you believe then that Halliburton was behind the Bosnia mission? They received no-bid contracts then, and contributed directly to both Clinton and many members of Congress. Was Fluor Corp responsible for Hurrican Katrina? They received a no-bid contract as well.
It's not enough for you, I guess....a world full of coincidences seems more unlikely to me. There's not always gonna be some smoking gun we can all point to...doesn't take away fomr the point though.
I'm not suggesting "a world full of coincidences". It is not a coincidence that an established government contractor who has executed this exact type work receives a no-bid extension on an existing contract. I don't agree with the approach, but it's not new, shocking, or unique to this administration.
Well this is a discussion. If you have more facts that I'm not seeing or amunaware of feel free to show them to me. Just because I didn't include every piece of information out there on these corporations doesn't take away from the facts I did post so no, I don't see it as half assed at all. I am not trying to purposely hide anything about these companies. I'm sure they must do some good sometimes but I highly doubt it will out weigh the harm they cause. Once again if you have information to point otherwise, please do share it with us.
I'd be happy to share some facts, if you're genuinely interested in hearing them. But when you say this: "I'm sure they must do some good sometimes but I highly doubt it will out weigh the harm they cause", it tells me you have no genuine interest. If you can explain how you arrived at that conclusion, I'll happily share some facts of interest.
Ford does have a mediocre enviromental record- and are working to correct it... and i believe (i could be wrong on this one, but i dont think so) EVERY auto company was a part of the coalition mentioned against changing the laws.
however, this evil corporation also has amoung the best health care benefits for its entire workforce (union and otherwise)... AND also extends equal benefits to those involved in Same Sex Domestic Partnerships.... It also was willing to alienate many of its dealers wishes (and many of its most loyal customers) and respond to the American Family Associations boycotts by INCREASING its presence in the gay community.
but i suppose those things need to be over looked in order to paint them as one of the "worst corporations"
Ford does have a mediocre enviromental record- and are working to correct it... and i believe (i could be wrong on this one, but i dont think so) EVERY auto company was a part of the coalition mentioned against changing the laws.
however, this evil corporation also has amoung the best health care benefits for its entire workforce (union and otherwise)... AND also extends equal benefits to those involved in Same Sex Domestic Partnerships.... It also was willing to alienate many of its dealers wishes (and many of its most loyal customers) and respond to the American Family Associations boycotts by INCREASING its presence in the gay community.
but i suppose those things need to be over looked in order to paint them as one of the "worst corporations"
Thank you. I would say if your big on the environment then the bad out weights the good. But if that's not the biggest concern then I can understand supporting them still.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That, to you, is proof? Ok. Do you believe then that Halliburton was behind the Bosnia mission? They received no-bid contracts then, and contributed directly to both Clinton and many members of Congress. Was Fluor Corp responsible for Hurrican Katrina? They received a no-bid contract as well.
I'm not suggesting "a world full of coincidences". It is not a coincidence that an established government contractor who has executed this exact type work receives a no-bid extension on an existing contract. I don't agree with the approach, but it's not new, shocking, or unique to this administration.
I'd be happy to share some facts, if you're genuinely interested in hearing them. But when you say this: "I'm sure they must do some good sometimes but I highly doubt it will out weigh the harm they cause", it tells me you have no genuine interest. If you can explain how you arrived at that conclusion, I'll happily share some facts of interest.
Of course I do...having a high amount of doubt doesn't equal no genuine interest, it only means I'm doubtful.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
then for a while you refused to address the topic of the post and instead made personal attacks
I'm done with you. You either can't read/understand at all, or you are simply baiting people. The post you reference above doesn't remotely anything close to what you implied I said in this thread.
Secondly, the personal attacks weren't in that thread, but that thread is a good example of why they were needed. You titled the thread to make it seem that it was about the CEO, and then when someone was confused by that, you mentioned that the article didn't really express your opinion accurately..and THAT was the whole point I was trying to make about you just posting a bunch of links with no comment.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I never claimed it in my post. I claimed that in a War, war-related service providers will profit. Does Halliburton make money from war? Sure. They're making money from this war, they made money from the Bosnia war, they made money from the Vietnam war. They also make money from peacekeeping operations in Haiti and elsewhere. Just because a company profits from a war doesn't mean that the company engineered the war.
how about if the former CEO of that company is the one pushing the war, isn't that engineering it?
and used cars salesmen (as in the stereotypical swindler) is just doing his job, too, right?
Halliburton's profit is not "innocent". I would never claim that. It is the direct product of the need for their services and the government paying them. Haliiburton would never see a dime of my money if it wasn't for the government that forces me to pay them.
or the government (cheney) pushing for the war. was there REALLY a direct need for their services? do you honestly believe we had no other choice but to invade iraq and go on a nation building mission?
I misunderstood that part of your post. I thought you were accusing me of having some hidden agenda. As for the section you were referring to:
"As the Center for Corporate Policy (http://www.corporatepolicy.org) notes, it is no coincidence that Lockheed VP Bruce Jackson--who helped draft the Republican foreign policy platform in 2000--is a key player at the Project for a New American Century, the intellectual incubator of the Iraq war."
I can understand how you like that. It's a nice sideways "proof" that requires no evidence. The "facts" presented above make no mention that Mr. Jackson, aside from being a VP at Lockheed has served in numerous governmental roles. It is not shocking that he played a part in PNAC.
and not shocking that pnac pushed for war w/ iraq back in 2000?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Yes. I heard a number of American people say that.
No. It was the American ppl believing that.
No. It was the American ppl believing that.
Yes. I heard that from many American people.
Yes. I heard that from many American people.
Yes. I heard that from many American people.
Yes. I heard that from many American people.
Yes. I heard that from many American people.
No.
and...how many were true??
so..if they were lies, cherrypicked, manipulated...however you choose to call it WHY would they say these things? WHY did they need to choose war over diplomacy?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Wrong. The anti-americanism of that article is so cut and dry its unbelievable. But you liberal sheeple swallow it, hook line and sinker!
there was a french company on there, too...i'm guess you only skimmed thru the article?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I'm done with you. You either can't read/understand at all, or you are simply baiting people. The post you reference above doesn't remotely anything close to what you implied I said in this thread.
Secondly, the personal attacks weren't in that thread, but that thread is a good example of why they were needed. You titled the thread to make it seem that it was about the CEO, and then when someone was confused by that, you mentioned that the article didn't really express your opinion accurately..and THAT was the whole point I was trying to make about you just posting a bunch of links with no comment.
maybe you can't read...try reading hte thread again (the halliburton one...stuff about i do nothing but whine and complain all day...)...you were attacking long before i made that comment and YOU KNOW IT
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Don't you find it odd that your sources present so little information on these companies?
For instance, they'll happily mention that Caterpillar equipment is used to destroy 4,000 Palestinian homes. But they make no mention of the millions upon millions of homes throughout the world built with Caterpillar equipment. They'll tell you about a single Palestinian hospital demolished using Caterpillar equipment but they don't tell you about the thousands worldwide built with them.
Your sources will tell you about Caterpillar D9s that are used by the Israeli military. But they won't tell you that the Israeli military is the one outfitting those D9s as armored units. Why aren't they calling for a boycot of the armor manufacturers? Or, more aptly, a taxpayer boycott that would cut off funding for all of it?
Your sources will tell you about a Caterpillar D9 used to destroy a Palestinian school. But they won't tell you about the schools built with them. Furthermore, they won't tell you that Caterpillar is the leading supplier of school bus engines...engines that now run at 30% of the emissions of a decade ago.
By the way, you stole $1.2 billion in tax payments from Caterpillar last year.
Your sources will tell you the Pfizer violates the human "right" to the anti-HIV drugs Rescriptor, Viracept and Diflucan. What they fail to mention is that without Pfizer and its subsidaries that "right" would not exist becuase those anti-HIV drugs would be nothing more than a dream. Not a single person in this world would have access to those drugs without the men and women that created them and produce them. Furthermore, they make no mention of the millions that would have died save for Pfizer's production of penicillin over the past 100 years. They make no mention of the other drugs produced by Pfizer that save millions of lives throughout the world every year.
By the way, you stole $3.4 billion in tax payments from Pfizer last year.
Your sources will tell you that Halliburton served a bad meal to US troops. But they won't tell you about the hundreds of good meals served to US troops. They'll tell you about the no-bid contract Halliburton "received" from Dick Cheney. But they won't tell you that the contract is just an extension of contracts from before Cheney was in office. They'll tell you that Halliburton's revenues have skyrocketed, but they won't tell you that Halliburton is building oil distribution networks in Iraq that will help the revenues of the Iraqi state skyrocket.
By the way, your stole $79 million in tax payments from Halliburton last year.
Are any of these companies perfect? Definitely not. Are some of them involved in willful neglect, criminal activity, and unethical behavior? Certainly. But to pretend that, by default, those unethical acts define those corporations is as ridiculous as pretending that unethical acts define men.
Rather that culling your information from youtube "documentaries" and prisonplanet "exposes" I'd encourage you to research these firms from unbiased sources like Wikipedia and financial information clearinghouses. Learn about their practices, good and bad. Learn about their products, good and bad. Learn about their missions and ethics, good and bad. Learn about their employees and executives, good and bad. But to pretend that you've "researched" a firm by looking at information from sources with built-in biases either reflects laziness or an willful neglect of the available information.
None of them, really. At least not in the way they intended. But there were plenty of us who didn't say them and didn't believe them.
so..if they were lies, cherrypicked, manipulated...however you choose to call it WHY would they say these things? WHY did they need to choose war over diplomacy?
They would say these things for the exact same reason you say what you say: they had made up their minds before considering the facts.
how about if the former CEO of that company is the one pushing the war, isn't that engineering it?
No. Particularly considering the word "former". Particularly considering that he will see absolutely no profit from Halliburton's actions.
or the government (cheney) pushing for the war. was there REALLY a direct need for their services? do you honestly believe we had no other choice but to invade iraq and go on a nation building mission?
Of course not! We had many other choices. My point is that once we were at war, it's perfectly natural that Halliburton would provide services.
i demonstrated it w/ thier rhetoric i already posted saying they HAD nukes, they HAD bioweapons, mushroom clouds...
That isn't demonstrating a link to Halliburton. At best that's demonstrating the stupidity of those who said it.
if a salesman sells you something and promises it does all these things and it ends up being a lie...you see where i'm going w/ this?
Does that mean Ford (or whatever brand of car he's selling) is behind his lies?????
and not shocking that pnac pushed for war w/ iraq back in 2000?
Considering their platform, it's not shocking at all.
Don't you find it odd that your sources present so little information on these companies?
For instance, they'll happily mention that Caterpillar equipment is used to destroy 4,000 Palestinian homes. But they make no mention of the millions upon millions of homes throughout the world built with Caterpillar equipment. They'll tell you about a single Palestinian hospital demolished using Caterpillar equipment but they don't tell you about the thousands worldwide built with them.
Your sources will tell you about Caterpillar D9s that are used by the Israeli military. But they won't tell you that the Israeli military is the one outfitting those D9s as armored units. Why aren't they calling for a boycot of the armor manufacturers? Or, more aptly, a taxpayer boycott that would cut off funding for all of it?
Your sources will tell you about a Caterpillar D9 used to destroy a Palestinian school. But they won't tell you about the schools built with them. Furthermore, they won't tell you that Caterpillar is the leading supplier of school bus engines...engines that now run at 30% of the emissions of a decade ago.
By the way, you stole $1.2 billion in tax payments from Caterpillar last year.
Your sources will tell you the Pfizer violates the human "right" to the anti-HIV drugs Rescriptor, Viracept and Diflucan. What they fail to mention is that without Pfizer and its subsidaries that "right" would not exist becuase those anti-HIV drugs would be nothing more than a dream. Not a single person in this world would have access to those drugs without the men and women that created them and produce them. Furthermore, they make no mention of the millions that would have died save for Pfizer's production of penicillin over the past 100 years. They make no mention of the other drugs produced by Pfizer that save millions of lives throughout the world every year.
By the way, you stole $3.4 billion in tax payments from Pfizer last year.
Your sources will tell you that Halliburton served a bad meal to US troops. But they won't tell you about the hundreds of good meals served to US troops. They'll tell you about the no-bid contract Halliburton "received" from Dick Cheney. But they won't tell you that the contract is just an extension of contracts from before Cheney was in office. They'll tell you that Halliburton's revenues have skyrocketed, but they won't tell you that Halliburton is building oil distribution networks in Iraq that will help the revenues of the Iraqi state skyrocket.
By the way, your stole $79 million in tax payments from Halliburton last year.
Are any of these companies perfect? Definitely not. Are some of them involved in willful neglect, criminal activity, and unethical behavior? Certainly. But to pretend that, by default, those unethical acts define those corporations is as ridiculous as pretending that unethical acts define men.
Rather that culling your information from youtube "documentaries" and prisonplanet "exposes" I'd encourage you to research these firms from unbiased sources like Wikipedia and financial information clearinghouses. Learn about their practices, good and bad. Learn about their products, good and bad. Learn about their missions and ethics, good and bad. Learn about their employees and executives, good and bad. But to pretend that you've "researched" a firm by looking at information from sources with built-in biases either reflects laziness or an willful neglect of the available information.
You know full well those little clips and one article weren't my only sources that I have ever viewed. I didn't steal shit from them. And they have no reason to be getting away with these practices...it's called being a crook. All the good from these companies could still have been performed without the crooked shit they do to squeeze more profits out.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Why is Coca-Cola on this list, but Pepsico isn't? The latter has done just as much to fund corrupt regimes and exploit poor workers as Coke has. Google it ...
And the Caterpillar thing is a joke. Come on, be serious already ... Bulldozers are WMD now, or something? This is the same logic that people use when they say that weapons manufacturers should be sued whenever someone is killed.
What if the Isrealis used other means to knock down said houses? Would people who make sledgehammers then wind up on the list?
And the Caterpillar thing is a joke. Come on, be serious already ... Bulldozers are WMD now, or something? This is the same logic that people use when they say that weapons manufacturers should be sued whenever someone is killed.
What if the Isrealis used other means to knock down said houses? Would people who make sledgehammers then wind up on the list?
were these average, everyday, run of the mill sledgehammers or was the company modifying these sledgehammers specifically for the IDF? were the sledgehammers being sold knowing they would be used for this purpose?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
were these average, everyday, run of the mill sledgehammers or was the company modifying these sledgehammers specifically for the IDF? were the sledgehammers being sold knowing they would be used for this purpose?
These bulldozers were specifically tailored for Palestinian house destruction? Militaries all over the world use armoured bulldozers. Israel has a lot of tanks, too. Manufactured by British, American, and Russian firms. We'd better add them all to the list too. In fact, Isreal imports a lot of food, right? Food used to feed babykilling IDF stormtroopers, no doubt. All these countries who do this need to be on the list ...
Don't you find it odd that your sources present so little information on these companies?
For instance, they'll happily mention that Caterpillar equipment is used to destroy 4,000 Palestinian homes. But they make no mention of the millions upon millions of homes throughout the world built with Caterpillar equipment. They'll tell you about a single Palestinian hospital demolished using Caterpillar equipment but they don't tell you about the thousands worldwide built with them.
Your sources will tell you about Caterpillar D9s that are used by the Israeli military. But they won't tell you that the Israeli military is the one outfitting those D9s as armored units. Why aren't they calling for a boycot of the armor manufacturers? Or, more aptly, a taxpayer boycott that would cut off funding for all of it?
Your sources will tell you about a Caterpillar D9 used to destroy a Palestinian school. But they won't tell you about the schools built with them. Furthermore, they won't tell you that Caterpillar is the leading supplier of school bus engines...engines that now run at 30% of the emissions of a decade ago.
By the way, you stole $1.2 billion in tax payments from Caterpillar last year.
Your sources will tell you the Pfizer violates the human "right" to the anti-HIV drugs Rescriptor, Viracept and Diflucan. What they fail to mention is that without Pfizer and its subsidaries that "right" would not exist becuase those anti-HIV drugs would be nothing more than a dream. Not a single person in this world would have access to those drugs without the men and women that created them and produce them. Furthermore, they make no mention of the millions that would have died save for Pfizer's production of penicillin over the past 100 years. They make no mention of the other drugs produced by Pfizer that save millions of lives throughout the world every year.
By the way, you stole $3.4 billion in tax payments from Pfizer last year.
Your sources will tell you that Halliburton served a bad meal to US troops. But they won't tell you about the hundreds of good meals served to US troops. They'll tell you about the no-bid contract Halliburton "received" from Dick Cheney. But they won't tell you that the contract is just an extension of contracts from before Cheney was in office. They'll tell you that Halliburton's revenues have skyrocketed, but they won't tell you that Halliburton is building oil distribution networks in Iraq that will help the revenues of the Iraqi state skyrocket.
By the way, your stole $79 million in tax payments from Halliburton last year.
Are any of these companies perfect? Definitely not. Are some of them involved in willful neglect, criminal activity, and unethical behavior? Certainly. But to pretend that, by default, those unethical acts define those corporations is as ridiculous as pretending that unethical acts define men.
Rather that culling your information from youtube "documentaries" and prisonplanet "exposes" I'd encourage you to research these firms from unbiased sources like Wikipedia and financial information clearinghouses. Learn about their practices, good and bad. Learn about their products, good and bad. Learn about their missions and ethics, good and bad. Learn about their employees and executives, good and bad. But to pretend that you've "researched" a firm by looking at information from sources with built-in biases either reflects laziness or an willful neglect of the available information.
- the caterpillars used to build schools are not violating the UN and no human rights abuses are being done
-i'm sure even w/o pfizer the scientist(s) could still create aids drugs. as you said "...w/ the men and women who created them' men and women, not a corporation. it still could've been done. still doesn't mean they should hold up cheaper generics from being manufactured.
-there is a huuuuuuuge difference between a good meal and serving our soldiers SPOILED meat knowingly, wouldn't you agree? so if you went into your favorite place to eat and the meat was spoiled, would you want to pay for it? what if they said 'but you came in yesterday and the meat was good!!' no...i'm guessing you'd refuse to pay for it let alone give them a huge tip on top of payment
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
These bulldozers were specifically tailored for Palestinian house destruction? Militaries all over the world use armoured bulldozers. Israel has a lot of tanks, too. Manufactured by British, American, and Russian firms. We'd better add them all to the list too. In fact, Isreal imports a lot of food, right? Food used to feed babykilling IDF stormtroopers, no doubt. All these countries who do this need to be on the list ...
The Caterpillar Corporation claims that, "With regard to Israel, sales between Caterpillar and the U.S. government are openly conducted through the U.S. Foreign Military Sales Program." The U.S. government buys Caterpillar bulldozers and sends them to Israel as part of our country's annual foreign military assistance package. Such sales are governed by the U.S. Arms Export Control Act (Public Law 90-829), which limits the use of U.S. military aid to "internal security" and "legitimate self-defense" and prohibits its use against civilians.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I read articles all the time. So many have been posted here. If you have some articles stating the positives of any of these companies then post them or refer me to them. I use wikipedia as a source from time to time as well (people sometimes complain it's a bad source). Are you suggesting that I don't read things, just go along with what other lefties tell me to? I make up my own mind, just because we don't come to the same conclusion doesn't discredit my opinion of it.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Why is Coca-Cola on this list, but Pepsico isn't? The latter has done just as much to fund corrupt regimes and exploit poor workers as Coke has. Google it ...
I agree that they are both corrupt.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating. Why is Coca-Cola on this list, but Pepsico isn't? The latter has done just as much to fund corrupt regimes and exploit poor workers as Coke has. Google it ...
coke privatizes water and even makes it illegal to collect rain water...not sure if pepsi does that, but it could tip them over the scale of being worse than pepsi (which does do bad stuff, too)
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
None of them, really. At least not in the way they intended. But there were plenty of us who didn't say them and didn't believe them.
so none were correct...to summarize:
cheney helped spread what you agree to be misinformation
b/c of the spreading of this misinfo the public gave enough support for war
b/c of this war former companies and friends are profiting in corrupt ways
so then why did he help spread the misinfo if it wasn't to go to war and profit?
They would say these things for the exact same reason you say what you say: they had made up their minds before considering the facts.
and why did they make up their minds towards that particular solution (war)?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i moved away from civilization. i use solar power and provide my own food. "inner space" has provided "inner peace". i sell buffalo meat to the public and will incorporate just before i open my website. for protection and tax purposes mostly. corporations are not bad. once again it's the people who run them. man is the earths ONLY enemy.
I never said all of these particular corporations were linked to war profiteering. I think the answer is obvious if a corporation is contributing heavily to one's campaign and then hit paydirt once he's in office with a needless war based on lies no less, in which they recieve no bid contracts. It's not enough for you, I guess....a world full of coincidences seems more unlikely to me. There's not always gonna be some smoking gun we can all point to...doesn't take away fomr the point though.
Well this is a discussion. If you have more facts that I'm not seeing or amunaware of feel free to show them to me. Just because I didn't include every piece of information out there on these corporations doesn't take away from the facts I did post so no, I don't see it as half assed at all. I am not trying to purposely hide anything about these companies. I'm sure they must do some good sometimes but I highly doubt it will out weigh the harm they cause. Once again if you have information to point otherwise, please do share it with us.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That, to you, is proof? Ok. Do you believe then that Halliburton was behind the Bosnia mission? They received no-bid contracts then, and contributed directly to both Clinton and many members of Congress. Was Fluor Corp responsible for Hurrican Katrina? They received a no-bid contract as well.
I'm not suggesting "a world full of coincidences". It is not a coincidence that an established government contractor who has executed this exact type work receives a no-bid extension on an existing contract. I don't agree with the approach, but it's not new, shocking, or unique to this administration.
I'd be happy to share some facts, if you're genuinely interested in hearing them. But when you say this: "I'm sure they must do some good sometimes but I highly doubt it will out weigh the harm they cause", it tells me you have no genuine interest. If you can explain how you arrived at that conclusion, I'll happily share some facts of interest.
Ford does have a mediocre enviromental record- and are working to correct it... and i believe (i could be wrong on this one, but i dont think so) EVERY auto company was a part of the coalition mentioned against changing the laws.
however, this evil corporation also has amoung the best health care benefits for its entire workforce (union and otherwise)... AND also extends equal benefits to those involved in Same Sex Domestic Partnerships.... It also was willing to alienate many of its dealers wishes (and many of its most loyal customers) and respond to the American Family Associations boycotts by INCREASING its presence in the gay community.
but i suppose those things need to be over looked in order to paint them as one of the "worst corporations"
Thank you. I would say if your big on the environment then the bad out weights the good. But if that's not the biggest concern then I can understand supporting them still.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Of course I do...having a high amount of doubt doesn't equal no genuine interest, it only means I'm doubtful.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm done with you. You either can't read/understand at all, or you are simply baiting people. The post you reference above doesn't remotely anything close to what you implied I said in this thread.
Secondly, the personal attacks weren't in that thread, but that thread is a good example of why they were needed. You titled the thread to make it seem that it was about the CEO, and then when someone was confused by that, you mentioned that the article didn't really express your opinion accurately..and THAT was the whole point I was trying to make about you just posting a bunch of links with no comment.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Abook, my question is a simple one: where does the doubt come from? How did you arrive at the conclusion that these companies do more harm than good?
Things that I have read and seen about them of course.
Here's a teaser for an interesting looking doc on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp1CZzv8gJo
this has some interest bits of info and stats in it as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flWE_dy1bYY
If you have something I need to know about these guys, please share it, I'm all ears.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
how about if the former CEO of that company is the one pushing the war, isn't that engineering it?
and used cars salesmen (as in the stereotypical swindler) is just doing his job, too, right?
or the government (cheney) pushing for the war. was there REALLY a direct need for their services? do you honestly believe we had no other choice but to invade iraq and go on a nation building mission?
i demonstrated it w/ thier rhetoric i already posted saying they HAD nukes, they HAD bioweapons, mushroom clouds...
if a salesman sells you something and promises it does all these things and it ends up being a lie...you see where i'm going w/ this?
and not shocking that pnac pushed for war w/ iraq back in 2000?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
and...how many were true??
so..if they were lies, cherrypicked, manipulated...however you choose to call it WHY would they say these things? WHY did they need to choose war over diplomacy?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
there was a french company on there, too...i'm guess you only skimmed thru the article?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
maybe you can't read...try reading hte thread again (the halliburton one...stuff about i do nothing but whine and complain all day...)...you were attacking long before i made that comment and YOU KNOW IT
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Don't you find it odd that your sources present so little information on these companies?
For instance, they'll happily mention that Caterpillar equipment is used to destroy 4,000 Palestinian homes. But they make no mention of the millions upon millions of homes throughout the world built with Caterpillar equipment. They'll tell you about a single Palestinian hospital demolished using Caterpillar equipment but they don't tell you about the thousands worldwide built with them.
Your sources will tell you about Caterpillar D9s that are used by the Israeli military. But they won't tell you that the Israeli military is the one outfitting those D9s as armored units. Why aren't they calling for a boycot of the armor manufacturers? Or, more aptly, a taxpayer boycott that would cut off funding for all of it?
Your sources will tell you about a Caterpillar D9 used to destroy a Palestinian school. But they won't tell you about the schools built with them. Furthermore, they won't tell you that Caterpillar is the leading supplier of school bus engines...engines that now run at 30% of the emissions of a decade ago.
By the way, you stole $1.2 billion in tax payments from Caterpillar last year.
Your sources will tell you the Pfizer violates the human "right" to the anti-HIV drugs Rescriptor, Viracept and Diflucan. What they fail to mention is that without Pfizer and its subsidaries that "right" would not exist becuase those anti-HIV drugs would be nothing more than a dream. Not a single person in this world would have access to those drugs without the men and women that created them and produce them. Furthermore, they make no mention of the millions that would have died save for Pfizer's production of penicillin over the past 100 years. They make no mention of the other drugs produced by Pfizer that save millions of lives throughout the world every year.
By the way, you stole $3.4 billion in tax payments from Pfizer last year.
Your sources will tell you that Halliburton served a bad meal to US troops. But they won't tell you about the hundreds of good meals served to US troops. They'll tell you about the no-bid contract Halliburton "received" from Dick Cheney. But they won't tell you that the contract is just an extension of contracts from before Cheney was in office. They'll tell you that Halliburton's revenues have skyrocketed, but they won't tell you that Halliburton is building oil distribution networks in Iraq that will help the revenues of the Iraqi state skyrocket.
By the way, your stole $79 million in tax payments from Halliburton last year.
Are any of these companies perfect? Definitely not. Are some of them involved in willful neglect, criminal activity, and unethical behavior? Certainly. But to pretend that, by default, those unethical acts define those corporations is as ridiculous as pretending that unethical acts define men.
Rather that culling your information from youtube "documentaries" and prisonplanet "exposes" I'd encourage you to research these firms from unbiased sources like Wikipedia and financial information clearinghouses. Learn about their practices, good and bad. Learn about their products, good and bad. Learn about their missions and ethics, good and bad. Learn about their employees and executives, good and bad. But to pretend that you've "researched" a firm by looking at information from sources with built-in biases either reflects laziness or an willful neglect of the available information.
None of them, really. At least not in the way they intended. But there were plenty of us who didn't say them and didn't believe them.
They would say these things for the exact same reason you say what you say: they had made up their minds before considering the facts.
No. Particularly considering the word "former". Particularly considering that he will see absolutely no profit from Halliburton's actions.
Of course not! We had many other choices. My point is that once we were at war, it's perfectly natural that Halliburton would provide services.
That isn't demonstrating a link to Halliburton. At best that's demonstrating the stupidity of those who said it.
Does that mean Ford (or whatever brand of car he's selling) is behind his lies?????
Considering their platform, it's not shocking at all.
You know full well those little clips and one article weren't my only sources that I have ever viewed. I didn't steal shit from them. And they have no reason to be getting away with these practices...it's called being a crook. All the good from these companies could still have been performed without the crooked shit they do to squeeze more profits out.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
What others have you reviewed abook?
What if the Isrealis used other means to knock down said houses? Would people who make sledgehammers then wind up on the list?
were these average, everyday, run of the mill sledgehammers or was the company modifying these sledgehammers specifically for the IDF? were the sledgehammers being sold knowing they would be used for this purpose?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
These bulldozers were specifically tailored for Palestinian house destruction? Militaries all over the world use armoured bulldozers. Israel has a lot of tanks, too. Manufactured by British, American, and Russian firms. We'd better add them all to the list too. In fact, Isreal imports a lot of food, right? Food used to feed babykilling IDF stormtroopers, no doubt. All these countries who do this need to be on the list ...
- the caterpillars used to build schools are not violating the UN and no human rights abuses are being done
-i'm sure even w/o pfizer the scientist(s) could still create aids drugs. as you said "...w/ the men and women who created them' men and women, not a corporation. it still could've been done. still doesn't mean they should hold up cheaper generics from being manufactured.
-there is a huuuuuuuge difference between a good meal and serving our soldiers SPOILED meat knowingly, wouldn't you agree? so if you went into your favorite place to eat and the meat was spoiled, would you want to pay for it? what if they said 'but you came in yesterday and the meat was good!!' no...i'm guessing you'd refuse to pay for it let alone give them a huge tip on top of payment
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The Caterpillar Corporation claims that, "With regard to Israel, sales between Caterpillar and the U.S. government are openly conducted through the U.S. Foreign Military Sales Program." The U.S. government buys Caterpillar bulldozers and sends them to Israel as part of our country's annual foreign military assistance package. Such sales are governed by the U.S. Arms Export Control Act (Public Law 90-829), which limits the use of U.S. military aid to "internal security" and "legitimate self-defense" and prohibits its use against civilians.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I read articles all the time. So many have been posted here. If you have some articles stating the positives of any of these companies then post them or refer me to them. I use wikipedia as a source from time to time as well (people sometimes complain it's a bad source). Are you suggesting that I don't read things, just go along with what other lefties tell me to? I make up my own mind, just because we don't come to the same conclusion doesn't discredit my opinion of it.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree that they are both corrupt.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
coke privatizes water and even makes it illegal to collect rain water...not sure if pepsi does that, but it could tip them over the scale of being worse than pepsi (which does do bad stuff, too)
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so none were correct...to summarize:
cheney helped spread what you agree to be misinformation
b/c of the spreading of this misinfo the public gave enough support for war
b/c of this war former companies and friends are profiting in corrupt ways
so then why did he help spread the misinfo if it wasn't to go to war and profit?
and why did they make up their minds towards that particular solution (war)?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way