Sorry, but that's a child's excuse. Hezbollah places their weapons/infrastructure within civilian areas for express purpose of ensuring sympathy-generating civilian casualties. They do this because they KNOW Israel will still strike them. If they're daring Israel to kill Lebanese children and Israel goes ahead and does it, I'm not sure how anyone can make a moral arguement for either side.
The word 'still' is not that acurate. There are lots of times when Israel knows civilians would be involved, and doesn't strike back. Other than that, I agree with you.
Israel is fighting a militia that is entrenched in the civilian population.
They ( Hizbullah ) have their fighters, weapons, ammunition, bunkers, homes, families all intertwined there. They use the civilian population as a sheild, as a cover and as pawns in their strategy.
Without a doubt a certain percentage of the civilian population is complicit in their operations.
This strategy, in strategic terms, can be viewed as brilliant. But, this strategy also breaks and ignores dozens of laws and ethics regarding human rights which protect innocent civilians, in the business of war.
Ultimately, this whole mess is a disturbing and sad -man-made disaster.
I don't advocate what Israel is doing and how they are doing it.
While I too hold similar Idealisms, idealisitc notions of everyone simply laying down their arms, are drowned in fantasy, not reality.
But I also have a hard time figuring out any other way for them to approach this. At least not an approach that realistically all sides can agree to and follow through with.
Hizbullah does not want peace and nor will they cease their attacks, if Israel does so.
What Israel is doing is sickening and a downright outrage, but Hizbullah's approach and strategy is equally sickening and in my opinion, even more of an outrage; because they are manipulating and using civilians, specifically as pawns.
The words of some Hizbullah fighters, provided by one of our members:
" Standing at the window, he points to the banana plantations between us and the blue Mediterranean. "I have fought for years in these groves. We used to sit and wait for them [the Israelis] to make a move and then we would hit. They always moved too quickly, too soon."
All over the hills of south Lebanon hundreds of men like Sayed Ali and his comrades are waiting - some in bunkers, some in farm houses - for the Israeli troops to arrive. Sayed Ali and his men spend most of their time in the building where his apartment is, moving only at night.
"We stay put and we don't move till we get our orders, and this is why we are not like any other militia. A militiaman will fire whenever he likes at whatever he likes," explains one of the men, who says he has been involved in firing Katyusha rockets into northern Israel. "We have specific orders. Even when we fire rockets we know when and where [to fire] and each of the men manning the launchers runs to a specific hiding place after firing the rockets."
He says Hizbullah fighters expect the site of a rocket launch to be hit by an Israeli airstrike or shell within 10 to 15 minutes.
Another of the men, who says he is Sayed Ali's brother, explains how Hizbullah teaches its fighters patience: "During our training we spend days in empty buildings without talking to anyone or doing anything. They tell me go and sit in that building, and I go and sit there and wait."
According to Ali, Hizbullah operates as "a state within the state", with its own hospitals, social organisations and social security system. "But we are also an Islamic resistance movement, an indoctrinated army," he adds. "I would go and knock the door at someone and say we need $50,000, he would give me [that] because they trust us."
The fighting force of the organisation is divided into two: the "active" group, whose task is to serve in Hizbullah, and the reserve, or Ta'abi'a, as it is known in Arabic. The active fighters get monthly pay. The reserves are called on only in time of war, and receive bonuses but no regular pay. A third section, the Ansar, comprises people who support or are supported by the organisation.
Ali, the commander of Hizbullah in his village, and his men are part of the active force, and their orders are to wait for further orders. "Hizbullah hasn't even mobilised all its active fighters, and the Israelis are calling their reserve units," he said.
Hizbullah prides itself on its secretiveness and discipline. "We don't take anyone who knocks at our door and says 'I want to join'. We raise our fighters. We take them when they are young kids and raise them to become Hizbullah fighters. Every fighter we have believes that the ultimate form of being is martyrdom." The three men nod their assent.
"Every one of those fighters is a true believer, he has been not only trained to use guns and weapons but [indoctrinated] in the Shia faith and the Husseini beliefs," Ali says.
He and his fellow fighters have been preparing for the latest conflict with the Israelis for years and he acknowledges the support received from Iran.
"When we defeated them in 2000 we did that with [Katyusha] rockets. We had six years to prepare for this day - the Americans are sending laser-guided missiles to the Israelis, what's wrong if the Iranians help us? When the Syrians were here we would get stuff through their supply lines, now it's more difficult."
For Ali and his comrades, the latest conflict is a war of survival not only for Hizbullah but for the whole Shia community. It is not only as a war with Israel, their enemy for decades, but also with the Sunni community. Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt have all expressed fears of Iranian domination over the Middle East.
"If Israel comes out victorious from this conflict, this will be a victory for the Sunnis and they will take the Shia community back in history dozens of years to the time when we were only allowed to work as garbage collectors in this country. The Shia will all die before letting this happen again."
He says that even if the international community calls on Hizbullah to disarm as part of a peace deal, he and his men will not lay down their arms. "This war is episode two in disarming Hizbullah. First they tried to do it through the Lebanese government and the UN. When they failed, the Americans asked the Israelis to do the job."
And even when the battle with the Israelis is over, he adds menacingly, Hizbullah will have other battles to fight. "The real battle is after the end of this war. We will have to settle score with the Lebanese politicians. We also have the best security and intelligence apparatus in this country, and we can reach any of those people who are speaking against us now. Let's finish with the Israelis and then we will settle scores later. "
The conflict runs much deeper than some people may realize. This isn't just about Israel. There is great discrimination, contempt, animosity and violence (always has been) between the different sects of Islam's believers/followers.
Even if Israel picked up and moved the hell out of the Middle East, the violence, hate and ideological crusade by radical, fundamentalist Muslims and their charming, manipulative, intolerant, unaccepting, hypocritical, self-righteous, violent interpretation of Islam-would continue along it's merry march to liberate you and me, from the burden of freedom and individuality.
Just ask Thomas Klocek , former Professor at DePaul University.
The conflict runs much deeper than some people may realize. This isn't just about Israel. There is great discrimination, contempt, animosity and violence (always has been) between the different sects of Islam's believers/followers.
Even if Israel picked up and moved the hell out of the Middle East, the violence, hate and ideological crusade by radical, fundamentalist Muslims and their charming, manipulative, intolerant, unaccepting, hypocritical, self-righteous, violent interpretation of Islam-would continue along it's merry march to free you and me, from the burden of freedom and individuality.
Hezbollah places their weapons/infrastructure within civilian areas for express purpose of ensuring sympathy-generating civilian casualties. They do this because they KNOW Israel will still strike them. If they're daring Israel to kill Lebanese children and Israel goes ahead and does it, I'm not sure how anyone can make a moral arguement for either side.
Exactly.
It is a sickening, disturbing and vomit-inducing strategy.
Neither side deserves defending. Both sides deserve severe criticism and punishment.
In any case, both sides are to blame - Hizbullah for starting this whole nightmare just because, and Israel for over-reacting (though AN action was unavoidable and justified).
Were the two soldiers NOT captured in Lebanon? If so I don't know how you can cry for Israel's right to defend itself when Lebanon gets blasted to hell for doing the same thing on a much, much smaller scale.
this civilians/children slaughter is also a effect of the lack of an immadiate ceasefire decision that could have come out from the rome conference of last wednesday. So, i would point as responsible, not only Israel, but also the USA and the UK, that voted against the ceasefire.
Were the two soldiers NOT captured in Lebanon? If so I don't know how you can cry for Israel's right to defend itself when Lebanon gets blasted to hell for doing the same thing on a much, much smaller scale.
In any case, both sides are to blame - Hizbullah for starting this whole nightmare just because, and Israel for over-reacting (though AN action was unavoidable and justified).
We had every right to act against Hizbullah, period. Not the way we did, but AN act was unavoidable . Please learn how to read and don't put words in my mouth.
Were the two soldiers NOT captured in Lebanon? If so I don't know how you can cry for Israel's right to defend itself when Lebanon gets blasted to hell for doing the same thing on a much, much smaller scale.
I've heard several reports claim that Hizbullah came into Israel and killed eight soldiers and kidnapped two. In Israel.
I've heard several reports claim that Hizbullah came into Israel and killed eight soldiers and kidnapped two. In Israel.
More than several, almost everyone in the media, including arab news channels and even Hizbullah themselfs claimed the same thing, so I don't get why people are still coming up with these twisted facts.
More than several, almost everyone in the media, including arab news channels and even Hizbullah themselfs claimed the same thing, so I don't get why people are still coming up with these twisted facts.
More than several, almost everyone in the media, including arab news channels and even Hizbullah themselfs claimed the same thing, so I don't get why people are still coming up with these twisted facts.
Because it doesn't fit their agenda.
Acknowledging Hizbullah's intrusion into Israel, killing eight Israeli soldiers and kidnapping two; would require them to lay some responsibility on the shoulders of Hizbullah. Apparently, that's something many are allergic to doing.
From what I understand, and you would know better than me. This isn't the first time this has occured, correct? Hizbullah has been in the habit of doing such things (as well as firing rockets into Israel) for a long time now. Long before this recent outburst of violence, correct?
Acknowledging Hizbullah's intrusion into Israel, killing eight Israeli soldiers and kidnapping two; would require them to lay some responsibility on the shoulders of Hizbullah. Apparently, that's something many are allergic to doing.
From what I understand, and you would know better than me. This isn't the first time this has occured, correct? Hizbullah has been in the habit of doing such things (as well as firing rockets into Israel) for a long time now. Long before this recent outburst of violence, correct?
They simply underestimated Israel's tolerance of them this time round.
Israel has been poked and prodded for years.
They are fed up.
As they should be.
Poke them enough, long enough, hard enough, any group is gonna get fed up with it.
Ironic that many of the "reasons" Israel has to do what its done, are the same reasons that many Anti-America people out there give for why America "deserves what it got".
What is good for the goose, is rarely if ever good for the gander 'round here.
They simply underestimated Israel's tolerance of them this time round.
Israel has been poked and prodded for years.
They are fed up.
.
they were only just kicked out of lebenon. they are still subjecting the palistinians to daily torment.... but yeah sure... i guess they need to kick out for once....
are you implying that there are no other ways to deal with this situation...?
lets expand on this line of thinking...let's say a bank is robbed, the armed robbers are caught inside the bank with 10 civilians....would you support the killing of everyone inside bank..?
you're not really expanding this line of thinking, you're changing all of the circumstances and making it completely different. i'll answer your question anyway...i wouldn't support killing everyone inside your bank scenario.
now to the real issue at hand. how does one deal with terrorists hiding and launching their weapons within a civilian population? are there options other than blasting wherever one sees such weapons being stored and used? sure. record these actions and broadcast them for all the world to see. do not immediately strike back militarily. open a corridor for civilians to leave the area. build a case for international support and intervention.
the use of civilian shields is not anything new...and is specifically forbade in Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. if the world did not support and intervene whence explicit evidence has been presented that a terrorist force is actively using human shields...then we're all doomed.
ds
And no one sings me lullabyes
And no one makes me close my eyes
So I throw the windows wide
And call to you across the sky....
they were only just kicked out of lebenon. they are still subjecting the palistinians to daily torment.... but yeah sure... i guess they need to kick out for once....
Israel gives Gaza to the Palestians, yet they are still attacked by them. Israel has been the one giving in, and they get nothing in return.
I'm not taking sides on this, mostly because of the fact that I don't see where either side can claim any kind of justification or moral high ground after the shit they've both pulled.
"Well, they did it too!!"
Sorry, but that's a child's excuse. Hezbollah places their weapons/infrastructure within civilian areas for express purpose of ensuring sympathy-generating civilian casualties. They do this because they KNOW Israel will still strike them. If they're daring Israel to kill Lebanese children and Israel goes ahead and does it, I'm not sure how anyone can make a moral arguement for either side.
Then what do you do? They keep firing missiles while hiding behind civilians. They keep coming across the border and killing Israeli soldiers and then retreating behind their civilians. What does Israel do? Talk? These countries hate Israel, and want Israel's destruction. This is not about money. This is about land and religion. So what is Israel to do besides fight back every once in a while and try to disarm its enemies?
Israel gives Gaza to the Palestians, yet they are still attacked by them. Israel has been the one giving in, and they get nothing in return.
Israel gives gaza? gives? Gaza is not theirs to give. lets not even mention the huge land grab with the security border. how about witholding taxes from the govt becuase hamas won a legitimate election?
Israel gives gaza? gives? Gaza is not theirs to give. lets not even mention the huge land grab with the security border. how about witholding taxes from the govt becuase hamas won a legitimate election?
But it's Palestine's to have? The point is that Israel has always been open to negotiation and has been willing to give, while nobody else has.
let's see....innocent people + bad people in the same area....it's pretty much the same thing....but if you can't expand your thinking, that's ok, just blow it off as a stupid question....that's what the simple do when hard questions are asked....
another question...why do you have to call me a "nut job"...what's that about...? I asked you a simple question that you can't understand...and that makes me a nut job....:rolleyes:
calling you a "nut job" is an ad hominem attack...which is a shame because it's not an honorable tactic. having said that, your bank analogy is not at all "pretty much the same thing" as terrorists hiding and using weapons in a civilian population. "innocent people + bad people in the same area" describes a whole slew of situations...but doesn't incorporate intent, actions, in-actions, and repercussions of actions or in-actions.
ds
And no one sings me lullabyes
And no one makes me close my eyes
So I throw the windows wide
And call to you across the sky....
you cannot negotiate with terrorist...they have one goal in mind and that is to eliminate a certain group of people
sorry but you cannot sit down at a table with a peace sign and some kool aid and ask them to stop doing what they are doing because they probably have a bomb strapped to them while they are sitting at the table trying to "negotiate"
or we could just turn away and let Hezbollah do what they do and just eliminate everyone, how does that sound?
or we could just turn away and let Hezbollah do what they do and just eliminate everyone, how does that sound?
Um, that's what most on here want actually. They want the destruction of Israel. It's obvious, because every time Israel is attacked, it is ignored on this board. And the only time Israel-Palestine is mentioned is when Israel defends herself. From that I can only read that most on here want the destruction of Israel, and then America.
you cannot negotiate with terrorist...they have one goal in mind and that is to eliminate a certain group of people
we (the uk) negotiated quite well with the IRA and now it looks like we have a lasting peace with the IRA activly disarming. they were a group everyone was saying needed to be destroyed, a group that would never negotiate.
we (the uk) negotiated quite well with the IRA and now it looks like we have a lasting peace with the IRA activly disarming. they were a group everyone was saying needed to be destroyed, a group that would never negotiate.
but we had an agreemant in 2000, and Hizbullah, like the IRA, were told to get rid of their arsenal. IRA did it, Hizbullah did the opposite and gained more weapons. They are keep telling their goal is to destroy everyone who is opposing them, including Lebanese politicians & journalists (as they did before).
What really scares me is the fact we can kill them all, but we can't kill their evil ideology.
Noone knows wtf you mean. But Im sure its reaching and grasping at straws, w/e it is you just said. Lay off the cannibis, you're getting progressively less coherent. :(
Me becoming progressivly less coherent to you is actually a compliment. Thanks. Who verifies each dead body as to who they actually were, what they believed, how they acted when they were alive? Then how do they seperate the numbers from that as who is actually hezzbollah?
btw are you a some kind zesty little online "whipper snapper", who has some troubled cause to convey that no one knows about yet?
Then what do you do? They keep firing missiles while hiding behind civilians. They keep coming across the border and killing Israeli soldiers and then retreating behind their civilians. What does Israel do? Talk? These countries hate Israel, and want Israel's destruction. This is not about money. This is about land and religion. So what is Israel to do besides fight back every once in a while and try to disarm its enemies?
I don't have an answer for that one. I don't think anyone here does. I know that Israel will continue to do what it's been doing. What I was trying to say is that I find it funny (and not funny ha-ha) when both sides of this conflict claim that they are morally justified when they do these things. When you're killing civilians, you lose any and all claims to the moral high ground, and I don't want to hear that "Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields" bullshit, either. Israel KNOWS that Hezbollah does this, yet they continue to conduct airstrikes in areas with high civilian populations. They launch a strike, civilians die, and then an Israeli military official reminds us that Hezbollah's bases of operation are usually located within areas that hold lots of civilians, and that the loss of innocent life is tragic, but it's Hezbollah's fault etc. It's just a horrible neverending cycle.
"Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
They bomb the building where Hezbollah were hiding, they just used a blast powerfull enough to blow the whole neighbourhood, fucking criminals. "It was a huge mistake" Oh, sorry, i just killed you, it was a mistake, fuckers...
"L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Comments
The word 'still' is not that acurate. There are lots of times when Israel knows civilians would be involved, and doesn't strike back. Other than that, I agree with you.
They ( Hizbullah ) have their fighters, weapons, ammunition, bunkers, homes, families all intertwined there. They use the civilian population as a sheild, as a cover and as pawns in their strategy.
Without a doubt a certain percentage of the civilian population is complicit in their operations.
This strategy, in strategic terms, can be viewed as brilliant. But, this strategy also breaks and ignores dozens of laws and ethics regarding human rights which protect innocent civilians, in the business of war.
Ultimately, this whole mess is a disturbing and sad -man-made disaster.
I don't advocate what Israel is doing and how they are doing it.
While I too hold similar Idealisms, idealisitc notions of everyone simply laying down their arms, are drowned in fantasy, not reality.
But I also have a hard time figuring out any other way for them to approach this. At least not an approach that realistically all sides can agree to and follow through with.
Hizbullah does not want peace and nor will they cease their attacks, if Israel does so.
What Israel is doing is sickening and a downright outrage, but Hizbullah's approach and strategy is equally sickening and in my opinion, even more of an outrage; because they are manipulating and using civilians, specifically as pawns.
The words of some Hizbullah fighters, provided by one of our members:
" Standing at the window, he points to the banana plantations between us and the blue Mediterranean. "I have fought for years in these groves. We used to sit and wait for them [the Israelis] to make a move and then we would hit. They always moved too quickly, too soon."
All over the hills of south Lebanon hundreds of men like Sayed Ali and his comrades are waiting - some in bunkers, some in farm houses - for the Israeli troops to arrive. Sayed Ali and his men spend most of their time in the building where his apartment is, moving only at night.
"We stay put and we don't move till we get our orders, and this is why we are not like any other militia. A militiaman will fire whenever he likes at whatever he likes," explains one of the men, who says he has been involved in firing Katyusha rockets into northern Israel. "We have specific orders. Even when we fire rockets we know when and where [to fire] and each of the men manning the launchers runs to a specific hiding place after firing the rockets."
He says Hizbullah fighters expect the site of a rocket launch to be hit by an Israeli airstrike or shell within 10 to 15 minutes.
Another of the men, who says he is Sayed Ali's brother, explains how Hizbullah teaches its fighters patience: "During our training we spend days in empty buildings without talking to anyone or doing anything. They tell me go and sit in that building, and I go and sit there and wait."
According to Ali, Hizbullah operates as "a state within the state", with its own hospitals, social organisations and social security system. "But we are also an Islamic resistance movement, an indoctrinated army," he adds. "I would go and knock the door at someone and say we need $50,000, he would give me [that] because they trust us."
The fighting force of the organisation is divided into two: the "active" group, whose task is to serve in Hizbullah, and the reserve, or Ta'abi'a, as it is known in Arabic. The active fighters get monthly pay. The reserves are called on only in time of war, and receive bonuses but no regular pay. A third section, the Ansar, comprises people who support or are supported by the organisation.
Ali, the commander of Hizbullah in his village, and his men are part of the active force, and their orders are to wait for further orders. "Hizbullah hasn't even mobilised all its active fighters, and the Israelis are calling their reserve units," he said.
Hizbullah prides itself on its secretiveness and discipline. "We don't take anyone who knocks at our door and says 'I want to join'. We raise our fighters. We take them when they are young kids and raise them to become Hizbullah fighters. Every fighter we have believes that the ultimate form of being is martyrdom." The three men nod their assent.
"Every one of those fighters is a true believer, he has been not only trained to use guns and weapons but [indoctrinated] in the Shia faith and the Husseini beliefs," Ali says.
He and his fellow fighters have been preparing for the latest conflict with the Israelis for years and he acknowledges the support received from Iran.
"When we defeated them in 2000 we did that with [Katyusha] rockets. We had six years to prepare for this day - the Americans are sending laser-guided missiles to the Israelis, what's wrong if the Iranians help us? When the Syrians were here we would get stuff through their supply lines, now it's more difficult."
For Ali and his comrades, the latest conflict is a war of survival not only for Hizbullah but for the whole Shia community. It is not only as a war with Israel, their enemy for decades, but also with the Sunni community. Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt have all expressed fears of Iranian domination over the Middle East.
"If Israel comes out victorious from this conflict, this will be a victory for the Sunnis and they will take the Shia community back in history dozens of years to the time when we were only allowed to work as garbage collectors in this country. The Shia will all die before letting this happen again."
He says that even if the international community calls on Hizbullah to disarm as part of a peace deal, he and his men will not lay down their arms. "This war is episode two in disarming Hizbullah. First they tried to do it through the Lebanese government and the UN. When they failed, the Americans asked the Israelis to do the job."
And even when the battle with the Israelis is over, he adds menacingly, Hizbullah will have other battles to fight. "The real battle is after the end of this war. We will have to settle score with the Lebanese politicians. We also have the best security and intelligence apparatus in this country, and we can reach any of those people who are speaking against us now. Let's finish with the Israelis and then we will settle scores later. "
The conflict runs much deeper than some people may realize. This isn't just about Israel. There is great discrimination, contempt, animosity and violence (always has been) between the different sects of Islam's believers/followers.
Even if Israel picked up and moved the hell out of the Middle East, the violence, hate and ideological crusade by radical, fundamentalist Muslims and their charming, manipulative, intolerant, unaccepting, hypocritical, self-righteous, violent interpretation of Islam-would continue along it's merry march to liberate you and me, from the burden of freedom and individuality.
Just ask Thomas Klocek , former Professor at DePaul University.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=11776
http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/5671.html
http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_21230237.shtml
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=News&id=2815028
True True True.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Exactly.
It is a sickening, disturbing and vomit-inducing strategy.
Neither side deserves defending. Both sides deserve severe criticism and punishment.
Were the two soldiers NOT captured in Lebanon? If so I don't know how you can cry for Israel's right to defend itself when Lebanon gets blasted to hell for doing the same thing on a much, much smaller scale.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
www.amnesty.org.uk
the two soldiers were captured in Israel, after Hizbullah cross the Israeli border.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Israel-Lebanon_conflict
We had every right to act against Hizbullah, period. Not the way we did, but AN act was unavoidable . Please learn how to read and don't put words in my mouth.
I've heard several reports claim that Hizbullah came into Israel and killed eight soldiers and kidnapped two. In Israel.
More than several, almost everyone in the media, including arab news channels and even Hizbullah themselfs claimed the same thing, so I don't get why people are still coming up with these twisted facts.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Because it doesn't fit their agenda.
Acknowledging Hizbullah's intrusion into Israel, killing eight Israeli soldiers and kidnapping two; would require them to lay some responsibility on the shoulders of Hizbullah. Apparently, that's something many are allergic to doing.
From what I understand, and you would know better than me. This isn't the first time this has occured, correct? Hizbullah has been in the habit of doing such things (as well as firing rockets into Israel) for a long time now. Long before this recent outburst of violence, correct?
They simply underestimated Israel's tolerance of them this time round.
Israel has been poked and prodded for years.
They are fed up.
As they should be.
Poke them enough, long enough, hard enough, any group is gonna get fed up with it.
Ironic that many of the "reasons" Israel has to do what its done, are the same reasons that many Anti-America people out there give for why America "deserves what it got".
What is good for the goose, is rarely if ever good for the gander 'round here.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
they were only just kicked out of lebenon. they are still subjecting the palistinians to daily torment.... but yeah sure... i guess they need to kick out for once....
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
It's easy to paint them as strictly victims, but that wouldn't be accurate.
you're not really expanding this line of thinking, you're changing all of the circumstances and making it completely different. i'll answer your question anyway...i wouldn't support killing everyone inside your bank scenario.
now to the real issue at hand. how does one deal with terrorists hiding and launching their weapons within a civilian population? are there options other than blasting wherever one sees such weapons being stored and used? sure. record these actions and broadcast them for all the world to see. do not immediately strike back militarily. open a corridor for civilians to leave the area. build a case for international support and intervention.
the use of civilian shields is not anything new...and is specifically forbade in Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. if the world did not support and intervene whence explicit evidence has been presented that a terrorist force is actively using human shields...then we're all doomed.
ds
And no one makes me close my eyes
So I throw the windows wide
And call to you across the sky....
Israel gives Gaza to the Palestians, yet they are still attacked by them. Israel has been the one giving in, and they get nothing in return.
Then what do you do? They keep firing missiles while hiding behind civilians. They keep coming across the border and killing Israeli soldiers and then retreating behind their civilians. What does Israel do? Talk? These countries hate Israel, and want Israel's destruction. This is not about money. This is about land and religion. So what is Israel to do besides fight back every once in a while and try to disarm its enemies?
Israel gives gaza? gives? Gaza is not theirs to give. lets not even mention the huge land grab with the security border. how about witholding taxes from the govt becuase hamas won a legitimate election?
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
But it's Palestine's to have? The point is that Israel has always been open to negotiation and has been willing to give, while nobody else has.
calling you a "nut job" is an ad hominem attack...which is a shame because it's not an honorable tactic. having said that, your bank analogy is not at all "pretty much the same thing" as terrorists hiding and using weapons in a civilian population. "innocent people + bad people in the same area" describes a whole slew of situations...but doesn't incorporate intent, actions, in-actions, and repercussions of actions or in-actions.
ds
And no one makes me close my eyes
So I throw the windows wide
And call to you across the sky....
hardly. both sides are guilty of being rather closed-minded, unco-opoperative.
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
sorry but you cannot sit down at a table with a peace sign and some kool aid and ask them to stop doing what they are doing because they probably have a bomb strapped to them while they are sitting at the table trying to "negotiate"
or we could just turn away and let Hezbollah do what they do and just eliminate everyone, how does that sound?
Um, that's what most on here want actually. They want the destruction of Israel. It's obvious, because every time Israel is attacked, it is ignored on this board. And the only time Israel-Palestine is mentioned is when Israel defends herself. From that I can only read that most on here want the destruction of Israel, and then America.
and thats what is going to happen if people keep sympathizing with Hezbollah and other terrorist...
what is it going to take for people to get it? a terrorist act in their back yard?
we (the uk) negotiated quite well with the IRA and now it looks like we have a lasting peace with the IRA activly disarming. they were a group everyone was saying needed to be destroyed, a group that would never negotiate.
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
but we had an agreemant in 2000, and Hizbullah, like the IRA, were told to get rid of their arsenal. IRA did it, Hizbullah did the opposite and gained more weapons. They are keep telling their goal is to destroy everyone who is opposing them, including Lebanese politicians & journalists (as they did before).
What really scares me is the fact we can kill them all, but we can't kill their evil ideology.
ds
And no one makes me close my eyes
So I throw the windows wide
And call to you across the sky....
Me becoming progressivly less coherent to you is actually a compliment. Thanks. Who verifies each dead body as to who they actually were, what they believed, how they acted when they were alive? Then how do they seperate the numbers from that as who is actually hezzbollah?
btw are you a some kind zesty little online "whipper snapper", who has some troubled cause to convey that no one knows about yet?
I don't have an answer for that one. I don't think anyone here does. I know that Israel will continue to do what it's been doing. What I was trying to say is that I find it funny (and not funny ha-ha) when both sides of this conflict claim that they are morally justified when they do these things. When you're killing civilians, you lose any and all claims to the moral high ground, and I don't want to hear that "Hezbollah uses civilians as human shields" bullshit, either. Israel KNOWS that Hezbollah does this, yet they continue to conduct airstrikes in areas with high civilian populations. They launch a strike, civilians die, and then an Israeli military official reminds us that Hezbollah's bases of operation are usually located within areas that hold lots of civilians, and that the loss of innocent life is tragic, but it's Hezbollah's fault etc. It's just a horrible neverending cycle.
They bomb the building where Hezbollah were hiding, they just used a blast powerfull enough to blow the whole neighbourhood, fucking criminals. "It was a huge mistake" Oh, sorry, i just killed you, it was a mistake, fuckers...
-Jean-Jacques Rousseau