I agree with my gf, but in thinking about it, especially with all the sexist talk going around lately, isn't her selection basically sexist. I mean if she looked like Bea Author, sorry Bea, do you think she would have been picked. Probably not so that would leave me to believe that her looks had more to do with it than her credentials. That is sexism. Now of course this is all speculation since we can't prove it.
True, but image is more important than record or accomplishments no matter the sex.
Remember this is as much marketing as anything else. Obama picked the older more experienced Biden to lend credibility and experience to his good looks ideas and gravitating public speaking.
McCain has credibility and experience, he needed someone young, attractive, with similar view points who could relate to voters better than him. She provides that much better than most other canidates he could have chosen from in regards to image. That's why I feel she was the choice over the others.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
My girlfriend mentioned something about Palin this morning and it got me thinking. She stated that if Sarah Palin was a man or even an older less attractive woman she would not have been selected as the VP candidate. Now this is not an attack against her and I'm not trying to diminish any of her accomplishments, just merely asking what other thought about the statement.
Have you ever doubted a MALE VP choice because of his looks? Did you wonder the same thing aboutJohn edwards for example? Just wondering.
On what I consider the only valid portion of your comment/question, certainly I believe Palin was chosen partially because she is a woman. Is that right? Not really...but at least she has the characteristics that McCain was looking for...so all things being equal, he went for a very visible means to show change.
are you kidding? people have been saying this about obama since the primaries.
I asked the OP...not kidding.
Anyhow, I don't think anyone has said Obama is good looking...look at those ears...he looks like Dennis Kucinich all grown up....and half black. They criticize (unfairly I think) Obama's personna...not his looks.
When I first heard about Palin, I was mad. I thought, "they're presenting her as a token woman to take the place of Hillary..." The idea you can just trade one vagina for another was totally appalling to me.
After I heard the speech they gave her to read, I was even angrier. Now, I think "They are presenting her as a token "bitch". That is, they think she can be the quintessential successful powerful female, who, in their minds is also a "bitch". (I really don't like to throw that word around, so I'm trying to make it clear that I'm not calling Sarah Palin a bitch. The tone of the speech, I felt, was snarky and bitchy...perfect for their sassy new VP!) And, BONUS! She's a cute little hockey mom, with a "real" story to which other mommies all around the country can relate!
So basically....I agree with your girlfriend. It is sexist.
I don't want to take away from any of her real accomplishments. She is an accomplished woman, even before this nomination. She deserves credit for juggling all that she has as a mom and a career woman, and I hope I can be half as successful when it comes time for me to try my hand at that.
I do resent the idea that some want to position her as the one to break this "glass ceiling". She is leaping up a ladder built by millions of hardworking, successful women/mothers before her, and gets to skip a few rungs because she was in the right place at the right time.
if you close your eyes when she is speaking, she sounds just like karen from will and grace.....
Oh yeah! Megan Mullaley is probably standing in front of a mirror right now, perfecting her impression and just waiting for the Lifetime Movie Network to call.
Have you ever doubted a MALE VP choice because of his looks? Did you wonder the same thing aboutJohn edwards for example? Just wondering.
On what I consider the only valid portion of your comment/question, certainly I believe Palin was chosen partially because she is a woman. Is that right? Not really...but at least she has the characteristics that McCain was looking for...so all things being equal, he went for a very visible means to show change.
Yes I have doubted male VP choices. I believe that John Edwards would not have been selected as Kerry's running mate if he wasn't a younger more attractive man. I also understand that image is extremely important, look no further than the now infamous Nixon/Kennedy debate. Not to sound stand offish but I believe the question I posed has a great deal validity to it. The issue has been brought forward that much of the criticism directed at Palin by the media is sexist in nature. This may be true, but I also feel that if Palin was not an attractive younger woman that she would have not received the VP offer. I'm not saying that McCain is some dirty perverted old man and just wanted a hot piece of ass by his side on the campaign trail or that Palin is just a pretty face with no substance, but had she been male or an older less attractive female I honestly believe she would not be on the ticket. Of course I can't prove that and it's just my assumption, and I know what they say about assumptions, but if this was the case wouldn't her selection be considered sexist.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Yes I have doubted male VP choices. I believe that John Edwards would not have been selected as Kerry's running mate if he wasn't a younger more attractive man. I also understand that image is extremely important, look no further than the now infamous Nixon/Kennedy debate. Not to sound stand offish but I believe the question I posed has a great deal validity to it. The issue has been brought forward that much of the criticism directed at Palin by the media is sexist in nature. This may be true, but I also feel that if Palin was not an attractive younger woman that she would have not received the VP offer. I'm not saying that McCain is some dirty perverted old man and just wanted a hot piece of ass by his side on the campaign trail or that Palin is just a pretty face with no substance, but had she been male or an older less attractive female I honestly believe she would not be on the ticket. Of course I can't prove that and it's just my assumption, and I know what they say about assumptions, but if this was the case wouldn't her selection be considered sexist.
I had to ask.
Here's the other reasons she had to be young (not necessarily attractive, though image does help):
1) She needed to be an energetic Washington outsider...find me an ugly old white man that can do that?
So I think, looking for energy and outsider, leads one to looking for a younger individual. Now, you still need some one with some experience (thats' what the campaign was thinking I mean) so, generally since image is important, most of the younger stars are going to be good looking or at least not repulsive. So, in reality, I think the only partially superficial choice is still the sex of the candidate, and McCain went for visible change.
Here's the other reasons she had to be young (not necessarily attractive, though image does help):
1) She needed to be an energetic Washington outsider...find me an ugly old white man that can do that?
So I think, looking for energy and outsider, leads one to looking for a younger individual. Now, you still need some one with some experience (thats' what the campaign was thinking I mean) so, generally since image is important, most of the younger stars are going to be good looking or at least not repulsive. So, in reality, I think the only partially superficial choice is still the sex of the candidate, and McCain went for visible change.
Considering his age McCain definitely needed someone young and energetic. Without sounding harsh and petty the man is not that young and definitely energetic is not an adjective that comes to mind when I think of McCain. So picking youth is definitely a positive. Picking the Washington outsider is still undecided. We have yet to see if that will hurt or help him in the end. Picking a female, while I definitely think it's great, I feel it may have been done for the wrong reason. Again can't prove it, just my assumption.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Would Obama be sending Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano and Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius to speak on his behalf if the GOP had a picked a Charlie Crist, Mitt Romney or someone similar as the VP?
I think the last think Obama ever thought he'd need was Hillary's help in this campaign.
it's not the same. the people you mentioned also were quite involved in the DNC---before palin was announced. see, the democratic party has some women in office! i know, it's amazing. gov. napolitano also had a huge role in the platform too, which happened months before the convention. they're not getting sent around because they're women. they are accomplished, intelligent and great politicians who support and want to promote obama's message. some men are even doing it too.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Yea. I think you are dead on. I also think that Obama's rise to power was racist (not in a bad way). When I say racist, I mean positive racism. Giving someone credit for being another color. Not putting them down.
If all were treated equally, it would probably be completely different race. Honestly, it probably should be.
i'm sorry, but there isn't positive racism. racism by definition is negative.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
My girlfriend mentioned something about Palin this morning and it got me thinking. She stated that if Sarah Palin was a man or even an older less attractive woman she would not have been selected as the VP candidate. Now this is not an attack against her and I'm not trying to diminish any of her accomplishments, just merely asking what other thought about the statement.
I'm sure the personal attacks from the Dems would be much less as well.
I'm sure the personal attacks from the Dems would be much less as well.
To be honest I haven't heard a lot of personal attacks level on Palin by the Dem candidates or the DNC. Yes they have attacked her credentials and her policy stances but not much in personal attacks.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
These are messageboard opinions, got any real milk!!!!
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
I'm talking about Democrats that count, the candidates, the DNC, party members. I highly doubt you are going to see Brian Williams or Chris Matthews interviewing one of us on this board to get the official line from the DNC on Palin.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I'm talking about Democrats that count, the candidates, the DNC, party members. I highly doubt you are going to see Brian Williams or Chris Matthews interviewing one of us on this board to get the official line from the DNC on Palin.
Politicians rely on bloggers to do their dirty work.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Was your "prestigious University of Idaho" not sarcasm?
Perhaps, but I'm a little puzzled as to why you might take offense to that.
I'd prefer that someone holding the office of VP possess a stronger educational background.
For any University of Idaho alumni here, I certainly do apologize. I certainly didn't mean to belittle that fine school, like someone would belittle say a community organizer or similar vocation.
Comments
True, but image is more important than record or accomplishments no matter the sex.
Remember this is as much marketing as anything else. Obama picked the older more experienced Biden to lend credibility and experience to his good looks ideas and gravitating public speaking.
McCain has credibility and experience, he needed someone young, attractive, with similar view points who could relate to voters better than him. She provides that much better than most other canidates he could have chosen from in regards to image. That's why I feel she was the choice over the others.
it depends...she has nothing to lose....
if Biden loses his cool during the debate, it's going to look like he was picking on a women....
Have you ever doubted a MALE VP choice because of his looks? Did you wonder the same thing aboutJohn edwards for example? Just wondering.
On what I consider the only valid portion of your comment/question, certainly I believe Palin was chosen partially because she is a woman. Is that right? Not really...but at least she has the characteristics that McCain was looking for...so all things being equal, he went for a very visible means to show change.
are you kidding? people have been saying this about obama since the primaries.
I asked the OP...not kidding.
Anyhow, I don't think anyone has said Obama is good looking...look at those ears...he looks like Dennis Kucinich all grown up....and half black.
After I heard the speech they gave her to read, I was even angrier. Now, I think "They are presenting her as a token "bitch". That is, they think she can be the quintessential successful powerful female, who, in their minds is also a "bitch". (I really don't like to throw that word around, so I'm trying to make it clear that I'm not calling Sarah Palin a bitch. The tone of the speech, I felt, was snarky and bitchy...perfect for their sassy new VP!) And, BONUS! She's a cute little hockey mom, with a "real" story to which other mommies all around the country can relate!
So basically....I agree with your girlfriend. It is sexist.
I don't want to take away from any of her real accomplishments. She is an accomplished woman, even before this nomination. She deserves credit for juggling all that she has as a mom and a career woman, and I hope I can be half as successful when it comes time for me to try my hand at that.
I do resent the idea that some want to position her as the one to break this "glass ceiling". She is leaping up a ladder built by millions of hardworking, successful women/mothers before her, and gets to skip a few rungs because she was in the right place at the right time.
Oh yeah!
Yes I have doubted male VP choices. I believe that John Edwards would not have been selected as Kerry's running mate if he wasn't a younger more attractive man. I also understand that image is extremely important, look no further than the now infamous Nixon/Kennedy debate. Not to sound stand offish but I believe the question I posed has a great deal validity to it. The issue has been brought forward that much of the criticism directed at Palin by the media is sexist in nature. This may be true, but I also feel that if Palin was not an attractive younger woman that she would have not received the VP offer. I'm not saying that McCain is some dirty perverted old man and just wanted a hot piece of ass by his side on the campaign trail or that Palin is just a pretty face with no substance, but had she been male or an older less attractive female I honestly believe she would not be on the ticket. Of course I can't prove that and it's just my assumption, and I know what they say about assumptions, but if this was the case wouldn't her selection be considered sexist.
I had to ask.
Here's the other reasons she had to be young (not necessarily attractive, though image does help):
1) She needed to be an energetic Washington outsider...find me an ugly old white man that can do that?
So I think, looking for energy and outsider, leads one to looking for a younger individual. Now, you still need some one with some experience (thats' what the campaign was thinking I mean) so, generally since image is important, most of the younger stars are going to be good looking or at least not repulsive. So, in reality, I think the only partially superficial choice is still the sex of the candidate, and McCain went for visible change.
"Drill baby drill"
Bush was Gov. of Texas hmmm......
Considering his age McCain definitely needed someone young and energetic. Without sounding harsh and petty the man is not that young and definitely energetic is not an adjective that comes to mind when I think of McCain. So picking youth is definitely a positive. Picking the Washington outsider is still undecided. We have yet to see if that will hurt or help him in the end. Picking a female, while I definitely think it's great, I feel it may have been done for the wrong reason. Again can't prove it, just my assumption.
it's not the same. the people you mentioned also were quite involved in the DNC---before palin was announced. see, the democratic party has some women in office! i know, it's amazing. gov. napolitano also had a huge role in the platform too, which happened months before the convention. they're not getting sent around because they're women. they are accomplished, intelligent and great politicians who support and want to promote obama's message. some men are even doing it too.
cross the river to the eastside
i'm sorry, but there isn't positive racism. racism by definition is negative.
cross the river to the eastside
I'm sure the personal attacks from the Dems would be much less as well.
To be honest I haven't heard a lot of personal attacks level on Palin by the Dem candidates or the DNC. Yes they have attacked her credentials and her policy stances but not much in personal attacks.
Please give us an actual example of a personal attack on Palin from the Democrats. I'd love to hear one example of this.
Read page one of A Moving Train
These are messageboard opinions, got any real milk!!!!
I'm talking about Democrats that count, the candidates, the DNC, party members. I highly doubt you are going to see Brian Williams or Chris Matthews interviewing one of us on this board to get the official line from the DNC on Palin.
What's wrong with the University of Idaho?
Politicians rely on bloggers to do their dirty work.
Nice sexist comment. :rolleyes:
Was your "prestigious University of Idaho" not sarcasm?
Come on give me a break. I highly doubt that the Pearl Jam message board is regularly frequented by political operatives.
You cons sure are a sensitive lot.
I'd prefer that someone holding the office of VP possess a stronger educational background.
For any University of Idaho alumni here, I certainly do apologize. I certainly didn't mean to belittle that fine school, like someone would belittle say a community organizer or similar vocation.