Have Corporations beaten the Unions?

El_Kabong

THC wrote:

I saw something online a few days ago which said...a while back...General Motors was the biggest employer in the United States. The average salary of the person working for them was $45,000/yr. plus full benefits.

Now, the biggest employer in the U.S. is Walmart. The average salary of the person working there is $19,000/yr. and partial if any benefits.

and 2nd was mcdonalds....

El_Kabong

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Unions may help their members, but as a whole, they hurt the lower-income population as a whole.

Some grocery checkers earn $20/hour...and get paid double or triple time on some holidays.

As a result, groceries cost much more, so single moms have to pay inflated prices for baby food. Parents have to pay inflated admission prices to amusement parks because the food service staff are union.

I am all for worker's rights in terms of workplace safety, but if an unskilled worker who is a union member expects to be paid $25/hour for moving some equipment on a movie set, I think there is something wrong happening in our society

i'd be willing to be the profit exceeds their payroll. you can say things drive the price up, but whatever that thing is rarely exceeds the profit they are making.

for example you can say giving every wal-mart associate under $25k/yr an extra dollar raise will drive up costs in the store...but how much of that inflation is based on the profits the ceos make? like i said, i'd be willing to bet that would be far more.

isn't the avg ceo to avg worker pay rate someting like $371:$1??? they could easily keep prices the same as well as giving the avg worker a raise by reducing that to $361:$1, but that will never happen...it's far easier to blame the worker for wanting a fair share and an income they can LIVE on

i won't even get into how they waste company money the numerous ways they do or how pharmaceutical companies advertising budgets far exceed their r&d budgets

A Surprise Left

Unions certainly played a key and positive role here in Oz and creating a society where there were not vast numbers of poor. However the unions also became corrupt and in the case of the construction industry did not allow non-union members to set foot on construction sites. If people want to join unions they should be encouraged to do so by their employers. If on the other hand people do not, they should not be vililfied by their co-workers or their union.

miller8966

El_Kabong wrote:

i'd be willing to be the profit exceeds their payroll. you can say things drive the price up, but whatever that thing is rarely exceeds the profit they are making.

for example you can say giving every wal-mart associate under $25k/yr an extra dollar raise will drive up costs in the store...but how much of that inflation is based on the profits the ceos make? like i said, i'd be willing to bet that would be far more.

isn't the avg ceo to avg worker pay rate someting like $371:$1??? they could easily keep prices the same as well as giving the avg worker a raise by reducing that to $361:$1, but that will never happen...it's far easier to blame the worker for wanting a fair share and an income they can LIVE on

i won't even get into how they waste company money the numerous ways they do or how pharmaceutical companies advertising budgets far exceed their r&d budgets

Walmart and other corporations create jobs; maybe in your little fantasy world you dont need corporations, but here in the real world we do.

jeffbr

El_Kabong wrote:

i'd be willing to be the profit exceeds their payroll. you can say things drive the price up, but whatever that thing is rarely exceeds the profit they are making.

Profit is a good thing. Without profit there is no incentive for the business owner(s). If you can hire someone for $15/hr and keep prices down, why the hell would you pay them $20/hr and raise prices? As a consumer, I'm always happy to see prices lower. As a business person I'm always happy to see margins improving.

El_Kabong wrote:

for example you can say giving every wal-mart associate under $25k/yr an extra dollar raise will drive up costs in the store...but how much of that inflation is based on the profits the ceos make? like i said, i'd be willing to bet that would be far more.

isn't the avg ceo to avg worker pay rate someting like $371:$1??? they could easily keep prices the same as well as giving the avg worker a raise by reducing that to $361:$1, but that will never happen...it's far easier to blame the worker for wanting a fair share and an income they can LIVE on

CEO wages are determined by the market. Would you switch that function to a central planning committee?

El_Kabong wrote:

i won't even get into how they waste company money the numerous ways they do or how pharmaceutical companies advertising budgets far exceed their r&d budgets

What is your answer? Government oversight of allowable corporate waste? I'm pretty sure the Government as their own little waste issues. Government approval of corporate budgets/spending?

miller8966

jeffbr wrote:

Profit is a good thing. Without profit there is no incentive for the business owner(s). If you can hire someone for $15/hr and keep prices down, why the hell would you pay them $20/hr and raise prices? As a consumer, I'm always happy to see prices lower. As a business person I'm always happy to see margins improving.





CEO wages are determined by the market. Would you switch that function to a central planning committee?




What is your answer? Government oversight of allowable corporate waste? I'm pretty sure the Government as their own little waste issues. Government approval of corporate budgets/spending?

Jeff you dont understand..most liberals dont work. Supply and demand and the economy is meaningless to a liberal.

JOEJOEJOE

miller8966 wrote:

Jeff you dont understand..most liberals dont work. Supply and demand and the economy is meaningless to a liberal.

Your comments show that you are interested in insulting others, as opposed to voicing an opinion.

El_Kabong

miller8966 wrote:

Walmart and other corporations create jobs; maybe in your little fantasy world you dont need corporations, but here in the real world we do.

maybe so, but they can also act ehtically, can they not? and to me, making billions in profit off the labor of ppl i pay so little that they can't even afford health insurance is wrong. maybe to you exploitation is ok, but i frown on it.

El_Kabong

jeffbr wrote:

Profit is a good thing. Without profit there is no incentive for the business owner(s). If you can hire someone for $15/hr and keep prices down, why the hell would you pay them $20/hr and raise prices? As a consumer, I'm always happy to see prices lower. As a business person I'm always happy to see margins improving.





CEO wages are determined by the market. Would you switch that function to a central planning committee?




What is your answer? Government oversight of allowable corporate waste? I'm pretty sure the Government as their own little waste issues. Government approval of corporate budgets/spending?

my answer is:
Main Entry: eth·ic
Pronunciation: 'e-thik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ethik, from Middle French ethique, from Latin ethice, from Greek EthikE, from Ethikos
1 plural but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2 a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values <the present-day materialistic ethic> <an old-fashioned work ethic> -- often used in plural but sing. or plural in constr. <an elaborate ethics> <Christian ethics> b plural but singular or plural in construction : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group <professional ethics> c : a guiding philosophy d : a consciousness of moral importance <forge a conservation ethic>
3 plural : a set of moral issues or aspects (as rightness) <debated the ethics of human cloning>


and paying someone $20hr is different than paying someone so little they can't afford health insurance other than medicare/aid. but why does that person only deserve $15/hr if their ceo is making hundreds of times that for doing less? and don't give me that crap about building a company and making it thrive...there's more than enough examples of companies losing profit while the ceos get huge bonuses and pay

JOEJOEJOE

El_Kabong wrote:

i'd be willing to be the profit exceeds their payroll. you can say things drive the price up, but whatever that thing is rarely exceeds the profit they are making.

for example you can say giving every wal-mart associate under $25k/yr an extra dollar raise will drive up costs in the store...but how much of that inflation is based on the profits the ceos make? like i said, i'd be willing to bet that would be far more.

isn't the avg ceo to avg worker pay rate someting like $371:$1??? they could easily keep prices the same as well as giving the avg worker a raise by reducing that to $361:$1, but that will never happen...it's far easier to blame the worker for wanting a fair share and an income they can LIVE on

i won't even get into how they waste company money the numerous ways they do or how pharmaceutical companies advertising budgets far exceed their r&d budgets

I concur that everyone deserves a living wage.

Who do you think owns the "corporations"?......we own them...our pension plans, our stock portfolios.....the profits make the shares more attractive, and that makes the values of our pensions go up.

JOEJOEJOE

gue_barium wrote:

What grocery store is that? I'm applying.

Most union grocery stores in Los Angeles......and the union workers get great pension benefits, triple-time on some holidays, and health coverage.

miller8966

El_Kabong wrote:

my answer is:
Main Entry: eth·ic
Pronunciation: 'e-thik
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English ethik, from Middle French ethique, from Latin ethice, from Greek EthikE, from Ethikos
1 plural but singular or plural in construction : the discipline dealing with what is good and bad and with moral duty and obligation
2 a : a set of moral principles : a theory or system of moral values <the present-day materialistic ethic> <an old-fashioned work ethic> -- often used in plural but sing. or plural in constr. <an elaborate ethics> <Christian ethics> b plural but singular or plural in construction : the principles of conduct governing an individual or a group <professional ethics> c : a guiding philosophy d : a consciousness of moral importance <forge a conservation ethic>
3 plural : a set of moral issues or aspects (as rightness) <debated the ethics of human cloning>


and paying someone $20hr is different than paying someone so little they can't afford health insurance other than medicare/aid. but why does that person only deserve $15/hr if their ceo is making hundreds of times that for doing less? and don't give me that crap about building a company and making it thrive...there's more than enough examples of companies losing profit while the ceos get huge bonuses and pay

lol you act like the peopl at walmart are working on building the world trade center.

What the fuck do you think you should get for beign a casheer?

40K a year?

WHats a stock boy make 70k?

El_Kabong

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

I concur that everyone deserves a living wage.

Who do you think owns the "corporations"?......we own them...our pension plans, our stock portfolios.....the profits make the shares more attractive, and that makes the values of our pensions go up.

tell that to the employees of enron!!!

JOEJOEJOE

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I know! What a ridiculously exaggerated example.

How is the example exagerrated?

miller8966

El_Kabong wrote:

tell that to the employees of enron!!!

bad things happen. SHould we blame all muslims for Osama?

El_Kabong

miller8966 wrote:

lol you act like the peopl at walmart are working on building the world trade center.

What the fuck do you think you should get for beign a casheer?

40K a year?

WHats a stock boy make 70k?

enough to live on and afford health insurance while their employer makes several billions in profit

JOEJOEJOE

El_Kabong wrote:

tell that to the employees of enron!!!

touche'

El_Kabong

miller8966 wrote:

bad things happen. SHould we blame all muslims for Osama?

well, you do!

and enron is far from the only case. in fact there were lots of ppl involved in the enron thing...citibank, arthur anderson...

miller8966

El_Kabong wrote:

well, you do!

and enron is far from the only case. in fact there were lots of ppl involved in the enron thing...citibank, arthur anderson...

You named 2 people.

corporations are a great thing...

miller8966

El_Kabong wrote:

enough to live on and afford health insurance while their employer makes several billions in profit

If you dont like working at walmart get another job!!