well i guess the easiest way to comply to your demands are:
this
is all wrong. what i posted wasn't saying any of that.
Yes, it was:
The question, "Are we ready for a colorblind society?" assumes that colorblindness is an ideal we should strive for in the 21st century. I would argue that colorblindness generally perpetuates rather than challenges racism. Certainly there has been a long history of state-sanctioned white supremacy in this country. At one time, colorblindness may have been a legitimate strategy to counteract the formidable power of pseudo-scientific thinking that asserted the inherent biological inferiority of people of color. Today, however, advocates of colorblindness promote an understanding of racial inequality as individual "prejudice" devoid of historical context, thus preventing dialogue about more systemic kinds of oppression. The fact that colorblindness is so entrenched in court precedents, legislation, and policy making testifies to our inability to achieve racial equality while stuck in a pre-civil rights understanding of race and racism.
Perhaps opponents of racial equality embrace colorblindness because eliminating race consciousness conveniently eliminates accountability for white supremacy. Witness the latest Ward Connerly incarnation in California: the so-called "Racial Privacy Initiative" that would eliminate collection of statistics that use racial categories. This "colorblind" initiative would relieve the state of any accountability for racial disadvantage.
Are we ready for a colorblind society? Only if we are ready to deny responsibility for racism.
I replied to this with a big picture outlook on actually moving past racism by not continuing it through means of holding people accountable for oppression they did not commit based purely on the fact that they are white. That is continuing this cycle and causing it to carry on in to today's world and creating more of the problems we've seen in the past. The more we focus on race the more we will see prejudices on both sides regarding it. We won't be able to move past it until we ALL get passed it. You can do this easily enough by holding racist people accountable for racism and just that.
If I'm so wrong then I'm sure you won't have any problems articulating in your own words why you think so.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Damn straight, "yay, he's black." Look, issues are still the main focus for a majority of voters (what issues and under what scrutiny depends on the individual voter), but ethnicity/gender/etc. does add that extra little bit - like that extra little sound or bit of distortion in the background of your favorite song. It doesn't change the time signature, the notes, the lyrics, or anything concretely tangible; but the song wouldn't be the same without it.
People can pretend that white/black/brown/yellow/whatever doesn't mean shit, that we're all enlightened enough to simply acknowledge the "best of the best"; but they're doing just that - pretending. Other people can recognize that there are problems, and complain that we should be beyond all of this - and at least I'm beyond it all - but still forget (or relish, as the case may be) that they left all the ignorant masses behind. History, however, doesn't pretend, and it doesn't acknowledge anything other than the cold, text-book facts: The United States of America never puts a non-white male in contention for President. Until now. That's progress, whether people admit it or not, or whether they think it's enough or not doesn't change that. It is progress.
So, again, "yay, he's black." Not for him. Not for the black community. Not for white guilt. Not for the Democratic Party. For the U.S.
"Yay, America."
Some people need to open their eyes and realize that we're already living in a society where everyone is of mixed race. The mix is going to keep mixing as time goes by. It's time to drop the labels as they are meaningless.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Yet you imply that others aren't staying true to themselves, somehow.
Where is that implication? Me saying what I do is in no way doing that. That's why I asked what you based your decisions on. If your not basing them on your own beliefs and values but rather outside factors then I don't have to make any implication.
My post was in response to the question about whether my vote revolves around a person with a "D" next to his or her name. "Is it fair to say," you asked. A shorter version of my response is "No, it's not fair to say." The indie street cred remark was in response to the implied corporate sell-out status of anyone who would vote for a major party candidate that isn't Dennis Kucinich.
The bolded parts above seem a little contradictory, by the way.
You seem to want to put your own personal interpretation with whatever I'm saying. Don't. My remarks were based solely on what who I believe represents
my ideals and to ME, Dennis Kucinich is one of the only Dems worth voting for.That's certainly an opinion I'm allowed to have and is completely free of whatever you may think about it. I don't think for one minute that everyone shares the same values as I do...thus my questions. If you feel that my ideals are so righteous then feel free to share in them...no one is stopping you. If you don't then that's fine, too but don't put words in my mouth for simply asking you a question....especially when many here do vote based on electability and whether or not there's a D beside the name.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Andy Cripe/Gazette-Times
Jeremy and Tara Stand of the Bronx, with 1-year-old son Osiris, pose with Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver at the Meet a Black Guy booth near the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market.
‘Black Guy’ booth livens up Corvallis Saturday market
By KYLE ODEGARD
Corvallis Gazette-Times
The booths at the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market have a wild mix of fresh produce, tasty food, plants and flowers.
But this week, a table just outside the bazaar offered something more bizarre — “Meet a Black Guy.”
Those who participated in the free service could chat with 21-year-old Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver, and get pictures taken with him.
“It’s a statement about diversity in Corvallis. It’s not a very diverse place,” said Oliver, a lifelong Oregonian. He hoped to promote understanding, break stereotypes and perhaps even provide a comedic moment for hundreds of people strolling along the riverfront.
The booth drew a mixed reaction, however.
“I think this is hysterical. The entire market’s great,” said Jeremy Stand of the Bronx, who was in Corvallis to visit family. Oregon, in general, is a pretty Caucasian place, he said.
“It’s a clever way of engaging people with dialogue about the need for more diversity in the community. It kind of caught me by surprise,” said Annette Mills, who moved to Corvallis more than a year ago.
Sherry Littlefield of Corvallis said the booth was unnecessary. She and friend Ron Naasko said they have black friends, and would be voting for Barack Obama for president.
“I guess I don’t care what color people are. Either you’re a jerk or you’re not,” Littlefield said.
“I think it’s degrading. It’s a little bit low class,” Naasko said. He added that he wouldn’t set up a booth saying for people to meet someone in a wheelchair, like him.
The idea for “Meet a Black Guy” came from Sean Brown, a Linn-Benton Community College student and a co-worker of Oliver’s at the Darkside Cinema.
About 50 people signed up to receive e-mail from Oliver and Brown, including their free photos, and several others stopped by the booth, some asking pointed questions of the duo.
Brown didn’t know if he and Oliver would be back next week. But if they are, a sign also will say, “Meet a Jewish white guy,” Brown said.
“There’s a lot of churches here. Not a lot of temples.”
Andy Cripe/Gazette-Times
Jeremy and Tara Stand of the Bronx, with 1-year-old son Osiris, pose with Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver at the Meet a Black Guy booth near the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market.
‘Black Guy’ booth livens up Corvallis Saturday market
By KYLE ODEGARD
Corvallis Gazette-Times
The booths at the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market have a wild mix of fresh produce, tasty food, plants and flowers.
But this week, a table just outside the bazaar offered something more bizarre — “Meet a Black Guy.”
Those who participated in the free service could chat with 21-year-old Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver, and get pictures taken with him.
“It’s a statement about diversity in Corvallis. It’s not a very diverse place,” said Oliver, a lifelong Oregonian. He hoped to promote understanding, break stereotypes and perhaps even provide a comedic moment for hundreds of people strolling along the riverfront.
The booth drew a mixed reaction, however.
“I think this is hysterical. The entire market’s great,” said Jeremy Stand of the Bronx, who was in Corvallis to visit family. Oregon, in general, is a pretty Caucasian place, he said.
“It’s a clever way of engaging people with dialogue about the need for more diversity in the community. It kind of caught me by surprise,” said Annette Mills, who moved to Corvallis more than a year ago.
Sherry Littlefield of Corvallis said the booth was unnecessary. She and friend Ron Naasko said they have black friends, and would be voting for Barack Obama for president.
“I guess I don’t care what color people are. Either you’re a jerk or you’re not,” Littlefield said.
“I think it’s degrading. It’s a little bit low class,” Naasko said. He added that he wouldn’t set up a booth saying for people to meet someone in a wheelchair, like him.
The idea for “Meet a Black Guy” came from Sean Brown, a Linn-Benton Community College student and a co-worker of Oliver’s at the Darkside Cinema.
About 50 people signed up to receive e-mail from Oliver and Brown, including their free photos, and several others stopped by the booth, some asking pointed questions of the duo.
Brown didn’t know if he and Oliver would be back next week. But if they are, a sign also will say, “Meet a Jewish white guy,” Brown said.
“There’s a lot of churches here. Not a lot of temples.”
Hey, I guess that's the beauty of democracy. People can vote on whatever basis they wish. Personally, "YAY, HE'S (HALF) BLACK!" is not a satisfactory basis (and is, indeed, largely irrelevent), but whatever works for the individual.
Where is that implication? Me saying what I do is in no way doing that. That's why I asked what you based your decisions on. If your not basing them on your own beliefs and values but rather outside factors then I don't have to make any implication.
You seem to want to put your own personal interpretation with whatever I'm saying. Don't. My remarks were based solely on what who I believe represents my ideals and to ME, Dennis Kucinich is one of the only Dems worth voting for.That's certainly an opinion I'm allowed to have and is completely free of whatever you may think about it. I don't think for one minute that everyone shares the same values as I do...thus my questions. If you feel that my ideals are so righteous then feel free to share in them...no one is stopping you. If you don't then that's fine, too but don't put words in my mouth for simply asking you a question....especially when many here do vote based on electability and whether or not there's a D beside the name.
I didn't take your question as honest; particularly because we've had these back and forths before. It read a little too much like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
You have, however, more than implied that Obama is simply a corporate candidate, and that the only reason anyone is voting for him is because they've been duped by a fawning media desperate to elect a black president. Some have been "duped," sure. Some haven't, definitely.
I haven't.
And no one is stopping you from expressing your opinions; nor is anyone else prevented from expressing their thoughts on them.
I replied to this with a big picture outlook on actually moving past racism by not continuing it through means of holding people accountable for oppression they did not commit based purely on the fact that they are white. That is continuing this cycle and causing it to carry on in to today's world and creating more of the problems we've seen in the past. The more we focus on race the more we will see prejudices on both sides regarding it. We won't be able to move past it until we ALL get passed it. You can do this easily enough by holding racist people accountable for racism and just that.
If I'm so wrong then I'm sure you won't have any problems articulating in your own words why you think so.
you seem to take this personally. no one is holding you accountable for america's racist past. that's not what they're talking about. it's not about accountability. it's more about the importance of acknowledging the very recent racist past and not washing over the fact that there are people of different ethnicities here, we have a very recent racist past, and we haven't as a society completely dealt with that (obviously with people openly admitting this in states such as wv). becoming 'colorblind' or ignoring these issues will make it so these issues will never be resolved. having a dialogue on race only helps. you can't stop the cycle by saying you're over it.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
But self-proclaimed intelligence over others who happen to have a different perceptive....it just doesn't get any better!!
funny, i wasn't the one who brought up the tower remark. saying you're missing the points is not saying that you can't have different points or that those points are somehow less intelligent. you can absolutely have a different opinion but your response did indicate that you missed the points of what i posted.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
"Meet a black guy?" HA!!!
And that hilarious quote ... "We have black friends, and will be voting for Obama!" Fuck me ...
Stuff White People Like
#14 Having Black Friends
January 21, 2008 by clander
From guest contributor Kristen Warner
#14 Having Black Friends
January 21, 2008 by clander
From guest contributor Kristen Warner
Since we are on the verge of electing a black president, it seems important to explain why white people want black friends. Every white person wants a black friend like Barack: good-looking, well-spoken, and non-violent. Obviously, whites want black friends so as not to appear racist (see earlier Obama post). However, if we dig deeper what we notice about white people is not if they have black friends but in fact, how many black friends they have. White people like numbers. They like to count things like stars in the sky and the death toll at Mt. Everest and the number of times they’ve seen Tori Amos and/or Phish in concert. Counting the number of black friends is then clearly a divine imperative. The number of black friends white people possess also illustrates their comfort with black culture. Here’s a handy guide to the number system:
1—The white novice. This black friend is the gateway to helping white people understand gang signs and Vietnamese beauty supply stores. This black friend is probably the only black friend for many white people and when they all hang out (because white people hang out) they bring their “mutual” black friend with them.
2—The white black club-goer. Two black friends serve as bodyguards when white people go to black clubs to see how exactly one “pops, drops and locks” it.
3 -4—The white BET-er. See Justin Timberlake/ Robin Thicke/ Jon B for more information. For old school reference, see Michael McDonald.
you seem to take this personally. no one is holding you accountable for america's racist past. that's not what they're talking about. it's not about accountability. it's more about the importance of acknowledging the very recent racist past and not washing over the fact that there are people of different ethnicities here, we have a very recent racist past, and we haven't as a society completely dealt with that (obviously with people openly admitting this in states such as wv). becoming 'colorblind' or ignoring these issues will make it so these issues will never be resolved. having a dialogue on race only helps. you can't stop the cycle by saying you're over it.
I'm not taking this personally. I'm speaking in terms of race not myself. Also I don't pretend the past didn't happen but the point is that this is just that...the PAST and not today, so long as we don't continue making the same mistakes of focusing on the colors of each others skin. Of course, there are still some racist people and those people should be confronted and challenged about those beliefs...I never suggested otherwise. But you will be doing the exact same thing they are to use race in any form of significance...instead of focusing on the problem which is prejudices and they come in many forms.
I think you CAN stop the cycle of racism by actually being over it and letting the wounds of the past finally heal over. Today is now...the history is something we have to evolve past not relive and rehash.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Andy Cripe/Gazette-Times
Jeremy and Tara Stand of the Bronx, with 1-year-old son Osiris, pose with Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver at the Meet a Black Guy booth near the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market.
‘Black Guy’ booth livens up Corvallis Saturday market
By KYLE ODEGARD
Corvallis Gazette-Times
The booths at the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market have a wild mix of fresh produce, tasty food, plants and flowers.
corvallis is a college town so this doesn't surprise me. it seems like they thought this would be a funny way to talk about this stuff. oregon is one of the whitest states in the country, which only makes it more interesting when you look at who is voting for whom.
oregon farmers markets are amazing.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I think you CAN stop the cycle of racism by actually being over it and letting the wounds of the past finally heal over. Today is now...the history is something we have to evolve past not relive and rehash.
In fact, I don't think there IS another way to stop the cycle.
I'm not taking this personally. I'm speaking in terms of race not myself. Also I don't pretend the past didn't happen but the point is that this is just that...the PAST and not today, so long as we don't continue making the same mistakes of focusing on the colors of each others skin. Of course, there are still some racist people and those people should be confronted and challenged about those beliefs...I never suggested otherwise. But you will be doing the exact same thing they are to use race in any form of significance...instead of focusing on the problem which is prejudices and they come in many forms.
I think you CAN stop the cycle of racism by actually being over it and letting the wounds of the past finally heal over. Today is now...the history is something we have to evolve past not relive and rehash.
okay then. but talking about it doesn't have to be reliving it and rehashing it. just like what we're doing now. also, the point is that racism isn't just in the past. it is today, and focusing on it isn't necessarily racism.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
funny, i wasn't the one who brought up the tower remark. saying you're missing the points is not saying that you can't have different points or that those points are somehow less intelligent. you can absolutely have a different opinion but your response did indicate that you missed the points of what i posted.
That's right you didn't bring up the tower remark...and I would prefer that we not be petty to further this discussion so I see what you are saying. And I completely feel you're not getting my points, either which as I tried to say, indicates our very differing perspectives on this issue. How we look at this has a lot to do with how we interpret what each other is saying.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
okay then. but talking about it doesn't have to be reliving it and rehashing it. just like what we're doing now. also, the point is that racism isn't just in the past. it is today, and focusing on it isn't necessarily racism.
I'm only addressing the points of focusing on color instead of focusing more directly on people who are racist. To me we are all the same and should be colorblind towards one another when it comes to how we judge and treat one another. We (us who can look past a person's color and view each other for who they are) should be focusing on the problems of racism still today...not continuing it by making race relevant.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know! I can't see how you move past a problem by continuing it.
If the color of one's skin has no bearing on how that person should be treated....then live that very way.
I also think there's a difference between forgetting history and wallowing in it ... One must not forget, but one must also know when to move on. Not an easy task, granted.
I'm only addressing the points of focusing on color instead of focusing more directly on people who are racist. To me we are all the same and should be colorblind towards one another when it comes to how we judge and treat one another. We (us who can look past a person's color and view each other for who they are) should be focusing on the problems of racism still today...not continuing it by making race relevant.
i think i see what you're saying and i think i'm talking more about colorblind on a societal level, not a personal (or interpersonal) one. we have to make race relevant in order to focus on and deal with the problems of racism. for example, the acknowledgment that our recent history of racism has contributed to inequalities in things like education and financial situations. at the same time we could definitely do as you say and be 'colorblind' towards each other in the way of treating each other well. but we can't be colorblind as a society and think that we are all equal in regards to things like education and economic situations because if people think that, we will never be able to become equal.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I didn't take your question as honest; particularly because we've had these back and forths before. It read a little too much like "have you stopped beating your wife?"
You have, however, more than implied that Obama is simply a corporate candidate, and that the only reason anyone is voting for him is because they've been duped by a fawning media desperate to elect a black president. Some have been "duped," sure. Some haven't, definitely.
I haven't.
And no one is stopping you from expressing your opinions; nor is anyone else prevented from expressing their thoughts on them.
It was an honest question because my perspective of Obama is so different than yours. So I'm asking these questions to see how we come to these extremely different conclusions. I wasn't trying to insult you in any way. Some people do think electability is a very valid reason to vote for someone and I do not. I was only trying to make the distinction in your case because you brought up the varying degrees me and you would have to settle. Actually I think we tend to agree on most issues, so my question was an honest one. And even if I think your reasonings for support weren't the best in the end after we came to a clear understanding of what they were, then so be it....obviously you don't think too highly of mine to bring up things like 'street cred' or 'righteousness' as if my decisions weren't based on my principles but for some kind of 'appearance's sake'. If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i think i see what you're saying and i think i'm talking more about colorblind on a societal level, not a personal (or interpersonal) one. we have to make race relevant in order to focus on and deal with the problems of racism. for example, the acknowledgment that our recent history of racism has contributed to inequalities in things like education and financial situations. at the same time we could definitely do as you say and be 'colorblind' towards each other in the way of treating each other well. but we can't be colorblind as a society and think that we are all equal in regards to things like education and economic situations because if people think that, we will never be able to become equal.
But we...me and you, everyone...we make up society. And how we view race creates how our society deals with it.
We can not correct problems of the past by reliving the same thing today...judging and treating one another differently based on race. We can always focus on problems of our society today when racism occurs and work together on fixing those problems by promoting equality....part of that, though is actually living our lives treating everyone equal.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
But we...me and you, everyone...we make up society. And how we view race creates how our society deals with it.
We can not correct problems of the past by reliving the same thing today...judging and treating one another differently based on race. We can always focus on problems of our society today when racism occurs and work together on fixing those problems by promoting equality....part of that, though is actually living our lives treating everyone equal.
i believe i already said that what i'm saying is not about reliving it. it's not about treating each other differently. in order to obtain equality we have to realize the effects of our racist history and how that has impacted our society. or else we will continue to repeat history. that is all.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I also think there's a difference between forgetting history and wallowing in it ... One must not forget, but one must also know when to move on. Not an easy task, granted.
Right. I don't want to deny the past. I want to learn from it. And in learning from it, we have to see how treating others as 'not equal' based on race alone has not worked out, is illogical and is completely wrong.
The white people of the past are not the white people of today...and even then everyone wasn't a racist BUT it was widely accepted. Today however, it is not, it is looked down on for personal matters and against the law for matters of opportunity and discrimination etc....so it is much easier for us to pin point the blame/problem of racism on people who are actively being racist now. We are now able to move past blanket assessments based on color and view individuals who perpetuate this cycle as the ones we need to place focus on.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i believe i already said that what i'm saying is not about reliving it. it's not about treating each other differently. in order to obtain equality we have to realize the effects of our racist history and how that has impacted our society. or else we will continue to repeat history. that is all.
Then how are you proposing we go about this so we can be clear?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i'm not sure what you are asking. are you looking for my step by step plan to rid america of racism?
No, of course not. More of a general direction. My position is that we as a society and we as individuals shouldn't treat/view one another differently based on race. You posted a piece saying we shouldn't be colorblind like that. So I was just wondering in which ways you think we should not be colorblind towards one another as far as present actions go?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It was an honest question because my perspective of Obama is so different than yours. So I'm asking these questions to see how we come to these extremely different conclusions. I wasn't trying to insult you in any way. Some people do think electability is a very valid reason to vote for someone and I do not. I was only trying to make the distinction in your case because you brought up the varying degrees me and you would have to settle. Actually I think we tend to agree on most issues, so my question was an honest one. And even if I think your reasonings for support weren't the best in the end after we came to a clear understanding of what they were, then so be it....obviously you don't think too highly of mine to bring up things like 'street cred' or 'righteousness' as if my decisions weren't based on my principles but for some kind of 'appearance's sake'. If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.
The "street cred" and "righteousness" remark was meant to be snarky. It's not that I think your decisions aren't based on principles, but rather a response to the impression I get when you write phrases like "D next to the name" as opposed to "Democrat" or "Obama supporters are like this" - which immediately lead to me saying "Nader supporters are like that."
The funny thing is, I was having a conversation with a Democratic activist here at work last week where I was more in "your" position defending my past Nader votes. Weird how things work. I did point out that if it wasn't for Nader ruining Gore's run (debatable, I know), then the Democrats would be dealing with a Lieberman nomination right now. He didn't think me too funny, though.
The white people of the past are not the white people of today....
True, but the sad truth is that the white people of today have inherited that legacy and are left to deal with the consequences of history. The proper way to deal with those consequences can't simply be to declare them "water under the bridge". They must be addressed head on. Ignoring them or wishing them away doesn't cut it.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Comments
Yes, it was:
I replied to this with a big picture outlook on actually moving past racism by not continuing it through means of holding people accountable for oppression they did not commit based purely on the fact that they are white. That is continuing this cycle and causing it to carry on in to today's world and creating more of the problems we've seen in the past. The more we focus on race the more we will see prejudices on both sides regarding it. We won't be able to move past it until we ALL get passed it. You can do this easily enough by holding racist people accountable for racism and just that.
If I'm so wrong then I'm sure you won't have any problems articulating in your own words why you think so.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Some people need to open their eyes and realize that we're already living in a society where everyone is of mixed race. The mix is going to keep mixing as time goes by. It's time to drop the labels as they are meaningless.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Where is that implication? Me saying what I do is in no way doing that. That's why I asked what you based your decisions on. If your not basing them on your own beliefs and values but rather outside factors then I don't have to make any implication.
You seem to want to put your own personal interpretation with whatever I'm saying. Don't. My remarks were based solely on what who I believe represents
my ideals and to ME, Dennis Kucinich is one of the only Dems worth voting for.That's certainly an opinion I'm allowed to have and is completely free of whatever you may think about it. I don't think for one minute that everyone shares the same values as I do...thus my questions. If you feel that my ideals are so righteous then feel free to share in them...no one is stopping you. If you don't then that's fine, too but don't put words in my mouth for simply asking you a question....especially when many here do vote based on electability and whether or not there's a D beside the name.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Andy Cripe/Gazette-Times
Jeremy and Tara Stand of the Bronx, with 1-year-old son Osiris, pose with Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver at the Meet a Black Guy booth near the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market.
‘Black Guy’ booth livens up Corvallis Saturday market
By KYLE ODEGARD
Corvallis Gazette-Times
The booths at the Saturday Corvallis Farmers’ Market have a wild mix of fresh produce, tasty food, plants and flowers.
But this week, a table just outside the bazaar offered something more bizarre — “Meet a Black Guy.”
Those who participated in the free service could chat with 21-year-old Corvallis resident Jeff Oliver, and get pictures taken with him.
“It’s a statement about diversity in Corvallis. It’s not a very diverse place,” said Oliver, a lifelong Oregonian. He hoped to promote understanding, break stereotypes and perhaps even provide a comedic moment for hundreds of people strolling along the riverfront.
The booth drew a mixed reaction, however.
“I think this is hysterical. The entire market’s great,” said Jeremy Stand of the Bronx, who was in Corvallis to visit family. Oregon, in general, is a pretty Caucasian place, he said.
“It’s a clever way of engaging people with dialogue about the need for more diversity in the community. It kind of caught me by surprise,” said Annette Mills, who moved to Corvallis more than a year ago.
Sherry Littlefield of Corvallis said the booth was unnecessary. She and friend Ron Naasko said they have black friends, and would be voting for Barack Obama for president.
“I guess I don’t care what color people are. Either you’re a jerk or you’re not,” Littlefield said.
“I think it’s degrading. It’s a little bit low class,” Naasko said. He added that he wouldn’t set up a booth saying for people to meet someone in a wheelchair, like him.
The idea for “Meet a Black Guy” came from Sean Brown, a Linn-Benton Community College student and a co-worker of Oliver’s at the Darkside Cinema.
About 50 people signed up to receive e-mail from Oliver and Brown, including their free photos, and several others stopped by the booth, some asking pointed questions of the duo.
Brown didn’t know if he and Oliver would be back next week. But if they are, a sign also will say, “Meet a Jewish white guy,” Brown said.
“There’s a lot of churches here. Not a lot of temples.”
Kyle Odegard can be contacted at kyle.odegard@lee.net or 758-9523.
"Meet a black guy?" HA!!!
And that hilarious quote ... "We have black friends, and will be voting for Obama!" Fuck me ...
But self-proclaimed intelligence over others who happen to have a different perceptive....it just doesn't get any better!!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
In think she nailed it, but maybe that's just me.
Hey, I guess that's the beauty of democracy. People can vote on whatever basis they wish. Personally, "YAY, HE'S (HALF) BLACK!" is not a satisfactory basis (and is, indeed, largely irrelevent), but whatever works for the individual.
You have, however, more than implied that Obama is simply a corporate candidate, and that the only reason anyone is voting for him is because they've been duped by a fawning media desperate to elect a black president. Some have been "duped," sure. Some haven't, definitely.
I haven't.
And no one is stopping you from expressing your opinions; nor is anyone else prevented from expressing their thoughts on them.
you seem to take this personally. no one is holding you accountable for america's racist past. that's not what they're talking about. it's not about accountability. it's more about the importance of acknowledging the very recent racist past and not washing over the fact that there are people of different ethnicities here, we have a very recent racist past, and we haven't as a society completely dealt with that (obviously with people openly admitting this in states such as wv). becoming 'colorblind' or ignoring these issues will make it so these issues will never be resolved. having a dialogue on race only helps. you can't stop the cycle by saying you're over it.
cross the river to the eastside
funny, i wasn't the one who brought up the tower remark. saying you're missing the points is not saying that you can't have different points or that those points are somehow less intelligent. you can absolutely have a different opinion but your response did indicate that you missed the points of what i posted.
cross the river to the eastside
Stuff White People Like
#14 Having Black Friends
January 21, 2008 by clander
From guest contributor Kristen Warner
#14 Having Black Friends
January 21, 2008 by clander
From guest contributor Kristen Warner
Since we are on the verge of electing a black president, it seems important to explain why white people want black friends. Every white person wants a black friend like Barack: good-looking, well-spoken, and non-violent. Obviously, whites want black friends so as not to appear racist (see earlier Obama post). However, if we dig deeper what we notice about white people is not if they have black friends but in fact, how many black friends they have. White people like numbers. They like to count things like stars in the sky and the death toll at Mt. Everest and the number of times they’ve seen Tori Amos and/or Phish in concert. Counting the number of black friends is then clearly a divine imperative. The number of black friends white people possess also illustrates their comfort with black culture. Here’s a handy guide to the number system:
1—The white novice. This black friend is the gateway to helping white people understand gang signs and Vietnamese beauty supply stores. This black friend is probably the only black friend for many white people and when they all hang out (because white people hang out) they bring their “mutual” black friend with them.
2—The white black club-goer. Two black friends serve as bodyguards when white people go to black clubs to see how exactly one “pops, drops and locks” it.
3 -4—The white BET-er. See Justin Timberlake/ Robin Thicke/ Jon B for more information. For old school reference, see Michael McDonald.
5 and up—Impossible.
I'm not taking this personally. I'm speaking in terms of race not myself. Also I don't pretend the past didn't happen but the point is that this is just that...the PAST and not today, so long as we don't continue making the same mistakes of focusing on the colors of each others skin. Of course, there are still some racist people and those people should be confronted and challenged about those beliefs...I never suggested otherwise. But you will be doing the exact same thing they are to use race in any form of significance...instead of focusing on the problem which is prejudices and they come in many forms.
I think you CAN stop the cycle of racism by actually being over it and letting the wounds of the past finally heal over. Today is now...the history is something we have to evolve past not relive and rehash.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
corvallis is a college town so this doesn't surprise me. it seems like they thought this would be a funny way to talk about this stuff. oregon is one of the whitest states in the country, which only makes it more interesting when you look at who is voting for whom.
oregon farmers markets are amazing.
cross the river to the eastside
In fact, I don't think there IS another way to stop the cycle.
okay then. but talking about it doesn't have to be reliving it and rehashing it. just like what we're doing now. also, the point is that racism isn't just in the past. it is today, and focusing on it isn't necessarily racism.
cross the river to the eastside
That's right you didn't bring up the tower remark...and I would prefer that we not be petty to further this discussion so I see what you are saying. And I completely feel you're not getting my points, either which as I tried to say, indicates our very differing perspectives on this issue. How we look at this has a lot to do with how we interpret what each other is saying.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm only addressing the points of focusing on color instead of focusing more directly on people who are racist. To me we are all the same and should be colorblind towards one another when it comes to how we judge and treat one another. We (us who can look past a person's color and view each other for who they are) should be focusing on the problems of racism still today...not continuing it by making race relevant.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I know! I can't see how you move past a problem by continuing it.
If the color of one's skin has no bearing on how that person should be treated....then live that very way.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I also think there's a difference between forgetting history and wallowing in it ... One must not forget, but one must also know when to move on. Not an easy task, granted.
i think i see what you're saying and i think i'm talking more about colorblind on a societal level, not a personal (or interpersonal) one. we have to make race relevant in order to focus on and deal with the problems of racism. for example, the acknowledgment that our recent history of racism has contributed to inequalities in things like education and financial situations. at the same time we could definitely do as you say and be 'colorblind' towards each other in the way of treating each other well. but we can't be colorblind as a society and think that we are all equal in regards to things like education and economic situations because if people think that, we will never be able to become equal.
cross the river to the eastside
It was an honest question because my perspective of Obama is so different than yours. So I'm asking these questions to see how we come to these extremely different conclusions. I wasn't trying to insult you in any way. Some people do think electability is a very valid reason to vote for someone and I do not. I was only trying to make the distinction in your case because you brought up the varying degrees me and you would have to settle. Actually I think we tend to agree on most issues, so my question was an honest one. And even if I think your reasonings for support weren't the best in the end after we came to a clear understanding of what they were, then so be it....obviously you don't think too highly of mine to bring up things like 'street cred' or 'righteousness' as if my decisions weren't based on my principles but for some kind of 'appearance's sake'. If I'm wrong then feel free to correct me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
But we...me and you, everyone...we make up society. And how we view race creates how our society deals with it.
We can not correct problems of the past by reliving the same thing today...judging and treating one another differently based on race. We can always focus on problems of our society today when racism occurs and work together on fixing those problems by promoting equality....part of that, though is actually living our lives treating everyone equal.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i believe i already said that what i'm saying is not about reliving it. it's not about treating each other differently. in order to obtain equality we have to realize the effects of our racist history and how that has impacted our society. or else we will continue to repeat history. that is all.
cross the river to the eastside
Right. I don't want to deny the past. I want to learn from it. And in learning from it, we have to see how treating others as 'not equal' based on race alone has not worked out, is illogical and is completely wrong.
The white people of the past are not the white people of today...and even then everyone wasn't a racist BUT it was widely accepted. Today however, it is not, it is looked down on for personal matters and against the law for matters of opportunity and discrimination etc....so it is much easier for us to pin point the blame/problem of racism on people who are actively being racist now. We are now able to move past blanket assessments based on color and view individuals who perpetuate this cycle as the ones we need to place focus on.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Then how are you proposing we go about this so we can be clear?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i'm not sure what you are asking. are you looking for my step by step plan to rid america of racism?
cross the river to the eastside
No, of course not. More of a general direction. My position is that we as a society and we as individuals shouldn't treat/view one another differently based on race. You posted a piece saying we shouldn't be colorblind like that. So I was just wondering in which ways you think we should not be colorblind towards one another as far as present actions go?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The funny thing is, I was having a conversation with a Democratic activist here at work last week where I was more in "your" position defending my past Nader votes. Weird how things work. I did point out that if it wasn't for Nader ruining Gore's run (debatable, I know), then the Democrats would be dealing with a Lieberman nomination right now. He didn't think me too funny, though.
True, but the sad truth is that the white people of today have inherited that legacy and are left to deal with the consequences of history. The proper way to deal with those consequences can't simply be to declare them "water under the bridge". They must be addressed head on. Ignoring them or wishing them away doesn't cut it.