Dude I hate politics and I hate the current course we are on...people can go ahead and vote for Nadar or Paul or some "superior" third party candidate but the reality is...either McCain or Obama will be the next president. I pick Obama.
That is the problem. Too many people have been conditioned to believe this bullshit. We DO NOT have only two choices.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
What's wrong with offshore drilling? I seriously fail to see it. All I see are a bunch of phonies buying into the heaps of propaganda they are fed from the media every fucking day. You don't even know WHY you don't want offshore drilling.
And then you complain about high gas prices because Exxon is "corrupt."
I'll tell you what's fucked up, the fact that people believe in and have taken specific measures which prevent oil companies from building refineries and drilling, driving up the price of gas. And then bitch about how corrupt the oil companies are that they are making "record profits" but the price of gas is too high. They have one of the lowest profit margins of any industry. That's FAR from corruption.
Then on top of that, they want those same oil companies to be FORCED to spend millions of dollars to develop alternative energy, which directly conflicts with their business interest of SELLING OIL.
Best estimates is that off shore drilling in all off shore fields would yield 18 billion barrels of oil over time. Currently the US consumes a little over 20.5 million barrels of oil per day. Do the math and you will see that that is only enough oil to feed our addiction for a little over two years. Now that 18 billion barrel estimate is not what can produced each year from all of those field but what can be produced over the lifetime of those fields. So the yearly output would not be enough to even make the slightest dent in global production which is what the price per barrel is based on. Even if the amount of oil was significant best estimates is that if drilling started tomorrow we would see any impact for at least 5-7 years.
Lastly the president and all the supporters of offshore drilling sell us the idea based on the illusion that this oil will be for the US only. That is a flat out lie. That oil will go on the market to the highest bider.
So you have to wonder why he would be pushing such a solution when the only benefit would be to the companies that actually extract, refine and produce petroleum.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
the problem with america sometimes is this... everyone wants whats best, just not in their backyard. everyone wants new refineries, just not in their backyard... everyone wants more oil on the market, just dont extract it from their neighborhood...
"i love wind power farms, just dont put the turbines on my mountain or off of my shore, put them somewhere else"
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
if government is so evil, then why is Ron Paul a congressmen then?
Government is necessary. Ron Paul and many like minded individuals realize that. At the same time we also realize that government has a habit of becoming corrupt. That is why government needs to be controlled and reduced and kept to a manageable size. I can't speak for Ron paul as to why he serves in our government but I can only assume that he does so in order to do what is right for the people. He can do more to return our government back to it's original intent within the confines of the constitution by working within the government that fighting it from the outside.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Government is necessary. Ron Paul and many like minded individuals realize that. At the same time we also realize that government has a habit of becoming corrupt. That is why government needs to be controlled and reduced and kept to a manageable size. I can't speak for Ron paul as to why he serves in our government but I can only assume that he does so in order to do what is right for the people. He can do more to return our government back to it's original intent within the confines of the constitution by working within the government that fighting it from the outside.
I find that Nader has a noble intent and I admire that. He seems to be someone who has the public's best intent at heart but much of what he proposes would only increase the size of our government which is something that I can't support.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
+1 for some points made in this thread, and to the OP.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
when did changing one's mind become a bad thing...?
sadly, I think we're suffering from a bush hangover, whereas it's been pounded in our brains that changing ones position is a bad thing...you know, bushy had this way about him, where when he made a decision, he wouldn't change that decision regardless of anything...
now we have someone who actually thinks things through, who is willing to change their position, and suddenly that's bad...
oh well...I guess he shouldn't compromise with anyone for anything...
when did changing one's mind become a bad thing...?
sadly, I think we're suffering from a bush hangover, whereas it's been pounded in our brains that changing ones position is a bad thing...you know, bushy had this way about him, where when he made a decision, he wouldn't change that decision regardless of anything...
now we have someone who actually thinks thing through, who is willing to change there position, and suddenly that's bad...
oh well...I guess he shouldn't compromise with anyone for anything...
Besides the fact that it isn't really a complete change of position. He makes it very clear that it would only be considered as part of a comprehensive plan for REAL energy reform that includes a deliberate push for alternative, renewable energy sources and conservation.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Besides the fact that it isn't really a complete change of position. He makes it very clear that it would only be considered as part of a comprehensive plan for REAL energy reform that includes a deliberate push for alternative, renewable energy sources and conservation.
Thank you! Why is it that nobody seems to get this? You would think people on this board, you know the folks who think they've got it all figured out, would calm down long enough to let this sink in....
If it were up to Obama alone there would be no drilling, but that's not how our government operates. There are a lot of competing ideas on what to do, and Obama understands that he has to work with people he disagrees with - not just bash them because they don't see eye to eye.
So he will compromise in order to move forward, it's so refreshing. This is the politics of change he is speaking about.
Besides the fact that it isn't really a complete change of position. He makes it very clear that it would only be considered as part of a comprehensive plan for REAL energy reform that includes a deliberate push for alternative, renewable energy sources and conservation.
And I think it HAS to be a part of energy reform.
It's good ot have a plan for the short-term AND the long-term...not sure why it's become ok to do neither and just argue about it.
Changing your mind is natural and OK, even for politicians. Generally, when someone changes their mind, especially on something they were emphatically against a week before - I look to WHY they changed their mind.
Obama changed his for purely political reasons, in reason to opinion polls that said McCain gained on him in swing states like Florida and Virginia on this issue.
Then, to make it even worse, he has tried to PRETEND like his position hasn't changed AT ALL.
Thank you! Why is it that nobody seems to get this? You would think people on this board, you know the folks who think they've got it all figured out, would calm down long enough to let this sink in....
If it were up to Obama alone there would be no drilling, but that's not how our government operates. There are a lot of competing ideas on what to do, and Obama understands that he has to work with people he disagrees with - not just bash them because they don't see eye to eye.
So he will compromise in order to move forward, it's so refreshing. This is the politics of change he is speaking about.
me and the ncfan are seeing eye to eye on this one...
If it were up to Obama alone there would be no drilling, but that's not how our government operates. There are a lot of competing ideas on what to do, and Obama understands that he has to work with people he disagrees with - not just bash them because they don't see eye to eye.
So he will compromise in order to move forward, it's so refreshing. This is the politics of change he is speaking about.
I'm sorry, but you're ridiculous! Listen to yourself.
In early June, he tells Florida residents there will be "NO drilling while he is President" - not because it doesn't work, but for ENVIRONMENTAL reasons. Then, later he co-opts McCain's position because of poll results, and basically does a 180 on what he said weeks before, and the environmental position he was trying to take weeks prior is GONE.
And that's compromise? It's refreshing? It's refreshing to have no idea what a politician's position on ANY issue is, because he may have to change it? What if in January he says, "It would be a bad move to the pull the troops of Iraq out for security reasons? What if, next week, he flip-flops on Palestine because of OTHER politicians views? ...........After further review, he decides his tax plan, won't work. It's OK, he's compromising. It's refreshing.
Using that logic, Obama can break any campaign promise he makes if there are other political actors that want to do something else. That is the most preposterous thing I have ever heard. Even you cannot believe what you are saying. It's OK though, because if you change your mind about what you've posted here next week, you can always say you are compromising and that THIS was REALLY your position to being with. Then you'll be just like 'ole Barry.
You should just ignore this and stop posting before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself.
Thank you! Why is it that nobody seems to get this? You would think people on this board, you know the folks who think they've got it all figured out, would calm down long enough to let this sink in....
If it were up to Obama alone there would be no drilling, but that's not how our government operates. There are a lot of competing ideas on what to do, and Obama understands that he has to work with people he disagrees with - not just bash them because they don't see eye to eye.
So he will compromise in order to move forward, it's so refreshing. This is the politics of change he is speaking about.
Good points.
I don't understand why he isn't allowed to change his mind in order to please people. I am not for offshore drilling but I appreciate his willingness to compromise for the people.
Cause I'm broken when I'm lonesome
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
Good points.
I don't understand why he isn't allowed to change his mind in order to please people. I am not for offshore drilling but I appreciate his willingness to compromise for the people.
What's great about voting for an unprincipled leader is that it creates suspense. You never know what he'll do since you can't believe what he's said in the past and there are no guiding principles to predict future actions. Pretty exciting!
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Comments
That is the problem. Too many people have been conditioned to believe this bullshit. We DO NOT have only two choices.
*yawn*
about your sig...
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
if government is so evil, then why is Ron Paul a congressmen then?
Best estimates is that off shore drilling in all off shore fields would yield 18 billion barrels of oil over time. Currently the US consumes a little over 20.5 million barrels of oil per day. Do the math and you will see that that is only enough oil to feed our addiction for a little over two years. Now that 18 billion barrel estimate is not what can produced each year from all of those field but what can be produced over the lifetime of those fields. So the yearly output would not be enough to even make the slightest dent in global production which is what the price per barrel is based on. Even if the amount of oil was significant best estimates is that if drilling started tomorrow we would see any impact for at least 5-7 years.
Lastly the president and all the supporters of offshore drilling sell us the idea based on the illusion that this oil will be for the US only. That is a flat out lie. That oil will go on the market to the highest bider.
So you have to wonder why he would be pushing such a solution when the only benefit would be to the companies that actually extract, refine and produce petroleum.
he wont, he will just provide a link
the problem with america sometimes is this... everyone wants whats best, just not in their backyard. everyone wants new refineries, just not in their backyard... everyone wants more oil on the market, just dont extract it from their neighborhood...
"i love wind power farms, just dont put the turbines on my mountain or off of my shore, put them somewhere else"
Government is necessary. Ron Paul and many like minded individuals realize that. At the same time we also realize that government has a habit of becoming corrupt. That is why government needs to be controlled and reduced and kept to a manageable size. I can't speak for Ron paul as to why he serves in our government but I can only assume that he does so in order to do what is right for the people. He can do more to return our government back to it's original intent within the confines of the constitution by working within the government that fighting it from the outside.
someone should tell that to Ralph Nader
I find that Nader has a noble intent and I admire that. He seems to be someone who has the public's best intent at heart but much of what he proposes would only increase the size of our government which is something that I can't support.
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What do you mean?
Currently, offshore drilling in this area is disallowed.
Obama would consider changing that to allow drilling here.
So ... it fits in with his campaign for "change" very nicely.
for the least they could possibly do
Nader will never be president no matter what happens.
for the least they could possibly do
Nice. I guess he is an agent for change.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
when did changing one's mind become a bad thing...?
sadly, I think we're suffering from a bush hangover, whereas it's been pounded in our brains that changing ones position is a bad thing...you know, bushy had this way about him, where when he made a decision, he wouldn't change that decision regardless of anything...
now we have someone who actually thinks things through, who is willing to change their position, and suddenly that's bad...
oh well...I guess he shouldn't compromise with anyone for anything...
Besides the fact that it isn't really a complete change of position. He makes it very clear that it would only be considered as part of a comprehensive plan for REAL energy reform that includes a deliberate push for alternative, renewable energy sources and conservation.
Thank you! Why is it that nobody seems to get this? You would think people on this board, you know the folks who think they've got it all figured out, would calm down long enough to let this sink in....
If it were up to Obama alone there would be no drilling, but that's not how our government operates. There are a lot of competing ideas on what to do, and Obama understands that he has to work with people he disagrees with - not just bash them because they don't see eye to eye.
So he will compromise in order to move forward, it's so refreshing. This is the politics of change he is speaking about.
And I think it HAS to be a part of energy reform.
It's good ot have a plan for the short-term AND the long-term...not sure why it's become ok to do neither and just argue about it.
Obama changed his for purely political reasons, in reason to opinion polls that said McCain gained on him in swing states like Florida and Virginia on this issue.
Then, to make it even worse, he has tried to PRETEND like his position hasn't changed AT ALL.
This is what he said all along.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Is that better?
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
me and the ncfan are seeing eye to eye on this one...
dont forget "completely out of touch with everyone, and the 21st century, senator worth $100 million dollars"
and dont forget "and how is your bush's" money too!!!!
I'm sorry, but you're ridiculous! Listen to yourself.
In early June, he tells Florida residents there will be "NO drilling while he is President" - not because it doesn't work, but for ENVIRONMENTAL reasons. Then, later he co-opts McCain's position because of poll results, and basically does a 180 on what he said weeks before, and the environmental position he was trying to take weeks prior is GONE.
And that's compromise? It's refreshing? It's refreshing to have no idea what a politician's position on ANY issue is, because he may have to change it? What if in January he says, "It would be a bad move to the pull the troops of Iraq out for security reasons? What if, next week, he flip-flops on Palestine because of OTHER politicians views? ...........After further review, he decides his tax plan, won't work. It's OK, he's compromising. It's refreshing.
Using that logic, Obama can break any campaign promise he makes if there are other political actors that want to do something else. That is the most preposterous thing I have ever heard. Even you cannot believe what you are saying. It's OK though, because if you change your mind about what you've posted here next week, you can always say you are compromising and that THIS was REALLY your position to being with. Then you'll be just like 'ole Barry.
You should just ignore this and stop posting before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself.
I don't understand why he isn't allowed to change his mind in order to please people. I am not for offshore drilling but I appreciate his willingness to compromise for the people.
And I don't feel right when you're gone away
What's great about voting for an unprincipled leader is that it creates suspense. You never know what he'll do since you can't believe what he's said in the past and there are no guiding principles to predict future actions. Pretty exciting!