Dude seriously I'm scared

hippiemom

Collin wrote:

Dinosaurs?


Don't live in fear, it's useless.

Exactly! You will face whatever life throws at you, the same as you always have, and if life throws the worst you'll probably surprise yourself and deal with it better than you'd have imagined. Going around being frightened won't improve the world's situation even one tiny bit, so why do it?

jeffbr

gremmiev wrote:

China, who has the most influence over the country, needs to use their leverage and force N. Korea to further talks and find a diplomatic solution... and if this fails THEN enforce financial sanctions and force inspections on all imports and exports of goods but do not stop aid getting to the people.

What would you consider a reasonable timeline for diplomatic solutions? I agree with you that diplomatic solutions are preferred and when they fail THEN enforce financial sanctions. So how much time do we give diplomatic solutions?

I also agree with you about China and I think they're getting a little tired and embarrassed by N. Korea, so I expect them to step up soon. It isn't in their interest to have N. Korea cause other Asian countries (ie Taiwan, Japan) to start pursuing nuke programs.

polaris

jeffbr wrote:

What would you consider a reasonable timeline for diplomatic solutions? I agree with you that diplomatic solutions are preferred and when they fail THEN enforce financial sanctions. So how much time do we give diplomatic solutions?

I also agree with you about China and I think they're getting a little tired and embarrassed by N. Korea, so I expect them to step up soon. It isn't in their interest to have N. Korea cause other Asian countries (ie Taiwan, Japan) to start pursuing nuke programs.

i propose not calling north korea an axis of evil ... negotiate to have our own weapons stock reduced especially nuclear ... agree never to invade or occupy the country ... that would be a start i say ...

binauralsounds

thankyougrandma wrote:

sanctions would only make the peoples suffer more, the government officials and military officials won't lack any food or clean water even if you impose strict sanctions, only the population will suffer...

so you think the people are taken care of now??? Lil kim is makin sure his people are not suffering???
Cmon!

Byrnzie

jeffbr wrote:

What is your solution, then? We've tried ignoring them. We've tried talking with them. I'm completley opposed to military action over there. So it seems to me your "worst solution" sounds like the best solution.

How about we leave them be, instead of provoking them into aggression? I mean, not evryone likes being fucked with.

binauralsounds

Byrnzie wrote:

How about we leave them be, instead of provoking them into aggression? I mean, not evryone likes being fucked with.

Tell that to China. They aren't too happy right bout now with that crazy bitch.

LikeAnOcean

outontheporch wrote:

Man the way the world is now, I'm seriously scared every day of my life. There's not a moment that goes by where I'm not at least slightly peturbed about what will happen next. I'm not blambing GW or anyone in particular. I'll leave that to you guys. I'm paranoid now that a nuke will fall on my head any minute after hearing about N. Korea's test. I can't enjoy life 100%, because I'm always afraid now of my friend's in Iraq that are in danger. I already lost my best friend over there. Man the world sucks these days. But when did it ever not suck? Maybe back when all we had to worry about was grabbing some caveman food. But even they had to worry about dinasaurs or some crap. Whatever, I'm going to go have a beer and play some Final Fantasy and pretend I was in the game, instead of here.

Where you alive during the cold war? Things were MUCH worse then. At one point we were a trigger from the end of the world.

jeffbr

Byrnzie wrote:

How about we leave them be, instead of provoking them into aggression? I mean, not evryone likes being fucked with.

So the head-in-the-sand solution is now on the table. And do you recommend that Japan, Taiwan and other countries in the vicinity just ignore them as well? This isn't just a US provocation. Even Russia and China, who aren't really our buddies, are concerned with N. Korea at this point.

Byrnzie

jeffbr wrote:

So the head-in-the-sand solution is now on the table. And do you recommend that Japan, Taiwan and other countries in the vicinity just ignore them as well? This isn't just a US provocation. Even Russia and China, who aren't really our buddies, are concerned with N. Korea at this point.

I would suggest that these other Asian countries focus most of their attention on diplomacy with the U.S. Afterall, it's the U.S that is rattling sabres as per usual. If it's not North Korea, then it's Iran. If it's not Iran, it's Sadaam and his 'weapons of mass destruction'. If it's not Sadaam, it's Castro. E.t.c, e.t.c, ad infinitum.
I would say that diplomacy needs to be pursued with both the U.S and North Korea by all third parties concerned.

LikeAnOcean

Whats scarier to me is not that they have them, but that they are already threatening to use them.

jeffbr

Byrnzie wrote:

I would suggest that these other Asian countries focus most of their attention on diplomacy with the U.S. Afterall, it's the U.S that is rattling sabres as per usual.

Don't know if you heard, but N. Korea just rattled a sabre this weekend.

Byrnzie wrote:

I would say that diplomacy needs to be pursued with both the U.S and North Korea by all third parties concerned.

3rd parties have been talking with both sides for years. 3rd parties have expressed displeasure at N. Korea's actions. 3rd parties have encouraged us to pursue diplomatic efforts and involve the UN which is what has been happening for years to little affect. What would be your next step? Or are we back to the head-in-the-sand propsal?

Byrnzie

Does anyone remember when not long after Bush first took office he managed to create a dangerous situation with China? Remember that Chinese plane that was knocked out of the sky? tensions were running high and there was talk of a crises e.t.c? People have short memories. China couldn't give a fuck about the Bush Administration. But obviously they're concerned that any conflict between the U.S and Korea may draw them in. It's obviously in their interests to make a show of condemning Korea in public. What's actually going on behind closed doors between China and North Korea is another matter.

Cosmo

You know.. there are things far worse than punk-ass North Korea out there.
There are literally hundreds of thousands of meteors out there... some the size of Texas that intersect Earth's orbit. One hit from one of them and you won't have to worry about the Korean George Bush anymore.
...
In other words... don't sweat it. You cannot control the things you cannot control. Just take care of your little corner of the planet.
This life and this planet have a lot of wonderful things to offer... you just need to take the time to enjoy them. Put your bike on the rack and drive it down to the beach and cruise the strand... enjoy the Sun and the surf. Stop to take in the wildflowers that cling to the sides of the cliffs. Put things into perspective and center yourself again. Just do your part and figure that even if Kim Jong Il and George W. Bush aren't doing their part... at least you are doing yours.

Byrnzie

jeffbr wrote:

Don't know if you heard, but N. Korea just rattled a sabre this weekend.



3rd parties have been talking with both sides for years. 3rd parties have expressed displeasure at N. Korea's actions. 3rd parties have encouraged us to pursue diplomatic efforts and involve the UN which is what has been happening for years to little affect. What would be your next step? Or are we back to the head-in-the-sand propsal?

Just as I said, 'rattling sabres'. Taunting, bribing and threatening North Korea. These 'diplomatic efforts' you speak of. What are they? Threats of sanctions e.t.c. Bully-boy tactics! Same with Iran. I.e, business as usual.

Byrnzie

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Whats scarier to me is not that they have them, but that they are already threatening to use them.

Really? When? You mean, just like Iran, they have said that if they are attacked then they will retaliate? Right. And if the U.S was attacked with nuclear missiles would they not retaliate?
So what's your point?

LikeAnOcean

Byrnzie wrote:

Really? When? You mean, just like Iran, they have said that if they are attacked then they will retaliate? Right. And if the U.S was attacked with nuclear missiles would they not retaliate?
So what's your point?

Except, Iran isn't threatening to use them.
Give me second, I'll find the story. I'm pretty sure it was otherwise, but if I'm wrong you can sue me.

LikeAnOcean

Byrnzie wrote:

Really? When? You mean, just like Iran, they have said that if they are attacked then they will retaliate? Right. And if the U.S was attacked with nuclear missiles would they not retaliate?
So what's your point?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/10/korea.nuclear.test/index.html


Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but they are threatening to fire one unless we talk with them.

"We hope the situation will be resolved before an unfortunate incident of us firing a nuclear missile comes."
-unidentified North Korean official (could be US propoganda though)

Byrnzie

LikeAnOcean wrote:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/10/korea.nuclear.test/index.html

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but they are threatening to fire one unless we talk with them.

"We hope the situation will be resolved before an unfortunate incident of us firing a nuclear missile comes."
-unidentified North Korean official (could be US propoganda though)

'South Korea's Yonhap news agency, in a dispatch carried by The Associated Press, quoted an unidentified North Korean official as saying, "We hope the situation will be resolved before an unfortunate incident of us firing a nuclear missile comes."

"That depends on how the U.S. will act," the official said.'


Hmm, this could be interpreted in a couple of ways. I would expect that unless he's asking for North Korea to be retaliated against, and for millions of people to die, and that he's therefore insane, that in fact what he is saying is that North Korea will fire a missile if attacked first.

LikeAnOcean

Byrnzie wrote:

'South Korea's Yonhap news agency, in a dispatch carried by The Associated Press, quoted an unidentified North Korean official as saying, "We hope the situation will be resolved before an unfortunate incident of us firing a nuclear missile comes."

"That depends on how the U.S. will act," the official said.'


Hmm, this could be interpreted in a couple of ways. I would expect that unless he's asking for North Korea to be retaliated against, and for millions of people to die, and that he's therefore insane, that in fact what he is saying is that North Korea will fire a missile if attacked first.

I totally understand your original point, but either way, the idea of a nuke being launched is scary. Lets just hope he really isn't insane, or going insane.

jeffbr

Byrnzie wrote:

Just as I said, 'rattling sabres'. Taunting, bribing and threatening North Korea. These 'diplomatic efforts' you speak of. What are they? Threats of sanctions e.t.c. Bully-boy tactics! Same with Iran. I.e, business as usual.

We have been pursing diplomatic solutions through a few different avenues. Most recently the six-party talks, with their multilateral format, tried to create dialog that wouldn't create a US vs. N. Korea situation. It was multilateral pressure from US, Russia, China, S. Korea, and Japan. And it wasn't all about threats. There were offers of opening up trade, improving relations with neighbors, etc...

But I expect you'll go on believing that the US is the source of all problems everywhere in the world, even in the face of contrary evidence.