...
Really... why does anyone vote for anyone... really?
Most will vote along party lines and a few of us... ME... will jump out of our registered party affiliation to try and elect the person we believe is least likely to fuck up our country... again.
If you believe political campaign speeches and are over the age of 13... you are either extremely naive or just an idiot. Campaign speeches are synonymous with 'lies'. This year is no exception... why should it be?
As for me? It's the same as it always has been... do I want crap or shit? This year it's a little easier than most... do I want crap or the same old shit? I'm going with crap... because I already know what the same old shit is because I've had it for almost 8 years, now.
I'll take my chances that this crap won't be as bad as the steaming pile of wormiated shit I've had for 8 years now... i don't know what I will get... but, at least i know what I won't be getting.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
of course he hasn't. the post you quoted was a response to someone who said the dems should somehow have repealed the patriot act or withdrawn troops or impeached bush or any other number of things they don't have anywhere near enough of a majority stronghold to accomplish with a divided senate and an opposition president. spending and small government was not what we were discussing.
sorry, I probably just hit the wrong button.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
...
Really... why does anyone vote for anyone... really?
Most will vote along party lines and a few of us... ME... will jump out of our registered party affiliation to try and elect the person we believe is least likely to fuck up our country... again.
If you believe political campaign speeches and are over the age of 13... you are either extremely naive or just an idiot. Campaign speeches are synonymous with 'lies'. This year is no exception... why should it be?
As for me? It's the same as it always has been... do I want crap or shit? This year it's a little easier than most... do I want crap or the same old shit? I'm going with crap... because I already know what the same old shit is because I've had it for almost 8 years, now.
I'll take my chances that this crap won't be as bad as the steaming pile of wormiated shit I've had for 8 years now... i don't know what I will get... but, at least i know what I won't be getting.
Ha. well, hopefully the new chef will have a new sauce for this shit.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
...
So... what does this all mean? That Obama is the furthest away from... whomever is the most Conservative Senator in 2007 is? Who is that?
I couldn't find that data... can you point it out to me?
Thanx.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I wasn't saying Obama isn't left wing or liberal. The person I was replying to referred to him as Pseudo-Marxist. I was saying that I think that is BS. That while, yes he is left wing...I wouldn't say he's THAT far left.
Your link is saying he is one of the most liberal...thats of the men and women in the Senate...doesn't make him a marxist cause he's more left wing than many of them...esp considering how many of them are republicans (ergo are right wing).
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
Answering a question with a question...nice!! I asked first!
...
I'll let you in on a little secret...
Answering a question with a question is the same thing as saying, "I don't have a clue" or "I'm better at argueing points that you present... than coming up with my own points".
...
I run across this trap alot and have figured it out.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
So... what does this all mean? That Obama is the furthest away from... whomever is the most Conservative Senator in 2007 is? Who is that?
I couldn't find that data... can you point it out to me?
Thanx.
The liberal percentile score means that the member voted more liberal than that percentage of his or her colleagues in that issue area in 2007. The conservative figure means that the member voted more conservative than that percentage of his or her colleagues.
For example, a House member in the 30th percentile of liberals and the 60th percentile of conservatives on economic issues voted more liberal than 30 percent of the House and more conservative than 60 percent of the House on those issues, and was tied with the remaining 10 percent. The scores do not mean that the member voted liberal 30 percent of the time and voted conservative 60 percent of the time.
I wasn't saying Obama isn't left wing or liberal. The person I was replying to referred to him as Pseudo-Marxist. I was saying that I think that is BS. That while, yes he is left wing...I wouldn't say he's THAT far left.
Your link is saying he is one of the most liberal...thats of the men and women in the Senate...doesn't make him a marxist cause he's more left wing than many of them...esp considering how many of them are republicans (ergo are right wing).
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that he's a Marxist. I was just responding to your post where you said he's not as far left as the poster thought. I was just pointing out that his voting record has shown him in 2007 to be the most liberal in the Senate, so he's as far left as could be found in the Senate, at least in 2007 based on the votes he actually participated in.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that he's a Marxist. I was just responding to your post where you said he's not as far left as the poster thought. I was just pointing out that his voting record has shown him in 2007 to be the most liberal in the Senate, so he's as far left as could be found in the Senate, at least in 2007 based on the votes he actually participated in.
No worries Jeff...I knew you weren't. The person I originally replied to earlier in the thread had said it and it was him that my comments were directed at...sorry for the confusion
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
...
I'll let you in on a little secret...
Answering a question with a question is the same thing as saying, "I don't have a clue" or "I'm better at argueing points that you present... than coming up with my own points".
...
I run across this trap alot and have figured it out.
LMAO Ya I'm slowly coming to that realization myself...which is sad because it says to me that most of the people voting really don't know all of the issues. :(
On a happier note...Jimed14 put up the best post on this board today. He put up EXACTLY what I've been asking for. Check this out:
This was posted in a different forum I frequent, posted originally by the Assoc Press ... please feel free to correct anything that is wrong.
Obama-McCain: Where They Stand
From the Associated Press (AP)
ABORTION
McCain: Opposes abortion rights. Has voted for abortion restrictions permissible under Roe v. Wade, and now says he would seek to overturn that guarantee of abortion rights. Would not seek constitutional amendment to ban abortion.
Obama: Favors abortion rights.
AFGHANISTAN
McCain: Favors unspecified boost in U.S. forces.
Obama: Would add about 7,000 troops to the U.S. force of 36,000, bringing the reinforcements from Iraq. Has threatened unilateral attack on high-value terrorist targets in Pakistan as they become exposed, "if Pakistan cannot or will not act" against them.
CAMPAIGN FINANCE
McCain: The co-author of McCain-Feingold campaign finance law, he plans to run his general campaign with public money and within its spending limits. He has urged Obama to do the same. He applied for federal matching funds for primaries but later turned them down so he could spend more than the limits. Federal Election Commission belatedly approved his decision to bypass the primary funds, but rejected McCain's claim that he needed no such approval. McCain accepts campaign contributions from lobbyists.
Obama: The presidential campaign's fundraising champion has brought in $390 million. He plans to raise private money for his general election, despite his proposal last year to accept public financing and its spending limits if the Republican nominee does, too. Obama refuses to accept money from federal lobbyists and has instructed the Democratic National Committee to do the same for its joint victory fund, an account that would benefit the nominee. Obama does accept money from state lobbyists and from family members of federal lobbyists.
CUBA
McCain: Ease restrictions on Cuba once U.S. is "confident that the transition to a free and open democracy is being made."
Obama: Ease restrictions on family-related travel and on money Cuban-Americans want to send to their families in Cuba. Open to meeting new Cuban leader Raul Castro without preconditions. Ease trade embargo if Havana "begins opening Cuba to meaningful democratic change."
DEATH PENALTY
McCain: Has supported expansion of the federal death penalty and limits on appeals.
Obama: Supports death penalty for crimes for which the "community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage." As Illinois lawmaker, wrote bill mandating videotaping of interrogations and confessions in capital cases and sought other changes in system that had produced wrongful convictions.
EDUCATION
McCain: Favors parental choice of schools, including vouchers for private schools when approved by local officials, and right of parents to choose home schooling. More money for community college education.
Obama: An $18 billion plan that would encourage, but not mandate, universal pre-kindergarten. Teacher pay raises tied to, although not based solely on, test scores. An overhaul of President Bush's No Child Left Behind law to better measure student progress, make room for non-core subjects like music and art and be less punitive toward failing schools. A tax credit to pay up to $4,000 of college costs for students who perform 100 hours of community service a year. Obama would pay for his plan by ending corporate tax deducations for CEO pay and delaying NASA's moon and Mars missions.
ENERGY
McCain: Favors increased offshore drilling and federal money to help build 45 nuclear power reactors by 2030. Opposes drilling in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Proposed suspending the 18-cent a gallon federal gasoline tax but idea got no traction. Global warming plan would increase energy costs.
Obama: Now would consider limited increase in offshore drilling. Opposes drilling in Arctic reserve. Proposes windfall-profits tax on largest oil companies to pay for energy rebate of up to $1,000. Opposed suspension of the gas tax. Open to tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for short-term relief from high energy costs. Global warming plan would increase energy costs.
GAY MARRIAGE
McCain: Opposes constitutional amendment to ban it. Says same-sex couples should be allowed to enter into legal agreements for insurance and similar benefits, and states should decide about marriage. Supports the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition of same-sex marriages and gives states the right to refuse to recognize such marriages.
Obama: Opposes constitutional amendment to ban it. Supports civil unions, says states should decide about marriage. Switched positions in 2004 and now supports repeal of Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition of same-sex marriages and gives states the right to refuse to recognize such marriages.
GLOBAL WARMING
McCain: Broke with President Bush on global warming. Led Senate effort to cap greenhouse gas emissions; favors tougher fuel efficiency standards. Favors plan that would see greenhouse gas emissions cut by 60 percent by 2050.
Obama: Ten-year, $150 billion program to produce "climate friendly" energy supplies that he'd pay for with a carbon auction requiring businesses to bid competitively for the right to pollute and aimed at cutting greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050. Joined McCain in sponsoring earlier legislation that would set mandatory caps on greenhouse gas emissions. Supports tougher fuel-efficiency standards.
GUN CONTROL
McCain: Voted against ban on assault-type weapons but in favor of requiring background checks at gun shows. Voted to shield gun-makers and dealers from civil suits. "I believe the Second Amendment ought to be preserved _ which means no gun control."
Obama: Voted to leave gun-makers and dealers open to suit. Also, as Illinois state lawmaker, supported ban on all forms of semiautomatic weapons and tighter state restrictions generally on firearms.
HEALTH CARE
McCain: $2,500 refundable tax credit for individuals, $5,000 for families, to make health insurance more affordable. No mandate for universal coverage. In gaining the tax credit, workers could not deduct the portion of their workplace health insurance paid by their employers.
Obama: Mandatory coverage for children, no mandate for adults. Aim for universal coverage by requiring employers to share costs of insuring workers and by offering coverage similar to that in plan for federal employees. Says package would cost up to $65 billion a year after unspecified savings from making system more efficient. Raise taxes on wealthier families to pay the cost.
HOUSING
McCain: Open to helping homeowners facing foreclosure if they are "legitimate borrowers" and not speculators.
Obama: Tax credit covering 10 percent of annual mortgage-interest payments for "struggling homeowners," scoring system for consumers to compare mortgages, a fund for mortgage-fraud victims, new penalties for mortgage fraud, aid to state and local governments stung by housing crisis, in $20 billion plan geared to "responsible homeowners."
IMMIGRATION
McCain: Sponsored 2006 bill that would have allowed illegal immigrants to stay in the U.S., work and apply to become legal residents after learning English, paying fines and back taxes and clearing a background check. Now says he would secure the border first. Supports border fence.
Obama: Voted for 2006 bill offering legal status to illegal immigrants subject to conditions, including English proficiency and payment of back taxes and fines. Voted for border fence.
IRAN
McCain: Favors tougher sanctions, opposes direct high-level talks with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Obama: Initially said he would meet Ahmadinejad without preconditions, now says he's not sure "Ahmadinejad is the right person to meet with right now." But says direct diplomacy with Iranian leaders would give U.S. more credibility to press for tougher international sanctions. Says he would intensify diplomatic pressure on Tehran before Israel feels the need to take unilateral military action against Iranian nuclear facilities.
IRAQ
McCain: Opposes scheduling a troop withdrawal, saying latest strategy is succeeding. Supported decision to go to war, but was early critic of the manner in which administration prosecuted it. Was key backer of the troop increase. Willing to have permanent U.S. peacekeeping forces in Iraq.
Obama: Spoke against war at start, opposed troop increase. Voted against one major military spending bill in May 2007; otherwise voted in favor of money to support the war. Says his plan would complete withdrawal of combat troops in 16 months. Initially had said a timetable for completing withdrawal would be irresponsible without knowing what facts he'd face in office.
SOCIAL SECURITY
McCain: "Nothing's off the table" when it comes to saving Social Security.
Obama: Would raise payroll tax on wealthiest by applying it to portion of income over $250,000. Now, payroll tax is applied to income up to $102,000. Rules out raising the retirement age for benefits.
STEM CELL RESEARCH
McCain: Supports relaxing federal restrictions on financing of embryonic stem cell research.
Obama: Supports relaxing federal restrictions on financing of embryonic stem cell research.
TAXES
McCain: Pledged not to raise taxes, then equivocated, saying nothing can be ruled out in negotiating compromises to keep Social Security solvent. Twice opposed Bush's tax cuts, at first because he said they were tilted to the wealthiest and again because of the unknown costs of Iraq war. Now says those tax cuts, expiring in 2010, should be permanent. Proposes cutting corporate tax rate to 25 percent. Promises balance budget in first term, says that is unlikely in his first year.
Obama: Raise income taxes on wealthiest and their capital gains and dividends taxes. Raise corporate taxes. $80 billion in tax breaks mainly for poor workers and elderly, including tripling Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credit for larger families. Eliminate tax-filing requirement for older workers making under $50,000. A mortgage-interest credit could be used by lower-income homeowners who do not take the mortgage-interest deduction because they do not itemize their taxes.
TRADE
McCain: Free trade advocate.
Obama: Seek to reopen North American Free Trade Agreement to strengthen enforcement of labor and environmental standards. In 2004 Senate campaign, called for "enforcing existing trade agreements," not amending them.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
...
The only person on the planet who is grateful that George W. Bush is our president is Jimmy Carter.
haha!
But Carter has made up for not being such a great prez. Bush? even if he tried, even if he spent the rest of his life trying, he would still not be able to make up for even a small % of what made him such a bad president.
----
BTW, what's the deal with the Carter presidency. Was it the Iran hostage crisis? He did try many diplomatic initiatives, they didnt work, he did not just want to level Iran and didn't. or maybe the Voyager 1 message? lmao!
But Carter has made up for not being such a great prez. Bush? even if he tried, even if he spent the rest of his life trying, he would still not be able to make up for even a small % of what made him such a bad president.
----
BTW, what's the deal with the Carter presidency. Was it the Iran hostage crisis? He did try many diplomatic initiatives, they didnt work, he did not just want to level Iran and didn't. or maybe the Voyager 1 message? lmao!
...
And guess what? Carter... was heralded as a 'Washington Outsider'. Sound familiar? People today who are hailing 'Washington Outsiders' are endorsing... Jimmy Carter!!!
...
And Carter was considered to be the 'Worst President, Ever'... til Bush... another 'Washington Outsider'.
Why? He followed the Nixon Watergate presidency... and an administration that had both a President and Vice President that did not recieve one vote (Nixon/agnew... Agnew resigns... Nixon appoints Ford... Nixon resigns... Ford becomes President... appoints Rockerfeller... neither Ford nor Rockerfeller got one vote from the American people). The double digit Inflation (a.k.a. Stagflation)... double digit unemployment... oil embargos... the Iran Hostage Situation... the disasterous Delta operation to free the hostages. America was considered weak.
...
Carter turned out to be one of the Best former Presidents, ever.
And like you... I don't think Bush will ever come close to achieving that.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
yeah, having a one-person majority and a deadlock in the senate with a veto-happy republican president... it's the dems' fault! keep telling yourself that.
The democrats could end the war by not funding it, right?
The democrats could end the war by not funding it, right?
i'm not so sure about that. but even so, a spending bill that does not include funding for the war would be vetoed by bush. and even a number of democrats are not comfortable with leaving american soldiers high and dry. it's not their fault their commander-in-chief is a fucking idiot. i think yanking funding would only hurt the soldiers, and not do anything to stop the war.
not a major conflict, not by a longshot. even michael moore condemned this one, jackass..
Hmm...my comment was in response to a statement about Peace. So a minor conflict still qualifies as peace?
And do you really think calling people names who disagree with you wins people to "your side"? And do you want the type of people who would respond to that on your side?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
The democrats could end the war by not funding it, right?
Or they could not have given the President authorization to wage war in the first place.
Here's a crazy idea--when you give the Commander in Chief the go ahead for war plan on actually winning the war before you do so! Wow, what a concept.
The War in Iraq is basically over. Major withdrawals will start early next year. Notice how neither candidate is talking about Iraq anymore? It's off the table.
So this life is sacrifice...
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
Or they could not have given the President authorization to wage war in the first place.
Here's a crazy idea--when you give the Commander in Chief the go ahead for war plan on actually winning the war before you do so! Wow, what a concept.
The War in Iraq is basically over. Major withdrawals will start early next year. Notice how neither candidate is talking about Iraq anymore? It's off the table.
the republicans held the majority in congress when the war was approved.
Or they could not have given the President authorization to wage war in the first place.
The War in Iraq is basically over. Major withdrawals will start early next year. Notice how neither candidate is talking about Iraq anymore? It's off the table.
Yeah and the only reason they gave authorization is because they though they could use the excuse "We trusted the president and he lied to us!"
lmao! yeah Iran is old news now, Iran and Pakistan are the hot topics for this election.
The democrats could end the war by not funding it, right?
...
Great... our guys are over there... no more logistical support... no more bullets... no more spare parts replacements for HMMWVs... no more food... no more medical supplies.
Yeah... that'll work.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Great... our guys are over there... no more logistical support... no more bullets... no more spare parts replacements for HMMWVs... no more food... no more medical supplies.
Yeah... that'll work.
Why do you assume it would be like that? They would have to appropriate enough funds specifically for the purpose of leaving instead of continuing. I'm pretty sure that's what Kucinich wanted. There's no way in hell you're going to end up with guys over there with no logistical support.
Why do you assume it would be like that? They would have to appropriate enough funds specifically for the purpose of leaving instead of continuing. I'm pretty sure that's what Kucinich wanted. There's no way in hell you're going to end up with guys over there with no logistical support.
...
It was a lot easier to go in.. than to get out.
Remember, th U.S. is providing all air cover and close air support... all combat surgical hospitals and rapid response med-evac... all central command and control... all military logistical support.
If we remove our combat troops... we leave our support staff in the hands of the iraqi forces. Is that a good deal?
If we remove our support staff... what happens to our combat troops.
That is what an exit strategy is all about. And it's not easy if there are fuckers still running around and blowing up shit. And it would be easier to fund a sufficient amount if there is a goddamn TIMETABLE to draw down the number of troops and leave enough for a rear guard to see that it goes through.
Remember... we have tanks and armoured vehicles we have to evacuate, too. As well as trucks, HMMWVs, trailers, mobile command centers, communication vehicles, medical equipment and a ton of stuff. Either we leave it all there... or we take it with us.
Until we figure this shit out... we are left with no alternative but to fund the troops that are there. Or write them off as a loss... all as a cost of doing business.
...
Finally... let me add this because I haven't said this for a while... Fuck that asshole Bush for being a mother fucking asshole.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
MCain is 72. The average male life expectancy in the US is 78.
toss in POW stresses, and the stresses of running a country, and 78 might be pushing it.
can anyone hello President Palin?
Hockey mom bimbo nut to the rescue....
oh yeah!
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Barack Obama is truly a phenomenon of our time — a presidential candidate who cannot cite a single serious accomplishment in his entire career, besides advancing his own career with rhetoric. -Thomas Sowell
I'm most likely voting McCain because of his experience, his willingness to spend political capital for his beliefs, and his lifelong record of service to his country.
National security and stem cell research are probably my two litmus tests, though I try not to be a single issue voter.
MCain is 72. The average male life expectancy in the US is 78.
toss in POW stresses, and the stresses of running a country, and 78 might be pushing it.
can anyone hello President Palin?
Hockey mom bimbo nut to the rescue....
oh yeah!
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
(the following is not directed at you Roland)
Its too bad that the republicans (most of u anyways) are more intent on making your vote a "vote against Obama" as opposed to a vote FOR McCain and his bitch. I've seen some of you acknowledge you have shortcomings with McCain and don't entirely trust him but you're willing to take you chances with his temper and the possibility of Palin becoming president. Makes me wonder what the hell you are smoking!!
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
Barack Obama is truly a phenomenon of our time — a presidential candidate who cannot cite a single serious accomplishment in his entire career, besides advancing his own career with rhetoric. -Thomas Sowell
I'm most likely voting McCain because of his experience, his willingness to spend political capital for his beliefs, and his lifelong record of service to his country.
National security and stem cell research are probably my two litmus tests, though I try not to be a single issue voter.
Hmmm this is funny considering George W had even LESS experience when he took office but the Republican voters didn't seem to have a problem with that when it was THEIR OWN candidate!!!!! Double standard anyone???
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
I'm most likely voting McCain because of his experience, his willingness to spend political capital for his beliefs, and his lifelong record of service to his country.
...
You know... you could substitute the name 'Kerry' for 'McCain'... and it's a perfect fit... right?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Hmm, we just can't seem to get beyond past elections, huh? Thought this thread was about THIS election? These candidates? But take your shots anyways yous cans huh?
I think every election cycle is different, the challenges and opportunities different, the candidates different. The issues jockeying in importance.
But sure, I'd vote Biden over Obama or Kerry over Edwards. I think it was a great call to make Biden the Veep, though I can think of a few better ones...
Barack Obama is truly a phenomenon of our time — a presidential candidate who cannot cite a single serious accomplishment in his entire career, besides advancing his own career with rhetoric. -Thomas Sowell
There are many accomplishments in Obama's career that I'd be happy to either point you towards or explain. Whichever one you'd like is your call. Most of his most significant achievements have been with ethics reform, although he is on the right side of national homeland protection; he realized that the inadequate protection of our ports are our weak point, while McCain did not; I found this out at ontheissues.org if you're curous).
Basically, there's no doubt that Obama's list of accomplishments in the U.S. Senate is short when compared to McCain's record. However, I feel that McCain's record, when checked, is just plain wrong on the majority of the issues. I appreciate his service and am awed by his devotion to his fellow prisoners during his time as a POW in Vietnam, but that sole experience is not adequate reason to elect someone as leader of our country, particularly when he has proven to be wrong on many of the most important issues guiding our days. Although the talk of him being a "clone" of George W. Bush is a bit inflated, the fact remains that the majority of his policy positions seem somewhat or remarkably similar to this current administration.
Comments
Really... why does anyone vote for anyone... really?
Most will vote along party lines and a few of us... ME... will jump out of our registered party affiliation to try and elect the person we believe is least likely to fuck up our country... again.
If you believe political campaign speeches and are over the age of 13... you are either extremely naive or just an idiot. Campaign speeches are synonymous with 'lies'. This year is no exception... why should it be?
As for me? It's the same as it always has been... do I want crap or shit? This year it's a little easier than most... do I want crap or the same old shit? I'm going with crap... because I already know what the same old shit is because I've had it for almost 8 years, now.
I'll take my chances that this crap won't be as bad as the steaming pile of wormiated shit I've had for 8 years now... i don't know what I will get... but, at least i know what I won't be getting.
Hail, Hail!!!
sorry, I probably just hit the wrong button.
Ha. well, hopefully the new chef will have a new sauce for this shit.
So... what does this all mean? That Obama is the furthest away from... whomever is the most Conservative Senator in 2007 is? Who is that?
I couldn't find that data... can you point it out to me?
Thanx.
Hail, Hail!!!
I wasn't saying Obama isn't left wing or liberal. The person I was replying to referred to him as Pseudo-Marxist. I was saying that I think that is BS. That while, yes he is left wing...I wouldn't say he's THAT far left.
Your link is saying he is one of the most liberal...thats of the men and women in the Senate...doesn't make him a marxist cause he's more left wing than many of them...esp considering how many of them are republicans (ergo are right wing).
I'll let you in on a little secret...
Answering a question with a question is the same thing as saying, "I don't have a clue" or "I'm better at argueing points that you present... than coming up with my own points".
...
I run across this trap alot and have figured it out.
Hail, Hail!!!
Here's the methodology they used: http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/methodology.htm
Here's an excerpt:
All of the voter ratings are here:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
It ranks both senators and congress critters, liberal and conservative.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that he's a Marxist. I was just responding to your post where you said he's not as far left as the poster thought. I was just pointing out that his voting record has shown him in 2007 to be the most liberal in the Senate, so he's as far left as could be found in the Senate, at least in 2007 based on the votes he actually participated in.
No worries Jeff...I knew you weren't. The person I originally replied to earlier in the thread had said it and it was him that my comments were directed at...sorry for the confusion
LMAO Ya I'm slowly coming to that realization myself...which is sad because it says to me that most of the people voting really don't know all of the issues. :(
On a happier note...Jimed14 put up the best post on this board today. He put up EXACTLY what I've been asking for. Check this out:
This was posted in a different forum I frequent, posted originally by the Assoc Press ... please feel free to correct anything that is wrong.
Obama-McCain: Where They Stand
From the Associated Press (AP)
ABORTION
McCain: Opposes abortion rights. Has voted for abortion restrictions permissible under Roe v. Wade, and now says he would seek to overturn that guarantee of abortion rights. Would not seek constitutional amendment to ban abortion.
Obama: Favors abortion rights.
AFGHANISTAN
McCain: Favors unspecified boost in U.S. forces.
Obama: Would add about 7,000 troops to the U.S. force of 36,000, bringing the reinforcements from Iraq. Has threatened unilateral attack on high-value terrorist targets in Pakistan as they become exposed, "if Pakistan cannot or will not act" against them.
CAMPAIGN FINANCE
McCain: The co-author of McCain-Feingold campaign finance law, he plans to run his general campaign with public money and within its spending limits. He has urged Obama to do the same. He applied for federal matching funds for primaries but later turned them down so he could spend more than the limits. Federal Election Commission belatedly approved his decision to bypass the primary funds, but rejected McCain's claim that he needed no such approval. McCain accepts campaign contributions from lobbyists.
Obama: The presidential campaign's fundraising champion has brought in $390 million. He plans to raise private money for his general election, despite his proposal last year to accept public financing and its spending limits if the Republican nominee does, too. Obama refuses to accept money from federal lobbyists and has instructed the Democratic National Committee to do the same for its joint victory fund, an account that would benefit the nominee. Obama does accept money from state lobbyists and from family members of federal lobbyists.
CUBA
McCain: Ease restrictions on Cuba once U.S. is "confident that the transition to a free and open democracy is being made."
Obama: Ease restrictions on family-related travel and on money Cuban-Americans want to send to their families in Cuba. Open to meeting new Cuban leader Raul Castro without preconditions. Ease trade embargo if Havana "begins opening Cuba to meaningful democratic change."
DEATH PENALTY
McCain: Has supported expansion of the federal death penalty and limits on appeals.
Obama: Supports death penalty for crimes for which the "community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage." As Illinois lawmaker, wrote bill mandating videotaping of interrogations and confessions in capital cases and sought other changes in system that had produced wrongful convictions.
EDUCATION
McCain: Favors parental choice of schools, including vouchers for private schools when approved by local officials, and right of parents to choose home schooling. More money for community college education.
Obama: An $18 billion plan that would encourage, but not mandate, universal pre-kindergarten. Teacher pay raises tied to, although not based solely on, test scores. An overhaul of President Bush's No Child Left Behind law to better measure student progress, make room for non-core subjects like music and art and be less punitive toward failing schools. A tax credit to pay up to $4,000 of college costs for students who perform 100 hours of community service a year. Obama would pay for his plan by ending corporate tax deducations for CEO pay and delaying NASA's moon and Mars missions.
ENERGY
McCain: Favors increased offshore drilling and federal money to help build 45 nuclear power reactors by 2030. Opposes drilling in Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Proposed suspending the 18-cent a gallon federal gasoline tax but idea got no traction. Global warming plan would increase energy costs.
Obama: Now would consider limited increase in offshore drilling. Opposes drilling in Arctic reserve. Proposes windfall-profits tax on largest oil companies to pay for energy rebate of up to $1,000. Opposed suspension of the gas tax. Open to tapping the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for short-term relief from high energy costs. Global warming plan would increase energy costs.
GAY MARRIAGE
McCain: Opposes constitutional amendment to ban it. Says same-sex couples should be allowed to enter into legal agreements for insurance and similar benefits, and states should decide about marriage. Supports the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition of same-sex marriages and gives states the right to refuse to recognize such marriages.
Obama: Opposes constitutional amendment to ban it. Supports civil unions, says states should decide about marriage. Switched positions in 2004 and now supports repeal of Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition of same-sex marriages and gives states the right to refuse to recognize such marriages.
GLOBAL WARMING
McCain: Broke with President Bush on global warming. Led Senate effort to cap greenhouse gas emissions; favors tougher fuel efficiency standards. Favors plan that would see greenhouse gas emissions cut by 60 percent by 2050.
Obama: Ten-year, $150 billion program to produce "climate friendly" energy supplies that he'd pay for with a carbon auction requiring businesses to bid competitively for the right to pollute and aimed at cutting greenhouse gas emissions 80 percent by 2050. Joined McCain in sponsoring earlier legislation that would set mandatory caps on greenhouse gas emissions. Supports tougher fuel-efficiency standards.
GUN CONTROL
McCain: Voted against ban on assault-type weapons but in favor of requiring background checks at gun shows. Voted to shield gun-makers and dealers from civil suits. "I believe the Second Amendment ought to be preserved _ which means no gun control."
Obama: Voted to leave gun-makers and dealers open to suit. Also, as Illinois state lawmaker, supported ban on all forms of semiautomatic weapons and tighter state restrictions generally on firearms.
HEALTH CARE
McCain: $2,500 refundable tax credit for individuals, $5,000 for families, to make health insurance more affordable. No mandate for universal coverage. In gaining the tax credit, workers could not deduct the portion of their workplace health insurance paid by their employers.
Obama: Mandatory coverage for children, no mandate for adults. Aim for universal coverage by requiring employers to share costs of insuring workers and by offering coverage similar to that in plan for federal employees. Says package would cost up to $65 billion a year after unspecified savings from making system more efficient. Raise taxes on wealthier families to pay the cost.
HOUSING
McCain: Open to helping homeowners facing foreclosure if they are "legitimate borrowers" and not speculators.
Obama: Tax credit covering 10 percent of annual mortgage-interest payments for "struggling homeowners," scoring system for consumers to compare mortgages, a fund for mortgage-fraud victims, new penalties for mortgage fraud, aid to state and local governments stung by housing crisis, in $20 billion plan geared to "responsible homeowners."
IMMIGRATION
McCain: Sponsored 2006 bill that would have allowed illegal immigrants to stay in the U.S., work and apply to become legal residents after learning English, paying fines and back taxes and clearing a background check. Now says he would secure the border first. Supports border fence.
Obama: Voted for 2006 bill offering legal status to illegal immigrants subject to conditions, including English proficiency and payment of back taxes and fines. Voted for border fence.
IRAN
McCain: Favors tougher sanctions, opposes direct high-level talks with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Obama: Initially said he would meet Ahmadinejad without preconditions, now says he's not sure "Ahmadinejad is the right person to meet with right now." But says direct diplomacy with Iranian leaders would give U.S. more credibility to press for tougher international sanctions. Says he would intensify diplomatic pressure on Tehran before Israel feels the need to take unilateral military action against Iranian nuclear facilities.
IRAQ
McCain: Opposes scheduling a troop withdrawal, saying latest strategy is succeeding. Supported decision to go to war, but was early critic of the manner in which administration prosecuted it. Was key backer of the troop increase. Willing to have permanent U.S. peacekeeping forces in Iraq.
Obama: Spoke against war at start, opposed troop increase. Voted against one major military spending bill in May 2007; otherwise voted in favor of money to support the war. Says his plan would complete withdrawal of combat troops in 16 months. Initially had said a timetable for completing withdrawal would be irresponsible without knowing what facts he'd face in office.
SOCIAL SECURITY
McCain: "Nothing's off the table" when it comes to saving Social Security.
Obama: Would raise payroll tax on wealthiest by applying it to portion of income over $250,000. Now, payroll tax is applied to income up to $102,000. Rules out raising the retirement age for benefits.
STEM CELL RESEARCH
McCain: Supports relaxing federal restrictions on financing of embryonic stem cell research.
Obama: Supports relaxing federal restrictions on financing of embryonic stem cell research.
TAXES
McCain: Pledged not to raise taxes, then equivocated, saying nothing can be ruled out in negotiating compromises to keep Social Security solvent. Twice opposed Bush's tax cuts, at first because he said they were tilted to the wealthiest and again because of the unknown costs of Iraq war. Now says those tax cuts, expiring in 2010, should be permanent. Proposes cutting corporate tax rate to 25 percent. Promises balance budget in first term, says that is unlikely in his first year.
Obama: Raise income taxes on wealthiest and their capital gains and dividends taxes. Raise corporate taxes. $80 billion in tax breaks mainly for poor workers and elderly, including tripling Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credit for larger families. Eliminate tax-filing requirement for older workers making under $50,000. A mortgage-interest credit could be used by lower-income homeowners who do not take the mortgage-interest deduction because they do not itemize their taxes.
TRADE
McCain: Free trade advocate.
Obama: Seek to reopen North American Free Trade Agreement to strengthen enforcement of labor and environmental standards. In 2004 Senate campaign, called for "enforcing existing trade agreements," not amending them.
Biden is #3
more than Boxer? More than Harry reid?
Kerry is pretty far down on the list. Funny that, considering he was #1 when he was running for president.
I'd laugh if it weren't so sad.
not a major conflict, not by a longshot. even michael moore condemned this one, jackass.
It's certainly one of two possibilities.
haha!
But Carter has made up for not being such a great prez. Bush? even if he tried, even if he spent the rest of his life trying, he would still not be able to make up for even a small % of what made him such a bad president.
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BTW, what's the deal with the Carter presidency. Was it the Iran hostage crisis? He did try many diplomatic initiatives, they didnt work, he did not just want to level Iran and didn't. or maybe the Voyager 1 message? lmao!
And guess what? Carter... was heralded as a 'Washington Outsider'. Sound familiar? People today who are hailing 'Washington Outsiders' are endorsing... Jimmy Carter!!!
...
And Carter was considered to be the 'Worst President, Ever'... til Bush... another 'Washington Outsider'.
Why? He followed the Nixon Watergate presidency... and an administration that had both a President and Vice President that did not recieve one vote (Nixon/agnew... Agnew resigns... Nixon appoints Ford... Nixon resigns... Ford becomes President... appoints Rockerfeller... neither Ford nor Rockerfeller got one vote from the American people). The double digit Inflation (a.k.a. Stagflation)... double digit unemployment... oil embargos... the Iran Hostage Situation... the disasterous Delta operation to free the hostages. America was considered weak.
...
Carter turned out to be one of the Best former Presidents, ever.
And like you... I don't think Bush will ever come close to achieving that.
Hail, Hail!!!
The democrats could end the war by not funding it, right?
i'm not so sure about that. but even so, a spending bill that does not include funding for the war would be vetoed by bush. and even a number of democrats are not comfortable with leaving american soldiers high and dry. it's not their fault their commander-in-chief is a fucking idiot. i think yanking funding would only hurt the soldiers, and not do anything to stop the war.
Hmm...my comment was in response to a statement about Peace. So a minor conflict still qualifies as peace?
And do you really think calling people names who disagree with you wins people to "your side"? And do you want the type of people who would respond to that on your side?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Or they could not have given the President authorization to wage war in the first place.
Here's a crazy idea--when you give the Commander in Chief the go ahead for war plan on actually winning the war before you do so! Wow, what a concept.
The War in Iraq is basically over. Major withdrawals will start early next year. Notice how neither candidate is talking about Iraq anymore? It's off the table.
6/30/98 Minneapolis, 10/8/00 East Troy (Brrrr!), 6/16/03 St. Paul, 6/27/06 St. Paul
the republicans held the majority in congress when the war was approved.
you make my generation look stupid.
Yeah and the only reason they gave authorization is because they though they could use the excuse "We trusted the president and he lied to us!"
lmao! yeah Iran is old news now, Iran and Pakistan are the hot topics for this election.
Great... our guys are over there... no more logistical support... no more bullets... no more spare parts replacements for HMMWVs... no more food... no more medical supplies.
Yeah... that'll work.
Hail, Hail!!!
Why do you assume it would be like that? They would have to appropriate enough funds specifically for the purpose of leaving instead of continuing. I'm pretty sure that's what Kucinich wanted. There's no way in hell you're going to end up with guys over there with no logistical support.
It was a lot easier to go in.. than to get out.
Remember, th U.S. is providing all air cover and close air support... all combat surgical hospitals and rapid response med-evac... all central command and control... all military logistical support.
If we remove our combat troops... we leave our support staff in the hands of the iraqi forces. Is that a good deal?
If we remove our support staff... what happens to our combat troops.
That is what an exit strategy is all about. And it's not easy if there are fuckers still running around and blowing up shit. And it would be easier to fund a sufficient amount if there is a goddamn TIMETABLE to draw down the number of troops and leave enough for a rear guard to see that it goes through.
Remember... we have tanks and armoured vehicles we have to evacuate, too. As well as trucks, HMMWVs, trailers, mobile command centers, communication vehicles, medical equipment and a ton of stuff. Either we leave it all there... or we take it with us.
Until we figure this shit out... we are left with no alternative but to fund the troops that are there. Or write them off as a loss... all as a cost of doing business.
...
Finally... let me add this because I haven't said this for a while... Fuck that asshole Bush for being a mother fucking asshole.
Hail, Hail!!!
toss in POW stresses, and the stresses of running a country, and 78 might be pushing it.
can anyone hello President Palin?
Hockey mom bimbo nut to the rescue....
oh yeah!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I'm most likely voting McCain because of his experience, his willingness to spend political capital for his beliefs, and his lifelong record of service to his country.
National security and stem cell research are probably my two litmus tests, though I try not to be a single issue voter.
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
(the following is not directed at you Roland)
Its too bad that the republicans (most of u anyways) are more intent on making your vote a "vote against Obama" as opposed to a vote FOR McCain and his bitch. I've seen some of you acknowledge you have shortcomings with McCain and don't entirely trust him but you're willing to take you chances with his temper and the possibility of Palin becoming president. Makes me wonder what the hell you are smoking!!
Hmmm this is funny considering George W had even LESS experience when he took office but the Republican voters didn't seem to have a problem with that when it was THEIR OWN candidate!!!!! Double standard anyone???
You know... you could substitute the name 'Kerry' for 'McCain'... and it's a perfect fit... right?
Hail, Hail!!!
I think every election cycle is different, the challenges and opportunities different, the candidates different. The issues jockeying in importance.
But sure, I'd vote Biden over Obama or Kerry over Edwards. I think it was a great call to make Biden the Veep, though I can think of a few better ones...
There are many accomplishments in Obama's career that I'd be happy to either point you towards or explain. Whichever one you'd like is your call. Most of his most significant achievements have been with ethics reform, although he is on the right side of national homeland protection; he realized that the inadequate protection of our ports are our weak point, while McCain did not; I found this out at ontheissues.org if you're curous).
Basically, there's no doubt that Obama's list of accomplishments in the U.S. Senate is short when compared to McCain's record. However, I feel that McCain's record, when checked, is just plain wrong on the majority of the issues. I appreciate his service and am awed by his devotion to his fellow prisoners during his time as a POW in Vietnam, but that sole experience is not adequate reason to elect someone as leader of our country, particularly when he has proven to be wrong on many of the most important issues guiding our days. Although the talk of him being a "clone" of George W. Bush is a bit inflated, the fact remains that the majority of his policy positions seem somewhat or remarkably similar to this current administration.