casual sex

baraka

OutOfBreath wrote:

Seems what you are on about is the way some women now claims that going the way of porn is feminism and a road to power. I will join you in a general condemnation of such. But I will never go against women for doing what we (the men) supposedly do. And in such instances, the whole man/woman divide I often find devoid of interest as when it comes to personal relationships, love sex and so on, the really important parts are personalities, experience, needs physical and mentally and it goes on. Some people are too keen on dividing between the sexes even when there are more similirities than differences.

And more interestingly, if society and relationships are going to hell, it's the womens' fault, because.... why exactly? Not putting up with having to be society's glue, while we men go and have all the fun? Why do we talk about the irresponsible women, and not the at least equally irresponsible men? Because they are evolutionary designed to be dickwads? It's an underlying traditionlist moralism hypocritically pointed towards women I find distasteful. Hence my outburst.

Yes, call me a feminist sociologist sour-puss if you want to.

Peace
Dan

Nice post, Dan. I agree that going the "playing the field" route may not be the best route, for either sex, but I see no need to 'harsh' anyone who chooses this path. You noted my only concern with all of this, the idea that the reason "society and relationships are going to hell" falls solely on the woman's shoulders. We all play our part. I actually have been puzzled by all the male vs female posts lately. Like you mentioned, there are so many variables in a relationship. Focus on the common ground and enjoy the differences.

soulsinging

OutOfBreath wrote:

Yeah, that's what they're all doing now. :rolleyes:

Because we had rights and were valued? Just a hunch. And it is not nearly as cut and dry as that, as there are many different groupings and strategies in place for women and men actually.

and like i said, going for the equal rights was a good thing. my point was not that women shouldn't want equality, my point was that both sides should be making progress, not regressing.

OutOfBreath wrote:

Not so much enabling their "whoring" (depending on your definition of it, I guess) as defending people to choose for themselves. A return to idealized women saintlyhood in their traditional roles isn't very plausible, or in my view very desirable. And aren't they taking men's jobs and voting? Didn't get that part.

that part was just a joke

OutOfBreath wrote:

Seems what you are on about is the way some women now claims that going the way of porn is feminism and a road to power. I will join you in a general condemnation of such. But I will never go against women for doing what we (the men) supposedly do.

And more interestingly, if society and relationships are going to hell, it's the womens' fault, because.... why exactly? Not putting up with having to be society's glue, while we men go and have all the fun? Why do we talk about the irresponsible women, and not the at least equally irresponsible men? Because they are evolutionary designed to be dickwads? It's an underlying traditionlist moralism hypocritically pointed towards women I find distasteful.

then apparently you haven't read any of my comments in this thread. i oppose, like you do, the porno-feminists idea... it seems unhealthy and counter-productive to equality to me. but regardless, my point was never that women should not do this and men should. in fact, if you read my posts, i have said the exact opposite. it is not women's fault, it's the whole society. and it's not just women who shouldn't do this, i don't think men should either. it seems like an unhealthy way to live to me, mentally, emotionally, and physically. im equal opportunity, that was my first sentence in the thread: "good advice for men too." im not saying men should have fun and women keep their virginity to be good housewives. im saying it seems society has moves towards a very shallow and disposable view of sex... where your partner is no more meaningful to you than a condom or a warmer and more comfrotable sex toy. i dont think that's a good thing for anyone, men or women.

BridgeBitch

Uncle Leo wrote:

Damn you!. People are wondering what I am laughing at!

Somehow, with Fanch, it always comes back to hitting it from behind. I think we could almost make a drinking game out of it. "he said hit it from behind! Drink!"

Ahnimus

If you look up the statistics, it's a staggering 8 million or so women that access internet porn every day.

fanch75

BridgeBitch wrote:

Somehow, with Fanch, it always comes back to hitting it from behind. I think we could almost make a drinking game out of it. "he said hit it from behind! Drink!"

you've picked up on a lot in your 286 posts!

OutOfBreath

soulsinging wrote:

and like i said, going for the equal rights was a good thing. my point was not that women shouldn't want equality, my point was that both sides should be making progress, not regressing.

that part was just a joke

then apparently you haven't read any of my comments in this thread. i oppose, like you do, the porno-feminists idea... it seems unhealthy and counter-productive to equality to me. but regardless, my point was never that women should not do this and men should. in fact, if you read my posts, i have said the exact opposite. it is not women's fault, it's the whole society. and it's not just women who shouldn't do this, i don't think men should either. it seems like an unhealthy way to live to me, mentally, emotionally, and physically. im equal opportunity, that was my first sentence in the thread: "good advice for men too." im not saying men should have fun and women keep their virginity to be good housewives. im saying it seems society has moves towards a very shallow and disposable view of sex... where your partner is no more meaningful to you than a condom or a warmer and more comfrotable sex toy. i dont think that's a good thing for anyone, men or women.

OK, I respect that.
But my outburst wasn't aimed at you really, it was aimed at the lady that was interviewed. And I did skip some pages of this thread I must admit, but I had to comment on the original interview. And there is an ugly tendency to only look at the women on these issues.

Anyway, I'm done venting, and you are not really my target either. We cool?

Peace
Dan

Jeanie

lucylespian wrote:

I realy missed some fun by finishing work and driving home. Iwanted to see the topless boxing !!

It seems it was more a topless boxer sparring with the kilted ref!!

I mean I wasn't really about, or topless, or boxing for that matter!!!

lucylespian wrote:

Repressed ?? I'll give you repressed, you cheeky wench !!

hehe!!! So guess I hit a nerve then?
Me thinks you doth protest too much!!!
nah!! I'm kidding lucy girl!!! Just wanted to see if I could get a bite!!! And it would appear I can!!
Oh, and there's something about being called a wench that appeals to me strangely enough!

lucylespian wrote:

I use porn as a general "i like it" word, means many things to me, all good. Food can be porn, music definilty, pretty guitars, great tones, like me new Naughty Pussy.
Now i was thinkign No Quarter was good shaggin music, just the right speed for a slow grinding , slow building tease. Was not really referring to the cheap porn thing. Led Zep is far too good for that !!

Oh and I agree completely about No Quarter.

Jeanie

soulsinging wrote:

i think your post shows less that women should be allowed to be "sluts" as it shows that men ought to rein their drives in. if one person always gets left hurt and empty and wanting more, how are one night stands a good thing? becos you got your rocks off at the expense of someone else's feelings? just seems disrespectful to me. again, i think one ought to know their honest desires and those of their partner before getting into it. otherwise, it's disrespectful to both the people involved.

ok, well I can see what you are saying ss. and I don't entirely disagree, but I will say, that each person's sexual journey is their own to decide, and it's not for me to dictate what everybody else should or shouldn't do.
so if monogamy is your deal, that's great. if meaningful sexual encounters is your deal, that's cool with me too. and if you wanna engage in meaningless sex then, that's fine with me also. I suspect like everything else, people's sexual journey changes as they experience, so perhaps learning as you go is what I would advocate. I guess I just think that some people don't always start off on the right foot and they may not always end up on the right foot but that's their journey and their choices to make.
I don't think that sex always has to meaningful to be respectful. And honesty isn't always forthcoming. Some times people are so busy lying to themselves it's unrealistic to expect them to be truthful with the people they interact with. As a few others have mentioned an individuals sexual history is their own personal journey and we should all learn to respect that and not judge people by it, because sexuality or sexual history isn't the only part of a person.

Staceb10

whispering hands wrote:

all I can say is I think casual sex is dangerous, and I must admit I hold high esteem for those who choose NOT to participate in it.. I think in all respects that those people are wise and very respectable. ( not that those who DO engage in casual sex aren't these things, just that I don't know how one could respect themselves after just dishing themselves out like a fast food platter). Anyhow I feel it is a horrid lack of self esteem that drives one to just lie down for or with another when they know nothing about the person they lie with.. it's almost as if that is their validation, ( oh this person will sleep with me I must not be that bad sorta thing..) and that TO ME ( and I streessss that this is only MY opinion) is sad.

I disagree. Sure if you are out at clubs every weekend picking up different random guys all the time that is dangerous and you probably have some serious validation issues. However, not everyone that engages in no-strings attached sex is "dishing themselves out like a fast food platter." Men have for years and years been able to sleep with women casually without anyone thinking they are dishing themselves out. It is possible to have a strong physical attraction to someone and enjoy the sex for the act itself and not for some validation that you are worthy of someone else's attention.

soulsinging

OutOfBreath wrote:

OK, I respect that.
But my outburst wasn't aimed at you really, it was aimed at the lady that was interviewed. And I did skip some pages of this thread I must admit, but I had to comment on the original interview. And there is an ugly tendency to only look at the women on these issues.

Anyway, I'm done venting, and you are not really my target either. We cool?

Peace
Dan

we never weren't. just wanted to explain myself. im prone to ranting myself and i agree women tend to be the only ones who spark this kind of examination, cos many people are still not comfortable with open female sexuality. thus, while someone may disagree with disposable, cheap sex, women doing it will provoke outrage while guys doing it will only provoke some eye-rolling.

soulsinging

Jeanie wrote:

ok, well I can see what you are saying ss. and I don't entirely disagree, but I will say, that each person's sexual journey is their own to decide, and it's not for me to dictate what everybody else should or shouldn't do.
so if monogamy is your deal, that's great. if meaningful sexual encounters is your deal, that's cool with me too. and if you wanna engage in meaningless sex then, that's fine with me also. I suspect like everything else, people's sexual journey changes as they experience, so perhaps learning as you go is what I would advocate. I guess I just think that some people don't always start off on the right foot and they may not always end up on the right foot but that's their journey and their choices to make.
I don't think that sex always has to meaningful to be respectful. And honesty isn't always forthcoming. Some times people are so busy lying to themselves it's unrealistic to expect them to be truthful with the people they interact with. As a few others have mentioned an individuals sexual history is their own personal journey and we should all learn to respect that and not judge people by it, because sexuality or sexual history isn't the only part of a person.

im not trying to pass judgment on anyone. but does the fact that people should learn their own journey mean we should never tell kids drugs are dangerous, cos it's their journey and they will learn from it? im not advocating regulating behavior or judging people based on it. im talking about open dialogue and encouraging healthy choices and honesty. my point was that people lie to themselves often, cos a lot of their input comes from confused adolescent friends or pop media or puritanical idelogues. when what we really need is to encourage people to talk frankly about sex and be honest with themselves about what they want from it. everyone is going to make mistakes, but that doesn't mean we can't make an effort to minimize them by talking with our friends or children about what our values truly are.

soulsinging

Staceb10 wrote:

I disagree. Sure if you are out at clubs every weekend picking up different random guys all the time that is dangerous and you probably have some serious validation issues. However, not everyone that engages in no-strings attached sex is "dishing themselves out like a fast food platter." Men have for years and years been able to sleep with women casually without anyone thinking they are dishing themselves out. It is possible to have a strong physical attraction to someone and enjoy the sex for the act itself and not for some validation that you are worthy of someone else's attention.

my question is, should women thus try to be more like men, or should men try to be more like women? by saying that the only way to equality for women is to behave like men and mimic their lifestyle, you are essentially validating a patriarchal culture/value system and subjugating women to conform to male standards of sexuality, which have more to do with power dynamics than actual sexuality. you're essentially conceding that male sexuality is the only legit sexuality, you're just doing away with their restrictions on women. everyone is still adhering to male views though.

i think the wiser course is to temper and do away with the extremes of the rigid male system: either as much sex as you can get (for men) or never except for marriage (for women). your argument does nothing but cancel the second half and still subject everyone to the male vision of sexuality. what should be happening is equality: women defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires, and men defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires.

as to the subject of the article, im not convinced this is what women really want. i dont have any mathematical evidence for it, it's just observations of people i know and things i have seen. i see this push essentially as growing pains as women move towards truly equal sexuality. im also not convinced the complementary male culture is what they really want either, again based on what i have seen. i see the male culture (of date rape and alcohol induced partners) as a kind of reactive growing pain in response to fear. just like southern racists clinging to a dying way of life in the 50s, these are men trying to cling to the old boy network way of living in the face of social change. i see this all as awkward stages on the way to something better, not the end in and of itself. but if we simply accept that "ok, we're here, we're done, this is all we ever asked for and wanted" we will become complacent and stop moving forward and traditional gender roles will persist becos we never moved past them. just abolished one category and tried to squeeze everyone into the other.

BridgeBitch

fanch75 wrote:

you've picked up on a lot in your 286 posts!

I pay attention... and I'm a part-time lurker

stonesgstring

soulsinging wrote:

are you suggesting that it is a GOOD thing that women now are getting drunk for the sole purpose of getting the courage to do something they wouldn't be willing to do otherwise? is that a healthy sexual practice?

i've always been of the mind that if you won't do it sober, you shouldn't be doing it drunk. so i cant see how this hookup culture is a positive thing. one night stands with people you met mere hours before while under the influence is a bad idea, no matter how safe you think you're being.

What happens if you are completely sober and you have casual sex?

I think it's great to have casual sex personally. Not everyone wants to be in a relationship, and I don't see why they should restrain from having sex.

Fuck buddies are great!

Staceb10

soulsinging wrote:

my question is, should women thus try to be more like men, or should men try to be more like women? by saying that the only way to equality for women is to behave like men and mimic their lifestyle, you are essentially validating a patriarchal culture/value system and subjugating women to conform to male standards of sexuality, which have more to do with power dynamics than actual sexuality. you're essentially conceding that male sexuality is the only legit sexuality, you're just doing away with their restrictions on women. everyone is still adhering to male views though.

It isn't about acting like men acting like women or vice versa. I'm just saying that people regardless of gender can make responsible, sober, unemotional decisions to have sex without being in a relationship with the other person without having low self-esteem or validation issues.

i think the wiser course is to temper and do away with the extremes of the rigid male system: either as much sex as you can get (for men) or never except for marriage (for women). your argument does nothing but cancel the second half and still subject everyone to the male vision of sexuality. what should be happening is equality: women defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires, and men defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires.

Actually that's what I'm saying too. I didn't mean that everyone should go out and just have sex with everything that walks because they "can" without judgement. I think that everyone's sexuality should be based on honesty about their own desires and respect for others. I am comfortable with the idea of casual sex but I haven't had sex in about a year because I won't go out and just pick someone up at a bar. For me casual is more about not being involved in a "relationship" than just taking home people from bars.

soulsinging

stonesgstring wrote:

What happens if you are completely sober and you have casual sex?

I think it's great to have casual sex personally. Not everyone wants to be in a relationship, and I don't see why they should restrain from having sex.

Fuck buddies are great!

*sigh*

as i've stated repeatedly, there is a large difference between casual sex/fuck buddies/friends with benefits and drunken one night stands with strangers.

soulsinging

Staceb10 wrote:

It isn't about acting like men acting like women or vice versa. I'm just saying that people regardless of gender can make responsible, sober, unemotional decisions to have sex without being in a relationship with the other person without having low self-esteem or validation issues.

Actually that's what I'm saying too. I didn't mean that everyone should go out and just have sex with everything that walks because they "can" without judgement. I think that everyone's sexuality should be based on honesty about their own desires and respect for others. I am comfortable with the idea of casual sex but I haven't had sex in about a year because I won't go out and just pick someone up at a bar. For me casual is more about not being involved in a "relationship" than just taking home people from bars.

then what is the issue here? this is exactly what i've been saying since page one. i've admitted my subject line was misleading. im talking about hookup culture... going home with total strangers you meet at the bar or whatever. i was not implying you should never have sex outside of a relationship or you're a whore. i see nothing wrong with responsible and honest decisions to engage in casual sex. it's not the lifestyle i want anymore, but if other people enjoy it, more power to them. it's the fucking total strangers that seems ridiculous to me, for men or women.

lucylespian

Someone mentioned low self esteem here.
I have met one young lady who fucked absolutely everything that moved, except that she was a pretty big girl, so I think that mostly they just lay squashed flat while she fucked them. I thought at the time that she had serious self-esteem issues whish she was try to assauge by proving herself desirable. (sex addict, if you like)

However, I really find she was an exceptional case, and in the group of ten or so that hung out, she was the only one who did this, even though most of them had sex when it suited them. They were on working ( i mistyped that "woring", before i corrected it) holiday, and they all drank a LOT, etc, but she was the only one with those characteristics.

decides2dream

soulsinging wrote:

*sigh*

as i've stated repeatedly, there is a large difference between casual sex/fuck buddies/friends with benefits and drunken one night stands with strangers.

a one night stand with a stranger, in and of itslef, is not the problem. in fact, unless done over and over...i think it one of the easiest and least likely to cause harm scenarios. in fact, in my lifetime, i have only had one *pure* one night stand...and it was easy, and exactly what we both wanted/expected......sex, pure and simple. it is actually when done with someone i care about, even 'just friends'...that difficulties arose. inevitably, someone always wants 'more'...whether the male or the female....complications. or simply, i guess some degree of regret....along the lines of 'what was i thinking?'...hahaha...but evenso, if physically satisfying, or met some 'need'....no biggie.


perhaps far too many are not honest with themselves, or their partners...to truly express what the WANT. one should not go into a one night stand with any expectation beyond sexual gratification. this should feel like using someone, if it is mutual. beyond that, it does indeed get complicated...but male/female relations usually do if it is anything beyond physical. i have experienced personally the full gamut of emitions, and sure.....it CAN hurt. however, i will take the hurt...b/c it means i feel, i am alive, and i care. and sure, sometimes one needs to get laid. honesty and communication is ALWAYS where it should be at...and we humans, male and female a like...fall short often on that. it is what it is. so no, i don't think women should try to be like men, or vice versa...i just think people should try to be real, and most importantly, honest with themselves. probably the hardest thing to do.


we ALL get hurt, we simply hurt b/c we lay ourselves bare. this can occur with casual sex...with longterm relationships...with anytime we open ourselves to someone outside ourselves. as much as it pains me, i WILL take it, time and again...b/c it is worth it to me. and sure....LOVE is where it's at, always, first and foremost...but sure....sometimes....'for now sex' works wonders. i'd far prefer sex with love....love with sex....but we can't always get what we want. so sure, i am all for sharing info...but we all need to wanlk our own road when it comes to sex and love...and there's no one right way.

OutOfBreath

decides2dream, I swear, were I single
Lovely post.

But ss, dont you think you may be overestimating the importance and prevalence of this "hook-up culture"? This thread did start with a reactionary woman lamenting general moral decay of society (while being a hypocrite). It's not hard to misunderstand your intent from there.

And indeed, if you exclude fuck friends and the not-exactly-serious relationships, then honestly, I dont think there is much left, far less to be called a "culture" if it's just something that people may do a couple of times in their lifetimes.

I could go on, but d2d said it for me already.

Peace
Dan