Well, Zak's experiments focus on social trust. So I'm sure you are talking about something else, however, I think this research can give ideas of mechanism that cause other types of phenomena.
One example in the animal kingdom of charity is entirely egoism. Where leaders of packs donate their riches to less fortunate in order to display social dominance. There is a phenomenological experience that is quite different from the ego boost of winning a sporting match, but I would suggest that the phenomenology alone does not explain the mechanisms that cause it. It's quite possible that donating to charity is a selfish act, an act that makes us feel good in an altruistic fashion, but is not done solely for social trust, or the good of the tribe (and hence our own survival), but also for the unique experience inherent in giving. Why does that experience arise, seems to be the question you are asking. Would you be willing to accept an explanation that it is a selfish act, with either an evolutionary advantage, or perhaps the result of a self-destructive meme? Would you accept an explanation that is not as gratifying as the experience its self?
I was refering to social trust, too.
"The traditional view in economics is that individuals respond to incentives, but absent strong incentives to the contrary selfishness prevails. Moreover, this "greed is good" approach is deemed "rational" behavior. Nevertheless, in daily interactions and in numerous laboratory studies, a high degree of cooperative behavior prevails - even among strangers. A possible explanation for the substantial amount of "irrational" behavior observed in markets (and elsewhere) is that humans are a highly social species and to an extent value what other humans think of them. This behavior can be termed trustworthiness - cooperating when someone places trust in us."
To gain this trust, he's saying you want your selflessness to be visable or to be noticed. I was asking about the reasoning for acts of selflessness that go unmentioned by the person or unseen by the rest. Or what about selfless acts that will bring on undesired reactions from others? It doesn't feel to good to be insulted but I still put it out there. It could be simply an evolutionary advantage instilled in us to survive. I do want to put this out there in the hopes it catches on. But could you accept that it may point to interconnectedness? A common bond that we all share with one another? I'm happy and at peace with myself. I don't fear death. What explains why I want others to share in this feeling I'm awakening to?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
"The traditional view in economics is that individuals respond to incentives, but absent strong incentives to the contrary selfishness prevails. Moreover, this "greed is good" approach is deemed "rational" behavior. Nevertheless, in daily interactions and in numerous laboratory studies, a high degree of cooperative behavior prevails - even among strangers. A possible explanation for the substantial amount of "irrational" behavior observed in markets (and elsewhere) is that humans are a highly social species and to an extent value what other humans think of them. This behavior can be termed trustworthiness - cooperating when someone places trust in us."
To gain this trust, he's saying you want your selflessness to be visable or to be noticed. I was asking about the reasoning for acts of selflessness that go unmentioned by the person or unseen by the rest. Or what about selfless acts that will bring on undesired reactions from others? It doesn't feel to good to be insulted but I still put it out there. It could be simply an evolutionary advantage instilled in us to survive. I do want to put this out there in the hopes it catches on. But could you accept that it may point to interconnectedness? A common bond that we all share with one another? I'm happy and at peace with myself. I don't fear death. What explains why I want others to share in this feeling I'm awakening to?
Interconnectedness is certainly a plausible explanation. I personally have difficulty reconciling that with my understanding of human wills and causality though.
An important point about evolution that has risen in philosophical circles is that evolution is without direction, or so the theory goes. In this type of a system effects can arise in areas they were not intended to arise in. Some philosophers refer to it as a cross-wiring of the brain, a type of evolutionary synesthesia that occurs not by purpose, but almost by mistake. Its possible that this type of altruism you describe is a side-effect of some advantagious evolutionary trait, that by itself would cause the destruction of our species, but in tandem with its benneficient trait only causes slight declines in prosperity and survivability. Although arguably, if the act of true selflessness exists and creates a good feeling without any true detriment to survivability or prosperity, it could be viewed as evolutionarily advantagous and somewhat self-serving and thus not truly selfless either.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Interconnectedness is certainly a plausible explanation. I personally have difficulty reconciling that with my understanding of human wills and causality though.
An important point about evolution that has risen in philosophical circles is that evolution is without direction, or so the theory goes. In this type of a system effects can arise in areas they were not intended to arise in. Some philosophers refer to it as a cross-wiring of the brain, a type of evolutionary synesthesia that occurs not by purpose, but almost by mistake. Its possible that this type of altruism you describe is a side-effect of some advantagious evolutionary trait, that by itself would cause the destruction of our species, but in tandem with its benneficient trait only causes slight declines in prosperity and survivability. Although arguably, if the act of true selflessness exists and creates a good feeling without any true detriment to survivability or prosperity, it could be viewed as evolutionarily advantagous and somewhat self-serving and thus not truly selfless either.
But it could only be advantageous if there truly does exist an interconnectedness. Otherwise how would it not be selfless? Also, like I mentioned what about sacrifice, doing something that doesn't feel good in the hopes of helping others?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
But it could only be advantageous if there truly does exist an interconnectedness. Otherwise how would it not be selfless? Also, like I mentioned what about sacrifice, doing something that doesn't feel good in the hopes of helping others?
Well, as I was saying, it would ultimately not be selfless, but on the surface appear selfless.
Care to give me an example of a 'sacrifice'?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well, as I was saying, it would ultimately not be selfless, but on the surface appear selfless.
Care to give me an example of a 'sacrifice'?
It wouldn't then be selfless by definition but would require the effort of overcoming ego....which could be a form of sacrifice to some, a sense of freedom to others.
Also visionaries and those who believe in their vision for instance, from all periods in time throughout history, have been met with resistance, ridicule and the likes until it catches on or dies out....often they don't even see the fruits of their effort. Being ahead of the times and spreading your ideas will include subjecting yourself to this kind of public reaction and uphill battle. I view it as a sacrifice.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
“You're in the midst of a war: a battle between the limits of a crowd seeking the surrender of your dreams, and the power of your true vision to create and contribute. It is a fight between those who will tell you what you cannot do, and that part of you that knows / and has always known / that we are more than our environment; and that a dream, backed by an unrelenting will to attain it, is truly a reality with an imminent arrival.” ~Robbins
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
“You're in the midst of a war: a battle between the limits of a crowd seeking the surrender of your dreams, and the power of your true vision to create and contribute. It is a fight between those who will tell you what you cannot do, and that part of you that knows / and has always known / that we are more than our environment; and that a dream, backed by an unrelenting will to attain it, is truly a reality with an imminent arrival.” ~Robbins
Anthony Robbins?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Sounds like something he'd say. Maybe something he said at TED
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Also visionaries and those who believe in their vision for instance, from all periods in time throughout history, have been met with resistance, ridicule and the likes until it catches on or dies out....often they don't even see the fruits of their effort. Being ahead of the times and spreading your ideas will include subjecting yourself to this kind of public reaction and uphill battle. I view it as a sacrifice.
you mean like jesus?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
well i just cant think of anyone else who paid such a high price AND had such a big influence on world history.
The 9/11 Hijackers sacrificed themselves for a dream.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
yes, but they were misguided fools who took innocent lives with them.
I could argue that the fact that the masses believe in a lie called free-will costs millions upon billions of lives. I think I've already outlined why that is. This dream was perpetuated by none other than Christ herself.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I could argue that the fact that the masses believe in a lie called free-will costs millions upon billions of lives. I think I've already outlined why that is. This dream was perpetuated by none other than Christ herself.
i'm sorry but that's pure conjecture and hearsay. i never heard jesus say anything. all i've got is a book full of stories and some peeps saying/playing jesus said.
as for free will, i believe i have that power to make my own future. though naturally that future is based on actions and words from my past and present from which i can never be free.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i'm sorry but that's pure conjecture and hearsay. i never heard jesus say anything. all i've got is a book full of stories and some peeps saying/playing jesus said.
as for free will, i believe i have that power to make my own future. though naturally that future is based on actions and words from my past and present from which i can never be free.
The doctrine of Christianity fails without free-will. Would God be so loving and compassionate as to configure you for denial of the holy spirit, so that you may suffer in hell for eternity? Doesn't sound like the God Christ spoke of.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The doctrine of Christianity fails without free-will. Would God be so loving and compassionate as to configure you for denial of the holy spirit, so that you may suffer in hell for eternity? Doesn't sound like the God Christ spoke of.
again i say human contamination, unless you heard the words personally from the big man himself.
for me the doctrine of christianity fails because its premise is ludicrous.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
I was refering to social trust, too.
"The traditional view in economics is that individuals respond to incentives, but absent strong incentives to the contrary selfishness prevails. Moreover, this "greed is good" approach is deemed "rational" behavior. Nevertheless, in daily interactions and in numerous laboratory studies, a high degree of cooperative behavior prevails - even among strangers. A possible explanation for the substantial amount of "irrational" behavior observed in markets (and elsewhere) is that humans are a highly social species and to an extent value what other humans think of them. This behavior can be termed trustworthiness - cooperating when someone places trust in us."
To gain this trust, he's saying you want your selflessness to be visable or to be noticed. I was asking about the reasoning for acts of selflessness that go unmentioned by the person or unseen by the rest. Or what about selfless acts that will bring on undesired reactions from others? It doesn't feel to good to be insulted but I still put it out there. It could be simply an evolutionary advantage instilled in us to survive. I do want to put this out there in the hopes it catches on. But could you accept that it may point to interconnectedness? A common bond that we all share with one another? I'm happy and at peace with myself. I don't fear death. What explains why I want others to share in this feeling I'm awakening to?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Interconnectedness is certainly a plausible explanation. I personally have difficulty reconciling that with my understanding of human wills and causality though.
An important point about evolution that has risen in philosophical circles is that evolution is without direction, or so the theory goes. In this type of a system effects can arise in areas they were not intended to arise in. Some philosophers refer to it as a cross-wiring of the brain, a type of evolutionary synesthesia that occurs not by purpose, but almost by mistake. Its possible that this type of altruism you describe is a side-effect of some advantagious evolutionary trait, that by itself would cause the destruction of our species, but in tandem with its benneficient trait only causes slight declines in prosperity and survivability. Although arguably, if the act of true selflessness exists and creates a good feeling without any true detriment to survivability or prosperity, it could be viewed as evolutionarily advantagous and somewhat self-serving and thus not truly selfless either.
But it could only be advantageous if there truly does exist an interconnectedness. Otherwise how would it not be selfless? Also, like I mentioned what about sacrifice, doing something that doesn't feel good in the hopes of helping others?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Well, as I was saying, it would ultimately not be selfless, but on the surface appear selfless.
Care to give me an example of a 'sacrifice'?
It wouldn't then be selfless by definition but would require the effort of overcoming ego....which could be a form of sacrifice to some, a sense of freedom to others.
Also visionaries and those who believe in their vision for instance, from all periods in time throughout history, have been met with resistance, ridicule and the likes until it catches on or dies out....often they don't even see the fruits of their effort. Being ahead of the times and spreading your ideas will include subjecting yourself to this kind of public reaction and uphill battle. I view it as a sacrifice.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Anthony Robbins?
Yep, I'm lazy tonight.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Sounds like something he'd say. Maybe something he said at TED
you mean like jesus?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
They sure did give him a rough time.
But anyone who fits the description.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
well i just cant think of anyone else who paid such a high price AND had such a big influence on world history.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The 9/11 Hijackers sacrificed themselves for a dream.
Me either. Wish people would remember his message more often.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yes, but they were misguided fools who took innocent lives with them.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
that's debatable.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I could argue that the fact that the masses believe in a lie called free-will costs millions upon billions of lives. I think I've already outlined why that is. This dream was perpetuated by none other than Christ herself.
i'm sorry but that's pure conjecture and hearsay. i never heard jesus say anything. all i've got is a book full of stories and some peeps saying/playing jesus said.
as for free will, i believe i have that power to make my own future. though naturally that future is based on actions and words from my past and present from which i can never be free.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The doctrine of Christianity fails without free-will. Would God be so loving and compassionate as to configure you for denial of the holy spirit, so that you may suffer in hell for eternity? Doesn't sound like the God Christ spoke of.
again i say human contamination, unless you heard the words personally from the big man himself.
for me the doctrine of christianity fails because its premise is ludicrous.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say