I think it was a mature step for McCain to say he was putting the debate on hold to take a look at the economy. Let's be honest, when all is said and done our economy is more important then the debate right now. However, there is no way he was not going to show up.
I think it was a mature step for McCain to say he was putting the debate on hold to take a look at the economy. Let's be honest, when all is said and done our economy is more important then the debate right now. However, there is no way he was not going to show up.
my points are two fold ...
One, why not last week? Why not suspend the campaign LAST week? Why wait 'til the 11th hour, THEN do this?
Two, did he really need to make the issue about not going to the debate? Why make a public display about it?
Again, the ploy was not "country first" ...
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
He is running for president....it was going to be public no matter what he did, not to mention that he put it on hold two days before the president even made a public statement about the economy.
I think it was a mature step for McCain to say he was putting the debate on hold to take a look at the economy. Let's be honest, when all is said and done our economy is more important then the debate right now. However, there is no way he was not going to show up.
It's a bit of a copout though really. The guy wanted to debate more just a few weeks ago.... so debate. Tell the American public why they have to bail these losers out to the tune of 700 billion and nationalize the economy. The republicans are the party of small government right? Well, this ain't small government... explain to me why we "need" this bailout. Honestly, his being in the discussion along with Barack Obama when they have been awol the entire year while campaigning doesn't amount to a hill of beans. This is him trying to capitalize on the situation and say... look see I care about the economy... look at me doing the right thing while my opponent wants to have a frivolous debate... Everything about this is calculated and political. Neither one of them would not show up for a TV appearence.
I don't know that anyone can say they vote for republicans because they are economic conservatives and not feel like they have egg all over thier faces. Yes it's a multifacited issue that lots of people are responsible for, but the republicans have been in control for 8 years.... if McCain wants this job... he's got some splaining to do... Obama will get the benifit of the doubt because his party hasn't been in the White House the last 8 years... thems the breaks.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
He is running for president....it was going to be public no matter what he did, not to mention that he put it on hold two days before the president even made a public statement about the economy.
This sounds pretty fishy to me. If he said that he would not debate or resuming campaigning until there was a deal set in place in Washington, why is he now going to debate Obama in Mississippi? He's going back on his resolute pledge to put "country first" as he said he was doing. There's obviously no deal in place, and it doesn't look like there will be one till Monday. If McCain was truly not "playing politics", then why is there a debate tonight at all?
I think it's pretty straightforward. If Obama agreed to postpone the debate, it would've looked like he was deferring to John McCain, the "real leader in crisis." So McCain made a political gamble, and Obama called his bluff. Since he did, McCain's going down to the debate when he said he would not unless there was a deal in place.
I kind of wish he would have stuck to his guns. Guess he didn't want to give Obama 90 minutes of free airtime.
Ah well.
I think things where not going according to plan. I believe that McCain thought that there would be a proposal by Thursday or Friday morning at the latest and he could go the debate and claim that he helped broker the deal. Also most polls showed that Americans wanted a debate. When a proposal was not agreed upon he really had to choices stay in DC or go to the debate. I don't think he ever intended to miss the debate so he had to back off his initial pledge. It was a risky move and had it worked it would have been nothing short of genius.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I think things where not going according to plan. I believe that McCain thought that there would be a proposal by Thursday or Friday morning at the latest and he could go the debate and claim that he helped broker the deal. Also most polls showed that Americans wanted a debate. When a proposal was not agreed upon he really had to choices stay in DC or go to the debate. I don't think he ever intended to miss the debate so he had to back off his initial pledge. It was a risky move and had it worked it would have been nothing short of genius.
See, I think he made a calculated risk that Obama was not going to stand up to him on this issue. Obama has had a problem this election cycle with being seen as an arrogant, elitist celebrity who puts his own campaign above country. McCain probably thought, when he made his big statement, that Obama would politically look at the situation and say that he could not let the debate still happen because he would be accused of putting his campaign over a crisis. He thought Obama would chicken out and agree to have the debate postponed, and then McCain would look like the natural leader whom Obama deferred to. It was risky, and unfortunately for McCain Obama called BS, and never stepped down from keeping the debate.
See, I think he made a calculated risk that Obama was not going to stand up to him on this issue. Obama has had a problem this election cycle with being seen as an arrogant, elitist celebrity who puts his own campaign above country. McCain probably thought, when he made his big statement, that Obama would politically look at the situation and say that he could not let the debate still happen because he would be accused of putting his campaign over a crisis. He thought Obama would chicken out and agree to have the debate postponed, and then McCain would look like the natural leader whom Obama deferred to. It was risky, and unfortunately for McCain Obama called BS, and never stepped down from keeping the debate.
Mike Huckabee has come out now and said that McCain made a huge mistake.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Mike Huckabee has come out now and said that McCain made a huge mistake.
I just believe McCain, or McCain's campaign, thinks Obama is both completely and entirely politically-driven and that he is a chicken, for lack of a better word, and I think it was probably inconceivable to them that Obama would push to have the debate continue if there was a risk of him looking arrogant or uncaring. But Obama did push for it, and McCain's left with no deal and a move to Washington that now looks extremely political, continuing he has reneged on his promise to remain there until a deal is seen through. He didn't think Obama would dispute him in the first place.
An interesting story has just broken regarding John McCain
This morning there was banner add on The Wall Street Journal website as well as one on McCain's homepage claiming that John McCain "Won The Debate"?? "Knocked it outta the Park"??
Well the debates haven't happend yet...and this is not likely to happen in my honest opinion...
Anyways...
I understand that someone in the McCain camp possibly may have jumped the gun here and ran the add a little pre-mature
But kind of makes you wonder about when these banner adds were purchased...Yeah?
It would seem to me that John McCain intended to debate all along and that this further proves that his actions in the last 72 hours have completly blown up in his face.
See, I think he made a calculated risk that Obama was not going to stand up to him on this issue. Obama has had a problem this election cycle with being seen as an arrogant, elitist celebrity who puts his own campaign above country. McCain probably thought, when he made his big statement, that Obama would politically look at the situation and say that he could not let the debate still happen because he would be accused of putting his campaign over a crisis. He thought Obama would chicken out and agree to have the debate postponed, and then McCain would look like the natural leader whom Obama deferred to. It was risky, and unfortunately for McCain Obama called BS, and never stepped down from keeping the debate.
I actually think if McCain had stuck to his guns, this is exactly what would have happened.
I mean, how would it have looked, with the country in financial turmoil, for Obama to go to Mississippi and give a 90-minute soliloquy on foreign policy?
It would have looked damned silly. And Obama knows it.
I really think if McCain had said today, "You go ahead with the show while the adults get to work in Washington" -- Obama would have HAD to stay in D.C.
Instead, McCain blinked ... and I'm really not sure why. Once you've gotten that far, might as well play it out.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I actually think if McCain had stuck to his guns, this is exactly what would have happened.
I mean, how would it have looked, with the country in financial turmoil, for Obama to go to Mississippi and give a 90-minute soliloquy on foreign policy?
It would have looked damned silly. And Obama knows it.
I really think if McCain had said today, "You go ahead with the show while the adults get to work in Washington" -- Obama would have HAD to stay in D.C.
Instead, McCain blinked ... and I'm really not sure why. Once you've gotten that far, might as well play it out.
No Obama probably would have held a town hall type meeting on the economy.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I actually think if McCain had stuck to his guns, this is exactly what would have happened.
I mean, how would it have looked, with the country in financial turmoil, for Obama to go to Mississippi and give a 90-minute soliloquy on foreign policy?
It would have looked damned silly. And Obama knows it.
I really think if McCain had said today, "You go ahead with the show while the adults get to work in Washington" -- Obama would have HAD to stay in D.C.
Instead, McCain blinked ... and I'm really not sure why. Once you've gotten that far, might as well play it out.
The thing is, a week from now, no one will care ... and the election will still be pretty close where one small thing could tilt this whole election back in his favor.
McCain is just going to keep lobbing up these "hail marrys" praying one of them stick ... it's the only way, it appears, he's going to win this election ...
I anticipate the Repubs have a few October Obama surprises up their slimy sleeves ...
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I just believe McCain, or McCain's campaign, thinks Obama is both completely and entirely politically-driven and that he is a chicken, for lack of a better word, and I think it was probably inconceivable to them that Obama would push to have the debate continue if there was a risk of him looking arrogant or uncaring. But Obama did push for it, and McCain's left with no deal and a move to Washington that now looks extremely political, continuing he has reneged on his promise to remain there until a deal is seen through. He didn't think Obama would dispute him in the first place.
I don't think that they believed that Obama would go along with postponing the debate. They can't be that dumb can they? I think they figured with the importance of the bill and the upcoming recess, that a deal would be done before tonight. They could try to look like they are putting country first, that Obama didn't care as much about the country, and go into the debates as the hero who is above the political fray.
Now a deal isn't done, and he has to come into the debate with his tail between his legs.
The "suspending" the campaign is the stunt that I don't get... Clearly they didn't suspend the campaign, and everyone from the news outlets to David Letterman have been calling him on it.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
It would have looked damned silly. And Obama knows it.
I really think if McCain had said today, "You go ahead with the show while the adults get to work in Washington" -- Obama would have HAD to stay in D.C.
Instead, McCain blinked ... and I'm really not sure why. Once you've gotten that far, might as well play it out.
Because Obama bet, correctly as it turns out, that McCain would only not attend the debate if the debate had been postponed. He believed that McCain was blowing smoke up his ass, trying to get Obama to defer to the real leader in crises such as this. And Obama had none of it. It was a good try, but the facts speak for themselves; McCain's going to the debate without a deal ready when he said he would not. It was a political stunt that backfired.
Pure poker. McCain tried to bluff Obama, knowing that if a deal was not in place by Friday or if there was not a postponement of the debate he would look idiotic. Obama saw straight through it and stuck to his guns, knowing that if the debate stayed on and McCain didn't attend he would look like a bigger fool. McCain played smart politics by risking that Obama would cave, and Obama played smarter politics by not doing so.
The thing is, a week from now, no one will care ... and the election will still be pretty close where one small thing could tilt this whole election back in his favor.
McCain is just going to keep lobbing up these "hail marrys" praying one of them stick ... it's the only way, it appears, he's going to win this election ...
I anticipate the Repubs have a few October Obama surprises up their slimy sleeves ...
True... no matter what happens, the polls will still show them within single digits for the rest of the way. This country is way too polarized and entrenched into their parties, that Obama could run against an actual elephant or McCain against a live donkey, and the polls would still be close.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I don't think that they believed that Obama would go along with postponing the debate. They can't be that dumb can they?
I don't think it's being dumb...I think they just assumed they knew what Obama would do, and knowing he had a weakness with looking like he was putting himself over his duties (no wonder McCain's had "Country First!" everywhere), I think McCain's campaign honestly thought that when push came to shove, Obama would think that less damaged would be done by postponing the debate than keeping it.
I guess we still have to see how it plans out...it might play differently in the debate.
I'm starting to wonder if McCain even cares anymore, or if he's just tired and resentful of the fact that Sarah Palin was forced on him and he realizes that he's setting himself up for at least four years of exhausting political gamesmanship trying to dig out of the hole that George W. Bush has made, and he just wants to phone it in from here, only he's going to try to do just enough so that it doesn't look like he's phoning it in. Hence all the flubs and slips and general aura of confusion around the McCain campaign these days.
Even if McCain does win the White House there will almost certainly be a Democratic majority in the House and Senate.
His best chance was 8 years ago, when he still had a little fire, but he got pantsed by Bush (or more accurately, by Rove) and now he just looks like Bob Dole circa September - October '96 - going through the motions.
Because Obama bet, correctly as it turns out, that McCain would only not attend the debate if the debate had been postponed. He believed that McCain was blowing smoke up his ass, trying to get Obama to defer to the real leader in crises such as this. And Obama had none of it. It was a good try, but the facts speak for themselves; McCain's going to the debate without a deal ready when he said he would not. It was a political stunt that backfired.
Pure poker. McCain tried to bluff Obama, knowing that if a deal was not in place by Friday or if there was not a postponement of the debate he would look idiotic. Obama saw straight through it and stuck to his guns, knowing that if the debate stayed on and McCain didn't attend he would look like a bigger fool. McCain played smart politics by risking that Obama would cave, and Obama played smarter politics by not doing so.
Oh, I agree. McCain blinked first, but I wish he wouldn't have. You already went that far. Might as well play it out and see what happens.
I have a feeling, if push really came to shove, Obama wasn't about to go to Mississippi to debate himself on foreign policy while a crisis raged in Washington.
I actually think McCain made the right bet, but then got scared off. Obama definitely won this round of political poker. No doubt.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Oh, I agree. McCain blinked first, but I wish he wouldn't have. You already went that far. Might as well play it out and see what happens.
I have a feeling, if push really came to shove, Obama wasn't about to go to Mississippi to debate himself on foreign policy while a crisis raged in Washington.
I actually think McCain made the right bet, but then got scared off. Obama definitely won this round of political poker. No doubt.
Are you kidding me?
Obama would have showed up regardless.
If McCain didn't show. You'd have 90 minutes televised of Obama talking to the American Public. This would have destroyed McCain.
True... no matter what happens, the polls will still show them within single digits for the rest of the way. This country is way too polarized and entrenched into their parties, that Obama could run against an actual elephant or McCain against a live donkey, and the polls would still be close.
Breaking News- McCain Realized That His Presence Was Not, In Fact, Required In Washington At This Time And He Has Now AGREED To Do What He's Actually Obligated To Do, Which Is Debate His Rival For The Highest Office In The Land.
Holy Shit, he IS a maverick!
:rolleyes:
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
If McCain didn't show. You'd have 90 minutes televised of Obama talking to the American Public. This would have destroyed McCain.
McCain planned to debate all along.
I think it would have depended on how it was spun.
If McCain could have said, "We're in the middle of the biggest crisis this country has faced in any of our lifetimes, maybe even bigger than 9/11. I'm doing what I do best -- going to work to find a solution. Meanwhile, my opponent skipped town for Mississippi, doing what he does best -- talking."
I think that would have, or could have, resonated in middle America, and reinforced the already prevalent notion that McCain is the doer, and Obama is the talker.
Helping his case would have been the fact that tonight's debate is going to be exclusively about foreign policy, which seems kind of stupid with the economy dominating the news right now. It's not irrelevant, but it sure seems that way.
obviously, it's all a moot point now.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I think it would have depended on how it was spun.
If McCain could have said, "We're in the middle of the biggest crisis this country has faced in any of our lifetimes, maybe even bigger than 9/11. I'm doing what I do best -- going to work to find a solution. Meanwhile, my opponent skipped town for Mississippi, doing what he does best -- talking."
I think that would have, or could have, resonated in middle America, and reinforced the already prevalent notion that McCain is the doer, and Obama is the talker.
Helping his case would have been the fact that tonight's debate is going to be exclusively about foreign policy, which seems kind of stupid with the economy dominating the news right now. It's not irrelevant, but it sure seems that way.
obviously, it's all a moot point now.
I disagree with your notion on that McCain played the better game here, because I just honestly don't think McCain planned on there being a debate tonight at all. What better example of leadership to move to have a debate postponed to focus on the economy, and even more have your opponent agree to it! That would have played into the notion of Obama being a talker and McCain being a doer. It just makes no sense to me that McCain would have done what he did while still expecting there to be a debate tonight. With Washington nowhere near a deal, and his presence not seemingly called upon either by the Democratic leadership or his own party, McCain would look foolish if he stayed in Washington tonight. He's going to look like an idiot either way, so that leads me to believe that he must have thought Obama would cave. I can't see his campaign being foolish enough to try the stunt they did without that being the desired outcome.
If a deal had gone through today it probably would have been a different story, but it didn't, and a smart political move would have been to realize that that probably was not likely to happen.
And tonight's debate is definetely going to be about the economy, in large part. I don't see how it could be otherwise.
And tonight's debate is definetely going to be about the economy, in large part. I don't see how it could be otherwise.
Maybe that's the whole reason for trying to delay it... McCain's best area of knowledge is obviously foreign policy, and the timing will change the focus from all foreign policy to some economy questions. Perhaps his campaign was hoping to preserve a strictly foreign policy debate.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I disagree with your notion on that McCain played the better game here, because I just honestly don't think McCain planned on there being a debate tonight at all. What better example of leadership to move to have a debate postponed to focus on the economy, and even more have your opponent agree to it! That would have played into the notion of Obama being a talker and McCain being a doer. It just makes no sense to me that McCain would have done what he did while still expecting there to be a debate tonight. With Washington nowhere near a deal, and his presence not seemingly called upon either by the Democratic leadership or his own party, McCain would look foolish if he stayed in Washington tonight. He's going to look like an idiot either way, so that leads me to believe that he must have thought Obama would cave. I can't see his campaign being foolish enough to try the stunt they did without that being the desired outcome.
I think you and I are both in the same ballpark ... I just believe if McCain would have stuck to his guns, there would not have been a debate tonight. I believe if push came to shove, Obama would have been forced to stay in Washington, too.
I kind of feel like, politically speaking, McCain got the ball all the way to the goal line here, and then took a knee.
Of course, there is an alternate reading to this ...
Maybe there was less political calculation in this than most people think. Obviously, if you're running for president, you have to measure how every action is going to affect the campaign, but ...
Maybe McCain went back to Washington because he really thought it was the right thing for him to do, his campaign be damned. It might be completely naive of me, but I actually think McCain -- moreso than most politicians -- really does try to follow his heart and do what is best for the country.
Maybe I'm just a sucker for his war hero story. If the guy was basically willing to sacrifice his life for what he thought was best for his country, I don't see any reason to think he wouldn't sacrifice is campaign for what he thought was good for the country.
I kind of think McCain saw his country in trouble, and didn't feel like he could sit idly by on the campaign trail while it happened. But I guess we never can really know a person's true motives.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Had McCain produced any kind of results during his maverick parachute drop on Washington DC at the eleventh hour...than Obama may have been in trouble.
But Obama beat McCain to the pass. He showed up prepared to his meeting with Bush and was seemingly the only one with a plan. While McCain sat there lost and silent in his own inept grasp of the situation. Obama clearly took the lead and outlined 5 provisions that must be met. All of which dealt with preventing CEO "golden parachutes" and ensure that regulations be placed on companies such as Fannie and Freddie and that the American Tax payer is protected and even has a shot at gaining some equity if the Banks bounce back.
McCain this morning has been largely blamed for swooping in at the last minute to torpedo what was up until late last night a done deal.
Several Senators on both sides of the floor have stated that the alternate bill that the Conservative House and McCain have put forth at the last minute was once again littered with earmarks and provisions that de-regulate rather than regulate.
It has been said that McCain's bill is weaker than Pulson's original 3-page proposel in regards to protecting the American Tax payer.
I dont' think McCain has looked good at all through this. People caught onto his bluff very early on and I'm sure that more than a few of his fellow Republican Senators rolled their eyes when McCain's so-called maverick parachute came crashing down on Washington DC yesterday.
Had McCain produced any kind of results during his maverick parachute drop on Washington DC at the eleventh hour...than Obama may have been in trouble.
But Obama beat McCain to the pass. He showed up prepared to his meeting with Bush and was seemingly the only one with a plan. While McCain sat there lost and silent in his own inept grasp of the situation. Obama clearly took the lead and outlined 5 provisions that must be met. All of which dealt with preventing CEO "golden parachutes" and ensure that regulations be placed on companies such as Fannie and Freddie and that the American Tax payer is protected and even has a shot at gaining some equity if the Banks bounce back.
Jesus Christ ... where did you get this bit of information, the Obama campaign?
The version I heard was that the meeting was immediately turned over to Obama, who completely lost control of the whole thing. He had no plan, and didn't understand the House version that was presented to him. He immediately had to get Paulson to explain it to him.
Is this all true? How the fuck should I know? I wasn't there. And neither were you.
So frankly, either version could be true.
McCain this morning has been largely blamed for swooping in at the last minute to torpedo what was up until late last night a done deal.
There was no deal. And even if there was, there is no way for McCain or anyone else to torpedo it. THE DEMOCRATS HAVE THE MAJORITY IN BOTH HOUSES. THEY CAN PASS ANYTHING THEY WANT.
I dont' think McCain has looked good at all through this.
This, I can agree with ... because it's all about perception. And right now, the narrative the Democrats are peddling -- and the media is buying -- is "McCain came in and wrecked the deal." And that's it's just an out and out lie.
Given the two things I mentioned above, there's no way it can be the truth.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Comments
my points are two fold ...
One, why not last week? Why not suspend the campaign LAST week? Why wait 'til the 11th hour, THEN do this?
Two, did he really need to make the issue about not going to the debate? Why make a public display about it?
Again, the ploy was not "country first" ...
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
It's a bit of a copout though really. The guy wanted to debate more just a few weeks ago.... so debate. Tell the American public why they have to bail these losers out to the tune of 700 billion and nationalize the economy. The republicans are the party of small government right? Well, this ain't small government... explain to me why we "need" this bailout. Honestly, his being in the discussion along with Barack Obama when they have been awol the entire year while campaigning doesn't amount to a hill of beans. This is him trying to capitalize on the situation and say... look see I care about the economy... look at me doing the right thing while my opponent wants to have a frivolous debate... Everything about this is calculated and political. Neither one of them would not show up for a TV appearence.
I don't know that anyone can say they vote for republicans because they are economic conservatives and not feel like they have egg all over thier faces. Yes it's a multifacited issue that lots of people are responsible for, but the republicans have been in control for 8 years.... if McCain wants this job... he's got some splaining to do... Obama will get the benifit of the doubt because his party hasn't been in the White House the last 8 years... thems the breaks.
This sounds pretty fishy to me. If he said that he would not debate or resuming campaigning until there was a deal set in place in Washington, why is he now going to debate Obama in Mississippi? He's going back on his resolute pledge to put "country first" as he said he was doing. There's obviously no deal in place, and it doesn't look like there will be one till Monday. If McCain was truly not "playing politics", then why is there a debate tonight at all?
I think it's pretty straightforward. If Obama agreed to postpone the debate, it would've looked like he was deferring to John McCain, the "real leader in crisis." So McCain made a political gamble, and Obama called his bluff. Since he did, McCain's going down to the debate when he said he would not unless there was a deal in place.
Ah well.
for the least they could possibly do
I think things where not going according to plan. I believe that McCain thought that there would be a proposal by Thursday or Friday morning at the latest and he could go the debate and claim that he helped broker the deal. Also most polls showed that Americans wanted a debate. When a proposal was not agreed upon he really had to choices stay in DC or go to the debate. I don't think he ever intended to miss the debate so he had to back off his initial pledge. It was a risky move and had it worked it would have been nothing short of genius.
See, I think he made a calculated risk that Obama was not going to stand up to him on this issue. Obama has had a problem this election cycle with being seen as an arrogant, elitist celebrity who puts his own campaign above country. McCain probably thought, when he made his big statement, that Obama would politically look at the situation and say that he could not let the debate still happen because he would be accused of putting his campaign over a crisis. He thought Obama would chicken out and agree to have the debate postponed, and then McCain would look like the natural leader whom Obama deferred to. It was risky, and unfortunately for McCain Obama called BS, and never stepped down from keeping the debate.
Mike Huckabee has come out now and said that McCain made a huge mistake.
I just believe McCain, or McCain's campaign, thinks Obama is both completely and entirely politically-driven and that he is a chicken, for lack of a better word, and I think it was probably inconceivable to them that Obama would push to have the debate continue if there was a risk of him looking arrogant or uncaring. But Obama did push for it, and McCain's left with no deal and a move to Washington that now looks extremely political, continuing he has reneged on his promise to remain there until a deal is seen through. He didn't think Obama would dispute him in the first place.
This morning there was banner add on The Wall Street Journal website as well as one on McCain's homepage claiming that John McCain "Won The Debate"?? "Knocked it outta the Park"??
Well the debates haven't happend yet...and this is not likely to happen in my honest opinion...
Anyways...
I understand that someone in the McCain camp possibly may have jumped the gun here and ran the add a little pre-mature
But kind of makes you wonder about when these banner adds were purchased...Yeah?
It would seem to me that John McCain intended to debate all along and that this further proves that his actions in the last 72 hours have completly blown up in his face.
I actually think if McCain had stuck to his guns, this is exactly what would have happened.
I mean, how would it have looked, with the country in financial turmoil, for Obama to go to Mississippi and give a 90-minute soliloquy on foreign policy?
It would have looked damned silly. And Obama knows it.
I really think if McCain had said today, "You go ahead with the show while the adults get to work in Washington" -- Obama would have HAD to stay in D.C.
Instead, McCain blinked ... and I'm really not sure why. Once you've gotten that far, might as well play it out.
for the least they could possibly do
No Obama probably would have held a town hall type meeting on the economy.
The thing is, a week from now, no one will care ... and the election will still be pretty close where one small thing could tilt this whole election back in his favor.
McCain is just going to keep lobbing up these "hail marrys" praying one of them stick ... it's the only way, it appears, he's going to win this election ...
I anticipate the Repubs have a few October Obama surprises up their slimy sleeves ...
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I don't think that they believed that Obama would go along with postponing the debate. They can't be that dumb can they? I think they figured with the importance of the bill and the upcoming recess, that a deal would be done before tonight. They could try to look like they are putting country first, that Obama didn't care as much about the country, and go into the debates as the hero who is above the political fray.
Now a deal isn't done, and he has to come into the debate with his tail between his legs.
The "suspending" the campaign is the stunt that I don't get... Clearly they didn't suspend the campaign, and everyone from the news outlets to David Letterman have been calling him on it.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Because Obama bet, correctly as it turns out, that McCain would only not attend the debate if the debate had been postponed. He believed that McCain was blowing smoke up his ass, trying to get Obama to defer to the real leader in crises such as this. And Obama had none of it. It was a good try, but the facts speak for themselves; McCain's going to the debate without a deal ready when he said he would not. It was a political stunt that backfired.
Pure poker. McCain tried to bluff Obama, knowing that if a deal was not in place by Friday or if there was not a postponement of the debate he would look idiotic. Obama saw straight through it and stuck to his guns, knowing that if the debate stayed on and McCain didn't attend he would look like a bigger fool. McCain played smart politics by risking that Obama would cave, and Obama played smarter politics by not doing so.
True... no matter what happens, the polls will still show them within single digits for the rest of the way. This country is way too polarized and entrenched into their parties, that Obama could run against an actual elephant or McCain against a live donkey, and the polls would still be close.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I don't think it's being dumb...I think they just assumed they knew what Obama would do, and knowing he had a weakness with looking like he was putting himself over his duties (no wonder McCain's had "Country First!" everywhere), I think McCain's campaign honestly thought that when push came to shove, Obama would think that less damaged would be done by postponing the debate than keeping it.
I guess we still have to see how it plans out...it might play differently in the debate.
Even if McCain does win the White House there will almost certainly be a Democratic majority in the House and Senate.
His best chance was 8 years ago, when he still had a little fire, but he got pantsed by Bush (or more accurately, by Rove) and now he just looks like Bob Dole circa September - October '96 - going through the motions.
Oh, I agree. McCain blinked first, but I wish he wouldn't have. You already went that far. Might as well play it out and see what happens.
I have a feeling, if push really came to shove, Obama wasn't about to go to Mississippi to debate himself on foreign policy while a crisis raged in Washington.
I actually think McCain made the right bet, but then got scared off. Obama definitely won this round of political poker. No doubt.
for the least they could possibly do
Are you kidding me?
Obama would have showed up regardless.
If McCain didn't show. You'd have 90 minutes televised of Obama talking to the American Public. This would have destroyed McCain.
McCain planned to debate all along.
Holy Shit, he IS a maverick!
:rolleyes:
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
I think it would have depended on how it was spun.
If McCain could have said, "We're in the middle of the biggest crisis this country has faced in any of our lifetimes, maybe even bigger than 9/11. I'm doing what I do best -- going to work to find a solution. Meanwhile, my opponent skipped town for Mississippi, doing what he does best -- talking."
I think that would have, or could have, resonated in middle America, and reinforced the already prevalent notion that McCain is the doer, and Obama is the talker.
Helping his case would have been the fact that tonight's debate is going to be exclusively about foreign policy, which seems kind of stupid with the economy dominating the news right now. It's not irrelevant, but it sure seems that way.
obviously, it's all a moot point now.
for the least they could possibly do
I disagree with your notion on that McCain played the better game here, because I just honestly don't think McCain planned on there being a debate tonight at all. What better example of leadership to move to have a debate postponed to focus on the economy, and even more have your opponent agree to it! That would have played into the notion of Obama being a talker and McCain being a doer. It just makes no sense to me that McCain would have done what he did while still expecting there to be a debate tonight. With Washington nowhere near a deal, and his presence not seemingly called upon either by the Democratic leadership or his own party, McCain would look foolish if he stayed in Washington tonight. He's going to look like an idiot either way, so that leads me to believe that he must have thought Obama would cave. I can't see his campaign being foolish enough to try the stunt they did without that being the desired outcome.
If a deal had gone through today it probably would have been a different story, but it didn't, and a smart political move would have been to realize that that probably was not likely to happen.
And tonight's debate is definetely going to be about the economy, in large part. I don't see how it could be otherwise.
Maybe that's the whole reason for trying to delay it... McCain's best area of knowledge is obviously foreign policy, and the timing will change the focus from all foreign policy to some economy questions. Perhaps his campaign was hoping to preserve a strictly foreign policy debate.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I think you and I are both in the same ballpark ... I just believe if McCain would have stuck to his guns, there would not have been a debate tonight. I believe if push came to shove, Obama would have been forced to stay in Washington, too.
I kind of feel like, politically speaking, McCain got the ball all the way to the goal line here, and then took a knee.
Of course, there is an alternate reading to this ...
Maybe there was less political calculation in this than most people think. Obviously, if you're running for president, you have to measure how every action is going to affect the campaign, but ...
Maybe McCain went back to Washington because he really thought it was the right thing for him to do, his campaign be damned. It might be completely naive of me, but I actually think McCain -- moreso than most politicians -- really does try to follow his heart and do what is best for the country.
Maybe I'm just a sucker for his war hero story. If the guy was basically willing to sacrifice his life for what he thought was best for his country, I don't see any reason to think he wouldn't sacrifice is campaign for what he thought was good for the country.
I kind of think McCain saw his country in trouble, and didn't feel like he could sit idly by on the campaign trail while it happened. But I guess we never can really know a person's true motives.
for the least they could possibly do
But Obama beat McCain to the pass. He showed up prepared to his meeting with Bush and was seemingly the only one with a plan. While McCain sat there lost and silent in his own inept grasp of the situation. Obama clearly took the lead and outlined 5 provisions that must be met. All of which dealt with preventing CEO "golden parachutes" and ensure that regulations be placed on companies such as Fannie and Freddie and that the American Tax payer is protected and even has a shot at gaining some equity if the Banks bounce back.
McCain this morning has been largely blamed for swooping in at the last minute to torpedo what was up until late last night a done deal.
Several Senators on both sides of the floor have stated that the alternate bill that the Conservative House and McCain have put forth at the last minute was once again littered with earmarks and provisions that de-regulate rather than regulate.
It has been said that McCain's bill is weaker than Pulson's original 3-page proposel in regards to protecting the American Tax payer.
I dont' think McCain has looked good at all through this. People caught onto his bluff very early on and I'm sure that more than a few of his fellow Republican Senators rolled their eyes when McCain's so-called maverick parachute came crashing down on Washington DC yesterday.
Did they change it or something? I mean, they might have, and I just missed it.
But the first debate it supposed to be on foreign policy (in part because Obama wanted it that way).
for the least they could possibly do
This, I can agree with ... because it's all about perception. And right now, the narrative the Democrats are peddling -- and the media is buying -- is "McCain came in and wrecked the deal." And that's it's just an out and out lie.
Given the two things I mentioned above, there's no way it can be the truth.
for the least they could possibly do