"The jobs Americans won't do"

he still stands

Cosmo wrote:

...
Only those of us whom have chosen a career path in the chicken slaughterhouse profession or us professional dish washers.

lol

Smellyman2

This thread is reminding me of how retarded republicans have become.

know1

unsung wrote:

Define 'them'.

Anyone who wants to be a citizen who isn't one currently.

know1

Smellyman wrote:

This thread is reminding me of how retarded republicans have become.

Or how hypocritical the Dems have become.

know1

gabers wrote:

I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading. I've heard it so many times. The reality is, they'll do jobs that we won't do for such low pay. I'm quite sure you'd get more gringos, blacks, asians, indians, whatever to "do the jobs the Mexicans do" if they were paid a decent wage. So again, I blame the employers hiring these people every bit as much as the illegal workers and totally agree with the sentiment that the employers should be held accountable.

In my opinion, if somebody will do the job (and do it well enough for your satisfaction) then it's a decent wage.

know1

decides2dream wrote:

again, exactly.

i never quite understood what the problem is there? obviously, these people are living and working here anyway....so why NOT make the process easier so they can be contributing citizens, pay taxes, not be a drain on services, etc.

I think a part of it is that people can use the "illegal" stigma to justify their public racism.

Cosmo

know1 wrote:

I think a part of it is that people can use the "illegal" stigma to justify their public racism.

...
And what makes them 'illegal'?
Lack of sufficient paperwork.
...
So, really... to solve the problem... have them fill out the paperwork and sign the forms... then, everyone (including Lou Dobbs) will automagically be okay with it and finally shut the fuck up about it already?
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How about we try approaching this 'problem' from a humanitarian point of view. The whole Wall thing is too much like something the former Soviet Union would do. You'd think we'd figure out some way to make this work... for everyone.

know1

Cosmo wrote:

...
And what makes them 'illegal'?
Lack of sufficient paperwork.
...
So, really... to solve the problem... have them fill out the paperwork and sign the forms... then, everyone (including Lou Dobbs) will automagically be okay with it and finally shut the fuck up about it already?
...
How about we try approaching this 'problem' from a humanitarian point of view. The whole Wall thing is too much like something the former Soviet Union would do. You'd think we'd figure out some way to make this work... for everyone.

Uh...we might be on the same side here. I'm basically in favor of people puttingt their signature on a document at the border and becoming a citizen. The easier and faster, the better, IMO.

jhinkle1114

gabers wrote:

I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading.

It partly is and partly isn't.

A big part of the issue is that blue collar, manual labor has been stigmatized in the US. Not as many people in younger generations are willing to do it versus past generations, even for a decent wage. People want the nice desk job. And I'm guilty of it, I have a Master's degree and will have my Ph D this year.

Thus many employers have a hard time finding regular American's to fill their positions.

Some of my family works in construction and constantly complain of having problems finding people who work hard enough and often say the Hispanics work much harder--not illegals per say, but just Hispanic immigrants period. Of course there are exceptions and they have hard working whites, African-Americans etc., but among younger hires they say it's hard to find white or black young men who will work as hard and without complaing vs. the hispanics.

Factor that in with the cheap labor offered by the illegals, and its easy to see how many employer's are drawn to them. Too many American's are lazy and bitch about doing manual labor. Which drives me nuts. If you don't want to do manual labor, then get an education!

Cosmo

know1 wrote:

Uh...we might be on the same side here. I'm basically in favor of people puttingt their signature on a document at the border and becoming a citizen. The easier and faster, the better, IMO.

...
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.

know1

Cosmo wrote:

...
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.

No - I don't think that those folks (Lou Dobbs, etc) would be happy with that. But from my perspective, it takes away the one thing they think they can hide their racism behind - that those folks are "illegal".

And you're right. I really don't care if they want to become citizens or not. I'd be happy with just letting them work here if they choose to. I respect their willingness to do what it takes to make a better life for themselves.

CorporateWhore

mammasan wrote:

I have no problem with the operation, but I do find it sad that the illegals where rounded up and shipped off leaving family members in limbo while to assholes who hired them got to go home that night to their loved ones. Both should have been treated the same in my opinion.

Agreed. Deport the CEOs as well.

gabers

Kel Varnsen wrote:

But how exactly do you define a decent wage? Personally I think if you are doing something repetitive and super easy like bolting a wheel on a car, maybe you shouldn't be making $25-$30 bucks an hour plus benefits and a retirement plan. Now if you can support your family on much less then more power to you.

Decent being at the bare minimum, ummm, minimum wage. Which is enough if you share an apartment with a bunch of other working adults but not to raise a family on, for sure. When these illegals come here and work for $20 for a full day of hard work that is not a fair wage. Not to them or any American citizen that wants the job.

gabers

Cosmo wrote:

...
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.

Good points. But a lot do want to become American citizens. This is the Shangra La. The land of opportunity. I've talked to so many folks from all over the world who came to the U.S. for these reasons. I should say this is their vision of America. Many become disillusioned after a few years of working dead end jobs, but many of those with educations and profitable careers love this country more than a lot of "us Americans" do. I suppose that's how it's always been.

godpt3

Cosmo wrote:

People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.

I want them to learn english so the lady at McDonalds will quit fucking up my order

godpt3

jhinkle1114 wrote:

Some of my family works in construction and constantly complain of having problems finding people who work hard enough and often say the Hispanics work much harder--not illegals per say, but just Hispanic immigrants period. Of course there are exceptions and they have hard working whites, African-Americans etc., but among younger hires they say it's hard to find white or black young men who will work as hard and without complaing vs. the hispanics.

I and alot of other people in the agriculture community will tell you that there are two types of illegals: Those that work the fields and those that don't (usually packing plant labor). The field hands by and large are some of the hardest working folks you'll find. The rest of them... not so much. Don't ask me why, but the packing plant workers seem to have a much bigger attitude problem than the field workers. Almost to the point of having a sense of entitlement.

cincybearcat

know1 wrote:

No - I don't think that those folks (Lou Dobbs, etc) would be happy with that. But from my perspective, it takes away the one thing they think they can hide their racism behind - that those folks are "illegal".

And you're right. I really don't care if they want to become citizens or not. I'd be happy with just letting them work here if they choose to. I respect their willingness to do what it takes to make a better life for themselves.

Please don't cloud the issue, for many illegal immigration is not about racism any more than being against murder is racist if the murderer happens to be a minority.

It's about following the laws you have in place...and changing them if they aren't working for you, not just ignoring them. That's the lazy, undisciplined approach that could destroy a nation. Not on this law/issue alone, but that approach to all laws/issues.

mammasan

godpt3 wrote:

I want them to learn english so the lady at McDonalds will quit fucking up my order

Did you ever consider that they may be in the process of learning the language. Trust me learning a new language as an adult is pretty difficult, especially if you are spending the major part of your day working a shitty job sometimes two. I tried to learn a fourth language while in college, took Japanese for four years, and still couldn't carry on a long conversation in it. I'm sure that there are many immigrants, legal and illegal, who have no desire to assimulate but the majority do and are probably trying their best to learn the language.

lephty

there needs to be a better system for employers to check social security numbers. the company i work for does not look for illegal immigrants. we require work permits, social security cards, and all kinds of other US government issued ID"s. we get all of this info but how can we tell if its all fake?

however, we do get notices every once in a while about socials not being right so we have to suspend until straightened out. normally the person never shows up again. the thing with all this is that we recently had to get rid of person that has been with the company for about 5-10 years. how on earth is this possible?

lephty

mammasan wrote:

Did you ever consider that they may be in the process of learning the language. Trust me learning a new language as an adult is pretty difficult, especially if you are spending the major part of your day working a shitty job sometimes two. I tried to learn a fourth language while in college, took Japanese for four years, and still couldn't carry on a long conversation in it. I'm sure that there are many immigrants, legal and illegal, who have no desire to assimulate but the majority do and are probably trying their best to learn the language.

i love you for saying this. now granted it is not the greatest idea for a company to have a person that cannot fully communicate as may be needed in a customer service position.

my other favorite part of this argument is... "When you're grandparents came to this country, did they speak english right away? how long do you think it takes for someone to learn another language? could you learn chinese in a few months?" etc.