I already mentioned other factors but you automatically dismiss them because they dont fit your agenda.
of course you can be objective, you're very good it. but in doing that you close your mind to the possibility of something else. truth be told, you have no idea what went on behind closed doors regarding Iraq. you have no idea for the real reasons why bush launched the war.
knowing that, you should be open to the fact that you may be wrong about the reasons you hold so tightly.
So your saying because the people didn't sit in on the closed door meetings we can't see the logic as to why we are fighting in Iraq. You are right, we were not at the closed door meetings, but as President of the United States of America, it was George Bush's job to present the reasons. Every government official, every military official he has put in front of the camera to present his case for Iraq have been caught in documented lies. Even the Pentagon has officially documented the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. 4,000 people are known dead, countless others mamed, countless others with mental problems, and an untold number that will never be verified of civilians who have died and disappeared for lies.
One question? What good has come out of Iraq? Please, let me give the one and only answer that seems to always be said. Democracy, they can vote now. Guess what, just because people vote doesn't mean they have a democracy. Iraq's government is nothing but a figurehead fully accountable to the U.S. We control their economy and their internal government structure. The Bremer Orders are still in effect even with the elections. Iraq is nothing more than a weaken version of South Korea, an occupied and divided Sovereignty.
So again, What good has come out of Iraq?
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
this rhetoric has no foundation ... this war is based on the principles of US foreign policy - which is making sure foreign nations support the economic goals of US corporations ...
this war has nothing to do with terrorism - with all the information available to us now - this no longer holds any water ... this war has always been about us imperialism and war profiteering ... this is why 4,000 deaths is tragic and why the 1.2 million iraqi deaths is beyond excuseable ...
there can be NO change unless people start looking at these issues for what they really are ...
War profiteering? Economic goals? Do you have any evidence to support this? (And please don't direct me to conspiracy theory websites).
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Answer: so, corporations can profit and us military and economic interests in the region are ensured ... you don't solve terrorism and extremism by invading, occupying a sovereing country and proceed to kill innocent people on a daily basis ...
We aren't "killing innocent people on a daily basis." Terrorists are blowing themselves up and others with them. Try actually talking to someone who's been over there sometime (I know 3 such people).
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
We aren't "killing innocent people on a daily basis." Terrorists are blowing themselves up and others with them. Try actually talking to someone who's been over there sometime (I know 3 such people).
yeah, they're going to tell you they killed innocent people...:rolleyes:
by the way, there are more than 3 people serving in Irak...
So your saying because the people didn't sit in on the closed door meetings we can't see the logic as to why we are fighting in Iraq. You are right, we were not at the closed door meetings, but as President of the United States of America, it was George Bush's job to present the reasons. Every government official, every military official he has put in front of the camera to present his case for Iraq have been caught in documented lies. Even the Pentagon has officially documented the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. 4,000 people are known dead, countless others mamed, countless others with mental problems, and an untold number that will never be verified of civilians who have died and disappeared for lies.
I'm saying there are unknowns. where these lies you speak of, lies or fucked up intelligence? maybe a little of both I think..
but I agree bush completely failed when it came to the reasons for going to war. WMDs is all we heard about and it turned out false. because of that I'm not going to determine as fact that the only reason they pushed forward with this war was to make some profit.
I believe, however, that bush will be looked at as one of the worst presidents in history because of the failed justification.
history has yet to determine this. one possible good outcome is that it will end the divide among sunnis/shiites. they have come a long way since the invasion and have a long way to go. under saddam, this divide would have only been driven deeper.
Please, let me give the one and only answer that seems to always be said. Democracy, they can vote now. Guess what, just because people vote doesn't mean they have a democracy. Iraq's government is nothing but a figurehead fully accountable to the U.S. We control their economy and their internal government structure. The Bremer Orders are still in effect even with the elections. Iraq is nothing more than a weaken version of South Korea, an occupied and divided Sovereignty.
So again, What good has come out of Iraq?
south korea seems to be doing just fine. Iraq would be lucky to turn out like them. you're going to have to have patience. this country and a free democracy is going to take time and develop on its own. I'm actually amazed at the progress that has happened thus far. I had no idea of the deep seeded hatred those groups have for each other.
I know you are trying to sound sympathetic but this tone actually comes off more condescending than anything. U.S. soldiers enlist voluntarily. If they didn't think they were doing their patriotic duty and preserving freedom they wouldn't join in the first place. They wouldn't re-enlist. They wouldn't volunteer for additional TOD's.
Regardless of their opinions on Iraq I wish some of the anti-war crowd could grasp this.
how is it condescending to express that i hope that the dead soldiers believe the cause was worth dying for? they gave the only thing they had to give, and for what?? i was just saying that it is a terrible thing to give your life for a cause that many people do not feel is worth it, but i hope those 4000 felt it was. look at the media apathy when it comes to covering iraq, its never covered anymore and the population is war weary and when i hear of another soldier's death it does not bother me like it did at the beginning of the war.
many people that do mulitple tours are stop loss-ed and they do not volunteer to go back there but are made to go back. also those that do re-enlist may have no other options. they may not have a wife and kids and have nothing holding them to the US, and if they are career soldiers they have to go where they are ordered. iraq is no more stable or no safer than it was when bush declared "mission accomplished", look at what happened in basra today, that place is a powder keg with a lit fuse, and if it goes off the whole country may be destabilized.
i am deeply sorry for the soldiers who lost their lives and for their families and friends, but i can not say that i completely agree that they died "defending freedom". not mine anyway, because my freedom is not threatened and it never has been.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
We aren't "killing innocent people on a daily basis." Terrorists are blowing themselves up and others with them. Try actually talking to someone who's been over there sometime (I know 3 such people).
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_333.shtml
Dec 14, 2005
'...they estimated that at least 98,000 Iraqi civilians had died in the previous 18 months as a direct result of the invasion and occupation of their country. They also found that violence had become the leading cause of death in Iraq during that period (51 percent or 24 percent with or without Anbar). However,
their most significant finding was that the vast majority (79 percent) of violent deaths were caused by "coalition" forces using "helicopter gunships, rockets or other forms of aerial weaponry," and that almost half (48 percent) of these were children, with a median age of eight.'
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/civi-j17.shtml US forces kill Iraqi civilians every day
By James Cogan
17 July 2007 'The figures indicate that civilians are shot at by US forces somewhere in Iraq at least every three hours'.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13974639/ Accused troops: We were under orders to kill
'Soldiers say officers commanded them to ‘kill all military age males’ in Iraq'
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
......And we wonder why the civilian body count is getting so high.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
War profiteering? Economic goals? Do you have any evidence to support this? (And please don't direct me to conspiracy theory websites).
ask yourself who has gained from this war in iraq? - do you still believe there are actually legitimate reasons for this occupation?
you can't say that people of iraq have gained ... the only people who have gained are the defence contractors, oil companies and "engineering" firms - they've made massive profits ...
read confessions of an economic hitman and study the history of US foreign policy ... it's almost always about economic goals ...
We aren't "killing innocent people on a daily basis." Terrorists are blowing themselves up and others with them. Try actually talking to someone who's been over there sometime (I know 3 such people).
how about documentaries like "taxi to the dark side" or "body of war" ... or all the war resisters who are trying to not go back to the states because of moral reasons ...
ask yourself who has gained from this war in iraq? - do you still believe there are actually legitimate reasons for this occupation?
you can't say that people of iraq have gained ... the only people who have gained are the defence contractors, oil companies and "engineering" firms - they've made massive profits ...
read confessions of an economic hitman and study the history of US foreign policy ... it's almost always about economic goals ...
yes, one can say the people of Iraq have gained. some have (shiites) some haven't (mostly sunnis)
More than 40 Shia pilgrims killed in attacks
Monday February 25 2008 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/25/iraq?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
'A suicide bomber killed at least 40 people and injured 60 yesterday in an attack on Shia pilgrims taking a break during their days-long march to a shrine for a major religious gathering south of Baghdad.'
http://ahrci.org/index.php?doc=bbs/gnuboard.php&bo_table=asia_writing&page=6&wr_id=94&PHPSESSID=c9d9ff8a0599a1851bf97555139fff81 'Almost every single day in Iraq tens if not hundreds of Sunnis or Shias are killed in a bloody sectarian war. Often the victims are bound, shot in the head, and left to be found in a roadside ditch or rubbish dump. The vast majority seem to be innocent of anything but being of the “wrong” religion or being in the “wrong” place. Often they are people who were just queuing for cooking fuel or other necessities. Sunnis and Shias have abandoned their villages and neighbourhoods; Sunni insurgents have killed thousands of Shiites in car bombings and assassinations; Shiite militia death squads have tortured and killed hundreds, if not thousands, of Sunnis. When night falls, neighbourhoods become open battlegrounds'
I could post links like these above all day. There's hundreds of them. Suffice it to say, it doesn't look like the Shiia's are having an easy time of it over there.
And as for the Kurds, they're currently being attacked by the Turkish army.
So your comments are complete guff.
I could post links like these above all day. There's hundreds of them. Suffice it to say, it doesn't look like the Sunni's are having an easy time of it over there.
And as for the Kurds, they're currently being attacked by the Turkish army.
So your comments are complete guff.
why do so many resort to personal attacks when debating here? I clearly said that sunnis are NOT gaining because of this war. as for the kurds, the area as a whole is thriving. they are not at risk of having chemical weapons dropped on them from saddam. there is a militia group that is battling with turkey. they have been for decades, its nothing new.
why do so many resort to personal attacks when debating here? I clearly said that sunnis are NOT gaining because of this war. as for the kurds, the area as a whole is thriving. they are not at risk of having chemical weapons dropped on them from saddam. there is a militia group that is battling with turkey. they have been for decades, its nothing new.
I meant Shiia's. See my edit.
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/19463 Kurds bemoan soaring cost of living
Residents say low salaries and runaway inflation means that they can barely make ends meet.
"Last year, we protested so that people's living conditions would improve, but this year, it only got worse," said 29-year-old Hadi Ali, who was arrested in 2006 during a demonstration calling for basic services and a better cost of living'.
great, still no need to insult me. some Iraqis have gained. thats a fact. of course you can post links all day of death. there is a war going on. to completely ignore the fact that some of gained is flat out wrong.
great, still no need to insult me. some Iraqis have gained. thats a fact. of course you can post links all day of death. there is a war going on. to completely ignore the fact that some of gained is flat out wrong.
And you think that the handful of those who have 'gained' outweighs the millions who have been killed or have been driven out of the country?
I'm saying there are unknowns. where these lies you speak of, lies or fucked up intelligence? maybe a little of both I think..
but I agree bush completely failed when it came to the reasons for going to war. WMDs is all we heard about and it turned out false. because of that I'm not going to determine as fact that the only reason they pushed forward with this war was to make some profit.
I believe, however, that bush will be looked at as one of the worst presidents in history because of the failed justification.
-Bush and his administration fabricated, distorted, twisted and manipulated lies, into justifications to "create" intel to enter into a conflict with Iraq.
- The only thing that is recognizable on a global scale is the "selective" war profiteering that has come out of this war. Whether you acknowledge such or not.
history has yet to determine this. one possible good outcome is that it will end the divide among sunnis/shiites. they have come a long way since the invasion and have a long way to go. under saddam, this divide would have only been driven deeper.
-How many people have to die in the name of history? History only shows that at some point, when the killing becomes nothing more than an afterthought, it is stopped until another generation takes over. So goes the Middle East.
-What was the refugee count under Saddam? What was the death toll under Saddam? What are those numbers now?
south korea seems to be doing just fine. Iraq would be lucky to turn out like them. you're going to have to have patience. this country and a free democracy is going to take time and develop on its own. I'm actually amazed at the progress that has happened thus far. I had no idea of the deep seeded hatred those groups have for each other.
-South Korea for all its accomplishments is still a militarily occupied country accountable to the U.S. No, formal declaration of war was ever issued by the Congress of the United States of America against Korea. Had we performed the reconstruction work in Iraq for which the taxpayers were milked billions of dollars for, maybe, we wouldn't now be spending more taxpayer dollars for our so-called enemies not to harm our troops and the tribes would actually be working together to rebuild their country.
-This is joke right!!! Why should the American public be patient? What, so that one day when the oil starts flowing under the shadow of the U.S. flag we can say it was all worth it? I'm not that vain to silently accept the death of anyone for greed. I'm, also, not that naive not to realize that having gas prices hit $4 and $5 dollars a gallon will allow the politicians to make a case with the blessing of the people to stay in Iraq.
-You speak of democracy developing on its own, then why the fuck are we still there, we've planted the seed, formalized a Constitution, established a government pecking order, and had the election, we can monitor the progress from home? The Eastern Bloc countries have done it - or wasn't that the Plan for Iraq? Of course it wasn't the Plan, it was never the Plan because we never had any intention of leaving the Iraq. Iraq will and shall remain a cheap version of South Korea.
-You speak of deep seeded hatred of those groups, take at look at the current climate in our own backyard. Hate is easy to resurrect and quick to spread. The Middle East, the tribes of Abram fighting each other over promises made, yes, it will take more generations to get pass this, yet shit just keeps piling on. Is it our place to continue to stay and die over promised land and the fire below.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Comments
So your saying because the people didn't sit in on the closed door meetings we can't see the logic as to why we are fighting in Iraq. You are right, we were not at the closed door meetings, but as President of the United States of America, it was George Bush's job to present the reasons. Every government official, every military official he has put in front of the camera to present his case for Iraq have been caught in documented lies. Even the Pentagon has officially documented the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. 4,000 people are known dead, countless others mamed, countless others with mental problems, and an untold number that will never be verified of civilians who have died and disappeared for lies.
One question? What good has come out of Iraq? Please, let me give the one and only answer that seems to always be said. Democracy, they can vote now. Guess what, just because people vote doesn't mean they have a democracy. Iraq's government is nothing but a figurehead fully accountable to the U.S. We control their economy and their internal government structure. The Bremer Orders are still in effect even with the elections. Iraq is nothing more than a weaken version of South Korea, an occupied and divided Sovereignty.
So again, What good has come out of Iraq?
War profiteering? Economic goals? Do you have any evidence to support this? (And please don't direct me to conspiracy theory websites).
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
We aren't "killing innocent people on a daily basis." Terrorists are blowing themselves up and others with them. Try actually talking to someone who's been over there sometime (I know 3 such people).
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
yeah, they're going to tell you they killed innocent people...:rolleyes:
by the way, there are more than 3 people serving in Irak...
I'm saying there are unknowns. where these lies you speak of, lies or fucked up intelligence? maybe a little of both I think..
but I agree bush completely failed when it came to the reasons for going to war. WMDs is all we heard about and it turned out false. because of that I'm not going to determine as fact that the only reason they pushed forward with this war was to make some profit.
I believe, however, that bush will be looked at as one of the worst presidents in history because of the failed justification.
history has yet to determine this. one possible good outcome is that it will end the divide among sunnis/shiites. they have come a long way since the invasion and have a long way to go. under saddam, this divide would have only been driven deeper.
south korea seems to be doing just fine. Iraq would be lucky to turn out like them. you're going to have to have patience. this country and a free democracy is going to take time and develop on its own. I'm actually amazed at the progress that has happened thus far. I had no idea of the deep seeded hatred those groups have for each other.
Somethings gotta give.
The Rich are going to have to decide between their tax breaks and their war.
we can't afford it, period.
rich? you mean the right? heres to hoping the war ends first.
how is it condescending to express that i hope that the dead soldiers believe the cause was worth dying for? they gave the only thing they had to give, and for what?? i was just saying that it is a terrible thing to give your life for a cause that many people do not feel is worth it, but i hope those 4000 felt it was. look at the media apathy when it comes to covering iraq, its never covered anymore and the population is war weary and when i hear of another soldier's death it does not bother me like it did at the beginning of the war.
many people that do mulitple tours are stop loss-ed and they do not volunteer to go back there but are made to go back. also those that do re-enlist may have no other options. they may not have a wife and kids and have nothing holding them to the US, and if they are career soldiers they have to go where they are ordered. iraq is no more stable or no safer than it was when bush declared "mission accomplished", look at what happened in basra today, that place is a powder keg with a lit fuse, and if it goes off the whole country may be destabilized.
i am deeply sorry for the soldiers who lost their lives and for their families and friends, but i can not say that i completely agree that they died "defending freedom". not mine anyway, because my freedom is not threatened and it never has been.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_333.shtml
Dec 14, 2005
'...they estimated that at least 98,000 Iraqi civilians had died in the previous 18 months as a direct result of the invasion and occupation of their country. They also found that violence had become the leading cause of death in Iraq during that period (51 percent or 24 percent with or without Anbar). However,
their most significant finding was that the vast majority (79 percent) of violent deaths were caused by "coalition" forces using "helicopter gunships, rockets or other forms of aerial weaponry," and that almost half (48 percent) of these were children, with a median age of eight.'
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... article.do
US troops 'shoot civilians
'American soldiers in Iraq today make the astonishing admission that they regularly kill civilians.'
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/civi-j17.shtml
US forces kill Iraqi civilians every day
By James Cogan
17 July 2007
'The figures indicate that civilians are shot at by US forces somewhere in Iraq at least every three hours'.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/13/iraq/main3933530.shtml
March 26, 2008 12:28pm
U.S. Troops Kill Iraqi Girl On Roadside
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/world/middleeast/13iraq.html
March 13, 2008
U.S. Troops Kill Iraqi Girl; 3 Soldiers Die in Attack
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/apr/29/iraq.sarahleft
US troops 'kill 13 Iraqi protesters'
Tuesday April 29 2003
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/28/2174901.htm?section=world
US troops kill man with broken arm
Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:01am AEDT
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/05/AR2008020503032.html
U.S. Troops Kill at Least 3 Iraqi Civilians in Raid
Wednesday, February 6, 2008; Page A06
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/77064/
U.S. Soldiers Kill Unarmed Iraqis and Afghanis
February 15, 2008.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0618-03.htm
U.S. Troops Kill Two Iraqi Protesters
June 18, 2003
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cont/node/4443
U.S. soldiers kill Iraqi civilians
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/27/AR2007112702353.html
U.S. Troops Kill at Least 5 Iraqis in Checkpoint Shootings
Wednesday, November 28, 2007
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,6119,2-10-1460_1676037,00.html
US troops kill woman, kids
14/03/2005 13:09
http://www.williambowles.info/iraq/2006/0606/another_coverup.html
U.S. Troops Kill Two Iraqi Women, One of Them Pregnant, in Samarra
June 14, 2006
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13974639/
Accused troops: We were under orders to kill
'Soldiers say officers commanded them to ‘kill all military age males’ in Iraq'
http://www.counterpunch.org/guerrin04162003.html
Embedded Photographer:
"I Saw Marines Kill Civilians"
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20030401/ai_n14549568
Wary troops kill civilians
Apr 1, 2003
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/12/iraq.julianborger1
Civilians killed by US troops
Tuesday August 12 2003
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
ask yourself who has gained from this war in iraq? - do you still believe there are actually legitimate reasons for this occupation?
you can't say that people of iraq have gained ... the only people who have gained are the defence contractors, oil companies and "engineering" firms - they've made massive profits ...
read confessions of an economic hitman and study the history of US foreign policy ... it's almost always about economic goals ...
how about documentaries like "taxi to the dark side" or "body of war" ... or all the war resisters who are trying to not go back to the states because of moral reasons ...
yes, one can say the people of Iraq have gained. some have (shiites) some haven't (mostly sunnis)
No Iraqi's have gained from the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Period.
you really believe the kurds in the north haven't gained? or the shiites who were tortured and jailed for decades? really? I suggest you look into.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/44128.pdf
More than 40 Shia pilgrims killed in attacks
Monday February 25 2008
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/25/iraq?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
'A suicide bomber killed at least 40 people and injured 60 yesterday in an attack on Shia pilgrims taking a break during their days-long march to a shrine for a major religious gathering south of Baghdad.'
At least 71 Shia killed as bombers lure job seekers into minibus trap
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/13/iraq.iraqtimeline
http://ahrci.org/index.php?doc=bbs/gnuboard.php&bo_table=asia_writing&page=6&wr_id=94&PHPSESSID=c9d9ff8a0599a1851bf97555139fff81
'Almost every single day in Iraq tens if not hundreds of Sunnis or Shias are killed in a bloody sectarian war. Often the victims are bound, shot in the head, and left to be found in a roadside ditch or rubbish dump. The vast majority seem to be innocent of anything but being of the “wrong” religion or being in the “wrong” place. Often they are people who were just queuing for cooking fuel or other necessities. Sunnis and Shias have abandoned their villages and neighbourhoods; Sunni insurgents have killed thousands of Shiites in car bombings and assassinations; Shiite militia death squads have tortured and killed hundreds, if not thousands, of Sunnis. When night falls, neighbourhoods become open battlegrounds'
I could post links like these above all day. There's hundreds of them. Suffice it to say, it doesn't look like the Shiia's are having an easy time of it over there.
And as for the Kurds, they're currently being attacked by the Turkish army.
So your comments are complete guff.
why do so many resort to personal attacks when debating here? I clearly said that sunnis are NOT gaining because of this war. as for the kurds, the area as a whole is thriving. they are not at risk of having chemical weapons dropped on them from saddam. there is a militia group that is battling with turkey. they have been for decades, its nothing new.
I meant Shiia's. See my edit.
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/19463
Kurds bemoan soaring cost of living
Residents say low salaries and runaway inflation means that they can barely make ends meet.
"Last year, we protested so that people's living conditions would improve, but this year, it only got worse," said 29-year-old Hadi Ali, who was arrested in 2006 during a demonstration calling for basic services and a better cost of living'.
Doesn't sound like they're 'thriving' to me.
great, still no need to insult me. some Iraqis have gained. thats a fact. of course you can post links all day of death. there is a war going on. to completely ignore the fact that some of gained is flat out wrong.
And you think that the handful of those who have 'gained' outweighs the millions who have been killed or have been driven out of the country?
no I don't. I'm simply stating that some of gained. relax fella.
-Bush and his administration fabricated, distorted, twisted and manipulated lies, into justifications to "create" intel to enter into a conflict with Iraq.
- The only thing that is recognizable on a global scale is the "selective" war profiteering that has come out of this war. Whether you acknowledge such or not.
-How many people have to die in the name of history? History only shows that at some point, when the killing becomes nothing more than an afterthought, it is stopped until another generation takes over. So goes the Middle East.
-What was the refugee count under Saddam? What was the death toll under Saddam? What are those numbers now?
-South Korea for all its accomplishments is still a militarily occupied country accountable to the U.S. No, formal declaration of war was ever issued by the Congress of the United States of America against Korea. Had we performed the reconstruction work in Iraq for which the taxpayers were milked billions of dollars for, maybe, we wouldn't now be spending more taxpayer dollars for our so-called enemies not to harm our troops and the tribes would actually be working together to rebuild their country.
-This is joke right!!! Why should the American public be patient? What, so that one day when the oil starts flowing under the shadow of the U.S. flag we can say it was all worth it? I'm not that vain to silently accept the death of anyone for greed. I'm, also, not that naive not to realize that having gas prices hit $4 and $5 dollars a gallon will allow the politicians to make a case with the blessing of the people to stay in Iraq.
-You speak of democracy developing on its own, then why the fuck are we still there, we've planted the seed, formalized a Constitution, established a government pecking order, and had the election, we can monitor the progress from home? The Eastern Bloc countries have done it - or wasn't that the Plan for Iraq? Of course it wasn't the Plan, it was never the Plan because we never had any intention of leaving the Iraq. Iraq will and shall remain a cheap version of South Korea.
-You speak of deep seeded hatred of those groups, take at look at the current climate in our own backyard. Hate is easy to resurrect and quick to spread. The Middle East, the tribes of Abram fighting each other over promises made, yes, it will take more generations to get pass this, yet shit just keeps piling on. Is it our place to continue to stay and die over promised land and the fire below.