Have Corporations beaten the Unions?

jeffbr

El_Kabong wrote:

and paying someone $20hr is different than paying someone so little they can't afford health insurance other than medicare/aid. but why does that person only deserve $15/hr if their ceo is making hundreds of times that for doing less? and don't give me that crap about building a company and making it thrive...there's more than enough examples of companies losing profit while the ceos get huge bonuses and pay

Ethics are great. Even given your definition above, we'd disagree about ethical behavior.

And you've just made my day by demonstrating how the market works. Companies can and do lose profit while CEOs get outrageous bonuses and pay, and sometimes those companies go away because of it. But other times, the best and brightest are retained and the company continues to prosper.

jeffbr

El_Kabong wrote:

tell that to the employees of enron!!!

The employees of Enron were caught up in the same greed that Ken Lay was, weren't they?

El_Kabong

jeffbr wrote:

The employees of Enron were caught up in the same greed that Ken Lay was, weren't they?

not really, there's a good book and doc on enron and how for a long time they wouldn't let ppl pull their money out. there were lots of ppl who got caught up from enron buying the company they worked for...their money was put into enron b/c that was enron's rules...then when they tried to get their money out they wouldn't let them

and it is still possible to make profits and be ethical and pay your employees enough to live off of

surferdude

El_Kabong wrote:

and it is still possible to make profits and be ethical and pay your employees enough to live off of

So when are you franchising this business?

I've never understood how people can think that a company you work for owes you health insurance. People sure like to partake in profit when someone else is risk risking their own money. But I've yet to hear these same people applaud layoffs when the company loses money, or to pay the owners out their own pockets to make up for the loss.

If you want the reward take the risk. Until then please work for your state to provide universal health care, and stop with this living wage crap.

Abookamongstthemany

surferdude wrote:

So when are you franchising this business?

I've never understood how people can think that a company you work for owes you health insurance. People sure like to partake in profit when someone else is risk risking their own money. But I've yet to hear these same people applaud layoffs when the company loses money, or to pay the owners out their own pockets to make up for the loss.

If you want the reward take the risk. Until then please work for your state to provide universal health care, and stop with this living wage crap.

One thing is sure. Whether it be in the factories or workshops, in the mines or forests, in offices, or in homes, anything which impairs the efficiency of workers is almost certain to cost the lives and limbs of an increasing number of our soldiers, sailors and airmen.
-William L. M. King

They are invested in their employees. Their health and well being should be of great importance if you're interested in efficiency.

And for that matter, the employees are the ones producing the profit...they should own the factories. Let the working man get investors and actually get some competition out there instead of having the big guys continue to run any small businesses out of town. This trend is very damning to our society and is destroying the middle class, leaving people with no options and no chance at living this dream so many claim is alive and thriving.

surferdude

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

And for that matter, the employees are the ones producing the profit...they should own the factories. Let the working man get investors and actually get some competition out there instead of having the big guys continue to run any small businesses out of town. This trend is very damning to our society and is destroying the middle class, leaving people with no options and no chance at living this dream so many claim is alive and thriving.

But employees can own the factory. It's called buying shares. But far too many people are way too concerned with what material things they can buy with their wages than making an investment in where they work, or hope to work in the future. Nothing is stopping these workers from banding together and building their own factory except their own short sightedness.

Where you give people freedom some will struggle. Where you take away freedom all will struggle.

bootlegger10

Maybe unions beat themselves.

Abookamongstthemany

surferdude wrote:

But employees can own the factory. It's called buying shares. But far too many people are way too concerned with what material things they can buy with their wages than making an investment in where they work, or hope to work in the future. Nothing is stopping these workers from banding together and building their own factory except their own short sightedness.

Where you give people freedom some will struggle. Where you take away freedom all will struggle.

I don't believe it is only due to short sightedness or laziness. The dream can't happen for everybody...some are going to be at the lower end of the stick always and those people deserve better. We're the richest nation in the world and it doesn't show by how we treat our less fortunate. We treat them like some lower life form who are complete failures and we strip them of all their integrity. The reality of mountains of debt, millions who can't afford health insurance for their families and widening lower class can't continue to be ignored. It just ain't working. There will be generations to follow behind us and be left with this mess.