Enjoy Capitalism

gue_barium

Purple Hawk wrote:

it's an obviously unfair, and pathetically simplistic assessment b/c 1. it plays on emotions through sensationalism, but more importantly 2. it implies that capitalism is a zero sum game when it's not...

the image implies that the child on the right is starving b/c of captialism of the west, which is laughable. he is starving b/c of the corruption of their own government, which hasn't adopted capitalism itself...so I would argue, the child is starving b/c of a lack of capitalism.

C'mon, man, you can't argue the simplistic message, then, argue such simplistic BS yourself.

Purple Hawk

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Some socialist countries are doing quite well.

Really? Last I saw, France...freaking FRANCE elected a right wing whack job...

I never thought i'd be envious of the French

Purple Hawk

gue_barium wrote:

C'mon, man, you can't argue the simplistic message, then, argue such simplistic BS yourself.

so you admit it's a simplistic message!

not denying my BS was equally simplistic though

gue_barium

Purple Hawk wrote:

so you admit it's a simplistic message!

not denying my BS was equally simplistic though

Cool.

Can you do better?

lucylespian

hsewif wrote:

I question your war angle, I will research it at a later time. I read a few things earlier tonight and they all pointed towards climate, population (specifically over-crowding) and a search for a better environment overall.

I will welcome your research, as I am gogin off stuff I read a while ago, and am certialy too laxy to look for references meself.

If is is natural conditions that is to blame, as you say, HTF does that have ANYTHING to do with capitalism ?????

Famine is just mother nature at work, doing a littel population control.

Peopple think MOther Nature is a knid woman in a nice dress with flowers in her hair and a tendency to cuddle littel furry critters, but really, she is a cold-faced bitch who cares not a whit for any individual.
Don't wait for her to care aboot teh littel kiddies !!

El_Kabong

hsewif wrote:

I don't understand how capitalism plays a part in all of this. Because McDonalds is a business that hopes to make a profit every day, they are bad? (Or coca-cola, etc.... any business, really).

when that company (such as coca-cola) privatizes the water in a foreign country making it illegal for the ppl who actually live there to even collect rain water....then yes, they ARE bad, in my opinion

it's HOW they make a profit i have concern w/

hsewif wrote:

I actually read the entire wikipedia entry on capitalism. I don't see why it's THAT bad. People should be accountable for their own actions in a free society... to blame the government for people not being responsible doesn't make sense.

what about when we prop up a corrupt government who opens up their natural resources to privitization? like, was it bolivia(?) where they let us privatize their water and their water bills shot up several 100%...now, is that the fault of the ppl who got the bill or the greedy ppl in power who did it?

gue_barium

lucylespian wrote:

I will welcome your research, as I am gogin off stuff I read a while ago, and am certialy too laxy to look for references meself.

If is is natural conditions that is to blame, as you say, HTF does that have ANYTHING to do with capitalism ?????

Famine is just mother nature at work, doing a littel population control.

Peopple think MOther Nature is a knid woman in a nice dress with flowers in her hair and a tendency to cuddle littel furry critters, but really, she is a cold-faced bitch who cares not a whit for any individual.
Don't wait for her to care aboot teh littel kiddies !!

I know how to be one with the Wilderness. Most people in this day and age have lost that. They've scorned wilderness as something to be feared, to stay away from instead of living in peace with.

Purple Hawk

gue_barium wrote:

Cool.

Can you do better?

Ask that question to the person who made this snappy "ad." Are there any capitalist governments in Africa? Would introducing capitalism to them help?

I can't do better until it's recognized that capitalism isn't a zero sum game...I'm not sure that's going to fly when people can't understand that tax cuts actually lead to more govt income....but why study economics when you can prey on emotion.

I would argue that debt forgiveness is one of the biggest causes of starvation in Africa. Bono and the Pope mean well, but it encourages corrupt leaders to become more corrupt.

gue_barium

lucylespian wrote:

I will welcome your research, as I am gogin off stuff I read a while ago, and am certialy too laxy to look for references meself.

If is is natural conditions that is to blame, as you say, HTF does that have ANYTHING to do with capitalism ?????

Famine is just mother nature at work, doing a littel population control.

Peopple think MOther Nature is a knid woman in a nice dress with flowers in her hair and a tendency to cuddle littel furry critters, but really, she is a cold-faced bitch who cares not a whit for any individual.
Don't wait for her to care aboot teh littel kiddies !!

Famine is a population relegated to starve by it's own species.

It's no wonder you find gluttony at the other end of the spectrum.

El_Kabong

lucylespian wrote:

The problem is that under socialist systems, there stops being wealth to distribute. Completely socialist/communist countries all wind up dirt poor. Heavily socialised countries wind up very unhappy.
Capitsalist sountries are not perfect, but there is more opportunity.

and what happens to countries w/ free market capitalism? oh...they wind up deeper in debt and even worse off than they were before :(

in fact, was it chile or brazil that went back to a socialist or something form of government and actually started pulling themselves out?

El_Kabong

lucylespian wrote:

Which ones ??

Sweden etc are "heavily socialised", not socialist. Without being an expert, depression and alcoholism rates are very high, according to folk I have met from there.

and the acloholism rate is low here??

Purple Hawk

El_Kabong wrote:

hsewif wrote:

I don't understand how capitalism plays a part in all of this. Because McDonalds is a business that hopes to make a profit every day, they are bad? (Or coca-cola, etc.... any business, really).[/quote[

when that company (such as coca-cola) privatizes the water in a foreign country making it illegal for the ppl who actually live there to even collect rain water....then yes, they ARE bad, in my opinion

it's HOW they make a profit i have concern w/




what about when we prop up a corrupt government who opens up their natural resources to privitization? like, was it bolivia(?) where they let us privatize their water and their water bills shot up several 100%...now, is that the fault of the ppl who got the bill or the greedy ppl in power who did it?

sorry EK...I'm being a prick...but you gotta stop it with the "ppl"

El_Kabong

Purple Hawk wrote:

it's an obviously unfair, and pathetically simplistic assessment b/c 1. it plays on emotions through sensationalism, but more importantly 2. it implies that capitalism is a zero sum game when it's not...

the image implies that the child on the right is starving b/c of captialism of the west, which is laughable. he is starving b/c of the corruption of their own government, which hasn't adopted capitalism itself...so I would argue, the child is starving b/c of a lack of capitalism.

is it our fault that over 1/2 of the 3rd world buys it's guns from us? is it our fault over 1/2 of these places use our weapons while doing those things? if i owned a gun store and sold a gun to a known rapist and actually knew he was buying the guns to rape more ppl....somethings tells me i'd have some blame in whoever he rapes using my guns

gue_barium

Purple Hawk wrote:

Ask that question to the person who made this snappy "ad." Are there any capitalist governments in Africa? Would introducing capitalism to them help?

I can't do better until it's recognized that capitalism isn't a zero sum game...I'm not sure that's going to fly when people can't understand that tax cuts actually lead to more govt income....but why study economics when you can prey on emotion.

I would argue that debt forgiveness is one of the biggest causes of starvation in Africa. Bono and the Pope mean well, but it encourages corrupt leaders to become more corrupt.

I think capitalism as principal is what is being misunderstood here.
Capitalistic opportunism created through violence and the suffering of others doesn't have anything to do with the how the checks and balances of a free market society are run. People attribute it to capitalistic principles, but warmongering for profit is something else altogether, to me.

lucylespian

gue_barium wrote:

Famine is a population relegated to starve by it's own species.

It's no wonder you find gluttony at the other end of the spectrum.

And as I pointed out, everything in the world will have a spectrum described by a bell curve.

All that original pic is , is the extremes of the curve.
If "normal" can be defined as within 2 or 3 standad deviations from the mean, both those kids clearly lie beyond that at either end, but sadly, you actually must have those extremes for the whole system to exist. It is inescapable !! To pretend otherwise is to try to re-define the Universe. (Fuck, I sound like ahnimus now)
It's also true that any individual's worst enemy is another member of it's own species. Nothing else competes quite as precisely for the resources you need and have access to.

El_Kabong

Purple Hawk wrote:

Ask that question to the person who made this snappy "ad." Are there any capitalist governments in Africa? Would introducing capitalism to them help?

I can't do better until it's recognized that capitalism isn't a zero sum game...I'm not sure that's going to fly when people can't understand that tax cuts actually lead to more govt income....but why study economics when you can prey on emotion.

I would argue that debt forgiveness is one of the biggest causes of starvation in Africa. Bono and the Pope mean well, but it encourages corrupt leaders to become more corrupt.

and our guns ensure they say in power and act....corrupt

hsewif

gue_barium wrote:

C'mon, man, you can't argue the simplistic message, then, argue such simplistic BS yourself.

you have argued liberty and that's a pretty broad term...

53 entries at dictionary.com...I think that's a record.

gue_barium

hsewif wrote:

you have argued liberty and that's a pretty broad term...

53 entries at dictionary.com...I think that's a record.

And there should be 100 billion definitions.

I argue that capitalism and liberty are not the same thing, yet it seems there is a belief in this world today that they are the same thing.

hsewif

El_Kabong wrote:

and our guns ensure they say in power and act....corrupt

you'll be thankful for our guns when Iran starts dropping nukes.

(we should stay on topic or start another thread)

Purple Hawk

gue_barium wrote:

I think capitalism as principal is what is being misunderstood here.
Capitalistic opportunism created through violence and the suffering of others doesn't have anything to do with the how the checks and balances of a free market society are run. People attribute it to capitalistic principles, but warmongering for profit is something else altogether, to me.

God I love warmongering...I honestly do...there is nothing better in life than a good ole' fashion war...especially when profit is to be had...

I mean...that really does sum it up...

I'll engage this discussion as far as I have, but when these are the underlying simplistic assumptions...again...we're on different planets and there's nothing to discuss.


as far as the plight of Africa, a good book is William Easterly's "The Elusive Quest for Growth." Really interesting, and if you don't trust me, it was required reading from a liberal professor...it really is worth the read.