Money as Debt

Abookamongstthemany

This really needs to be watched by everyone. Wow!!

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

gue_barium

Ron Paul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8

Abookamongstthemany

gue_barium wrote:

Ron Paul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji_G0MqAqq8

Thanks, gue. He had a lot to say on the matter...very interesting.

Purple Hawk

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

This really needs to be watched by everyone. Wow!!

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

can you post the transcript? maybe even go out on a limb and give your take? but i'll settle for the former, while not expecting the latter...don't have the time to sit through u tubes. post the words my friend

gue_barium

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

This really needs to be watched by everyone. Wow!!

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

This is incredibly educational.

We need to bring ruination to the banks. Or, that is to say, ruin to the fractional banking reserve system.

Thanks Abook.

El_Kabong

some interesting quotes on the banking system from presidents and others, many of which, are in the youtube video

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years........It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller in address to Trilateral Commission 1991


"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning". - Henry Ford

"I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." - Thomas Jefferson

“If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency… the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” - Andrew Jackson

"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe. Corporations have been enthroned, and an era of corruption in high places will follow. The money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in the hands of a few, and the Republic is destroyed." - Abraham Lincoln

"Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce...and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate." - James Garfield

"A great industrial Nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men". (Just before he died, Wilson is reported to have stated to friends that he had been "deceived" and that "I have betrayed my Country".

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world, no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

- Woodrow Wilson who passed the Federal Reserve Act

"We shall have World Government, whether or not we like it. The only question is whether World Government will be achieved by conquest or consent." - Paul Warburg, Council on Foreign Relations and Architect of the Federal Reserve System: Feb 17, 1950 in an address to the U.S. Senate.

"Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility, all talk of sovereignty of Parliament and of democracy is idle and futile... Once a nation parts with control of its credit, it matters not who makes the nation's laws... Usury once in control will wreck any nation. " - William Lyon Mackenzie King

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin... Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of the pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again... Take this great power away from them and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in... But, if you want to be the slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit." -Sir Josiah Stamp (Governor of the Bank of England in the 1920s)

Abookamongstthemany

Purple Hawk wrote:

can you post the transcript? maybe even go out on a limb and give your take? but i'll settle for the former, while not expecting the latter...don't have the time to sit through u tubes. post the words my friend

Go out on a limb and give my take, eh? It's about the fractional banking system creating money out of thin air with no value except for a promise to repay. It really goes indepth about the consequences and inability to sustain such a system. The piece is pretty self explanatory and I posted it to share with those who may be interested. It's 45 min long though and there is no way I'm posting the whole transcript.

jeffbr

Most libertarian I know are appalled by our monetary system. Why we got away from the gold standard is beyond me. That idiot Dem. Woodrow Wilson - between his League of Nations and the Federal Reserve was an abortion of a president.

sponger

I was getting into that video until the narrator starting lecturing me on love. I don't need to be lectured on love. If he's got something important to say, then he should just say it instead of talking to me as though I must also not know what love is.

Abuskedti

Although I do agree that there is some danger in our current monetary system.. this video ignores a significant issue here...

It implies that the money is not backed by anything.. It skims over the fact that the car is used as collateral. Each time "new" money is "created" there is a commodity backing it... and there are people (the borroweers) exchanging their service (whatever they do for a living) to pay down the loans.

though there is not gold backing the money - there are individuals providing service to back the money - along with the collateral.

They shouldn't gloss that over.

Abuskedti

If Everyone does what I order immediately - we will make a really lot of money.

Everyone - right now - take all of your money out of the stock market - your entire portfolio - including 401K.. convert to cash or government bonds. Tell you family and friends to do the same. If we can spread the word to a few hundred thousand people - we will effectivly remove money from everyone elsees pocket and put it into ours.

because if we do this, the Market will crash.... It will take a few days to spread the word - and get the transactions completed...

Then in two weeks, on precicely March 15... Everyone put your money back into the Market....

Those who didn't remove their money will lose money due to the crash... then when we all get back in - we all earn it back as the market recovers..

Ok Now go do it!

jeffbr

Abuskedti wrote:

Those who didn't remove their money will lose money due to the crash... then when we all get back in - we all earn it back as the market recovers..

Ok Now go do it!

If someone didn't sell they didn't lose. They're still in it for the trip back up. You only lose (or gain) when you sell.

Also, individual investors are generally not first movers in the market. They usually follow along a day or two too late. The moment the institutional investors caught wind of any real movement, they'd dump, and the people following your plan would lose their shorts.

farfromglorified

Liberals arguing for an end of central banking and fiat currency??? Holy shit, somebody get the devil a coat.....

baraka

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

This really needs to be watched by everyone. Wow!!

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

I couldn't get your video to play. :( But I was able to watch the Ron Paul vid that gue posted. Very thought provoking.

farfromglorified wrote:

Liberals arguing for an end of central banking and fiat currency??? Holy shit, somebody get the devil a coat.....

Ha ha. I know it was only a matter of time before you turned up in this thread . I'll admit, I know very little about this. Did you watch the Ron Paul vid? What did you think and what would be your counter-argument for a federal reserve?

farfromglorified

baraka wrote:

Ha ha. I know it was only a matter of time before you turned up in this thread . I'll admit, I know very little about this. Did you watch the Ron Paul vid? What did you think and what would be your counter-argument for a federal reserve?

I watched the Ron Paul vid when que_barium posted it elsewhere. And I absolutely agree with him -- fiat currency blows, so to speak. It's great for wars and welfare, but it sucks for long-term economic stability and basic morality.

Arguing against a federal reserve is a complex business. I'd very much prefer a gold standard, if that's what you're asking. However, I'd prefer over that no standard -- meaning gold and silver currency. I don't believe the federal government should be in the business of holding a monopoly on money.

Now, that said, the American currency system is probably the most successful centrally planned currency system in history. Perhaps the British might take issue with that, and I wouldn't know enough about British monetary history to really debate them. Regardless, the American dollar acts as close to real money as any other currency in the world or in world history, at least on such a large scale. But there is no escaping the inflationary pressures and long-term disasters that come with fiat money, even when it's relatively well-run fiat money.

Abuskedti

jeffbr wrote:

If someone didn't sell they didn't lose. They're still in it for the trip back up. You only lose (or gain) when you sell.

Also, individual investors are generally not first movers in the market. They usually follow along a day or two too late. The moment the institutional investors caught wind of any real movement, they'd dump, and the people following your plan would lose their shorts.

thats why we have to do it quick...

Abuskedti

farfromglorified wrote:

I watched the Ron Paul vid when que_barium posted it elsewhere. And I absolutely agree with him -- fiat currency blows, so to speak. It's great for wars and welfare, but it sucks for long-term economic stability and basic morality.

Arguing against a federal reserve is a complex business. I'd very much prefer a gold standard, if that's what you're asking. However, I'd prefer over that no standard -- meaning gold and silver currency. I don't believe the federal government should be in the business of holding a monopoly on money.

Now, that said, the American currency system is probably the most successful centrally planned currency system in history. Perhaps the British might take issue with that, and I wouldn't know enough about British monetary history to really debate them. Regardless, the American dollar acts as close to real money as any other currency in the world or in world history, at least on such a large scale. But there is no escaping the inflationary pressures and long-term disasters that come with fiat money, even when it's relatively well-run fiat money.

A gold or silver standard unnecessarily complicates the issue. Gold an Silver have to real value either...

Money is not a commodity - merely an administrative record of trades. The central bank is merely the record keeper - which is very much needed with billions off people making deals.

farfromglorified

Abuskedti wrote:

A gold or silver standard unnecessarily complicates the issue. Gold an Silver have to real value either...

Hehe...really? Gold and silver are about the only two thing you can take to any inhabitable place on the planet, drop on the ground, and watch people slaughter each other over it. The only other thing I can think of that comes close to qualifying are American dollars.

Money is not a commodity - merely an administrative record of trades. The central bank is merely the record keeper - which is very much needed with billions off people making deals.

Money must be a commodity. If money weren't a commodity, your economic system would collapse because it wouldn't hold value as a universal exchange. The entire goal of paper money is to pretend as best as possible that paper currency is a commodity.

Abuskedti

farfromglorified wrote:

Hehe...really? Gold and silver are about the only two thing you can take to any inhabitable place on the planet, drop on the ground, and watch people slaughter each other over it. The only other thing I can think of that comes close to qualifying are American dollars.



Money must be a commodity. If money weren't a commodity, your economic system would collapse because it wouldn't hold value as a universal exchange. The entire goal of paper money is to pretend as best as possible that paper currency is a commodity.

Lets use oil then..

actually nothing you say here is true.

If you have to pretend it is a commodity - then clearly it is not. It is merely paper that represent the value of your goods or your service.

Gold and silver are the only things? what about diamonds.. or women... or ammo

farfromglorified

Abuskedti wrote:

Lets use oil then..

That's a terrible idea. First, oil doesn't have value to many. Secondly, oil has no long-term value, since its value only arises from its use. Third, you're consuming it, which means you're going to have less and less of it over time.

actually nothing you say here is true.

If you have to pretend it is a commodity - then clearly it is not.

Right, paper money is not a commodity, at least not in the sense you mean. But the only reason paper money works is because it's treated as such. In places like Venezuela now or Argentina 20 years ago or America 70 years ago, that perception collapsed and the paper money became the commodity that it truly is -- paper.

It is merely paper that represent the value of your goods or your service.

Absolutely correct. Your good and services are not a commodity, however, so they become difficult to exchange as such. Feel free to get rid of the paper and go back to barter.

Gold and silver are the only things? what about diamonds.. or women... or ammo

Diamonds are not valued by all cultures, and they'd be very difficult to turn into currency. That said, it would work in theory. Women don't work because they're not really limited, and they lose value over time, but they can and have served as a currency in a very primitive economy. Ammo suffers from the same problem as oil -- it's primary consumable and it doesn't really have much inherent value.

baraka

I dunno.....I am by no means an expert on this at all, and I'm uncomfortable with the fact that I do not understand some of the 'moves made by the feds. I've never been able to grasp the logic behind some of the decisions. Maybe someone can shed some light on this cryptic process.

farfromglorfied wrote:

Women don't work because they're not really limited, and they lose value over time.

Hey! I'm like a fine wine.................