Have Corporations beaten the Unions?

THC

I saw something online a few days ago which said...a while back...General Motors was the biggest employer in the United States. The average salary of the person working for them was $45,000/yr. plus full benefits.

Now, the biggest employer in the U.S. is Walmart. The average salary of the person working there is $19,000/yr. and partial if any benefits.


The question posed then is...."Have Unions in this country been defeated by the Major Corporations?"

what do people think?

surferdude

Unions defeated themselves by not adapting to a world economy. Unions defeated the very people they were supposed to represent by not insisting all union members use part of there good to great wages every year to update their schooling. Unions defeated themselves by settling for mediorcity based on seniority rather than striving to be the best based on ability.

enharmonic

Global competition has beaten the American unions. When it became clear to American corporations that the government would not help them abolish the unions, the corporations struck out into developing nations to get the cheap labor.

This is an effect that I like to refer to as the double-edged sword of capitalism. The corporations are in business to make money, not to ensure that Americans have good jobs. That is the responsibility of the individual in this society.

tybird

surferdude wrote:

Unions defeated themselves by not adapting to a world economy. Unions defeated the very people they were supposed to represent by not insisting all union members use part of there good to great wages every year to update their schooling. Unions defeated themselves by settling for mediorcity based on seniority rather than striving to be the best based on ability.

Well said......there is also the fact that the leadership of some unions was quite corrupt and acted in the same manner that the heads of many corporations acted. They were in it for the money and self-improvement.

THC

I agree w/ what many have said about how the Unions in the U.S. have lost out...and I'm not necessarily in support of Unions...however...this trend is very alarming to me.

the fact that Walmart is the biggest employer in the U.S., and NONE of us would ever want to work at a Wall-Mart due to their poor pay and benefits is a sad state of affairs.

Unions may not be the answer...but the rich keep getting richer...and the poor...keep getting more and more in debt.

Honestly...this trend makes me think of past U.S. history when Unions began in the first place...in order to stop the exploitation of workers. It seems there are no anti-trust laws being enforced anymore...and the Unions are def. on the decline.

surferdude

THC wrote:

Unions may not be the answer...but the rich keep getting richer...and the poor...keep getting more and more in debt.

Honestly...this trend makes me think of past U.S. history when Unions began in the first place...in order to stop the exploitation of workers. It seems there are no anti-trust laws being enforced anymore...and the Unions are def. on the decline.

Unions don't fit into the world economy, expecially a union in the US or Canada.

Places like Wal-Mart thrive off of our greed and drive to acquire at the lowest cost possible. We have adopted the same mentality as consumers thta we say we despise in corporations. There's a huge mind set change that needs to take place. We have to recognize that all people are equal and the same. That closing our eyes to the conditions in which things are made is unconscienceable. That treating the protection of an American worker is paramount over the protection of a person working in another country is shortsighted. It may put the dvd player in your family room at $19.99 but it jeopardizes your job in the long run.

The only value I can see unions having is in third world and developping countries. Ensuring worker saftey is paramount, then working to build workers' rights. But look at the countries we've decided to trade with, they don't necessarily believe in either safety for their workers or the concept of workers' rights. The uN can and should be playing a big role here but as usual is falling far short.

jeffbr

THC wrote:

I saw something online a few days ago which said...a while back...General Motors was the biggest employer in the United States. The average salary of the person working for them was $45,000/yr. plus full benefits.

Now, the biggest employer in the U.S. is Walmart. The average salary of the person working there is $19,000/yr. and partial if any benefits.


The question posed then is...."Have Unions in this country been defeated by the Major Corporations?"

what do people think?

This was a stupid Rolling Stone article written by a guy who should have been scholarly, but instead wrote something that would have been failed in a Pol Sci 101 class.

This apples and oranges comparison was just one of about 30 things I saw in a quick reading of the article. Comparing the salaries and benefits of skilled labor (welders, assemblers, engineers, etc...) to that of unskilled retail labor (baggers, checkers, stockers, etc...) makes no sense, and was simply done for effect.

To the point of unions, they've outlived their purpose (if they ever had one).

bryanfury

hell yes they have!

a lot of employers blatantly discourage employees from joining unions. When my wife became a teacher in NC, the girl going over her benefits made it pretty clear that joining the teacher's union was a bad idea.

and with corporations having increased control in washington, unions will be a thing of the past very soon.

quite sad...

bryanfury

jeffbr wrote:

This was a stupid Rolling Stone article written by a guy who should have been scholarly, but instead wrote something that would have been failed in a Pol Sci 101 class.

This apples and oranges comparison was just one of about 30 things I saw in a quick reading of the article. Comparing the salaries and benefits of skilled labor (welders, assemblers, engineers, etc...) to that of unskilled retail labor (baggers, checkers, stockers, etc...) makes no sense, and was simply done for effect.

To the point of unions, they've outlived their purpose (if they ever had one).

hey buddy, thank the unions for 5 day work weeks, and benefits (and loads of other stuff as well). you think corps. would have given that stuff out for no reason?

surferdude

bryanfury wrote:

hey buddy, thank the unions for 5 day work weeks, and benefits (and loads of other stuff as well). you think corps. would have given that stuff out for no reason?

Do you think the workplace would not have evolved without unions? Unions had their time and place. They did not adapt to a changing environment. They pretty much made themselves extinct.

bryanfury

surferdude wrote:

Do you think the workplace would not have evolved without unions? Unions had their time and place. They did not adapt to a changing environment. They pretty much made themselves extinct.

no, i do not think they would have. the trend was going anti-worker more and more. how would it have changed? who would have changed it? do you think the corporations would have just done it by themselves???

surferdude

bryanfury wrote:

no, i do not think they would have. the trend was going anti-worker more and more. how would it have changed? who would have changed it? do you think the corporations would have just done it by themselves???

Unions have been in a serious decline for quite a while now. But my benefits package, pay package and vacation time keeps improving. America faces a huge shortage of highly skilled workers. Unions never represented these people or professionals. Companies have to keep improving workplace conditions, benefits and pay to interst workers in staying and in coming to the company. There is a trickle down effect to less skilled workers. In the 21st century it is the educated worker who is driving workplace improvements.

If you want to credit unions for what you have, you better also credit them with driving offshore workers, third world country production facilities and with killing the big 3 auto companies in America.

bryanfury

surferdude wrote:

Unions have been in a serious decline for quite a while now. But my benefits package, pay package and vacation time keeps improving. America faces a huge shortage of highly skilled workers. Unions never represented these people or professionals. Companies have to keep improving workplace conditions, benefits and pay to interst workers in staying and in coming to the company. There is a trickle down effect to less skilled workers. In the 21st century it is the educated worker who is driving workplace improvements.

If you want to credit unions for what you have, you better also credit them with driving offshore workers, third world country production facilities and with killing the big 3 auto companies in America.

so unions are the problem with US automakers, not the sub standard cars they produce? and I won't even touch the other 2 there because the fact that our country wants to pay its workers a decent wage is a good thing. if you want to pay them 3rd world rates, then we'll turn into a third world nation.

and yes, NOW companies are improving benefits because of competition. I truly believe that without unions, workers would have zero rights at this point in our history. are unions perfect? no. it leads to lazy and entitled workers. but the flipside is having all the power in the hands of the corps.

i'll put the power in the hands of the people any day. if you feel that corps. deserve it, maybe you should move to china.

surferdude

bryanfury wrote:

if you feel that corps. deserve it, maybe you should move to china.

No thanks. I'll take my chances being the in demand skilled worker in North America. While being glad I live in a country where I have the freedom the start my own business if I so desire, knowing that I'll reap the rewards for my risk-taking.

I'm all for a fair trade of work for comensation. But inthe global economy you better have a highly skilled work set to trade with. If not a company will find an offshore company to do it.

Just wondering if you are working on the foreign made computer costing $500 to $1,000. Or the made in USA by union model running $5-10K.

bryanfury

surferdude wrote:

No thanks. I'll take my chances being the in demand skilled worker in North America. While being glad I live in a country where I have the freedom the start my own business if I so desire, knowing that I'll reap the rewards for my risk-taking.

I'm all for a fair trade of work for comensation. But inthe global economy you better have a highly skilled work set to trade with. If not a company will find an offshore company to do it.

Just wondering if you are working on the foreign made computer costing $500 to $1,000. Or the made in USA by union model running $5-10K.

i'm not sure what your point is? that we should buy american just because its american?

the whole point i'm trying to enforce is that unions are this evil thing that we are lead to believe nowadays. we can't forget the many great things unions have done. and i just don;t see how you can pin all that stuff on unions. seems a bit of a stretch.

gue_barium

There are good Unions and bad Unions just as there are good Corporations and bad Corporations. The idea that one has defeated the other on some kind of global scale is kind of absurd.

CorporateWhore

Yes, unions have been defeated. Good riddance.

gue_barium

Even clowns have Union representation.

JOEJOEJOE

Unions may help their members, but as a whole, they hurt the lower-income population as a whole.

Some grocery checkers earn $20/hour...and get paid double or triple time on some holidays.

As a result, groceries cost much more, so single moms have to pay inflated prices for baby food. Parents have to pay inflated admission prices to amusement parks because the food service staff are union.

I am all for worker's rights in terms of workplace safety, but if an unskilled worker who is a union member expects to be paid $25/hour for moving some equipment on a movie set, I think there is something wrong happening in our society

gue_barium

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

Unions may help their members, but as a whole, they hurt the lower-income population as a whole.

Some grocery checkers earn $20/hour...and get paid double or triple time on some holidays.

As a result, groceries cost much more, so single moms have to pay inflated prices for baby food. Parents have to pay inflated admission prices to amusement parks because the food service staff are union.

I am all for worker's rights in terms of workplace safety, but if an unskilled worker who is a union member expects to be paid $25/hour for moving some equipment on a movie set, I think there is something wrong happening in our society

What grocery store is that? I'm applying.

Abookamongstthemany

gue_barium wrote:

What grocery store is that? I'm applying.

I know! What a ridiculously exaggerated example.