U.S. Stocks End Sharply Lower As Financials Woes Return

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Comments

  • SpreadtheJAM
    SpreadtheJAM Posts: 344
    Also in regards to the dollars recent strength. Dollar should remain strong against euro, because they are just as bad if not worse than we are here. Eurozone is conflicted between 4% inflation and declining growth. We may have brought them down with us, but that means we'll shake it off first.
    BORGATA>VIC
  • LikeAnOcean
    LikeAnOcean Posts: 7,718
    Driften.. can't spend your whole life worrying.. one day we will all be dead and what will we have to say for the life we lived..
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    my friend supply and his buddy demand.
    That's an interesting theory, considering the price of oil went up by 62% between october 07 and may 08. If you go back a little you can also see it went up by 300% in 4 years.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    That's an interesting theory, considering the price of oil went up by 62% between october 07 and may 08. If you go back a little you can also see it went up by 300% in 4 years.

    you're calling supply & demand an "interesting theory"? yes. yes it is. :rolleyes:
  • BinFrog
    BinFrog MA Posts: 7,314
    I love the fact that you posted this thread with a smiley-face. Says a lot.
    Bright eyed kid: "Wow Typo Man, you're the best!"
    Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    you're calling supply & demand an "interesting theory"? yes. yes it is. :rolleyes:
    Clever answer. Use numbers next time to make a point.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    Clever answer. Use numbers next time to make a point.

    sure np. but I'm failing to see the point you were trying to make. care to explain?
  • spiral out
    spiral out Posts: 1,052
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7569903.stm
    US bank 'to fail within months'

    The global financial crisis is set to get worse, with a large US bank likely to collapse in the next few months, a former IMF chief economist has warned.

    Kenneth Rogoff's comments came as shares in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac sank on a report that the home lenders would, in effect, be nationalised.

    Despite hopes that the US economy had turned the corner, Mr Rogoff claimed it was "not out of the woods".

    "I would even go further to say 'the worst is to come'," he said.

    "We're not just going to see mid-sized banks go under in the next few months," said Mr Rogoff, who held the IMF role between 2001 and 2004.

    "We're going to see a whopper, we're going to see a big one, one of the big investment banks or big banks."
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    sure np. but I'm failing to see the point you were trying to make. care to explain?
    It's pretty simple : oil prices have gone up 300% in 4 years and 62% in just 6 months. How is that rise possibly linked to supply/demand?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    It's pretty simple : oil prices have gone up 300% in 4 years and 62% in just 6 months. How is that rise possibly linked to supply/demand?

    the price of oil is traded on the open market. supply and demand is the only factor that can move the price.

    what are you getting at?
  • Kann
    Kann Posts: 1,146
    spyguy wrote:
    the price of oil is traded on the open market. supply and demand is the only factor that can move the price.

    what are you getting at?
    That supply and demand is not a rock solid law, it's a best a nice theory that's lost in various market manipulations as the oil market has been showing us recently. Before having my life ruled by the omnipotent laws of economics I would have liked that our governments made sure these laws actually worked.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    Kann wrote:
    That supply and demand is not a rock solid law, it's a best a nice theory that's lost in various market manipulations as the oil market has been showing us recently. Before having my life ruled by the omnipotent laws of economics I would have liked that our governments made sure these laws actually worked.

    actually it is pretty rock solid in this case. its a openly traded commodity. how has oil been manipulated? what what is your definition of market manipulation?
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    spyguy wrote:
    actually it is pretty rock solid in this case. its a openly traded commodity. how has oil been manipulated? what what is your definition of market manipulation?

    I think oil has been manipulated in so many various ways that it is hard to pinpoint exactly what is going on.

    At the darkest and highest levels, i think there was actual verbally agreed collusion by massive players in the market (think Bilderberg) to run up futures contracts, thus wagging the dog (futures determining the actual near term price).

    And in case you think the whole idea of oil manipulation is a crack-pot conspiracy, go try googling "Oil manipulation" ... here is just one good example:
    Calgary Herald, August 14th 2008: REGULATOR TARGETS OIL MANIPULATION
    article wrote:
    Energy - The U.S. Federal Trade Commission proposed new rules that would levy stiff fines for manipulation in the petroleum markets.

    The plan seeks to deter "fraudulent or deceptive conduct," including false reporting or misleading announcements by refineries, pipelines or investment banks, the FTC said in a statement. Violators could face civil penalties of up to $1 million US per violation per day.

    "The Federal Trade Commission is committed to exercising its authority to determine whether crude oil, gasoline or petroleum distillates price increases at wholesale are a result of illegal market manipulation," the agency's chairman, William Kovacic, said in a statement.

    So you think the FTC needs a lesson i "supply and demand" or you think that there may possibly be some actual dirty tricks going on in the market?

    :cool:

    ps - and "having balls" in the trading game is a good way to get yourself broke in a hurry. The market doesn't give a flying fuck about your ego or cohones. Smarts and patience get you a lot further than bullheaded determination to make a play regardless of the risk involved. Just like Abusketi, i made the determination that the risks outweigh the rewards at this point in time ... so far as trading is concerned.

    pps - markets are beat up pretty heavy again today. Inflation is at a 27 year high, and analysts on TV are saying that this is "alarming... to put it mildly" and that if the Fed can't reign in inflation in short order there will be "severe problems for the street".

    ppps - its hard to "reign in inflation" when you just signed the most massive bailout package in history. Yikes!
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • YieldInHiding
    YieldInHiding Posts: 1,841
    spyguy wrote:
    give me a break dude. excuse me for recognizing the dollars recent gains. its better then cheerleading for the opposite.....something you seem to be doing.

    It's something he excels at. Just ignore him. I tried to this time but curiosity got the best of me.
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    YieldInHiding wrote:
    It's something he excels at. Just ignore him. I tried to this time but curiosity got the best of me.

    Yeah you got it.
    I'm a fucking fearmonger.

    Type in "US Dollar" on Google and click "news"
    here is the search ...

    Look at the first screen full of stories.

    Oil rises as US dollar weakens
    Dollar Gives Crude a Lift
    Crude Oil Advances on Weaker Dollar
    OIL FUTURES: Nymex Crude Leaps $3 In Thin Volume As Dlr Sags
    Dollar slides on higher US inflation, oil gain
    Producer Price Index Jumps 1.2%; Housing Starts Reverse June Rise
    WRAPUP 1-US inflation pressures mount; home building slows
    European markets fall on financial worries, US inflation data
    FOREX-Profit-taking, weak stocks drag US dollar lower
    FOREX-US dollar falls for 2nd straight day as stocks weigh
    Global stocks slide on credit and inflation fears

    The news is pretty unanimously shitty and grim.
    The housing market remains fucked.
    Freddie and Fannie remain fucked.
    Inflation remains totally and unequivocally fucked.
    The forecast for stocks is more or less fucked.
    Large banks are looking fucked.
    The manufacturing sector is by and large wholly fucked.
    The big US automakers are 100% fucked.

    and yet somehow i'm supposed to get excited and report ecstatically about some phony baloney rise in the dollar ...

    Bob Chapman is a smart man:
    Markets Continue to be Subject to Manipulations and False Information
    part of article from Aug 9th wrote:
    In what can only be described as the most obnoxious market manipulations of all time, the elitists have pulled out all the stops to give the stock markets their final "hurrah", while simultaneously producing the greatest precious metals and resource share bargains you could have possibly hoped for. Let 8/8/08 stand as a testament to the unmitigated gall and flagrant manipulation of markets by the President's Working Group on Financial Markets, known as the PPT, whose existence and 24/7 illegal intervention in every market on the planet, though unacknowledged by the Fed and our government, has now been confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt.

    And straight from the headline of Chapman's August 13th article ... AND THIS IS FOR SPYGUY who says i have no balls ... :rolleyes: ...

    "Economy of the Living Dead" ...
    relevant to SpyGuy wrote:
    markets too chaotic to make money anymore due to extreme volatility [... from body of article now ...]
    The extreme market volatility in all markets has made trading conditions next to chaotic. The worst volatility that we’ve seen in 48 years.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Yeah you got it.
    I'm a fucking fearmonger.

    Type in "US Dollar" on Google and click "news"
    here is the search ...

    Look at the first screen full of stories.

    Oil rises as US dollar weakens
    Dollar Gives Crude a Lift
    Crude Oil Advances on Weaker Dollar
    OIL FUTURES: Nymex Crude Leaps $3 In Thin Volume As Dlr Sags
    Dollar slides on higher US inflation, oil gain
    Producer Price Index Jumps 1.2%; Housing Starts Reverse June Rise
    WRAPUP 1-US inflation pressures mount; home building slows
    European markets fall on financial worries, US inflation data
    FOREX-Profit-taking, weak stocks drag US dollar lower
    FOREX-US dollar falls for 2nd straight day as stocks weigh
    Global stocks slide on credit and inflation fears

    The news is pretty unanimously shitty and grim.
    The housing market remains fucked.
    Freddie and Fannie remain fucked.
    Inflation remains totally and unequivocally fucked.
    The forecast for stocks is more or less fucked.
    Large banks are looking fucked.
    The manufacturing sector is by and large wholly fucked.
    The big US automakers are 100% fucked.

    and yet somehow i'm supposed to get excited and report ecstatically about some phony baloney rise in the dollar ...

    Bob Chapman is a smart man:
    Markets Continue to be Subject to Manipulations and False Information



    And straight from the headline of Chapman's August 13th article ... AND THIS IS FOR SPYGUY who says i have no balls ... :rolleyes: ...

    "Economy of the Living Dead" ...

    you are a fearmonger. yup I like that term. where were your threads last week when the market rebounded? secondly, how old r u? is this for your first market downturn? do you understand that markets fluctuate? seems to me ( and apparently others) you love to cheer for the US economy to tank. it actually gets you off.

    and yea, the world according to bob chapman. BFD. he's a complete dumbass based on this statement...

    "markets too chaotic to make money anymore due to extreme volatility"

    Traders LOVE volatility. thats how they make money.
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    yes the financial and housing sectors suck right now. everyone knows it but other companies and sectors are doing very well...like HP who just reported earnings..

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/19/news/companies/hp_earnings.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008081917

    Hewlett-Packard beats expectations
    Laptop sales help drive up third-quarter profit by 14%, company remains world's No. 1 seller of PCs.

    Oil is down 30+ dollars off the high. the dollar, while showed signs of weakness today, is also .10 cents off the low. the world isnt a deep dark place that you think it is.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    spyguy wrote:
    you are a fearmonger. yup I like that term. where were your threads last week when the market rebounded? secondly, how old r u? is this for your first market downturn? do you understand that markets fluctuate? seems to me ( and apparently others) you love to cheer for the US economy to tank. it actually gets you off.

    and yea, the world according to bob chapman. BFD. he's a complete dumbass based on this statement...

    "markets too chaotic to make money anymore due to extreme volatility"

    Traders LOVE volatility. thats how they make money.

    a dead cat bounce off of a near term bottom -- especially one predicated on manipulation -- is no reason to cheer.

    i'm old enough to know that this isn't just some ordinary fucking downturn.
    If you sat and thought hard, you might reach the same conclusion.

    and no, traders like volatility, but if i gets too rough, it becomes nearly impossible to make accurate enough predictions\assessments to make any money.

    If you fail to understand that extreme volatility can be counterproductive to profit in trading, then i would say it is clear not only that you are not a trader, but also quite possibly that it is not Chapman who is the DA here.

    Sure volatility can make you wads of cash,
    but if the market turns erratically each time you pick a position ... and it turns severely ... you will get stopped out until you are BLOWN OUT!

    And if you are NOT getting stopped out,
    it means you are a gambling fool, because a trader who trades without stops is likely to not be a trader very long.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • spyguy
    spyguy Posts: 613
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    a dead cat bounce off of a near term bottom -- especially one predicated on manipulation -- is no reason to cheer.

    i'm old enough to know that this isn't just some ordinary fucking downturn.
    If you sat and thought hard, you might reach the same conclusion.

    and no, traders like volatility, but if i gets too rough, it becomes nearly impossible to make accurate enough predictions\assessments to make any money.

    If you fail to understand that extreme volatility can be counterproductive to profit in trading, then i would say it is clear not only that you are not a trader, but also quite possibly that it is not Chapman who is the DA here.

    Sure volatility can make you wads of cash,
    but if the market turns erratically each time you pick a position ... and it turns severely ... you will get stopped out until you are BLOWN OUT!

    And if you are NOT getting stopped out,
    it means you are a gambling fool, because a trader who trades without stops is likely to not be a trader very long.

    so you are 22? 23? not around during the recession of the 80s or even smart enough to know what hwas going on during the .com boom/bust? listen kid, these types of things happen.

    and yes, traders love volatility. thats the bottom line. dance around that fact anyway you want, its true.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    spyguy wrote:
    and yes, traders love volatility. thats the bottom line. dance around that fact anyway you want, its true.

    so how much trading have you ever done, Mr. Knowitall?
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?

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