B. Palin's pregnancy -- Is it fair to discuss? Is it relevant?

123457»

Comments

  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Having your kids informed and actually giving them the condom are 2 very different things.

    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just working my way through figuring out what I'd do, I have some time to get ready for it though, thankfully.

    I do agree with your anti-drug/alcohol statement. In that scenario though, they've already made a poor decision and you are protecting them from making a bigger one. This could be a direct corelation to the sex issue, but it may not be. I have to think abotu that...good post.

    I think D2D's analogy is a great one. I will tell my kids not to drink at all, but I'll also give them the # to Safe Ride in case they do and they need a ride home. That's different than giving them the alcohol itself, just like giving them birth control is different than providing them with a naked, horny teenager and an hour in a motel.
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    I know. If only there were a way people who didn't want their children could bring them to term and have them, and then give them to people who want children, but for whatever reason can't have them.

    If only someone would invent such a system. But, alas, no such fantasy land exists.

    Abort, away!

    The foster care system is fucked in this country. Nearly half of foster children will eventually be homeless, and a large percentage face physical and sexual abuse while in the system. Additionally, it's not quite as simple as you put it. Private adoption agencies, which are usually safer cost money which many pregnant women who have abortions don't have. Additionally, many small towns do not have adequate foster care systems established, leaving the mothers without that option.

    So yeah, when the foster care system is cleaned up in this nation, maybe we could have a meaningful discussion. Nice use of sarcasm, though.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I heard about parents giving their kids promise rings and bracelets as a vow to their parents that they willl remain virgins until they are married. Like, the father and his daughter each wear a ring.

    1. Creepy.
    2. They surveyed the participants and guess what -- the kids still had sex. Shocker.
    ...
    So... guess what they do?
    The gals give hand jobs, blow jobs and butt fuck.
    Technically... they ARE still virgins.
    ...
    Teens will always find a way to justify their behaviour. Haven't ALL adults been teenagers? Have they forgotten? Or blocked it all out?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    So, you're telling me that if your 15-17 year old daughter came to you and asked you to buy her condoms or start the pill, you just go ahead and git 'er done?

    I can honestly say, I have no idea what I would do in that case.

    I would probably sit down with her and talk to her about safe sex and STDs and how teenage boys get be the biggest fucking scumbags and will lie, cheat, steal and kill to get in her pants. I would then get her the birth control along with one of these http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Browning_Auto-5_20g_Mag.jpg

    When said boyfriend shows up, i would pull him aside and politely tell him that if my daughter gets hurt, infected or pregnant by him I would introduce his mushroom cap to the muzzle of my new Browning 20 gauge.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Having your kids informed and actually giving them the condom are 2 very different things.

    Don't get me wrong, I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just working my way through figuring out what I'd do, I have some time to get ready for it though, thankfully.

    I do agree with your anti-drug/alcohol statement. In that scenario though, they've already made a poor decision and you are protecting them from making a bigger one. This could be a direct corelation to the sex issue, but it may not be. I have to think abotu that...good post.


    personally, i really don't think so. beyond that, i don't think it necessary to GIVE them condoms or BC pills, etc.....just to let them know IF it comes down to them deciding they DO want to have intercourse, even after your long discussion of the pros/cons.....that they absolutely should feel comfortable going and buying condoms, asking you for em....asking to be taken to the gyno to go on the pill, etc. whatever it takes.


    however, i also do completely understand the conundrum as a parent, and it's easy for me to say all this since i will never be faced with this. as an objective outsider, it's something i would like to see done, regularly, and i think it would do wonders to protect your children and their future reproduction when they WANT to reproduce, if ever.

    also, i wasn't saying there is a correlation, just that the 2 ideas are a bit aligned. yes, the poor decision was already made with drinking/drugs...but you are hopefully stopping further poor decisions with stronger repercussions, but asking them to come to you rather than get behind the wheel. for me, it is similar. obviously you talk and infomr your child of the dangers of sex, the temptations, the disease, pregnancy, etc.....but also arm them with information where/how they can help themselvs, and that yes....when it comes down to it...they CAN come to you for assistance.

    wouldn't you far rather assist your daughter getting on the pill than having an abortion or becoming a very young grandfather? yes, yes, abstinence is a great idea.....but again, think to your own past....and was abstinence your choice? if it wasn't why would you think your child would choose differently? and me...i rather go with 'just in case'....b/c even if your morals are against it, if you teach them well...they might just make the choices you want, but just in case they don't.....they know what to do.


    good luck. :)
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    So... guess what they do?
    The gals give hand jobs, blow jobs and butt fuck.
    Technically... they ARE still virgins.
    ...
    Teens will always find a way to justify their behaviour. Haven't ALL adults been teenagers? Have they forgotten? Or blocked it all out?

    These Puritanical, Religious extremists don't think in terms of human nature.

    They think in some demented, self-righteous, glorified standard that they themselves can't even live up to. But of course they want everyone else to live up to it and are so vicious with their judgement of others.

    Assholes.
  • scb wrote:
    I'm not sure I get what you're saying here.

    But all I'm saying is that the "here's some factual information about birth control BUT YOU BETTER NOT EVER USE IT!!!" approach isn't as effective as one based in reality.

    So should it be "here's some factual information about birth control go ahead and get laid"? I'm just saying that a "In my opinion you are too young to fully understand the consequences of a sexual relationship and I do not condone you having sex but when and if you do decide to have sex I want you to be educated on your options" would be just as realisitic. My mother chose the abstinence only speech and I chose the option of not being abstinent and I suffered the consequences of my actions. I didn't get pregnant because my mom said "you shouldn't have sex until your married". I got pregnant because I was YOUNG AND STUPID and didn't use the birth control options available.
  • wouldn't you far rather assist your daughter getting on the pill than having an abortion or becoming a very young grandfather? yes, yes, abstinence is a great idea.....but again, think to your own past....and was abstinence your choice? if it wasn't why would you think your child would choose differently? and me...i rather go with 'just in case'....b/c even if your morals are against it, if you teach them well...they might just make the choices you want, but just in case they don't.....they know what to do.


    good luck. :)


    As I said before, I'm thinking aloud here...getting input/feedback...learning...trying to figure out what I believe and what I'd do.

    I'm I guy...I never get to choose when I have sex. ;) I have a daughter...she will.

    I see all the value in all of this, just wondering what's the right path for me to take. There's never only 1 road that leads to the desired destination.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Here is a good commentary by Roland Martin an the whole Bristol Palin and teen pregnancy issue.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/02/martin.pregnancy/index.html
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    someone may have said this over the course of the 14 page thread, but this is my thought on the original topic.

    should we make a campaign issue out of the daughter getting pregnant?

    in a perfect world where everyone would take the high road i would say no. BUT you have to ask yourself this. in a campaign would the other side use that as ammunition against you. in this case the answer is absolutely yes. if this were the godless obama's daughter the gop would be all over it and they would be unmerciful. especially if rove was masterminding the campaign. i think that this development reeks of hypocracy and shows that the platform of abstinance only education obviously does not work, and that the mccain campaign has no legs to stand on when it comes to family values and preventing premarital sex/pregnancies. this would be like obama breaking all of the ethics laws he had helped to draft or pass and had spoken so often about.

    it sucks that it happened to this girl and that it is now out there for public consumption and she is being judged by the rest of the country, but it just goes to prove that you can't preach one way and live another way without it eventually backfiring on you.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • someone may have said this over the course of the 14 page thread, but this is my thought on the original topic.

    should we make a campaign issue out of the daughter getting pregnant?

    in a perfect world where everyone would take the high road i would say no. BUT you have to ask yourself this. in a campaign would the other side use that as ammunition against you. in this case the answer is absolutely yes. if this were the godless obama's daughter the gop would be all over it and they would be unmerciful. especially if rove was masterminding the campaign. i think that this development reeks of hypocracy and shows that the platform of abstinance only education obviously does not work, and that the mccain campaign has no legs to stand on when it comes to family values and preventing premarital sex/pregnancies. this would be like obama breaking all of the ethics laws he had helped to draft or pass and had spoken so often about.

    it sucks that it happened to this girl and that it is now out there for public consumption and she is being judged by the rest of the country, but it just goes to prove that you can't preach one way and live another way without it eventually backfiring on you.


    If everyone thought like you nothing would be off limits.

    And you are making a ton of assumptions.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    Staceb10 wrote:
    So should it be "here's some factual information about birth control go ahead and get laid"? I'm just saying that a "In my opinion you are too young to fully understand the consequences of a sexual relationship and I do not condone you having sex but when and if you do decide to have sex I want you to be educated on your options" would be just as realisitic.

    Well I think we agree on that last option. But I think that's different than the "You better not ever do it!!!" approach. There are different kinds of abstinence speeches, with different attitudes/messages attached.
    Staceb10 wrote:
    My mother chose the abstinence only speech and I chose the option of not being abstinent and I suffered the consequences of my actions. I didn't get pregnant because my mom said "you shouldn't have sex until your married". I got pregnant because I was YOUNG AND STUPID and didn't use the birth control options available.

    Well my parents taught me quite a bit about the birds and the bees and contraception, etc. But they also gave me the "YOU'D BETTER NOT EVER HAVE SEX UNTIL YOU'RE MARRIED!!" speech a lot. I only wish that when I did start having sex I had been able to talk to my parents. They could have made birth control a lot more available (I didn't feel like it was an available option at all) and helped me be responsible. I'm not suggesting that it's my parents' fault I got pregnant - just that they could have helped me to not get pregnant instead of helping me get an abortion. I'm sure they would have preferred that as well.

    People so badly want to protect their children, and I truly believe that giving them knowledge of and access to birth control is the way to do that.
  • ofthegirl75ofthegirl75 New Jersey Posts: 315

    If Sarah Palin wants to control the way our children receive sex education, and wants to alter or take away our reproductive rights so that there are no "choices" to make, how can she ask us not to discuss the choices her own family has made? If these are private matters for her family, why shouldn't they be for mine?

    My little 2 cents is that Sarah Palin has enough on her plate with 5 kids -1 with down syndrome and a pregnant teenager. I would put my family first. I would say lack of parenting lead to a pregnant teen. She has other daughters. Could we expect them to get pregnant as well?
    Their big sister was a role model for them.

    What happened to the supposed moral values that her family has? Why would the Rebublicans support her?

    Is she the right woman for job? Hell no!

    My opinion=don't hate on me!
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    My little 2 cents is that Sarah Palin has enough on her plate with 5 kids -1 with down syndrome and a pregnant teenager. I would put my family first. I would say lack of parenting lead to a pregnant teen. She has other daughters. Could we expect them to get pregnant as well?
    Their big sister was a role model for them.

    What happened to the supposed moral values that her family has? Why would the Rebublicans support her?

    Is she the right woman for job? Hell no!

    My opinion=don't hate on me!

    whatever happened to personal accountability???????

    thats what wrong with most of you and this country

    blame the parents because the kid made a bad decision...fuck that!

    ive made bad decisions and never once blamed my parents, they raised me the best they could, but if i screwed up that was on me
  • ofthegirl75ofthegirl75 New Jersey Posts: 315
    pjalive21 wrote:
    whatever happened to personal accountability???????

    thats what wrong with most of you and this country

    blame the parents because the kid made a bad decision...fuck that!

    ive made bad decisions and never once blamed my parents, they raised me the best they could, but if i screwed up that was on me

    I am not blaming her. But this is the party that supposedly stands on such high moral ground.
    Is it ok now to get pregnant at 17?
    I don't believe the girl only fooled around once.
  • Possibly the last word on this subject ...

    Teen pregnancy's new twist
    By Natalie Pompilio

    For The Inquirer

    A mother announces that her 17-year-old unmarried daughter is pregnant, and suddenly the most conservative of thinkers are praising her. Her parents say they're proud she'll be keeping the baby. Others note that the Palins are truly "an American family."

    There was a time when girls like Bristol Palin were whisked off in the dark of night, taken to isolated locations to give birth, then reintroduced into society.

    Now Bristol is sharing the spotlight as the country decides if her mother, the Republican governor of Alaska Sarah Palin, will be the nation's vice president.

    Have times changed so much?

    Pat Paluzzi, who directs a nonprofit that works with pregnant and parenting teenagers, doesn't think so. The public seems to be treating the Palin situation with a compassion many pregnant teenagers don't experience.

    "I don't think teen pregnancy is more acceptable to us as a society. I say that because of the continued lack of support for parenting teens," said Paluzzi, of the Baltimore-based Healthy Teen Network. She said 450,000 teens in the United States give birth annually. "We do vilify other pregnant parenting teens. We don't want to support them. They're saying, 'We all have teenagers. It could happen to anybody.' But where is that attitude when you think about the 449,999 other babies born to teenage mothers each year?"

    Teen pregnancy has been making headlines for the last nine months, starting in December, when Jamie Lynn Spears - Britney's little sister and the alleged "good one" - announced her due date. It was followed by Academy Award accolades for Juno, a movie about a spunky teen who decides to offer her baby up for adoption.

    Then came news of an alleged "pregnancy pact" at a Massachusetts high school, and the release of new statistics for 2006 showing the teen pregnancy rate had risen nationally for the first time in decades, by about 3 percent.

    And now Bristol Palin.

    But Palin is not the typical pregnant teenager.

    "To have Bristol Palin be the poster child for teen pregnancy is very inaccurate and sends a wrong and potentially harmful message," said Joe Fay, executive director of the Pennsylvania Committee to Prevent Pregnancy. "People get the impression that it's not a big deal because she has family support and they're proud of her and everything is going to be fine. For most girls, it's a struggle to be a single mom."

    The teen birth rate actually peaked in the 1950s, Fay said. The difference was that in about 80 percent of those cases, the teenage parents were already married. Or they would marry later, the husband leaving school to take a job at a local factory, Fay said. "But now those jobs don't exist and it's virtually impossible for a single mother to raise a child on her own."

    Today about 80 percent of pregnant teens are not married, and expectations that they will marry the child's father are lower. About 70 percent of pregnant teenagers come from poor and low-income families. A study by Fay's organization determined pregnant teens cost Pennsylvania $380 million a year, Fay said.

    On the other hand, Bill Albert, deputy director of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, said Palin's pregnancy was an eye-opener that could lead to teachable moments between parents and their teenagers.

    "A lot of people have labored under the misperception that teen pregnancy is 'those girls' ' problem or it happens in 'that community,' " Albert said. "If it can happen to the daughter of a vice presidential nominee, I think it suggests to all of us that teen pregnancy happens everywhere."

    Andrea O'Reilly, a women's studies professor and the director of the Association for Research on Mothering in Canada, noted that the Republicans' spin made a difference as to how it was perceived.

    "She's being presented as someone who made a good choice because she's keeping the baby," O'Reilly said of Bristol Palin. "If Clinton's daughter had been pregnant, it would have been spun differently, like, 'Look what happens to the kids of working moms.' "

    And many pundits have projected that a teenage pregnant Obama daughter would have garnered a significantly less enthusiastic response.

    Paluzzi said race and class play major roles in the acceptance of teen pregnancy, but what matters most to her is what's next.

    "Where should the conversation go from here?" she asked. "Is this going to translate into some compassion for pregnant teenagers, some love and support? It would be fabulous."

    Find this article at:
    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/magazine/20080904_Teen_pregnancy_s_new_twist.html?adString=inq.entertainment/magazine;!category=magazine;&randomOrd=090408073425
    "Information is not knowledge.
    Knowledge is not wisdom.
    Wisdom is not truth.
    Truth is not beauty.
    Beauty is not love.
    Love is not music.
    Music is the best."
    ~ FZ ~
  • __ Posts: 6,651
    The public seems to be treating the Palin situation with a compassion many pregnant teenagers don't experience.

    I think this is one of the primary points of this whole discussion. The Republican, Religious Right, abstinence-only sex ed faction is usually quick to unfairly gerneralize and paint pregnant teenagers & their families in a negative light.

    Teenagers get pregnant in all walks of life. It doesn't mean they lack family values. It doesn't mean they're irresponsible sluts. It doesn't even mean they have bad parents.

    Why can't we treat all pregnant teenagers (and others who are unintentionally pregnant) with the same compassion we have for Bristol Palin?
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    Possibly the last word on this subject ...


    And many pundits have projected that a teenage pregnant Obama daughter would have garnered a significantly less enthusiastic response.

    Ain't THAT the fucking truth. I don't even want to think about the fury from the Religious Right if this had been the case. It makes my head hurt to think about it.
  • As I said before, I'm thinking aloud here...getting input/feedback...learning...trying to figure out what I believe and what I'd do.

    I'm I guy...I never get to choose when I have sex. ;) I have a daughter...she will.

    I see all the value in all of this, just wondering what's the right path for me to take. There's never only 1 road that leads to the desired destination.



    tis a old joke...but quite honestly, not all that true.
    many, many girls are pressured extensively....some girls actually forced.....and sure, believe it or not....sometimes we girls/women want it and our guys don't. another topic entirely tho. ;)


    in all seriousness.....we ALL, hopefully, 'choose' when we have sex. and boy or girl, it is BEST to be prepared to face that choice and not make a decision on the fly......hmmm, unintential pun. :p


    i DO agree though, there are many roads one may take to get where you want to go. in such an instance tho, with sooo much at stake....i'd be ALL for OVER-preparation.


    as i said...i just think back to my past, when i lost my virginity....when my sisters, friends, etc.......and i just think, WHY would today's kids make really any different choices? so i would be ALL about getting education AND BC in their hands. i just far rather they make informed choices...and are protected.



    btw - i do believe that girls lose thier virginity, on average, at younger ages than boys, overall. if you think about it, it makes 'sense'...b/c girls usually date older boys. i haven't looked at such stats in a long time, but i would be most curious what the average age is for such....and beyond that, the average age for any sexual contact, b/c i think THAT is getting younger and younger. i remember back when i was teaching, hearing about an 8th grade dance at another school that afterwards ended in a 'rainbow party'.....:eek: 8th grade. it ain't just about pregnancy...disease is quite a scary issue as well, and that does not require simply intercourse either.



    and...

    scb wrote:
    I think this is one of the primary points of this whole discussion. The Republican, Religious Right, abstinence-only sex ed faction is usually quick to unfairly gerneralize and paint pregnant teenagers & their families in a negative light.

    Teenagers get pregnant in all walks of life. It doesn't mean they lack family values. It doesn't mean they're irresponsible sluts. It doesn't even mean they have bad parents.

    Why can't we treat all pregnant teenagers (and others who are unintentionally pregnant) with the same compassion we have for Bristol Palin?




    i really am not religious...but i just can't help but say AMEN! :D
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • __ Posts: 6,651
    btw - i do believe that girls lose thier virginity, on average, at younger ages than boys, overall. if you think about it, it makes 'sense'...b/c girls usually date older boys. i haven't looked at such stats in a long time, but i would be most curious what the average age is for such....and beyond that, the average age for any sexual contact, b/c i think THAT is getting younger and younger. i remember back when i was teaching, hearing about an 8th grade dance at another school that afterwards ended in a 'rainbow party'.....:eek: 8th grade. it ain't just about pregnancy...disease is quite a scary issue as well, and that does not require simply intercourse either.

    I don't have any data on age at initiation of sex for girls vs. boys, but here is some significant info I read recently from the 2003 CDC Youth Behavior Risk Survey:

    In a study of 6 U.S. cities (DC, Miami, Milwaukee, San Bernadino, & San Francisco), the median percentages of kids who had ever had sex were...

    6th grade - 10%
    7th grade - 19.9%
    8th grade - 33.4%

    In the same study, the median percentages of kids who had had sex with 3 or more partners were...

    6th grade - 3.9%
    7th grade - 8.9%
    8th grade - 12.2%

    My point: KIDS ARE HAVING SEX.

    I once knew a pregnant 12-year-old whose family told me she had only had sex the one time, consentually, with a friend her age. When I got her alone and said we needed to know how many different people she had had sex with she said, "It was either 3 or 5 but I'm not sure if 2 of them went in." She also didn't know what her vagina was and told me, "It itches on my, uh... on my, uh... on my hootchie."

    My point: KIDS NEED BETTER SEX EDUCATION.
Sign In or Register to comment.