I realize that no one side has the market cornered on it. I just find it as the only entertaining thing left on this board since most of the sanity seems to have left.
I disagree. I find a wide range perspectives and lines blurring here lately....not to mention some of the most fascinating topics I've ever read!
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I disagree. I find a wide range perspectives and lines blurring here lately....not to mention some of the most fascinating topics I've ever read!
You may be right but, just like this thread, most of the threads that I have read over the past few months have degenerated into what this one was headed towards.
When Diana Raphael Carver of Snohomish takes her menorah out each year, she is reminded of eating potato pancakes at Hanukkah celebrations when she was a child, and looks forward to observing the holiday with her own daughter and 3-year-old granddaughter.
When she lights the menorah's candles, it's a time for reflection. That's why she doesn't like the idea of displaying a giant electric menorah at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.
"It cheapens Hanukkah" and reduces the menorah to a decoration, said Carver, a retired advertising executive. "It takes away from what Hanukkah really means — a thanking of God and reminding us of the miracle that happened."
Carver is among other local Jews who, for a variety of reasons, say they disagree with the approach of a local rabbi who requested that the Port of Seattle install an 8-foot-tall electric menorah at the airport.
When Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky and his attorney couldn't get a definite answer from the Port they threatened legal action, sending the Port a draft of a 24-page lawsuit.
The Port took down its Christmas trees, prompting a torrent of angry e-mails and extensive media coverage. On Monday, the rabbi said he wouldn't file a lawsuit and Port staff put the trees back up.
There will be no menorah displayed this year, though the Port said Tuesday that it would form a committee early next year to determine how best to handle the issue.
Elsewhere around the Seattle area, there already are a number of menorahs in public areas — many of them given by Bogomilsky's group, Chabad-Lubavitch.
Thousands of people around the world have been proud to participate in public menorah lightings, according to Bogomilsky, who said his organization presents the menorahs to share the message of "religious freedom over oppression."
Rabbi Daniel Weiner at Temple De Hirsch Sinai in Seattle and Bellevue, said the intentions of Bogomilsky and his organization were good but don't represent the majority opinion or approach of the larger Jewish community.
Chabad-Lubavitch is part of the Hasidic movement within Orthodox Judaism and also a global outreach organization intended to help Jews deepen their faith and expand their practice. It does outreach on college campuses, and places menorahs in public places — about 11,000 worldwide.
Weiner believes that displaying a menorah every time there's a Christmas tree "establishes a false parallel between Christmas and Hanukkah.
"Hanukkah is a minor Jewish festival. Christmas is a major Christian festival. It skews Jewish religious priorities to assert that Hanukkah needs to have equal time with Christmas."
Rabbi Anson Laytner, executive director of the Greater Seattle Chapter of the American Jewish Committee, said "most Jews support the traditional separation of church and state," and would not want menorahs publicly displayed because they're religious symbols of Hanukkah.
Marc Levy, an attorney in Seattle, said displays of religious symbols on government property have to be looked at through a legal lens. But he wouldn't mind public displays of menorahs at private businesses or shopping malls.
A menorah is a religious symbol, "but nothing more than a symbol and has to be taken as such," he said. "Am I offended if I go to a private shopping mall and all I see is Christmas decorations? I'm not offended. It merely reminds me that I'm a minority religion.
"Would I like to see more Jewish symbols? Sure, but I don't expect it."
What offends him, Levy says, is seeing the dilution of religious symbols — their conversion into secular symbols.
"The idea that you can put up a Christmas tree and say 'happy holidays' to everyone is not respectful of Christianity and not respectful of other religions. ...
"For Christians, I'm sure, it cheapens their symbols. And I'm sure it offends everyone else who doesn't share their symbols because those aren't my holidays."
Carver, the Snohomish resident, said she's upset that Bogomilsky and his attorney threatened a lawsuit. She also doesn't think much of electric menorahs. The flame "is a very special symbol of God's love. An electronic bulb doesn't cut it."
But Bogomilsky said menorahs symbolize freedom, tolerance and joy and that those with bulbs "are clearly a great way of having that message last longer than an hour."
Seattle Times staff reporter Lornet Turnbull contributed to this report. Janet I. Tu: 206-464-2272 or jtu@seattletimes.com.
POSTED: 8:22 a.m. EST, December 13, 2006
By Lou Dobbs
CNN
Editor's note: Lou Dobbs' commentary appears every Wednesday on CNN.com
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Merry Christmas! That's right, Merry Christmas. Whether you're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, pagan, barbarian or whatever, Merry Christmas!
It's what most of us say in this country come this time of year. It's about who we are, where we are and where we've been. And all the namby-pamby, little sensitive darlings among us who can't handle this verbal assault on their delicate senses should immediately begin seeking emergency psychiatric care.
This week we were treated to the spectacle of an easily offended and highly offensive rabbi who walked into an airport, gazed upon Christmas trees all around him and suddenly was overwhelmed with an immense, and apparently irresistible, urge to sue the management of the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport because nowhere among all the Christmas trees was a single menorah. Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement of Seattle even delivered to the airport's management a draft of a lawsuit he would file if they didn't sprinkle menorahs around the Christmas trees.
Political correctness in this country reached an entirely new level of absurdity some years ago. But occasionally, and the situation at Sea-Tac is just such an occasion, we exceed ourselves. The militant fundamentalist rabbi so flummoxed Sea-Tac management with his threat and their perceived obligation to be "politically correct" that, rather than think rationally or simply tell him to stuff it, they started hacking away at all those artificial Christmas trees and quickly descended into a public relations nightmare in which they managed to offend reason, cultural values and the vast majority of Americans.
As CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin told me, "The Supreme Court has held since 1984, the famous 'Reindeer Rule,' that if a symbol of Christmas is mostly secular, like a reindeer or a Christmas tree or Santa Claus, that is not a violation of the separation of church and state."
The irony that escaped the rabid rabbi and the timid Sea-Tac management team is that the Christmas tree's likely origin dates back to pre-Christian pagan cultures. The Christmas tree is not by any means a religious symbol, and when we're honest about it, the tree's become a purely commercial symbol more closely associated with shopping, roasting chestnuts and guzzling eggnog than a nativity scene with baby Jesus.
And hang on, Christians, because you're in 21st Century America, and our culture celebrates your holiest day of the year with such insensitive gusto that our economy would suffer a serious setback if your religious sensibilities were as easily offended as those of the litigious rabbi.
More than 140 million shoppers spent an average of about $360 on Black Friday alone, the day after Thanksgiving and the unofficial kickoff to the Christmas shopping season, according to the National Retail Federation. And all those Christmas shoppers are expected to spend nearly a half-trillion dollars this shopping season.
Now if I were a fundamentalist Christian, that might strike me as a little politically incorrect. And I think all of you folks should think about suing somebody. You know, get in the spirit of the season.
This mindless movement of political correctness at all costs is one of the most un-American and crazy twists in our culture as anything we've witnessed. Remember, we're Americans, and we have freedom of speech, that whole life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness thing. Or at least we did.
And I hope you'll celebrate the Christmas season by offending someone. If you're Jewish, how about a hearty "Happy Hanukkah" to a good Christian? If they're offended you've revealed a fool, not such a good Christian and someone you shouldn't waste your expression of good will upon. But get ready for a few robust "Merry Christmas" calls to be thrown your way as well.
The operators of the Seattle-Tacoma airport quickly righted a potentially dreadful wrong. The rabbi decided not to file a suit, Christmas trees have sprung back up throughout the concourse, and no, not a single menorah has been spotted. I can only hope this is the beginning of a major movement in America, one that regards thinking as paramount to phony feelings and heightened self-centered sensitivities. Common sense and judgment should always reign supreme over political correctness, no matter what the current trend.
And, my gosh, even Wal-Mart this year has abandoned its generic, politically correct "Happy Holidays" greeting in favor of "Merry Christmas." I'm starting to think this may be the season to be jolly after all. Ho, ho, ho.
To all, a Merry Christmas. OK, and a Happy Hanukkah, too.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the writer.
Comments
I disagree. I find a wide range perspectives and lines blurring here lately....not to mention some of the most fascinating topics I've ever read!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You may be right but, just like this thread, most of the threads that I have read over the past few months have degenerated into what this one was headed towards.
Do public menorahs cheapen Hanukkah?
By Janet I. Tu
Seattle Times staff reporter
When Diana Raphael Carver of Snohomish takes her menorah out each year, she is reminded of eating potato pancakes at Hanukkah celebrations when she was a child, and looks forward to observing the holiday with her own daughter and 3-year-old granddaughter.
When she lights the menorah's candles, it's a time for reflection. That's why she doesn't like the idea of displaying a giant electric menorah at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.
"It cheapens Hanukkah" and reduces the menorah to a decoration, said Carver, a retired advertising executive. "It takes away from what Hanukkah really means — a thanking of God and reminding us of the miracle that happened."
Carver is among other local Jews who, for a variety of reasons, say they disagree with the approach of a local rabbi who requested that the Port of Seattle install an 8-foot-tall electric menorah at the airport.
When Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky and his attorney couldn't get a definite answer from the Port they threatened legal action, sending the Port a draft of a 24-page lawsuit.
The Port took down its Christmas trees, prompting a torrent of angry e-mails and extensive media coverage. On Monday, the rabbi said he wouldn't file a lawsuit and Port staff put the trees back up.
There will be no menorah displayed this year, though the Port said Tuesday that it would form a committee early next year to determine how best to handle the issue.
Elsewhere around the Seattle area, there already are a number of menorahs in public areas — many of them given by Bogomilsky's group, Chabad-Lubavitch.
Thousands of people around the world have been proud to participate in public menorah lightings, according to Bogomilsky, who said his organization presents the menorahs to share the message of "religious freedom over oppression."
Rabbi Daniel Weiner at Temple De Hirsch Sinai in Seattle and Bellevue, said the intentions of Bogomilsky and his organization were good but don't represent the majority opinion or approach of the larger Jewish community.
Chabad-Lubavitch is part of the Hasidic movement within Orthodox Judaism and also a global outreach organization intended to help Jews deepen their faith and expand their practice. It does outreach on college campuses, and places menorahs in public places — about 11,000 worldwide.
Weiner believes that displaying a menorah every time there's a Christmas tree "establishes a false parallel between Christmas and Hanukkah.
"Hanukkah is a minor Jewish festival. Christmas is a major Christian festival. It skews Jewish religious priorities to assert that Hanukkah needs to have equal time with Christmas."
Rabbi Anson Laytner, executive director of the Greater Seattle Chapter of the American Jewish Committee, said "most Jews support the traditional separation of church and state," and would not want menorahs publicly displayed because they're religious symbols of Hanukkah.
Marc Levy, an attorney in Seattle, said displays of religious symbols on government property have to be looked at through a legal lens. But he wouldn't mind public displays of menorahs at private businesses or shopping malls.
A menorah is a religious symbol, "but nothing more than a symbol and has to be taken as such," he said. "Am I offended if I go to a private shopping mall and all I see is Christmas decorations? I'm not offended. It merely reminds me that I'm a minority religion.
"Would I like to see more Jewish symbols? Sure, but I don't expect it."
What offends him, Levy says, is seeing the dilution of religious symbols — their conversion into secular symbols.
"The idea that you can put up a Christmas tree and say 'happy holidays' to everyone is not respectful of Christianity and not respectful of other religions. ...
"For Christians, I'm sure, it cheapens their symbols. And I'm sure it offends everyone else who doesn't share their symbols because those aren't my holidays."
Carver, the Snohomish resident, said she's upset that Bogomilsky and his attorney threatened a lawsuit. She also doesn't think much of electric menorahs. The flame "is a very special symbol of God's love. An electronic bulb doesn't cut it."
But Bogomilsky said menorahs symbolize freedom, tolerance and joy and that those with bulbs "are clearly a great way of having that message last longer than an hour."
Seattle Times staff reporter Lornet Turnbull contributed to this report. Janet I. Tu: 206-464-2272 or jtu@seattletimes.com.
Dobbs: A tree grows in Seattle
POSTED: 8:22 a.m. EST, December 13, 2006
By Lou Dobbs
CNN
Editor's note: Lou Dobbs' commentary appears every Wednesday on CNN.com
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Merry Christmas! That's right, Merry Christmas. Whether you're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, agnostic, pagan, barbarian or whatever, Merry Christmas!
It's what most of us say in this country come this time of year. It's about who we are, where we are and where we've been. And all the namby-pamby, little sensitive darlings among us who can't handle this verbal assault on their delicate senses should immediately begin seeking emergency psychiatric care.
This week we were treated to the spectacle of an easily offended and highly offensive rabbi who walked into an airport, gazed upon Christmas trees all around him and suddenly was overwhelmed with an immense, and apparently irresistible, urge to sue the management of the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport because nowhere among all the Christmas trees was a single menorah. Rabbi Elazar Bogomilsky of the Chabad-Lubavitch movement of Seattle even delivered to the airport's management a draft of a lawsuit he would file if they didn't sprinkle menorahs around the Christmas trees.
Political correctness in this country reached an entirely new level of absurdity some years ago. But occasionally, and the situation at Sea-Tac is just such an occasion, we exceed ourselves. The militant fundamentalist rabbi so flummoxed Sea-Tac management with his threat and their perceived obligation to be "politically correct" that, rather than think rationally or simply tell him to stuff it, they started hacking away at all those artificial Christmas trees and quickly descended into a public relations nightmare in which they managed to offend reason, cultural values and the vast majority of Americans.
As CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin told me, "The Supreme Court has held since 1984, the famous 'Reindeer Rule,' that if a symbol of Christmas is mostly secular, like a reindeer or a Christmas tree or Santa Claus, that is not a violation of the separation of church and state."
The irony that escaped the rabid rabbi and the timid Sea-Tac management team is that the Christmas tree's likely origin dates back to pre-Christian pagan cultures. The Christmas tree is not by any means a religious symbol, and when we're honest about it, the tree's become a purely commercial symbol more closely associated with shopping, roasting chestnuts and guzzling eggnog than a nativity scene with baby Jesus.
And hang on, Christians, because you're in 21st Century America, and our culture celebrates your holiest day of the year with such insensitive gusto that our economy would suffer a serious setback if your religious sensibilities were as easily offended as those of the litigious rabbi.
More than 140 million shoppers spent an average of about $360 on Black Friday alone, the day after Thanksgiving and the unofficial kickoff to the Christmas shopping season, according to the National Retail Federation. And all those Christmas shoppers are expected to spend nearly a half-trillion dollars this shopping season.
Now if I were a fundamentalist Christian, that might strike me as a little politically incorrect. And I think all of you folks should think about suing somebody. You know, get in the spirit of the season.
This mindless movement of political correctness at all costs is one of the most un-American and crazy twists in our culture as anything we've witnessed. Remember, we're Americans, and we have freedom of speech, that whole life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness thing. Or at least we did.
And I hope you'll celebrate the Christmas season by offending someone. If you're Jewish, how about a hearty "Happy Hanukkah" to a good Christian? If they're offended you've revealed a fool, not such a good Christian and someone you shouldn't waste your expression of good will upon. But get ready for a few robust "Merry Christmas" calls to be thrown your way as well.
The operators of the Seattle-Tacoma airport quickly righted a potentially dreadful wrong. The rabbi decided not to file a suit, Christmas trees have sprung back up throughout the concourse, and no, not a single menorah has been spotted. I can only hope this is the beginning of a major movement in America, one that regards thinking as paramount to phony feelings and heightened self-centered sensitivities. Common sense and judgment should always reign supreme over political correctness, no matter what the current trend.
And, my gosh, even Wal-Mart this year has abandoned its generic, politically correct "Happy Holidays" greeting in favor of "Merry Christmas." I'm starting to think this may be the season to be jolly after all. Ho, ho, ho.
To all, a Merry Christmas. OK, and a Happy Hanukkah, too.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of the writer.