Why Are We Forced To Consume Fluoride In Municipal Tap Water?

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  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I'd be happier with Ozonation rather than cholorination as a means of cleaning the drinking water.

    But what about the fluoride?

    And Know1, just because I can choose not to use the water i pay for, does it mean that most Americans should unwittingly be duped in to consuming something that may or may not be of detriment to their health, and certainly something that has perceived benefits that are seemingly now in serious question.

    Hell, they could put cyanide in the water and you could use your silly argument, which is "don't drink" it, but come one.

    SHOULD they be doing it?

    ???
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    I remember reading somewhere about they were doing studies about the fluoride being breathed in during showers. The flouridized steam from hot showers being breathed into the lungs was thought by some to be harmful.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    flywallyfly wrote:
    I remember reading somewhere about they were doing studies about the fluoride being breathed in during showers. The flouridized steam from hot showers being breathed into the lungs was thought by some to be harmful.

    Gas masks in the shower, anyone? :D
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    stealing our bodily fluids...
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Gas masks in the shower, anyone? :D

    Hehehe. That would freak out your significant other !! They would think think they entered a Pink Floyd world !
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    So far this is the rebuttal i have found: here.

    What i find most curious is that the rebuttal presented here to the "anti-fluoride" "movement" is little more than a propagandized smear campaign.

    The ONLY science brought up to support fluoride in this "article" is studies showing it doesn't cause cancer ... while i'm sure those studies themselves could be brought to scrutiny ... the real question is why is that the ONLY claim rebuked.

    From my original article, i don't see cancer too many places on that 50 reasons why we shouldnt use it ... but i read a lot of medical studies questioning the effectiveness of it, and questioning effects on the immune system OTHER than cancer.

    This article is ALMOST as bad as the IRS printing up a FAQ on "Tax Protester Arguments Debunked" which systematicaly goes through and debunks EVERY tax argument EXCEPT the one that is VALID. Namely, there is no expressed "liability" provided in the code.

    Interesting.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    flywallyfly wrote:
    Hehehe. That would freak out your significant other !! They would think think they entered a Pink Floyd world !

    I know... the visual image of walking into a steamy bathroom all groggy, first thing in the morning and glancing over at someone wearing a gas mask while scrubbing away gives me the willies. :p
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I know... the visual image of walking into a steamy bathroom all groggy, first thing in the morning and glancing over at someone wearing a gas mask while scrubbing away gives me the willies. :p

    gas mask shower
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    gas mask shower

    oooo...that's too freaky! while at the same time, pretty darn good artistically speaking.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    I'm sorry.
    Its forced in to the water that comes in to my house, and which i pay for, without control over the chemicals in it.

    ?
    does that clarify it better
    ?

    Drill a well?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
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  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    honestly though man, when's the last time you heard anything about infrastructure in a campaign speech?

    I don't think trace flouride levels are cancerous or dentists would have spoken up by now or at least had some serious problems, but even then, as long as it's sanitary and water comes out, people don't give a crap about infrastructure.

    Cancer simply being cell change I have no doubt if exposed to High levels for long periods something bad could happen. But I doubt seriously that the PPB Flouride found in most public water is to be feared greatly.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Do they take out the flouride? We just get our water jugs refilled at the market. I have a hard time trusting anything that smells that bad even if it's gone through a filter.


    I'm not sure, I'll have to find that out. I'm not sure how small the ions are.

    I'll look it up.


    Looks like RO or Reverse Osmosis (straining the water over a charged membrane is the most effective way to remove the flouride) if you also add a carbon microfilter it will help get rid of the chlorine and and giardia and the other nastys. Some filters you can buy also have viral guards but that's not necessary for tap water.

    RO is your best option for Flouride Removal I think

    I'm not sure how great this unit is but here's what an RO system under counter would look like.

    The Whole house stuff is A LOT more expensive.

    http://www.advancedwaterfilters.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AWF&Product_Code=TM&Category_Code=UC

    I think I'd definately pay the extra 40 bucks for antimicrobial tubing. Yuck. makes me think about all those clogged ice machine filters out there.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Who is "forcing" you to drink municipal tap water? Are there laws in your area forbidding you to drink water that does not come from the town's water supply?
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Who is "forcing" you to drink municipal tap water? Are there laws in your area forbidding you to drink water that does not come from the town's water supply?

    Give me a fucking break.
    My OP CLEARLY says "why are we forced to consume fluoride IN municipal tap water".

    in other words, if we choose to drink the water which we assume is safe and comes to our house -- honestly, isn't that the most likely supply for most of us -- why are we FORCED in to having fluoride in that?

    What the fuck is wrong with you people.

    Again, what if it was cyanide?
    Would that change the argument?

    or is it still, "Hey no one has a gun to your head making you drink out of the tap."

    Give me a fucking break.
    If none of you has the balls enough to step up and say, "Hey assuming any of this about fluoride is true." (which i still don't know! is it?) "Assuming that, why the fuck is the government still putting it in the water!??!"

    Thats all i'm fucking asking.
    And you semantic wankers are playing semantic wanker games with me.

    Get the fuck on with it, and quit playing semantics, for fucks sake.

    You people have nothing better to do than turn respectable questions around and make a mockery out of them just because you find linguistic fault in the argument.

    I fucking hope kat bans me for this.
    I realy fucking hope so.
    Cause you people piss me off so bad,
    i need a fucking break.

    I can't believe it.
    From you of all people, FFG.

    :rolleyes:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    Looks like RO or Reverse Osmosis (straining the water over a charged membrane is the most effective way to remove the flouride) if you also add a carbon microfilter it will help get rid of the chlorine and and giardia and the other nastys. Some filters you can buy also have viral guards but that's not necessary for tap water.

    Not to get too far off topic but one thing you should remember if you are taking steps to remove the chlorine from your water is if you want to drink it you have to keep it really cold. The main purpose of chlorine is to kill bacteria and if you have warm drinking water (like say a jug sitting on your counter at room temperatuer) it is basically a pool for bacteria to grow in.
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    I'd be happier with Ozonation rather than cholorination as a means of cleaning the drinking water.

    The only think about ozone (and I learned this when I used to work at a swimming pool) is that it only kills bacteria and other crap at the filter point when it gets zapped with the ozone. Once the water is sent to the pipes it is no longer protected unless it is exposed to ozone again. This is why ozone swimming pools still use a small amount of chlorine since the only pure water is the stuff that just comes out of the filter, only chlorine can kill the bacteria that is in the pool.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Give me a fucking break.
    My OP CLEARLY says "why are we forced to consume fluoride IN municipal tap water".

    I don't understand. Who is forcing you to consume this?
    in other words, if we choose to drink the water which we assume is safe and comes to our house

    Why would you ever assume that?
    honestly, isn't that the most likely supply for most of us -- why are we FORCED in to having fluoride in that?

    This makes no sense. It's like asking "why am I FORCED at the supermarket to buy 6 Twinkies in a box instead of just one Twinkie from the box?"
    What the fuck is wrong with you people.

    Too much flouride, I guess.
    Again, what if it was cyanide?
    Would that change the argument?

    Not really. Most tap water contains levels of arsenic, too.
    or is it still, "Hey no one has a gun to your head making you drink out of the tap."

    Yes.
    If none of you has the balls enough to step up and say, "Hey assuming any of this about fluoride is true." (which i still don't know! is it?) "Assuming that, why the fuck is the government still putting it in the water!??!"

    Thats all i'm fucking asking.
    And you semantic wankers are playing semantic wanker games with me.

    Get the fuck on with it, and quit playing semantics, for fucks sake.

    You people have nothing better to do than turn respectable questions around and make a mockery out of them just because you find linguistic fault in the argument.

    I fucking hope kat bans me for this.
    I realy fucking hope so.
    Cause you people piss me off so bad,
    i need a fucking break.

    I can't believe it.
    From you of all people, FFG.

    :rolleyes:

    Yikes. Dude, I've never seen a shred of evidence that flouride, at the levels found in tap water, is highly toxic. I've seen plenty of speculation that may, one day, prove to be true. But the reason you don't see outrage is because the proven benefits of flouride outweight the speculative harm.

    Now, if you want to suggest that you shouldn't be forced to subsidize municipal drinking water sources in the event that you don't use them, I'm completely on board with you. But to suggest you're "forced" to drink that water when no such force exists is silly.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    Give me a fucking break.
    My OP CLEARLY says "why are we forced to consume fluoride IN municipal tap water".

    in other words, if we choose to drink the water which we assume is safe and comes to our house -- honestly, isn't that the most likely supply for most of us -- why are we FORCED in to having fluoride in that?

    What the fuck is wrong with you people.

    Again, what if it was cyanide?
    Would that change the argument?

    or is it still, "Hey no one has a gun to your head making you drink out of the tap."

    Give me a fucking break.
    If none of you has the balls enough to step up and say, "Hey assuming any of this about fluoride is true." (which i still don't know! is it?) "Assuming that, why the fuck is the government still putting it in the water!??!"

    Thats all i'm fucking asking.
    And you semantic wankers are playing semantic wanker games with me.

    Get the fuck on with it, and quit playing semantics, for fucks sake.

    You people have nothing better to do than turn respectable questions around and make a mockery out of them just because you find linguistic fault in the argument.

    I fucking hope kat bans me for this.
    I realy fucking hope so.
    Cause you people piss me off so bad,
    i need a fucking break.

    I can't believe it.
    From you of all people, FFG.

    :rolleyes:

    Holy shit, that sounds like me and Kabong's arguments! It drives me up a wall when he ignores my solid point to nitpick semantics. Just calm down and reword your concerns (which you have already done), they're legitimate. Don't let it get to ya so much.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    DBTS, are you against chlorine as an additive to public water sources as well?
  • Pacomc79
    Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    Not to get too far off topic but one thing you should remember if you are taking steps to remove the chlorine from your water is if you want to drink it you have to keep it really cold. The main purpose of chlorine is to kill bacteria and if you have warm drinking water (like say a jug sitting on your counter at room temperatuer) it is basically a pool for bacteria to grow in.



    The only think about ozone (and I learned this when I used to work at a swimming pool) is that it only kills bacteria and other crap at the filter point when it gets zapped with the ozone. Once the water is sent to the pipes it is no longer protected unless it is exposed to ozone again. This is why ozone swimming pools still use a small amount of chlorine since the only pure water is the stuff that just comes out of the filter, only chlorine can kill the bacteria that is in the pool.

    makes sense, I've noticed Bromine becoming more popular as well. I guess that's where the salt water pool with the small amounts of choloride are introduced.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    he ignores my solid point

    What is the "solid point" that I am ignoring here?

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