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Thoughts about this......or happen to anyone else?

EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
edited December 2006 in A Moving Train
tell me how this works: You have a grievance counsellor who is working with people who have lost both thier parents. You are working in a group, there are about 15 people in this group, all have lost both their parents. I ask the counsellor " Have you lost anyone close to you?" She replies " No, but a friend of mine lost her grandmother last year and that was hard on her, I could tell."

I never went back. I just couldn't get past that and there fore wouldn't care about anything she had to say.

I feel some things you can only teach through life experiences.
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    i think counsellors are suppose to be neutral and objective.
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  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    I don't know... I guess if you haven't experience the loss of someone close, a loved one, you don't really know what it's like. I didn't know.

    But on the other hand, when my grandparents died (who were like parents to me, they raised me), a listening ear could do a lot, the support I felt was amezing though I felt they couldn't really know what it was like, it didn't matter, they were there whenever I needed them. They helped me get through it all.

    And you say it's in a group, so they do know what it's like and I noticed when my parents divorced that a conversation with someone who had been through it as well or just listening to that person was also very helpful.

    But I think you should find some place where you do feel comfortable or more comfortable.

    Sorry about your loss.

    I don't know if this will help you or not.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • bryanfurybryanfury Posts: 460
    sometimes i wonder about counsellors.

    i ahd one speaking to a group of us that got robbed at a bank. after 20 minutes of 4 girls sobbing like babies, this wacko says "well, it sound sliek everyone is doing pretty well".

    i actually said, "is that what you got out of this?"

    a text book can't tell you about someone's feelings. the best counsellor is a good friend.
    those undecided, needn't have faith to be free
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Earthgirl wrote:
    tell me how this works: You have a grievance counsellor who is working with people who have lost both thier parents. You are working in a group, there are about 15 people in this group, all have lost both their parents. I ask the counsellor " Have you lost anyone close to you?" She replies " No, but a friend of mine lost her grandmother last year and that was hard on her, I could tell."

    I never went back. I just couldn't get past that and there fore wouldn't care about anything she had to say.

    I feel some things you can only teach through life experiences.

    I agree with you.
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Earthgirl wrote:
    tell me how this works: You have a grievance counsellor who is working with people who have lost both thier parents. You are working in a group, there are about 15 people in this group, all have lost both their parents. I ask the counsellor " Have you lost anyone close to you?" She replies " No, but a friend of mine lost her grandmother last year and that was hard on her, I could tell."

    I never went back. I just couldn't get past that and there fore wouldn't care about anything she had to say.

    I feel some things you can only teach through life experiences.

    "You can't understand!"

    "You've never experienced it!"

    "What do you know anyway?"

    "Fuck off!"

    What does that accomplish?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • iluvcatsiluvcats Posts: 5,153
    Earthgirl wrote:
    tell me how this works: You have a grievance counsellor who is working with people who have lost both thier parents. You are working in a group, there are about 15 people in this group, all have lost both their parents. I ask the counsellor " Have you lost anyone close to you?" She replies " No, but a friend of mine lost her grandmother last year and that was hard on her, I could tell."

    I never went back. I just couldn't get past that and there fore wouldn't care about anything she had to say.

    I feel some things you can only teach through life experiences.

    I've had a very rude and stuck up counselor before.

    I'm sorry that happened to you :(
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    Ahnimus wrote:
    "You can't understand!"

    "You've never experienced it!"

    "What do you know anyway?"

    "Fuck off!"

    What does that accomplish?


    I hope you are not assuming that this is my attitude or the way I act. I am not imature. I simply chose not to go back because I felt that for myself it would work better if I talked or shared with someone who had also experienced a loss.. this doesn't mean I don't value anyone else's opinion. I've had a lot of friends that have helped me through my losses and a lot of them have never lost anyone.

    Say you just had a baby and needed some advice and you could choose between your brother who is single and never had any kids or your mom who's gone through it all. This does this make a little bit more sense on how I was rationalizing this.. I just dont think you should tell me to fuck off tho. :(
  • moeaholicmoeaholic Posts: 535
    Earthgirl wrote:
    tell me how this works: You have a grievance counsellor who is working with people who have lost both thier parents. You are working in a group, there are about 15 people in this group, all have lost both their parents. I ask the counsellor " Have you lost anyone close to you?" She replies " No, but a friend of mine lost her grandmother last year and that was hard on her, I could tell."

    I never went back. I just couldn't get past that and there fore wouldn't care about anything she had to say.

    I feel some things you can only teach through life experiences.

    i think i can top that: when my wife was pregnant with our first child we went to a series of birthing classes. two women were teaching it. we'll call them #1 and #2. #1 didn't say much, but #2 couldn't stop running her mouth. she had all the answers to every question. i thought "man, #2 really knows her shit." she'd tell the women "when you're in labor, you're going to feel this..." or "during a contraction, this is going to happen and it'll feel like this..." so at the end of the first class there was a q&a. i asked how many children the instructors had. #1 said she had 3. #2 said none. sorry, but if you've never experienced childbirth, how do you know what the experience is like (what you're feeling inside your body at the time, that is).
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  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    iluvcats wrote:
    I've had a very rude and stuck up counselor before.

    I'm sorry that happened to you :(

    yah, this one was very arrogant..makes it hard if you can't connect with the person doesn't it.
    thanks for the kind words tho. :)
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Earthgirl wrote:
    Say you just had a baby and needed some advice and you could choose between your brother who is single and never had any kids or your mom who's gone through it all. This does this make a little bit more sense on how I was rationalizing this.. I just dont think you should tell me to fuck off tho. :(

    Personally, I'd rather the opinion of a developmental psychologist than my mother. When it comes to raising children, my mother raised 3 kids and still knows fuck all about raising kids.

    You don't need someone who has experienced a loss to support you in your self-pity and encourage you to dwell on it. What you need is a berievment counsellor.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • iluvcatsiluvcats Posts: 5,153
    Earthgirl wrote:
    yah, this one was very arrogant..makes it hard if you can't connect with the person doesn't it.
    thanks for the kind words tho. :)

    you are welcome.

    I know, I came home and imitated my counselor to my husband. He asked me what her problem was. She was TFO (too fucking old!)
    9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
    8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
    10/10 - Brad in B'more
  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Personally, I'd rather the opinion of a developmental psychologist than my mother. When it comes to raising children, my mother raised 3 kids and still knows fuck all about raising kids.

    You don't need someone who has experienced a loss to support you in your self-pity and encourage you to dwell on it. What you need is a berievment counsellor.


    why are you so bitter? and when you are going through a loss it's not because of self pity, I can't believe you actually said that. Who would want to dwell on a death? Everyone is different and everyone looks for different ways to grieve and move on. I found my way through reading and journalling and time. Time is the key.
    I hope you find peace and love.

    happy holidays
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Earthgirl wrote:
    why are you so bitter? and when you are going through a loss it's not because of self pity, I can't believe you actually said that. Who would want to dwell on a death? Everyone is different and everyone looks for different ways to grieve and move on. I found my way through reading and journalling and time. Time is the key.
    I hope you find peace and love.

    happy holidays

    Nice.

    If you're still looking for support getting through I hope you find what you're looking for there.

    You seem to be doing alright on your own.
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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Earthgirl wrote:
    why are you so bitter? and when you are going through a loss it's not because of self pity, I can't believe you actually said that. Who would want to dwell on a death? Everyone is different and everyone looks for different ways to grieve and move on. I found my way through reading and journalling and time. Time is the key.
    I hope you find peace and love.

    happy holidays

    I'm not bitter, I'm realistic. I don't live in a wild fantasy world like the rest of you. I don't look at myself from the inside out and defend everything someone says about me. If I took shit as personally as the rest of you, I'd have broke down in tears months ago. You people are just too fucking soft to have a real conversation with.

    I lost 3 of my grandparents, 3 close friends and plenty of pets. My parents, as well as my last grandmother are knocking on deaths door. So fucking what? People get old and die, there is shit, sweet, fuck all, anyone can do about it. Accept it, move on. Tell yourself they go to heaven, convince yourself that John Edwards can talk to 'em. Do whatever you have to do, but get over it. For me, they are dead, gone, fucking done, non-existent, and that's perfectly ok with me. Because I don't have this history of care bears and fucking cabbage patch kids, I don't live in a fantasy world where "everything works out" and people are magical beings. Just talking about it makes me want to puke.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm not bitter, I'm realistic. I don't live in a wild fantasy world like the rest of you. I don't look at myself from the inside out and defend everything someone says about me. If I took shit as personally as the rest of you, I'd have broke down in tears months ago. You people are just too fucking soft to have a real conversation with.

    I lost 3 of my grandparents, 3 close friends and plenty of pets. My parents, as well as my last grandmother are knocking on deaths door. So fucking what? People get old and die, there is shit, sweet, fuck all, anyone can do about it. Accept it, move on. Tell yourself they go to heaven, convince yourself that John Edwards can talk to 'em. Do whatever you have to do, but get over it. For me, they are dead, gone, fucking done, non-existent, and that's perfectly ok with me. Because I don't have this history of care bears and fucking cabbage patch kids, I don't live in a fantasy world where "everything works out" and people are magical beings. Just talking about it makes me want to puke.

    There's nothing wrong with emotions. Emotions are not part of some fantasy world, the are part of the real world.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Collin wrote:
    There's nothing wrong with emotions. Emotions are not part of some fantasy world, the are part of the real world.

    No shit sherlock. That's obviously not what I was saying.

    Emotions are corroborated by the experiences we have and our percepts of reality. You are too fucking soft because of your experiences, while I know people die, and I know they are gone when their dead and I know it could happen any second. I'm not going to cry over it, fuck 'em, their dead. Move on.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm not bitter, I'm realistic. I don't live in a wild fantasy world like the rest of you. I don't look at myself from the inside out and defend everything someone says about me. If I took shit as personally as the rest of you, I'd have broke down in tears months ago. You people are just too fucking soft to have a real conversation with.

    I lost 3 of my grandparents, 3 close friends and plenty of pets. My parents, as well as my last grandmother are knocking on deaths door. So fucking what? People get old and die, there is shit, sweet, fuck all, anyone can do about it. Accept it, move on. Tell yourself they go to heaven, convince yourself that John Edwards can talk to 'em. Do whatever you have to do, but get over it. For me, they are dead, gone, fucking done, non-existent, and that's perfectly ok with me. Because I don't have this history of care bears and fucking cabbage patch kids, I don't live in a fantasy world where "everything works out" and people are magical beings. Just talking about it makes me want to puke.

    wow, I didn't mean for my thread to make people this upset. Just wanted to have a little discussion about it on here, thought this was what these forums were for. I don't know how you assume from one or two little paragraphs that I wrote or anyone else for that matter that we are all too soft, or live ina fantasy world. By the way.. I'm too old for cabbage patch kids and care bears, I was into Holly Hobby.\
    I hope you feel better.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Earthgirl wrote:
    wow, I didn't mean for my thread to make people this upset. Just wanted to have a little discussion about it on here, thought this was what these forums were for. I don't know how you assume from one or two little paragraphs that I wrote or anyone else for that matter that we are all too soft, or live ina fantasy world. By the way.. I'm too old for cabbage patch kids and care bears, I was into Holly Hobby.\
    I hope you feel better.

    So, why do you feel that a person who hasn't lost a loved one can't sympathize with you? Or offer you support?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Ahnimus wrote:
    No shit sherlock. That's obviously not what I was saying.

    Emotions are corroborated by the experiences we have and our percepts of reality. You are too fucking soft because of your experiences, while I know people die, and I know they are gone when their dead and I know it could happen any second. I'm not going to cry over it, fuck 'em, their dead. Move on.

    I'm glad I'm "soft" compared to you.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Collin wrote:
    I'm glad I'm "soft" compared to you.

    Why? So you can identify with your cabbage patch friends and gain social status to feed your ego?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    catefrances wrote:
    i think counsellors are suppose to be neutral and objective.


    agreed.
    i also do not think a counselor needs to have any real-life personal experience with any certain issue to do their job effectively, and to truly help people. a counselor needs to be good at their job, know effective techniques and how to best assit their patients/groups. personal experience definitely is not necessary, empathy, excellent listening skills, effective coping strageies and other related information at hand......THAT's what is really needed.
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    Ahnimus wrote:
    So, why do you feel that a person who hasn't lost a loved one can't sympathize with you? Or offer you support?

    This is personally how I feel because of how I look at the world and how I learn and do things. I am a hands on person with learning in all aspects, so in turn if I am this kind of person.. it would make sense that I feel this way.
    Sure, it's great for some, just not me. I find out what beer I like by drinking a whole bunch of shitty beers. That counsellor was just one of those shitty beers.
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Why? So you can identify with your cabbage patch friends and gain social status to feed your ego?

    No.

    And what the fuck are cabbage patch kids?
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    decides2dream wrote:
    agreed.
    i also do not think a counselor needs to have any real-life personal experience with any certain issue to do their job effectively, and to truly help people. a counselor needs to be good at their job, know effective techniques and how to best assit their patients/groups. personal experience definitely is not necessary, empathy, excellent listening skills, effective coping strageies and other related information at hand......THAT's what is really needed.


    I just disagree and sure, of course you don't have to have any real life experiences in everything you take in school in order to teach it.. that's just ridiculous. I'm just saying she sucked, for me personally I want someone who has gone through at least one loss before they start coaching people who have gone through numerous losses.. sure she can suggest techniques.. but when you are depressed and alone and noone is around to help you and you've been crying for days and can't get off the bed or you've been drinking and doing drugs to numb the pain for a bit.. who the hell cares about a technique you learnt in class. It all just takes time when it comes right down to it. Because only you can truly make you happy.
  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    Collin wrote:
    No.

    And what the fuck are cabbage patch kids?

    hahaha thanks for lightening up the room. :)
  • decides2dreamdecides2dream Posts: 14,977
    Earthgirl wrote:
    I just disagree and sure, of course you don't have to have any real life experiences in everything you take in school in order to teach it.. that's just ridiculous. I'm just saying she sucked, for me personally I want someone who has gone through at least one loss before they start coaching people who have gone through numerous losses.. sure she can suggest techniques.. but when you are depressed and alone and noone is around to help you and you've been crying for days and can't get off the bed or you've been drinking and doing drugs to numb the pain for a bit.. who the hell cares about a technique you learnt in class. It all just takes time when it comes right down to it. Because only you can truly make you happy.


    well if she sucked, she sucked. all i am saying is she sucks b/c she is not good at her job...not b/c she personally has not experienced such profound loss. one CAN be VERY good, comforting and helpful....w/o the personal experience. sadly, with or w/o that...she sucked b/c she's not good at her job, or perhaps just not a good match for you. counselors, even good counselors, don't always mesh with their patients....it's important for them to have the education and techniques...but of course, beyond that....probably even more important...is having the right personality and style to be a good counselor. hope you find someone better suited to meet your needs. :)


    and yes, i do whole-heartedly agree....only you can make yourself happy, but absolutely, a counselor can help you in your journey, and also help you stay on the path you desire too. i have ound counseling very beneficial. something about a neutral outside, just there to *listen*.....quite good.

    *hugs earthy*
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    *hugs earthy*[/quote]

    awww thanks :) I felt the warmth from way up here.
  • angelicaangelica Posts: 6,038
    Collin wrote:
    I'm glad I'm "soft" compared to you.
    I think it's beautiful that you are the way you are, Collin. And your emotional intelligence speaks well for you. On Christmas day, actually at Christmas dinner, I mentioned you - I was saying considering you are only a few years older than my son, I would be very proud if my own son was on message boards speaking as intelligently and wisely as you. :) But I'm just a softy. ;)
    "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr

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  • justamjustam Posts: 21,410
    Earthgirl wrote:
    tell me how this works: You have a grievance counsellor who is working with people who have lost both thier parents. You are working in a group, there are about 15 people in this group, all have lost both their parents. I ask the counsellor " Have you lost anyone close to you?" She replies " No, but a friend of mine lost her grandmother last year and that was hard on her, I could tell."

    I never went back. I just couldn't get past that and there fore wouldn't care about anything she had to say.

    I feel some things you can only teach through life experiences.

    I can see why you might react the way you did. That seems to be such a shallow response.
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • EarthgirlEarthgirl Posts: 695
    justam wrote:
    I can see why you might react the way you did. That seems to be such a shallow response.


    exactly ! the response is what got me.
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