CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (AP)—A supervisor at the Agriprocessors meatpacking plant in Postville pleaded guilty Aug. 20 to conspiring to hire illegal immigrants and aiding and abetting their hiring.
Juan Carlos Guerrero-Espinoza, 35, struck a plea deal with federal prosecutors in court Aug. 20. He faces up to 10 years in prison and a $500,000 fine.
Federal magistrate Jon S. Scoles told Guerrero-Espinoza he will probably serve four to five years in prison. Part of the plea deal recommends a judge add two years to his sentence.
A date for sentencing was not immediately scheduled.
Scoles said Guerrero-Espinoza, a legal resident of the United States, could be deported after his sentence.
Guerrero-Espinoza, shackled at the wrists, ankles and waist, nodded his head while Scoles read the charges against him.
In May, the Agriprocessors plant in Postville was the site of the largest single-site immigration raid in U.S. history.
After the raid, 389 illegal immigrants were detained.
Guerrero-Espinoza and fellow Agriprocessors supervisor Martin De La Rosa-Loera, 43, were arrested on July 3 and charged with encouraging illegal immigrants to reside in the U.S. and aiding and abetting the possession and use of fraudulent identification. Guerrero-Espinoza also faced a charge of aiding and abetting aggravated identity theft.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Peter Deegan said in court on Aug. 20 that the additional two years recommended for Guerrero-Espinoza’s sentence stem from “dismissed and uncharged conduct,” but declined to comment further after the hearing.
The criminal complaint against Guerrero-Espinoza said a source who worked in the human resource department, who wasn’t identified, told authorities that Guerrero-Espinoza would bring them resident alien cards for new job applicants who were to be hired in the beef kill department, one of the areas he supervised.
Another source who worked at the plant told authorities that a week before the raid Guerrero-Espinoza instructed a group of workers to get new IDs and Social Security numbers in order to keep working at the company, the complaint said.
That source also reported that Guerrero-Espinoza instructed the person to provide a photograph and $200, and that the source supplied him with the money and a fake name. In return, the source says Guerrero-Espinoza provided new application packets including fraudulent resident alien cards.
Guerrero admitted in court to telling employees in May that they would be fired and rehired immediately, a key element of the conspiracy charge.
The plea agreement is nonbinding, and sentencing judge Linda R. Reade does not have to abide by the two-year addition recommended by prosecutors.
this has nothing to do with your statement of:
"actually, most of them steal somebody else's SSN. which is why they always get charged with identity theft."
what just read in your article was a company encouraged them to use stolen SS#'s....of which they provided...
heh i'm from about 10 minutes from Laurel, MS. i would have worked there... for a decent wage. why hire locals when illegals are half the price! fuck the locals who let them build there in the first place!
0
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I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading. I've heard it so many times. The reality is, they'll do jobs that we won't do for such low pay. I'm quite sure you'd get more gringos, blacks, asians, indians, whatever to "do the jobs the Mexicans do" if they were paid a decent wage. So again, I blame the employers hiring these people every bit as much as the illegal workers and totally agree with the sentiment that the employers should be held accountable.
you're crazy. i loved making 2.15 an hour plus tips waiting tables instead of working a cushy factory job making 20 an hour plus benefits. who would want to work there? i'll let the illegals have that job, minus the pay and benefits of course. after all, our corporations' well being must be preserved at all costs! without them i wouldnt have been able to keep my shitty low pay service job!
but hey at least i got to wait on them when they came in on their lunch breaks! i'm sure they left fat tips that the busboy stole or something.
I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading. I've heard it so many times. The reality is, they'll do jobs that we won't do for such low pay. I'm quite sure you'd get more gringos, blacks, asians, indians, whatever to "do the jobs the Mexicans do" if they were paid a decent wage. So again, I blame the employers hiring these people every bit as much as the illegal workers and totally agree with the sentiment that the employers should be held accountable.
do you have any idea how much stuff like produce would cost if you had anyone other than migrant workers picking? drive through the central valley of california sometime and watch them work..
I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading. I've heard it so many times. The reality is, they'll do jobs that we won't do for such low pay. I'm quite sure you'd get more gringos, blacks, asians, indians, whatever to "do the jobs the Mexicans do" if they were paid a decent wage. So again, I blame the employers hiring these people every bit as much as the illegal workers and totally agree with the sentiment that the employers should be held accountable.
But how exactly do you define a decent wage? Personally I think if you are doing something repetitive and super easy like bolting a wheel on a car, maybe you shouldn't be making $25-$30 bucks an hour plus benefits and a retirement plan. Now if you can support your family on much less then more power to you.
I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading. I've heard it so many times. The reality is, they'll do jobs that we won't do for such low pay. I'm quite sure you'd get more gringos, blacks, asians, indians, whatever to "do the jobs the Mexicans do" if they were paid a decent wage. So again, I blame the employers hiring these people every bit as much as the illegal workers and totally agree with the sentiment that the employers should be held accountable.
In my opinion, if somebody will do the job (and do it well enough for your satisfaction) then it's a decent wage.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
i never quite understood what the problem is there? obviously, these people are living and working here anyway....so why NOT make the process easier so they can be contributing citizens, pay taxes, not be a drain on services, etc.
I think a part of it is that people can use the "illegal" stigma to justify their public racism.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think a part of it is that people can use the "illegal" stigma to justify their public racism.
...
And what makes them 'illegal'?
Lack of sufficient paperwork.
...
So, really... to solve the problem... have them fill out the paperwork and sign the forms... then, everyone (including Lou Dobbs) will automagically be okay with it and finally shut the fuck up about it already?
...
How about we try approaching this 'problem' from a humanitarian point of view. The whole Wall thing is too much like something the former Soviet Union would do. You'd think we'd figure out some way to make this work... for everyone.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
And what makes them 'illegal'?
Lack of sufficient paperwork.
...
So, really... to solve the problem... have them fill out the paperwork and sign the forms... then, everyone (including Lou Dobbs) will automagically be okay with it and finally shut the fuck up about it already?
...
How about we try approaching this 'problem' from a humanitarian point of view. The whole Wall thing is too much like something the former Soviet Union would do. You'd think we'd figure out some way to make this work... for everyone.
Uh...we might be on the same side here. I'm basically in favor of people puttingt their signature on a document at the border and becoming a citizen. The easier and faster, the better, IMO.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I have to say that the whole argument that Mexicans do the jobs that we won't is misleading.
It partly is and partly isn't.
A big part of the issue is that blue collar, manual labor has been stigmatized in the US. Not as many people in younger generations are willing to do it versus past generations, even for a decent wage. People want the nice desk job. And I'm guilty of it, I have a Master's degree and will have my Ph D this year.
Thus many employers have a hard time finding regular American's to fill their positions.
Some of my family works in construction and constantly complain of having problems finding people who work hard enough and often say the Hispanics work much harder--not illegals per say, but just Hispanic immigrants period. Of course there are exceptions and they have hard working whites, African-Americans etc., but among younger hires they say it's hard to find white or black young men who will work as hard and without complaing vs. the hispanics.
Factor that in with the cheap labor offered by the illegals, and its easy to see how many employer's are drawn to them. Too many American's are lazy and bitch about doing manual labor. Which drives me nuts. If you don't want to do manual labor, then get an education!
2000: Pittsburgh
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Uh...we might be on the same side here. I'm basically in favor of people puttingt their signature on a document at the border and becoming a citizen. The easier and faster, the better, IMO.
...
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.
No - I don't think that those folks (Lou Dobbs, etc) would be happy with that. But from my perspective, it takes away the one thing they think they can hide their racism behind - that those folks are "illegal".
And you're right. I really don't care if they want to become citizens or not. I'd be happy with just letting them work here if they choose to. I respect their willingness to do what it takes to make a better life for themselves.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I have no problem with the operation, but I do find it sad that the illegals where rounded up and shipped off leaving family members in limbo while to assholes who hired them got to go home that night to their loved ones. Both should have been treated the same in my opinion.
Agreed. Deport the CEOs as well.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
But how exactly do you define a decent wage? Personally I think if you are doing something repetitive and super easy like bolting a wheel on a car, maybe you shouldn't be making $25-$30 bucks an hour plus benefits and a retirement plan. Now if you can support your family on much less then more power to you.
Decent being at the bare minimum, ummm, minimum wage. Which is enough if you share an apartment with a bunch of other working adults but not to raise a family on, for sure. When these illegals come here and work for $20 for a full day of hard work that is not a fair wage. Not to them or any American citizen that wants the job.
...
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.
Good points. But a lot do want to become American citizens. This is the Shangra La. The land of opportunity. I've talked to so many folks from all over the world who came to the U.S. for these reasons. I should say this is their vision of America. Many become disillusioned after a few years of working dead end jobs, but many of those with educations and profitable careers love this country more than a lot of "us Americans" do. I suppose that's how it's always been.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.
I want them to learn english so the lady at McDonalds will quit fucking up my order
"If all those sweet, young things were laid end to end, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised."
—Dorothy Parker
Some of my family works in construction and constantly complain of having problems finding people who work hard enough and often say the Hispanics work much harder--not illegals per say, but just Hispanic immigrants period. Of course there are exceptions and they have hard working whites, African-Americans etc., but among younger hires they say it's hard to find white or black young men who will work as hard and without complaing vs. the hispanics.
I and alot of other people in the agriculture community will tell you that there are two types of illegals: Those that work the fields and those that don't (usually packing plant labor). The field hands by and large are some of the hardest working folks you'll find. The rest of them... not so much. Don't ask me why, but the packing plant workers seem to have a much bigger attitude problem than the field workers. Almost to the point of having a sense of entitlement.
"If all those sweet, young things were laid end to end, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised."
—Dorothy Parker
No - I don't think that those folks (Lou Dobbs, etc) would be happy with that. But from my perspective, it takes away the one thing they think they can hide their racism behind - that those folks are "illegal".
And you're right. I really don't care if they want to become citizens or not. I'd be happy with just letting them work here if they choose to. I respect their willingness to do what it takes to make a better life for themselves.
Please don't cloud the issue, for many illegal immigration is not about racism any more than being against murder is racist if the murderer happens to be a minority.
It's about following the laws you have in place...and changing them if they aren't working for you, not just ignoring them. That's the lazy, undisciplined approach that could destroy a nation. Not on this law/issue alone, but that approach to all laws/issues.
I want them to learn english so the lady at McDonalds will quit fucking up my order
Did you ever consider that they may be in the process of learning the language. Trust me learning a new language as an adult is pretty difficult, especially if you are spending the major part of your day working a shitty job sometimes two. I tried to learn a fourth language while in college, took Japanese for four years, and still couldn't carry on a long conversation in it. I'm sure that there are many immigrants, legal and illegal, who have no desire to assimulate but the majority do and are probably trying their best to learn the language.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
there needs to be a better system for employers to check social security numbers. the company i work for does not look for illegal immigrants. we require work permits, social security cards, and all kinds of other US government issued ID"s. we get all of this info but how can we tell if its all fake?
however, we do get notices every once in a while about socials not being right so we have to suspend until straightened out. normally the person never shows up again. the thing with all this is that we recently had to get rid of person that has been with the company for about 5-10 years. how on earth is this possible?
Did you ever consider that they may be in the process of learning the language. Trust me learning a new language as an adult is pretty difficult, especially if you are spending the major part of your day working a shitty job sometimes two. I tried to learn a fourth language while in college, took Japanese for four years, and still couldn't carry on a long conversation in it. I'm sure that there are many immigrants, legal and illegal, who have no desire to assimulate but the majority do and are probably trying their best to learn the language.
i love you for saying this. now granted it is not the greatest idea for a company to have a person that cannot fully communicate as may be needed in a customer service position.
my other favorite part of this argument is... "When you're grandparents came to this country, did they speak english right away? how long do you think it takes for someone to learn another language? could you learn chinese in a few months?" etc.
Comments
this has nothing to do with your statement of:
"actually, most of them steal somebody else's SSN. which is why they always get charged with identity theft."
what just read in your article was a company encouraged them to use stolen SS#'s....of which they provided...
Define 'them'.
but hey at least i got to wait on them when they came in on their lunch breaks! i'm sure they left fat tips that the busboy stole or something.
lol
www.seanbrady.net
do you have any idea how much stuff like produce would cost if you had anyone other than migrant workers picking? drive through the central valley of california sometime and watch them work..
Only those of us whom have chosen a career path in the chicken slaughterhouse profession or us professional dish washers.
Hail, Hail!!!
But how exactly do you define a decent wage? Personally I think if you are doing something repetitive and super easy like bolting a wheel on a car, maybe you shouldn't be making $25-$30 bucks an hour plus benefits and a retirement plan. Now if you can support your family on much less then more power to you.
lol
Anyone who wants to be a citizen who isn't one currently.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Or how hypocritical the Dems have become.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
In my opinion, if somebody will do the job (and do it well enough for your satisfaction) then it's a decent wage.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think a part of it is that people can use the "illegal" stigma to justify their public racism.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
And what makes them 'illegal'?
Lack of sufficient paperwork.
...
So, really... to solve the problem... have them fill out the paperwork and sign the forms... then, everyone (including Lou Dobbs) will automagically be okay with it and finally shut the fuck up about it already?
...
How about we try approaching this 'problem' from a humanitarian point of view. The whole Wall thing is too much like something the former Soviet Union would do. You'd think we'd figure out some way to make this work... for everyone.
Hail, Hail!!!
Uh...we might be on the same side here. I'm basically in favor of people puttingt their signature on a document at the border and becoming a citizen. The easier and faster, the better, IMO.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It partly is and partly isn't.
A big part of the issue is that blue collar, manual labor has been stigmatized in the US. Not as many people in younger generations are willing to do it versus past generations, even for a decent wage. People want the nice desk job. And I'm guilty of it, I have a Master's degree and will have my Ph D this year.
Thus many employers have a hard time finding regular American's to fill their positions.
Some of my family works in construction and constantly complain of having problems finding people who work hard enough and often say the Hispanics work much harder--not illegals per say, but just Hispanic immigrants period. Of course there are exceptions and they have hard working whites, African-Americans etc., but among younger hires they say it's hard to find white or black young men who will work as hard and without complaing vs. the hispanics.
Factor that in with the cheap labor offered by the illegals, and its easy to see how many employer's are drawn to them. Too many American's are lazy and bitch about doing manual labor. Which drives me nuts. If you don't want to do manual labor, then get an education!
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
I know... we are in agreement here.
I'm just wondering... if the paper work was all done... would Lou Dobbs and his same mindset folks be happy with that?.
...
And it is the misconception that they WANT to become citizens. No. They come here because the work is here. If the work was over there... they would stay over there. Problem is... it's tough to wash dishes in a restaurant in New York... from Juarez, Mexico.
People who believe that Mexicans that come here should 'Learn The Language' and must want to become an American citizen... must also believe that Americans working in Saudi Arabia must want to become Saudi citizens and should learn to speak Arabic.
Hail, Hail!!!
No - I don't think that those folks (Lou Dobbs, etc) would be happy with that. But from my perspective, it takes away the one thing they think they can hide their racism behind - that those folks are "illegal".
And you're right. I really don't care if they want to become citizens or not. I'd be happy with just letting them work here if they choose to. I respect their willingness to do what it takes to make a better life for themselves.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Agreed. Deport the CEOs as well.
-Enoch Powell
Decent being at the bare minimum, ummm, minimum wage. Which is enough if you share an apartment with a bunch of other working adults but not to raise a family on, for sure. When these illegals come here and work for $20 for a full day of hard work that is not a fair wage. Not to them or any American citizen that wants the job.
Good points. But a lot do want to become American citizens. This is the Shangra La. The land of opportunity. I've talked to so many folks from all over the world who came to the U.S. for these reasons. I should say this is their vision of America. Many become disillusioned after a few years of working dead end jobs, but many of those with educations and profitable careers love this country more than a lot of "us Americans" do. I suppose that's how it's always been.
I want them to learn english so the lady at McDonalds will quit fucking up my order
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
I and alot of other people in the agriculture community will tell you that there are two types of illegals: Those that work the fields and those that don't (usually packing plant labor). The field hands by and large are some of the hardest working folks you'll find. The rest of them... not so much. Don't ask me why, but the packing plant workers seem to have a much bigger attitude problem than the field workers. Almost to the point of having a sense of entitlement.
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
Please don't cloud the issue, for many illegal immigration is not about racism any more than being against murder is racist if the murderer happens to be a minority.
It's about following the laws you have in place...and changing them if they aren't working for you, not just ignoring them. That's the lazy, undisciplined approach that could destroy a nation. Not on this law/issue alone, but that approach to all laws/issues.
Did you ever consider that they may be in the process of learning the language. Trust me learning a new language as an adult is pretty difficult, especially if you are spending the major part of your day working a shitty job sometimes two. I tried to learn a fourth language while in college, took Japanese for four years, and still couldn't carry on a long conversation in it. I'm sure that there are many immigrants, legal and illegal, who have no desire to assimulate but the majority do and are probably trying their best to learn the language.
however, we do get notices every once in a while about socials not being right so we have to suspend until straightened out. normally the person never shows up again. the thing with all this is that we recently had to get rid of person that has been with the company for about 5-10 years. how on earth is this possible?
i love you for saying this. now granted it is not the greatest idea for a company to have a person that cannot fully communicate as may be needed in a customer service position.
my other favorite part of this argument is... "When you're grandparents came to this country, did they speak english right away? how long do you think it takes for someone to learn another language? could you learn chinese in a few months?" etc.