US to Pakistan: "We will bomb you back to the stone age"

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

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So... if in the 'War On Drugs'... the DEA swoops down on your neighborhood and burns down a cocaine safe house next to yours and in the ensuing gunfight, some of their stray bullets strike your kids and kills them... and the fire spreads to your roof and burns your house down... you wouldn't have a problem with the collateral damage because now you neighborhood is clear of one more drug dealer? You kids are only collateral damage and their lives don't mean anything in the larger 'War On Drugs'... right?

your missing the point. did those DEA officers kill my kid on purpose? did they target my kid and kill him based on the DEA policy of killing innocent civillians?


the answer is no

miller8966

lol i think its great how we told them to follow us.

Open

jlew24asu wrote:

im glad you think its funny. so a sucide bomber killing civillians is justified becuase after all its AMERICAS fault they are there in the first place.?

this website proves nothing. how can you prove these pics are from US bombs? we use presicion GPS guided bombs and very specific enemy targets. yes there is collaroral damage and civillains are killed and hurt. but NOT on purpose is my point. you dont get it do you. terrorists purposely find as many innocent civillians as it can and blow them up. American does not.

Actually i was laughing at your comments, not the dead people, thought you'd be able to pick that up, guess not. You dont get it, the precision bombs dont work as well as you think. You can tell me all you want that soldiers dont intend to kill civilians, it's true for the most part. You can't tell me that this goverment that's based on "moral values" should not be called out for what it's done. 43000 people dead, thats a baseball stadium!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/dora.htm

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/28/eveningnews/main555948.shtml

At Saddam's Bombed Palace

DORA FARMS, Iraq, May 28, 2003

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Wreckage of the Iraqi presidential compound at Dora Farms bombed on the opening day of the Iraq war. (CBS)






Quote

"When we came out here the primary thing they were looking for was an underground facility, or bodies, forensics. And basically what they saw was giant holes created. No underground facilities, no bodies."
Col. Tim Madere

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(CBS) The mystery of what happened to Saddam Hussein begins at a palace compound called Dora Farms on the southern outskirts of Baghdad. The war began here ten weeks ago when the U.S. dropped bombs and cruise missiles in an attempt to kill the Iraqi dictator.

CBS News became the first news organization to visit Dora Farms.

CBS National Security Correspondent David Martin found that U.S. intelligence was wrong about one crucial fact and the strike was not a complete success despite Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's March 21 statement that "the strike on that leadership headquarters was successful."

And despite comments by the Air Force general who commanded the strike that if Saddam was there he was probably killed.

No one has searched Dora Farms more carefully than Tim Madere, a U.S. Army colonel assigned the task of searching sensitive sites.

Madere says no bodies have been found here.

The Air Force dropped four 2,000-pound bombs on the site because intelligence said there was a bunker complex hidden beneath the buildings. But Madere has yet to find it.

The compound has been searched three times – once by the CIA and twice by Madere, trying to find Saddam's DNA.

"When we came out here the primary thing they were looking for was an underground facility, or bodies, forensics," says Madere. "And basically what they saw was giant holes created. No underground facilities, no bodies."

Every structure in the compound was destroyed, except one building – the main palace – hidden behind a wall topped by electrified barbed wire. It's a shambles, windows have been blown out, but it is not destroyed.

Madere says a person in the house "could have survived."

One weapon clearly missed the compound. Others landed just outside the wall, destroying other buildings.

This doesn't solve the mystery of what happened to Saddam, but the clues at Dora Farms leave no doubt he could have survived.

Look at the last two paragraphs, and this is was decapitation strike too. What it doesnt mention is the civilians that were killed as result of this. You can learn more if you watch "Why we Fight" it's available for rental.

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

your missing the point. did those DEA officers kill my kid on purpose? did they target my kid and kill him based on the DEA policy of killing innocent civillians?


the answer is no

...
The point is colateral damage. The terrorists neighbors aren't targeting their neighbor... they live in close proximity. The laser guided munition will hit the specific house... but, will that house be the only one affected? Bombs go **BOOM** and shit flies apart and the bomb doesn't know where the property line ends.
The DEA Officers didn't target your kids... the laser guided munition didn't target the neighbor's house... both are acceptable collateral damage? If the end result was your dead kids... you are basically saying you would accept it as an accident, because those things happen in a war... whether it be a war on terror or a war on drugs.

Cosmo

miller8966 wrote:

lol i think its great how we told them to follow us.

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What is so great about that?
We threaten them to help us.. then, we shovel YOUR tax dollars into their pockets to look for someone they see as a hero. Do you seriously think that makes any sense?

Collin

jlew24asu wrote:

im glad you think its funny. so a sucide bomber killing civillians is justified becuase after all its AMERICAS fault they are there in the first place.?

this website proves nothing. how can you prove these pics are from US bombs? we use presicion GPS guided bombs and very specific enemy targets. yes there is collaroral damage and civillains are killed and hurt. but NOT on purpose is my point. you dont get it do you. terrorists purposely find as many innocent civillians as it can and blow them up. American does not.

Oh yes that makes the US so much better... sure there's collatoral damage (innocent people killed, children and women too) but it's not on purpose, I mean wow that's way better...

miller8966

Cosmo wrote:

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What is so great about that?
We threaten them to help us.. then, we shovel YOUR tax dollars into their pockets to look for someone they see as a hero. Do you seriously think that makes any sense?

We used them to take out the islamic government of the taliban...i see nothign wrong with that

Open

miller8966 wrote:

We used them to take out the islamic government of the taliban...i see nothign wrong with that

What's wrong with that is when they turn they eyes when they're intelligence finds a terrorist b/c they were bullied.

Collin

BarkingDogs wrote:

Buddy, i'm all for stomping the crap out of the terrorists...but we've screwed it up because everybody is too damn worried about prisoner torture and civilian deaths...we should be letting the german sheppards chew on the prisoner's nuts like play toys until they cough up intel....but o no, cant do that...thats inhumane..i didnt notice anything humane about 9/11....we need to bomb them back to the stone age..just as promised to pakistan...and then pull the hell out...and if they screw with us again...then we dont send in troops, we just carpet bomb the whole country and put up a walmart!

Well keep in mind terrorists are fighting a war, so don't come crying when they chop your brother's head off, when they murder your wife and kids or bomb a public building near you...
It's a war for both sides so the same rules apply...

Cosmo

miller8966 wrote:

We used them to take out the islamic government of the taliban...i see nothign wrong with that

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HUH??? What war with the Taliban in Afghanistan were you watching?
Pakistan didn't do SHIT in Afghanistan. In Pakistan, people named their new born sons, 'Usama'. And threatening them into joining us... is that the definition of the 'Coalition of the Willing'?
You really need to pay closer attention.

miller8966

Cosmo wrote:

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HUH??? What war were you watching?
Pakistan didn't do SHIT in Afghanistan. In Pakistan, people named their new born sons, 'Usama'. And threatening them into joining us... is that the definition of the 'Coalition of the Willing'?
You really need to pay closer attention.

Umm pakisatan was used for strategic purposes...u didnt know that?

miller8966

Collin wrote:

Well keep in mind terrorists are fighting a war, so don't come crying when they chop your brother's head off, when they murder your wife and kids or bomb a public building near you...
It's a war for both sides so the same rules apply...

Same way i feel about haditha

Cosmo

miller8966 wrote:

Umm pakisatan was used for strategic purposes...u didnt know that?

...
You can't make just up shit... it don't work that way.
What 'Strategic Purposes'?
Wait.. we set up Command and Control Centers there, right? Strike forces staged there? Air bases used?
Oh, that's right... nothing. That's a good strategy... if you're in the war between two morons.

Collin

miller8966 wrote:

Same way i feel about haditha

I don't agree with that way of war... because of several reasons.

lukin2006

Commy wrote:

I think the United States is involved in too many world issues as it is...it should step back and let people decide their own fate. They have a pretty shitty track record when it comes to that sort of thing.

In many ways the US is damned if they don't and damned if it does, if it were to walk away from all the world issue's and problems in the world they would suffer immense critism, similar to the critism they are recieving now for being to involved.

As far as the Muslim Terrorist go, I personally believe they want the whole world to convert to Muslim, they basically have said that a few weeks back when the al quaida number 2 guy called on Americans to convert.

As far as I'm concerned, practice your religion however you want, just don't preach about, because religion is mostly to blame for far too many problems.

miller8966

Cosmo wrote:

...
You can't make just up shit... it don't work that way.
What 'Strategic Purposes'?
Wait.. we set up Command and Control Centers there, right? Strike forces staged there? Air bases used?
Oh, that's right... nothing. That's a good strategy... if you're in the war between two morons.

Current Developments

Already events are moving fast. On Thursday, September 13, Pakistan closed its airspace for several hours grounding all commercial flights. Speculation is rife that this might have been done to enable the United States to prepare to deploy a small group of forces at northern military bases in Pakistan. A day earlier, on September 12, U.S. Army General Tommy Franks, commander-in-chief of U.S. Central Command, arrived in Pakistan to discuss intelligence cooperation and possible military action. At the same time, Lt. General Mahmood Ahmed, chief of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence, met with Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Furthermore, reportedly, Pakistan has frozen the accounts of the Taliban, has deployed an estimated 45,000 troops on high alert along the border with Afghanistan, and has provided updated information on Bin Laden's whereabouts. The United States has deployed two carrier battle groups in theater, which normally include fighter-bombers, and nuclear-powered attack submarines, battle cruisers, and destroyers armed with land-attack cruise missiles. And, for their part, the Taliban apparently are moving into battle positions.

Open

beemster wrote:

In many ways the US is damned if they don't and damned if it does, if it were to walk away from all the world issue's and problems in the world they would suffer immense critism, similar to the critism they are recieving now for being to involved.

As far as the Muslim Terrorist go, I personally believe they want the whole world to convert to Muslim, they basically have said that a few weeks back when the al quaida number 2 guy called on Americans to convert.

As far as I'm concerned, practice your religion however you want, just don't preach about, because religion is mostly to blame for far too many problems.

I agree with you, the problem with some people on this board (the extremist) is that they cant differntiate between muslim and muslim extremist.

BarkingDogs

Cosmo wrote:

...
The point is colateral damage. The terrorists neighbors aren't targeting their neighbor... they live in close proximity. The laser guided munition will hit the specific house... but, will that house be the only one affected? Bombs go **BOOM** and shit flies apart and the bomb doesn't know where the property line ends.
The DEA Officers didn't target your kids... the laser guided munition didn't target the neighbor's house... both are acceptable collateral damage? If the end result was your dead kids... you are basically saying you would accept it as an accident, because those things happen in a war... whether it be a war on terror or a war on drugs.

If I'm not mistaken, we have been dropping leaflets letting friendlies know what is coming...If they choose to stay or dont give up an accurate location of known terrorists and they catch some schrapnel...then thats sad, but its acceptable...as far as the war on drugs, i have worked as a medic on a police swat team and if a raid is going to take place and there are friendlies (neighbors) in close proximity to the strike zone, they are removed if possible prior to the mission being undertaken, if possible. generally crack houses arent just set ablaze...there is usally a standoff with the bad guys before any type of less than lethal weapon is used that may start a fire...in the interim....neighbors are usually removed to safety. just a couple of tidbits of info...

darkcrow

beemster wrote:

In many ways the US is damned if they don't and damned if it does, if it were to walk away from all the world issue's and problems in the world they would suffer immense critism, similar to the critism they are recieving now for being to involved.

As far as the Muslim Terrorist go, I personally believe they want the whole world to convert to Muslim, they basically have said that a few weeks back when the al quaida number 2 guy called on Americans to convert.

As far as I'm concerned, practice your religion however you want, just don't preach about, because religion is mostly to blame for far too many problems.

i think a lot people realise that america needs to be part of world issues, its just how they do it. americans helping by pressuring the sudanese govt to let un peacekeeprs go in to protect the people of darfur is a great use of their influence/power... the us inventing inteligence and lying about a countries links to al quida is a great example of what the us should not be doing.

i think also the us needs to stop having double standards. it supports kuwait which until very recently totally banned women from voting. it is only now that they can vote in a very limited way on few issues/elections.
if the us wants to promote democracy, start with its friends. universal sufferage should be promoted first to your friends and then to the world.

Cosmo

BarkingDogs wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, we have been dropping leaflets letting friendlies know what is coming...If they choose to stay or dont give up an accurate location of known terrorists and they catch some schrapnel...then thats sad, but its acceptable...as far as the war on drugs, i have worked as a medic on a police swat team and if a raid is going to take place and there are friendlies (neighbors) in close proximity to the strike zone, they are removed if possible prior to the mission being undertaken, if possible. generally crack houses arent just set ablaze...there is usally a standoff with the bad guys before any type of less than lethal weapon is used that may start a fire...in the interim....neighbors are usually removed to safety. just a couple of tidbits of info...

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Well, no wonder the shit ain't working over there. Has anyone in charge over there ever thought that maybe one of those leaflets were picked up and read by the person or persons we are targeting? if there's no one in the house, why even bother to blow it up? Why not just say, "Dear Terrorist... we will be dropping by to kill you on Saturday, 23Sept2006, sometime between the hours of 8:00 A.M. and 3:00 P.M. Standard Baghdad Time. Please, be sure to be at home so we can insure that your death will occur. Have a nice day". No wonder they're runnig amok over there.
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As for the DEA thing... it was a scenario to illustrate a point that collateral damage in important only if the collaterally damaged is your kid's head. I don't care if it's their military or our military or my police... if one of their weapons kills my family, even if it's an accident that occurs in the suppression of a criminal event... I'm getting upset and I'll be wanting some answers... answers that contain truth.