U.S. Stocks End Sharply Lower As Financials Woes Return
DriftingByTheStorm
Posts: 8,684
from CNN Money ...
and two more fun ones:
Guardian UK -- GLOBAL MARKETS -U.S. stocks tumble, debt rises on bailout fears
and then, for SpyGuy who, like JLew before him, is doing a bit of premature cheerleading for a rally off the not-yet-identified bottom:
Bloomberg: Dollar May Fall Before Reports on U.S. Housing, Producer Prices
Beginning of Article wrote:Stocks fell sharply Monday, with financial-sector woes coming back to the fore amid reports of more losses at Lehman Brothers and of a bail-out for mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
"It's all about the financial sector again and these problems resurfacing," said Peter Cardillo, chief market economist at Avalon Partners. "The market is wondering what is going to happen if the government really has to step in and bail out Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae."
The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJI) fell 180 points, or 1.6%, to end at 11, 478, with all of its 30 components falling. The benchmark index was pulled lower by AIG (AIG), off 6%, Citigroup (C), down 5%, and General Motors Corp. (GM), off 7%. The struggling automaker said it will roll out new incentives this week.
The Dow industrials' other financial stocks -- American Express (AXP), Bank of America (BAC), Citigroup (C) and J.P. Morgan Chase (JPM) -- also dragged down the blue-chip index.
Newsweekly Barron's said it is growing more likely that the U.S. government will recapitalize Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE), wiping out investors who still hold shares in the mortgage giants.
Shares of both Fannie and Freddie fell sharply, with the former down 22% and the latter down 25%.
Separately, Lehman Brothers (LEH) lost 7% after The Wall Street Journal said it could lose $1.8 billion during the quarter.
The steep losses in financials also came on the heels of some gains in the sector Friday. The temporary bump came as bond insurers Ambac Financial Group ( ABK) and MBIA Inc. (MBI) had their credit ratings affirmed and as crude-oil futures continued their decline.
After posting gains since the middle of July and so far in August, the market still seems unable to get past the continued fall-out of bad home loans that have led to a global credit crisis and mountains of losses for financial firms, analysts said.
"We believe that a sustained uptrend in stocks will require additional good news from both the credit and energy markets," said Bob Doll, chairman of BlackRock, in his weekly investment letter. [continued at source...]
and two more fun ones:
Guardian UK -- GLOBAL MARKETS -U.S. stocks tumble, debt rises on bailout fears
Snippet of Article wrote:NEW YORK, Aug 18 (Reuters) - Credit crisis jitters shook Wall Street on Monday, dragging down stocks and lifting safe-haven government debt, as fears mounted that the U.S. Treasury will need to bail out the two largest mortgage finance companies.
The U.S. dollar slid against the yen and euro as relatively steady oil prices weighed on the currency and prompted investors to take profits after the greenback's recent sharp rally.
and then, for SpyGuy who, like JLew before him, is doing a bit of premature cheerleading for a rally off the not-yet-identified bottom:
Bloomberg: Dollar May Fall Before Reports on U.S. Housing, Producer Prices
Article in Part wrote:Aug. 19 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar may fall for a second day against the euro before reports forecast to show U.S. housing starts fell last month to the lowest level in 17 years and wholesale costs rose at a slower pace.
The U.S. currency decreased yesterday against the yen as concern the government will be forced to bail out Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac led some investors to sell higher-yielding assets and pay back loans in Japan's currency. The dollar retreated from the highest in almost six months versus the euro on bets its 6 percent gain this month is too fast to be sustained.
``One could get too optimistic too soon about the dollar,'' said Robert Sinche, head of global currency strategy at Bank of America Corp. in New York, in an interview on Bloomberg Radio. ``The economy does face some headwinds in the second half of the year.''
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
give me a break dude. excuse me for recognizing the dollars recent gains. its better then cheerleading for the opposite.....something you seem to be doing.
Drifting probably has some short positions in the financial sector and is starting to get worried he played it the wrong way. Hes doing his part to cover himself.
Right.
Because manipulators pushed the price of oil down over $30 a barrel in the same period.
Just wait for the ground truth of bailout and inflation to creep back to the front burner of the collective market's imagination.
USDX $0.72 will be back in the sights in relatively short order at that point.
And Spyguy, its not cheerleading for a crash, its called forecasting realistic possibilities ... as opposed to ... you know ... head-in-the-sand wishful thinking.
I know you claim to be new here, so you probably don't remember 12 months ago before the market even started moving downward ... when i was on here screaming in agony and woe about the possibility of SERIOUS economic problems on the horizon.
I got laughed off the site for that,
and since then its been mostly more of the same.
Hell, as late as March, people here were STILL telling me it wasn't a recession, and was more of just a "normal correction" and that i was hugely over reacting.
The "cheerleading" is just follow up on those original concerns to keep the sand-munchers up to speed on reality. Hopefully some day, some here will understand the truth about private central bank control of "free markets" and the reality of what happens when you allow private instituions to socialize their losses and captialize profit on a scale of trillions $USD.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
i'm out of the market at this point.
the manipulation is too ridiculous right now to make any accurate analysis.
up is down, and down is up.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
The Bible of investing....The Successful Investor: What 80 Million People Need to Know to Invest Profitably and Avoid Big Losses by William ONeil.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
so you are an expert with no balls. I swear, there are millions of you around
If you didn't think $145 was "fair" in the first place,
who do you think was driving the price UP?
Answer that,
and you've got the return trip figured out too.
There is unaided speculation (the average joe, and the average firm making reasonable guesses about direction) and then there is the dark collusion of massive monetary forces united to perpetrate massive manipulation.
Sure there was a fair share of blind speculation going on, but the real culprit was something much deeper and darker.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I am out too.. been out sind Feb 2007. I am getting itchy to get back in.
you know, at some point you have to cash in on your winnings.
I sm beginning to feel the media hounds should fabricate another recovery and millions will follow.
lotza people on the sidelines right now.. the next upward correction may be swift.
I agree a collapse is possible, and prehaps even likely.. but give the pretenders credit, it is not beyone them to hide this for 5 or 10 more years...
my friend supply and his buddy demand.
are you the price of darkness? lol no offense pal but I can see why you've been the laughing stock when it comes to this issue.
No.
I'm smart enough to recognize when turbulence and noise are just that, and not worthy of a wager. This is like earlier this year (in the thick of this shit) when a CNBC anchor asked Rick Santelli what the traders on the floor were trading these days. Santelli's priceless response was, "They're not! That's the point here. This market i just too dangerous, and the pay off just isn't there. If this atmosphere continues much longer, we are going to see these people take their money home and never come back." ...
and i think, unfortunately, that IS what has happened here, and it is making the problem all the worse. The greater the turbulence, the greater the smoke screen for massive manipulation. The greater the manipulation the greater the turbulence. And the greater that turbulence, the LESS regular old honest folk and firms will want to even be in the market playing at all. And the less THOSE honest folk play, the WORSE it will get.
i don't have deep pockets, and i am not (nor have i ever claimed to be) an expert.
i do have half a brain though,
and i try to use it on occasion.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
2 to 3 years is what the folks i put credence in are saying.
but you are right, i tend to try and NEVER underestimate the dark ways of TPTB.
Thanks for lending a smidgen of credence to what i have been saying here, abusk!
I know you don't usually stick your neck out like that, intentional or otherwise.
PS.
and i am out UNTIL that upward correction happens.
Then I, along with lots of other smart and patient folks, will be looking to short the fuck out of it.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
what exactly are you shorting? and at what price?
rule #1 - Never call a bottom.
see above.
Probably an index.
Although if the banks bounce back hard (not looking too likely), i will probably "whack" them too.
Rule #2 - Never call a top.
This is all wait and see, brotha'.
If over the short term (1-2 months) the S&P (probably the broadest index firms) gets in to the 1,400 range (1,380 - 1,450 even) i would probably look for shorts.
Of course, i may be singing a different tune dependent on what and how exactly the markets are responding. Or what and how the government and TBPB are doing under the table.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
I dont think one single thing drove it up, but those massive monetary forces you mentioned are the hedge funds. they are the same as the average speculator except they are throwing around billions instead of millions. That has something to do with it.
Manipulation is very subjective. manipulation can be opec tightening output, or manipulation can be Goldman Sachs setting a price target at two hundred dollars a barrel by years end.
The firms you speak of have their motives. Goldman probably went long on oil and bought all these contracts when oil was at 125 then come out with reports suggesting the price would spike. conflict of interest. thats manipulation.
you're calling supply & demand an "interesting theory"? yes. yes it is. :rolleyes:
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"
sure np. but I'm failing to see the point you were trying to make. care to explain?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
the price of oil is traded on the open market. supply and demand is the only factor that can move the price.
what are you getting at?